I think there will be plenty of Iverson-seekers out there. The question is whether Philly will get anywhere even remotely near equal value back. Getting truly equal value is a pipe dream, especially now that everyone knows Philly is desperate. At least when King was shopping Iverson over the summer, he had the ability to say "no" (and did say no).

Ainge would love to pick up Iverson, and so would the Wolves. Actually, Minnesota is probably the best destination for the sport as a whole -- and I say that at the personal cost of the Lakers then losing out on the chance of getting Garnett (although I think Chicago would be a much more likely destination if Garnett forced a trade). Garnett is probably the one superstar that Iverson's game could actually mesh with. From Philly's viewpoint, getting Foye, Ricky Davis and Mike James(?) would be a pretty sad result, but at least they'd be getting a shot at Greg Oden in the 2007 lottery (actually, they'd have that shot no matter what they do at this point). Minnesota can't throw in their first round draft pick, because it's already pledged to the Clippers, as part of the disastrous Sam Cassell trade. Then Philly would have to wait another year after this until Webber's obscene contract expires, at which point they could truly start from scratch. Sad.

Larry, I definitely do not agree with you that there will be plenty of takers for AI; not with a $60M contract in play. And, yeah, Ainge might want AI, but I see a personality disconnect between AI and Pierce and/or Sczerbiak (SP?, wish that dude would change his last name to Johnson or Smith or something easy to spell). Plus, Ainge might want him, but what's he got to give in return? In particular, what pieces does Boston have now that they didn't have 3 months ago when they went hard after AI? Boston has one premiere player (Pierce), one second-option go to player (Sczerbiak). and a bunch of mediocre supporting players, most of whom are young and inexperienced. So, I ask you, how's Boston gonna work a trade for AI; what pieces would they offer Philly for AI? Of course, the Twolves have a lot of young talent to offer Philly, talent far superior to anyhting the Celtics could muster, and KG actually likes AI, so that probably would be the best fit for him at this point, but AI in Minnesota is still risky. KG is poplar with the fans and his teammates; AI is not. KG is a team player and a real good guy; AI is a me-first NBA ball hog who shuns the team concept, doesn't want to practice, doesn't want to attend team functions, and, has a track record of run-ins with his teammates, coaches, and the law. If I owned the TWolves, I'd pass on AI, especially if it meant trading away Foye, who I think will be a good player for the Twolves in the future.

Well, it will be interesting to see. Of course, most of it will just be rumor and gossip, since we'll never know for sure which and how many teams were unsuccessful bidders for Iverson.

Also, Thomas, I think you're making two different points: (i) what team would want AI and (ii) what team has decent enough assets to trade for him. In answer to "what pieces does Boston have now that they didn't have e months ago," the answer of course is none. But the difference is that Philly's back is up against the wall now, and desperate sellers always have to take less. I agree with you that Sczerbiak (I'll use your spelling so I don't have to look it up!) and AI are a bad fit; last time around, the Celtics were going to trade Wally as part of the deal.

What the Sixers have to look forward to in the post-Iverson era...

Here's an article by Mike Kahn of FoxSports.com, written 12/09/06. He's suggesting that Denver is the best place for AI.

"The thing is, there is a team that makes the most sense of all, and that's where the Nuggets come in. Carmelo Anthony is already a huge fan of Iverson's from their time together at the 2004 Olympics. 'Melo, who's developed to the point where he's leading the NBA in scoring, just needs a superstar partner to take this team into serious contention. A combination of Andre Miller, Joe Smith, J.R. Smith and a No. 1 pick works very well for both teams. There is no better sports town out West than Denver, with its young and furious crowd.

Add in the intensity of coach George Karl, whose successful handling of Anthony and Gary Payton far overshadows the issues he's had with Kenyon Martin, and they move right into contention with the Spurs, Mavs and Suns to be the West's elite team.

In other words, the Nuggets are the best fit for A.I., leaving us with the question of whether or not owner Stan Kroenke is willing to cough up $60 million for The Answer."

It's a very interesting article, but AI and George Karl? How's that gonna work? Plus, Kahn suggestng that Karl would be a good mentor for AI because he worked with Anthony and Payton is not a fair compariosn. Neither has a history of jacking up 40 shots a game, as AI sometimes does.

Larry: I know Philly's back is against the wall, but they did it to themselves by hiring an inexperienced coach and foolishly shopping their superstar player all summer without his input. I don't think AI is a good fit for Philly; he makes and keeps them one-dimensional, but the way King handled AI's trade situation lat summer was undignified and in your face. So, they deserve some of the blame for the situation in which they now find themselves.

Joe: Are you sure that poor attendance at Sixer games is not due to your team losing eight straight games? I worked in Philly one summer, so I know how popular AI is, but if the Sixers were winning, I think attendance would improve.

I love Tony Kornheiser's idea I first heard on PTI-AI in Scarmento with Ron Artest! What a blast that would be!

It isn't just Kornheiser's idea -- there are some serious rumors about Sac trading Bibby (and spare parts) for Iverson. I think it's too much of a gamble even for the Maloofs, but it's fun to imagine.

Thomas: I don't see AI meshing well with George Karl either. Look at how Karl has done with K-Mart, a total disaster. And he had problems dealing with his three "stars" in Milwaukee too.

I still think Minnesota is the best place for Iverson, but obviously the Sixers aren't worrying about where Iverson will fit well, just what the other team is offering in exchange. And I agree that King has screwed up the team. The Webber trade is now a disaster (although lots of people applauded it at the time). Signing Dalembert to a huge contract was another blunder, and that one was obvious even when he did it.

Sure, if the team was a winner more people would show up. But there have been times when they were winning and still didn't draw huge crowds.

No one expected them to win this year, so winning doesn't really factor into it now. Any attendance drop from the early-season games to now is strictly because of Iverson being gone.

According to Ben Maller of FoxSports.com (12/13/06), the Sacramento offer for AI would include PG, Mike Bibby AND forward, Kenny Thomas (who can't stand AI). Can't believe there are no picks involved though. Plus, wouldn't AI be forced to play starting PG in Sacramento rather than the natural SG position he was born to play? AI distributing the ball and setting up his teammates? Not likely. But, I think he would get along with Artest; they share a similar history of being abandoned by their respective owners, benched, shopped around the league while sitting home, and getting shipped out of town. I wouldn't do this deal, but that's just me. Mike Bibby is a true PG and despite his recent scoring trouble, Bibby is a natural PG and team player. Would Bibby and Thomas make the Sixers a better team? I think so. Would AI make Sacramento a better team? I don't think so. Also, both teams are over the salary cap which complicates the deal, and, Philly does not want to take back any expensive and/or extended player contracts.

Regarding the AI to Charlotte rumor for Brevin Knight/Melvin Ely/Othello Harrington/Primoz Brezec, AI reportedly killed that deal; said he didn't want to play in Charlotte. Thanks God. That would be a public relations nightmare waiting to happen. Can you imagine the moody and outspoken AI in Charlotte? What a culture clash that would be! AI is way too urban for a lazy southern town like Charlotte; he'd never be welcomed or adopted in Charlotte. AI in a BCat uniform would mean instant offense, to go along with Okafor, Wallace, and AMMO, but at the expense of team defense, since neither AMMO or AI is a lock down perimeter defender.

The best fit for AI is Indiana, with the Sixers getting Steven Jackson. Kidd is a very intelligent and natural-born PG. He runs that offense and is fully capable of seeing to it that AI gets the ball when it best fits the team's interests. Plus, AI wouldn't be counted on to score so much; Jermaine O'Neal and Harrington do this very well. The problem here is that the Sixers don't get much in return; unless there are draft picks invlolved. Steven Jackson won't help the Sixers improve much. Again, since both team are over the cap, this deal faces the same problem as the Sacramento/Philly deal.

Another good fit is the LA Clippers. They are very anxious to move Corey Maggette. No surprise there. But Cassell name is also mentioned in this trade, according to Ben Mmaller. Trading Cassell would hurt the Clippers becase AI would be forced to swing between SG and PG, and, again I state, AI at Point is not a good thing. But with Brand and company around him, AI's defensive skills woudn't get exposed as much.

A lot of people are also claiming that the Warriors are offering Baron Davis for AI. Bad deal for both. Nellie and AI is another Larry Brown-AI waiting to happen. And, Baron Davis in a Sixer uniform is like replacing Superman with a toy replica. Baron and AI play the same game; but AI does it better.

Denver is also rumored to be offering JR Smith, and Nene for AI. That dog won't hunt. Nene just signed a huge contract and Phily isn't about to take on a huge and extended player contract in return for AI.

I agree with all of you. The ideal team, even if not the best fit in terms of value to the Sixers, is the TWolves, who are offering Ricky Davis for AI. They really don't have a good SG or PG right now, but KG is playing his ass off these days, so the combination of KG and AI would cause all kinds of trouble for opposing teams. I just don't know how this trade could get realized without the involvement of a third team since the TWolves don't have either the cap space or the right pieces to work this trade.

Supposedly, Iverson has "vetoed" trades to Golden State and Sacto, as well as Charlotte. (He doesn't have actual veto power, but his unhappiness understandably would dissuade a team from taking him.) The GS rumor I read had them throwing in Biedrens, who I think is going to be a major player, so it actually made some sense for the Sixers.

As for the Clippers -- Philly wants Shaun Livingston, not Cassell, and that's supposed to be a deal breaker.

Taking Jackson from Indy would be absurd for the Sixers. Can't see that one.

I think Denver would have to give up Andre Miller (I agree -- no one would want Nene, with his huge contract and his suspect knee), as well as JR, and that still isn't much. Denver's 1st round pick isn't going to be very high.

The Wolves would get to unload some bad contracts like Troy Hudson and Jaric, but why would the Sixers want those?

The Clippers FO would have to be brain dead to deal Shaun Livingston; he just blosomed and is set to become an integral piece of that franchise for years to come. Bad trade! The same could be said for Andre Miller in Denver. Why would Denver part with a young superstar in the making for a declining superstar whose health is suspect? If I owned the Nuggets, I would't even consider trading Miller. However, I agree with you that both Livingston and Miller would help the Sixers in multiple areas, if these acquisitions don't expose them to cap problems. I didn't research their contract status.

The rumors I just heard on ESPN is AI to Miami. With White Chocolate hurt and Peyton aging before our eyes, AI could be just what the doctor ordered. But I don't know if AI would be willing to accept his role as the third option behind DWade and Shaq. AI has always been the go to guy and he won't be that in Miami, unless Dwade decides to make it so. In crunch time, it is Dwade who gets the ball; its DWade who drives the lane and either takes the shot or sets up his teammate for the open shot. If AI can accept that the Heat is Dwade's team, accept that his shots must go through Dwade and/or Shaq, the Heat will quickly become the favorite to repeat as NBA champs. That roster would be awesome with AI in it.

I know that AI likes Pat Riley and Shaq. Plus, Pat said today that he is very intrested in bringing AI to Miami. Problem is, what will Miami offer the Sixers? That's the deal breaker; we have to wait and see which players Miami is prepared to offer Philly before we can judge the value in this trade. I'm almost certain that a third team would have get involved to facilitate this deal.

I read today that the Lakers are interested in AI. For the life of me, I don't understand why Phil would be interested in putting AI in a complicated and structured offense like the Triangle. That's not going to work. Bad trade idea. Bad fit for all concerned.

Shaun Livingston is one of those "superstars in the making" who is taking a very very long time to make. He's showing progress, but in baby steps. I don't know -- it would be interesting to see the Clippers with AI. They could have a legitimate shot at a title, assuming Brand isn't worn out from his summer with the U.S. Team (which looks like it might be the case, even though he's had some big games lately). It would be a gamble, since if the Clippers didn't win it all with AI, no question they may come to regret it 3 years down the line. Also, I think AI would put them in the luxury tax zone, and it's hard to see Sterling agreeing to pay that. Livingston is still being paid under his first contract, so he doesn't make much. Even throwing in Maggette (who would be completely expendable with Iverson aboard) doesn't come within 25% of matching salaries, so I'm not sure who else the Clippers would have to give up to make it work.

As for Miami -- yeah, the only thing substantial they'd have to offer is Haslem. No way Philly is going to take him and spare parts from Miami.

Despite reports, I don't think the Lakers really are interested. Phil Jackson likes to philosophize with the media, so he's made comments about how Iverson could play well together with Kobe (now THAT would be the ultimate test!). And Jerry Buss likes superstars, but still I can't see it. Plus, Odom is pretty seriously injured now, and I don't think Philly would want to take back a player who's health status is somewhat up in the air.

Finally, if I'm Denver, I trade Andre Miller (particularly if I can unload Nene's contract and bad knee) for Iverson in a heartbeat. Miller is solid, but that's all he is and all he ever is going to be. Unlike Livington, he's been around for a while.

The Charlotte / AI incident is incorrect. The Bobcats' GM recently said, the ESPN reports are untrue. What actually took place was Bobcats' GM contacting 6er GM, Billy King to offer themselves and their enormous capspace for use in a 3-way trade - if only it benefitted Charlotte. The B'cats never could trade for AI alone. They'd have to trade half their team. Their highest paid only makes 5.5m compared to AI's 17.3m.

The Sac Kings deal is also heresay. Bibby wouldn't be that favorable to us in a trade as his base salary of 15m is too much. We're looking for young talent and expiring contracts that would enable us to sign free agents next yr. Kenny Thomas and his 4+yrs would not be included either. I think the 6ers are waiting for better deals to develop and are also waiting for Dec. 15th when all TR's will be lifted.

The Golden State package is the best so far in terms of straight up talent. That deal has the Warriors sending B.Davis, A.Biedrins, and a 3rd player (poss. Zarco Cabarkapa) to Philly for AI and C, Steven Hunter. And according to Foxsports, AI should be in a new uni by Mon morning.

Indiana doesn't have the right pieces in a trade to get AI. They'd have to involve a 3rd team. And I can assure you the centerpiece WON'T be Stephen Jackson.

The 6ers want Shaun Livingston includ in any trade with the Clips, and that is said to be the deal breaker.

"Denver is also rumored to be offering JR Smith, and Nene for AI. That dog won't hunt. Nene just signed a huge contract and Phily isn't about to take on a huge and extended player contract in return for AI." Very true, but it would be hard to turn down JR Smith. That's one to think about.

I would also love to see AI play alongside KG, but it's going to take more than Ricky Davis as their contracts don't meet the NBA's 15% salary requirement for player trades.

Here's the latest AI trade deal as reported by David Aldridge in today's Philadelphia Inquirer:

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/16233953.htm

Basically, the proposed three way deal shakes out like this:

To Philly: Joe Smith ($6.8M), Jamaal Magliore ($8.3M); both expiring contracts
From Philly: Allen Iverson ($18M)

To Denver: Allen Iverson ($18M)
From Denver: Nene ($10M/yr actual, but as SFdriftking76 pointed out, because of Base Year Compensation, his trade value is ($6.4M); Joe Smith ($6.8M)

To Portland: Nene ($6.4M)
From Portland: Jamaal Magliorre ($8.3M)

This trade has legs, but has pieces missing; the numbers don't add up to fit the CBA trade guidelines. Either Denver or Portland will need to add pieces somehow and Philly will need to take on more salary; e.g., another player.

The proposed trade looks like a good deal for Denver; they free up cap space and get AI. For this year, anyway. Isn't Melo's contract up next season? AI's 2007 salary could complicate Denver's ability to lock up Melo next year.

The deal also looks good for Philly; they get rid of the disgruntled AI in exchange for expiring contracts they can write off next year. Weird thing though; no mention of #1 pics. I thought Philly was demanding pics in any trade for AI.

I'm not so sure this is a good trade for Portland though. Yeah, they get rid of Magliorre, who is also disgruntled; he's publicly voiced his displeasure about playing time (not exactly news or out of charcacter for Jamaal), and replacing him with Nene, who, in my mind anyway, is a good player but is enigmatic and certainly less talented offensively than Magliorre. Is Portland that eager to get rid of Magliorre?


SFdriftking76: About JR Smith. Larry's right. His salary isn't big enough to make much of a dent in a trade. I'm guessing that's why the Sixers passed on him and/or Denver didn't include him. Anyway, and this is documented in my previous posts, I don't like JR Smith. When he played for the Hornets, he was a whiny, spoiled brat who refused to play defense and wouldn't listen to his coaches. All he wanted to do was shoot the rock. So, even if he would add instant offense to the Sixer lineup, his attitude would eventually disrupt what little team chemistry remains in Philadelphia. And Magliore to Philly is likely to do the same. He's not exactly a good will ambassador either. But Joe Smith has a rep as a good team player; so would be a good mentor for Philly's young guys.

Look on the bright side. If this trade rumor becomes reality, you get to keep Bibby because Sacramento isn't involved in the AI sweepstakes any more. I like Bibby. Good player. Good guy.

Larry: Want to hear something funny? Ande Miller was reportedly offered to Philly as part of a deal for AI. Philly FO wanted no part of it; responding: "We already have a big man with bad knees". LOL! But I like both Nene and Andre Miller (you're less enamoured with these two, I know), probably more for their individualism than basketball talent. I'll bet Denver fans will miss Nene too. He sure is fun to watch. So is Andre Mller. Good character players with unique and colorful personalities makes pro basketball fun to watch. Not everyone needs to be this, though. DWade, Steve Nash, and LeBron are boring as hell off-court, but infinitely watchable and entertaining on the hard wood.

Thomas -- Carmelo signed a 5 year contract extension. He was up at the same time as LeBron and Wade, so it got a little lost in all that hoopla. That deal would certainly make Denver an exciting team. And I think it could work great in the short run, since everyone will be on their best behavior. But Denver may need to think about replacing George Karl in the near future, since he's sure to start butting hard heads with Iverson at some point.

For Philly that deal would be an acknowledgement that they couldn't get any players they really wanted, and they just need to start completely from scratch. The only reason they'd pick up Magloire (his best days are behind him, even though he's not even 30 yet -- how sad is that?) is for a salary dump, since his contract expires this year. A risky move in terms of fan support, but better than Isiah's strategy for sure.

I'd do that deal if I'm Portland. Nene is a gamble because of his knee, but if ever comes back 100% he's got a lot of potential. Still, the front court gets kind of crowded with him, Randolph and Aldridge. One of them (Aldridge?) will have to learn to play center, and one of them is going to have to do some time at small forward (good luck). If Nene is sound, they would probably start shopping Randolph, who has been playing amazingly well so far this season.

I like the comment about replacing Webber's knee with Nene's.

Finally, DON"T put Steve Nash in that same boring-off-the-court category as those other guys! He's one of the most articulate and socially aware players in the NBA. He's been active all over the place in charity events, and he had the cajones to speak out against the Iraq war before it was cool to do so (it was always cool in my book, but I don't want to hijack this into a political thread).

EDITED to add: I just read in a blurb from the Denver Post that Portland isn't interested in Nene, so (assuming that's true) score one for Thomas. Apparently Denver is now looking for other teams with overpaid players with expiring contracts (e.g., Croshere) to get involved.

Actually these numbers may work out based on the Traded Player Exception rule. In essence one team can trade up to 125% of the players salaries. So for example (Joe Smith 6.8M + Jamaal Magliore 8.3M = 15.1M)
AI at 18M is within 125% of this total. See the explanation below.

Maybe it's just me but I would be willing to just take expiring contracts in trade for AI and then just tank the season with a good shot at landing Greg Oden. This year's draft is suppose to be good. I think the 76ers should rebuild over the next couple of years. They will lose another salary albtraross of 20M from Chris Webber's expiring contract in 2007-08.

Larry, thanks for correcting my post regarding Melo's contract staus. If I find myself in Lala land again (too bad USC didn't do its part to keep LSU in the Rose Bowl or I'd be in LA this January), I'll pay you back. We can get drunk, drive up to San Fran, catch a Warriors game, get that left-right-crook-in-the-neck thing going while points pile up on both ends of the court, and laugh out loud when the Warrior big men do that girly wave thing as their man dives past them and takes it to the hole. I love that look Dunleavey Jr. gets when his man dunks the ball and it bounces off his grill. That dude is kicks.

Regarding the dismantling of the three team trade involving Philly, Denver, and Portland: I read that too. Portland backed out of the deal because they didn't want any part of Nene; probably because of his huge salary, and, because, he, too, has knee problems. According to the realgm.com basketball message boards, Portland started strong arming the Sixers, demanding Korver be included in the deal. The Sixers refused; not wanting to part with Korver. Denver also balked, for obvious reasons. They'd get AI, something they badly wanted, but would get stuck with Nene's salary still on the books, and, of course, his bad knees still on the floor. So, the deal stalled at that point. Plus, I expect Korver's inclusion in the deal would have required a different strategy to satisfy CBA restrictions. Any way, Philly and Denver are now looking for a third trading partner with an expiring contract (as you suggested in your last post).

One of the respected realgm posters, Sixerfan1976, who appears to have inside connections, reported a three way deal involving Chicago, Denver, and Philly, whereby Philly sends AI to Denver in exchange for Joe Smith (Denver), PJ Brown (Chicago), and Chris Duhon (Chicago); Denver receives AI in exchange for Reggie Evans, Najera, Boykins, JR Smith, and two #1's; and Chicago receives Reggie Evans, Najera, Boykins, and Sixers' 2nd rd pick in exchange for PJ Brown and Chris Duhon. But Chicago reportedly balked on this deal at the last minute; they wanted more than a 2nd rd pic. Small wonder. As in the previous three way deal, Philly and Denver gte what they want from it, but not the third party conduit; Chicago definitely gets hosed in this deal.

So the AI saga continues.

P.S. I didn't mean to diss Steve. I like him. He's a little dynamo on the court; heady, the heart of a lion, balls of steel, a great humanitarian, and a good ambassador for basketball. I still think he'd be more fun after a few beers tho. Dude is boring off-court.

Almost two years to the day since he was traded, it is quite clear Vince Carter is still hated in these parts. Carter was booed mercilessly by a raucous sell-out crowd at the ACC last night as the Bosh-less Raptors knocked off the Nets, winning their second in a row without their best player Bosh, to pull back to within a half game of the division lead.

It was one of the noisiest crowds of the year that booed loudly everytime Carter touched the ball and hooted derisively anytime he missed a shot or free throw. And it seemed to have an effect on Carter as he was 0 for 6 on 3 point attempts. 4 of 17 from the field and only 50% - 4 of 8 from the free throw line. By far the loudest chants of the night were not the usual 'Let's Go Raptors', but instead chants of 'Carter Sucks'.

The bad news for the Raptors is that they are now saying Bosh is out indefinitely and will not return until the swelling and pain in his knee subsides. So the Raps will continue to need hustling play from everybody. Five players in double figures last night! Players like Joey Graham, Anthony Parker and T.J. Ford starred last night after Bargagni's heroics on Wednesday. And actually even though Bargnani only scored 6 points last night, it was a big dunk by him that brought the crowd back into the game and seemed to turn the momentum back the Raptors way just as it looked like the Nets - who trailed most of the way - seemed poised to take control of the game.

Next up, one more home game agaisnt the Warriors on Sunday before yet another tough road trip this time with 4 games in the West at Phoenix, LA against the Clippers, Portland and Seattle. They already did a 5 game western swing earlier, so that will be it in terms of Western road swings for the season!

If the Raps can hang close until Christmas they will be in decent shape to make a move up the standings with lots of home games in the New Year and they look strong at home so far with a 6-3 record. By December 23 the Raps will have played 18 games on the road - including 9 in the tougher West, and just 10 games at home.

Thomas: Sorry about LSU. Yeah, that would have been fun, but wouldn't you rather take in a Lakers game and watch Kobe jack up 39 shots? (By the way, both he and Yao were great last night, but Kobe was a bit greater.)

That Chicago deal you read about doesn't make much sense to me either. Why would they want to pick up Evans and Najera? Those guys provide rebounding and defense but no offense -- that's the last thing Chicago should be shopping for. But it looks like Denver is the frontrunner -- they just need to find a 3rd team to accommodate them other than Chicago. (Supposedly Chicago offered to "help" Denver if the Nuggets would deliver Camby to their doorstep. Denver understandably said no way.)

Party pooper. I can watch Kobe jack up 40 shots any time. Saw this all last year. Koby's your guy; not mine. I respect his game, but I don't think he's any more a team player than Iverson is.

Larry, did you see the Fight between Denver and the Knicks tonight? Man! I have no life so I get to watch all this stuff. Check it out on Youtube:

NUGGET-KNICKS FIGHT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHI2HYE2J0A

JR Smith was on a breakaway and Collins horse-collared him with a flagrant foul. JR and Mardy started wolfing at each other, but did not fight. Then for some reason, tiny little Nate Robinson got involved and started pushing and beefin JR. Nate then drove Andre Miller into the stands and they started fighting. Then Melo pushed Frye down. Everybody calmed down a bit...until Melo decided to punch Collins in the face, and that started round two. Jeffries, Collins, and Robinson went after Melo, who ran back to center court after he punched Collins. I like a good fght as much as the next fellow, but this one was pathetic. What JR Smith and Melo did tonight will hurt the Nugetts more in the long run than any street cred they gained by thugging in out on the hardwood. Stern is as image conscious as any NBA commissioner I've seen and he will probably hand down 10-15 games suspensions to JR, Miller, and Melo; all threw multiple punches. Of course Robinson, Lee, Jeffries, and Collins will also get suspended. I don't get any of this. Why would Collins commit a flagrant foul in a game the Knicks had no chance of winning? There was about one minute left in the game and the Knicks were down 20 pts.

Do you think the fight will have an effect on the Philly/Denver AI trade? Can a team include a suspended player in a trade? All five Knick players and all five Denver players were ejected.



Runner, I've spent years trying to understand the NBA's Collective Bargaining Agreement; especially as it relates to trades. I worked up the numbers though, and you're right; the three way deal between Portland, Denver, and Philly, as proposed, would satisfy CBA Guidelines. Thanks for fixing my post, buddy. One thing to remember though: even if a trade satisfies the CBA guidelines, no team is likely to accept a deal that leaves them compromised; e.g., with pieces and/or acquisitions they consider unequal value. That's why I wondered why Philly would agree to a deal that returns less value than they gave. Now I know the answer. They were set to receive a couple #1 pics. And I certainly don't blame Portland for balking at the proposed deal; they'd have received less value than either Philly or Denver.

I think there's a good chance that Philly could get Greg Oden too, but the Knicks will probably have more balls in the hopper. Plus, Atlanta and the Bcats aren't exactly setting the world on fire right now either.



I wasn't a Vince Carter fan before, But I am now. Not only did he revive his career in Indiana, but also seems to be a much better person now than when he played for the Raptors. He wasn't happy there and needed to be moved. As I posted before, Toronto is a difficult transition for many young urban NBA players. The culture is very different than what they are used to. I know it shouldn't matter; that they should do the job they were brought there to do, but that only happens in an ideal world.

It's a shame about Bosh. Even though reports are that Garbajosa and Bargnani are playing well right now, I think the Raptors' dirth of big, physical rebounders will hurt them against the NBA's physical and/or rebounding teams: Clippers, Suns, Lakers, and Jazz (West) and the Magic, Heat, Pistons, and Bulls in the East (if all players are healthy). That has to concern Raptor fans.

Hey Thomas:
Rap fans only harrass returning stars who quit on us. And Carter quit on us his last year and a half on many nights. We were sick of his sulking around the court on so many nights in his last season or so with the Raps. The constant whining, the repeated 'Oh I'm hurt bad' acts every time he got knocked down to the floor. His Mom being in town whining to the media all the time did not help either.

In fact during the game the other night one of the Raptor TV announcers mentioned it looked like Carter was just not interested at times, to which the other replied 'Well Rap fans have certainly seen that act before.' Similarly one of the columnist the next day wrote that Carter had said that he could care less about the crowd, when asked if the crowd bothered him. The writer added that Raptor fans would have no trouble believing the Carter 'did not care about something' insinuating we saw just how much he did not care late in his career here.

As for some players with a US urban background having trouble adjusting to a more international city like multicultural Toronto, that may be true for some players, although clearly some players seem to thrive up here and do lots of great work in the community. Carter seemed to fit in well at first. Bosh seems to fit in as well.

The flip side of that story is that the international feel of Toronto has a big appeal for international players. And I think Raptor management recognizes that. They've already added a number of European players to the Roster and added others who have international playing experience like Anthony Parker. It is no accident that the Raps have hired the man generally considered to be the most knowledgeable about European ball players - Maurizio Gherardini - as their assistant GM. Here is an interesting article on his background that appeared in the Star a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...st1091558619815

A two word answer: "Isiah Thomas." To make that a one sentence answer, it would be "Isiah is a punk." He basically yelled out to Anthony to stay out of the paint (translation: I've ordered a hard foul on you if you go anywhere near the basket). There's no question at all that Collins delivered that throat tackle to please Thomas. So Isiah thought that George Karl was embarrassing the Knicks. Maybe he was pissed off that Karl thought he needed any help. Remember Isiah saying a couple of weeks ago, that one of his players should have broken Bruce Bowen's ankle (because Bowen allegedly steps under players when their shooting jumpers)?

I've always hated Thomas, even in his playing days. He was unquestionably great on the court, but he just is the epitome of punk.

Another good news bad news game for the Raps. The good news - another win without Bosh, 120-115 over the Warriors. Other good news the continued good play of draft pick # 1 Bargnani. His first double double, 18 points and 10 rebounds.

The bad news - in a rather innocent looking play in the last minute 2nd year guard Jose Caldeone went to the floor, reached for his back as he was in obvious pain and had tears streaming down his face. After a lengthy delay they strapped him to a board and removed him from the court on a stretcher. It was a very subdued ACC as the game ended inspite of the win. Hopefully it is not as serious as it looked because he has been so strong coming off the bench this year and playing with so much more confidence than last year. I'm sure being on Spain's world championship team helped in that regard this summer. Plus - he is so darn cute! http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/photo?slug=get...&prov=getty

Yeah, I saw what happened to Calderon. Was it a neck injury or back injury? Bosh? Now Calderon? Too bad. I hope he's not seriously injured.

I know Toronto is an international city. I also know Gerrardi (sp?), and know about his connections to European basketball. I don't have a problem with that. It's good for the game; it sells the game abroad. I guess I was trying to say that its easier for young urban basketball players to make the transition to the NBA in the states.

For me, when I think Canada, I think Hockey and Gretzsky; Edmonton, etc; not basbeall and basketball. I know the Bluejays are for real now (they played well last season), but there was a time when they were considered a financially struggling MLB stepchild. The Raptors are a legitimate NBA team, but I doubt a majority of NBA players would choose to play in Toronto. It's very cold there, and, the culture is so different. Mourning screwed you, no doubt he was wrong to do that, but you know as well as I do that Zo would never fit in Toronto. Same thing for VC. So, I guess you're right. For the sake of their fans, the Raptors front office should seek out players an coaches refelctive of its culture and values. I don't have a problem with that. Diversity is always a good thing.



There's something wrong with Isiah. Remember when he abandoned Magic when he announcd his HIV status? Isiah has no clue what it means to be a friend, to have someone's back. Then he picked a public fight with Greg Anthony, a gentleman by any standard, and George karl, who had nothing to do with Larry Brown's predicament. Remember how Larry Bird had to save his ass for racially insensitive comments a few years back (or was it Magic?)? That whole thing with Bowen was equally ridiculous. Coaches should never pick fights with players. Then, telling an opposing NBA player that there will be consequences if he drives the lane is inexcusable; nothing but street ball, pure and simple. Not only that, but actually instruct his players (Collins and Robinson) to take that player out if he does? In my opinion, that ought to be grounds for suspension from the league. Isiah needs to relinquish his coaching duties. He's unfit. If you don't want your players embarressed at home, teach them to play sound defense. If he did that, they wouldn't have to worry about being embarressed, or, worry about opponents running up the score. That's how you prevent embarressment; it's that simple. Phil Jackson and the Lakers devised an effective plan to keep Tony Parker and the Spurs out of the lane a couple years ago in the playoffs, and they didn't have to resort to flagrant fouls to get it done.

I've always felt kinda sorry for the Knicks because of all the hardship they've exprienced these last couple years. I used to love the Knicks back when Ewing and Starks played. So it hurts to see how much they are struggling right now. I do have some real sympathy for Robinson, Collins, and Jeffries. They're young, impressionable kids who were simply trying to carry out Isiah's instructions. Plus, they are practically rookies trying to cope with the spotlight of the Big Apple. Trouble is, Isiah is not helping them with that transition; all he's done so far is exacerbate the Knicks problems, both on and off the court. Isiah should be a role model, a mentor; instead he's actually instructing his young players to disrespect the game of basketball, its fans, and sports in general. What the hell has gotten into Isiah? I always knew he had no business sense, but I never though he was a bad person....until now.

George Karl apologized for the actions of his players but Isiah didn't. Until he changes his basketball philosophy to reflect how the game should be played, I am officially no longer a Zeke fan. I know Isiah probably acts this way because of the time he spent as a Detroit Piston "bad boy". But I can't ever recall Isiah, Lambeer, Rodman, Salley, and Mahorn getting involved in a brawl like the one we saw in the Garden the other night. Pitiful. It hurts the game. And if Isiah can't see that, he should leave the game to those who do.

Thomas: A very eloquent condemnation of the other Thomas, and one with which I agree completely. I think it's also notable that Bird, Jordan and other superstars always hated Thomas, even during their playing days. The racial remarks you remember were when Dennis Rodman made the idiotic statement that if Bird weren't white, he would be viewed as just another good player. The media immediately turned to Thomas, and he added, smiling as always, "that's right!" He later tried to weasel his way out of it by saying he was only joking. Just like his pathetically lame attempt now to say that when he warned Anthony to stay out of the paint, he just meant that Anthony shouldn't be piling it on score-wise, not that it was a threat.

Still, somehow, Isiah managed to escape without any penalty. Denver came out infinitely the worse, losing Anthony for 15 games and J.R. Smith for 10. The Knicks only "lose" Nate Robinson for 10, which is probably a blessing in disguise. Jeffries is out for 4, which hurts a little, but it does give Channing Frye more time to rediscover the game he had last year. Collins it out for 6, but so what?

I'm not saying Anthony didn't deserve it for throwing that sucker punch. But it's just ironic how the team that really initiated the problem sometimes gets off much easier, because they used their scrubs to do the fighting for them.

If its true that Stern refused to punish Isiah for warning Anthony to stay out of the lane, I can accept that. Words alone probably don't warrant punishment. But if it can be proved that Isiah instructed his players to take out Anthony in the lane, that should warrant some form of punishment.

I tried to warn you about JR Smith. Yeap; he's a good shooter and flashy on the fast break, but he's also an immature, spoiled brat. Collins was wrong to foul him, but JR should have been man enough to walk away. There's no excuse for what Melo did. None. There was no reason to punch anyone; the situation had calmed. I would have suspended Melo for at least 20 games. I also think Nate Robinson and Jared Jeffries need some anger management classes. Both looked like angry, wild animals out there.

On a lighter note, looks like Marbury, the most selfish NBA player in history, is doing an excellent job of padding his stats. The Jazz, a very good basketball team, ought to be ashamed of losing to the Knicks. But your wish has been granted; Frye is receiving more playing time; he played well tonight.

Sorry about your Warriors losing to the Nets tonight, buddy. Jason Kidd is a tough and crafty baller. Better luck next time.

Actually, just because I live in California doesn't mean I'd root for the Warriors over the Nets. I grew up in Jersey, so the Nets are by far my favorite team in the East. Also, I'm with you about Kidd. Too bad he can't shoot -- he's got absolutely everything else one could want in a point guard.

What you say about Isiah is, I think, why he didn't get suspended. It would be almost impossible for Stern to "prove" Isiah ordered that foul. Collins (or anyone else) isn't going to fess up, because then his ass would be nailed to the bench for the rest of his career as a Knick.

Anyway, just be glad the Pacers and Steven Jackson weren't involved, because he'd probably have pulled a gat out of his jersey.

It's being reported that Alan Iverson has been traded to the Denver Nuggets.

Carmelo Anthony and Alan Iverson on the same team...intriguing

It's official -- Iverson and Ivan McFarlin to Denver for Andre Miller, Joe Smith and two 2007 first-round picks (one is Denver's pick and the other was originally from Dallas). Not being an NBA follower I don't know anything about Miller or Smith as players or their contract status. Billy King is talking to reporters now and says they have cap flexibility, though.

The deal is done with first round draft picks and some salary dump. Smith has an expiring contract of 7 million this year while Miller has two years left at 19 million. Miller is averaging 13 points and 9.1 assists per game -- third-best in the NBA. He is not a bad player although if we want the team to tank, bad is what you want. The good news in all this, is the three first round picks this year. Let's hope the Sixers don't screw it up. If they are lucky enough to get the number 1 pick on their own, they will have flexibility to use the other two picks to trade up in the draft, or trade for good player. By the start of the 2008 season both Webber and Miller's contracts will expire freeing up an additional 30 million.

Joe and Phillyrunner: Andre Miller is a point guard, best known for directing slow down half-court basketball. Because he's not very fast, he's probably not someone you want leading a fast break. The biggest difference between Andre Miller and AI, with the exception of the obvious (AI is a far superior player), is that Miller prefers to set up his teammates rather than execute multiple crossover dribbles to free up his own jump shot;; e.g. AI. Andre runs the offense a lot like Derek Fisher ran the Laker's Shaq-oriented offense; or maybe like Chris Duhon in Chicago. But he's no Steve Nash. I think the Sixers will be happy with Miller; especially CWebb and Korver. Miller is a smart PG, so he will get them ball where they can do the most good.

Joe Smith is an 11 year veteran; a power forward. So I guess he will be Chris Webber's backup (Chris is injury-prone, he definitely needs one), since he's obviously less talented offensively than CWebb. Joe averages about 5 ppg and 4 rpg, but doesn't get much playing time. However, he is a better defender, and more courageous, than CWebb. Joe Smith's inclusion in this trade is all his expiring contract, his veteran leadership, and, helping the Sixers gain some financial liquidity.

Unless the Sixers get Greg Oden, the pics won't have the effect you might think, unless some more big names decide to leave early.

As for the Nuggets, I still don't see how Carmelo, JR Smith, and AI will co-exist. Melo shoots 25 times per game. AI shoots 25 times per game. JR Smith shoots 12 shots per game. This can't happen. Someone is going to get fewer shots, and neither Melo, AI, or JR Smith is likely to accept this without a fight; something that could risk team chemistry. So, I don't know whow this will work. We'll have to wait and see how AI, Melo, and JR interact when all three are on the court at the same time. Karl is going to have his hands full with these three.

Larry: I'm not a big Nets fan; just a big Jason Kidd fan. I like him, except when he beats his woman. That's not right. But on the court, he's a heady and gutsy little point guard.

This was obviously the best Philly could do under the circumstances. Snider really backed them into a corner by cashiering Iverson and then announcing a fire sale on him. Just think, Sixers fans, if Snider had pulled the trigger this summer, they could have had Boozer.

Andre Miller is a nice point guard if he's surrounded by shooters and players who can produce offense. This will be a real test for Iguodala, Korver, Dalembert, etc., to see if they've really got any game. They'll no longer have the excuse that Iverson was holding them back.

I agree with Thomas about the draft picks. This is supposed to be an incredibly strong draft year, but one of those picks will probably be in the low 20's and the other is going to be in the high 20's (one is Denver's and the other is from Dallas). You can always get lucky at the end of the first round, but the odds are a lot longer there.

Thomas -- I'm not as pessimistic as you are about AI, Melo and Smith co-existing (well, maybe Smith, but he's not as important as he thinks he is). Iverson *should* be incredibly motivated to prove all his detractors wrong, about his not being able to share the ball with another all star caliber player. He did on the U.S. team in 2004 (the team's failure wasn't his fault). I think the biggest problem for the Nuggets is all the adjusting they'll have to do. With Carmelo out for 15 games, the Nuggets now are unquestionably Iverson's team, and everyone will have to make a huge adjustment to that. Then Melo comes back and everyone will have to make another huge adjustment. This will be a real test for Karl. Still, I think right now Iverson is going to be motivated to make it work. If they don't win a championship this year (and I would bet against it), though, I think Iverson may resort to some of his old habits next year. It sure will be interesting!

There are three things to consider:

1) If the draft pool is as deep as they say, a team can get very good talented players with those later picks.
2) They also have the option of trading them -- possibly trading the two lower picks for another lottery pick, or trading for future picks, or whatever.
3) Most importantly, who is going to handle all of this? Billy King has been a near-disaster in his time here. If he stays in charger of the 76ers there's plenty of reason to think he'll screw it up and put the franchise in a hole for years to come.

Well, you never know. You can luck out and get a great player at the bottom of the first round (Tony Parker, Josh Howard) or even the second round (Gil Arenas). But your odds are a lot shorter, particularly if you have the acumen of Billy King. I don't think anyone's going to be trading away a high draft pick in this draft either, unless they get a certified star in exchange.

Larry and Joe: The Sixers losing streak continues, and there's no reason to think that will change. Exactly how many 1st rds picks have they stock-piled so far this year? And are those pics lottery protected or not? I don't know the answer, but I'm curious, because the Sixers will almost certainly earn an additional high draft pick of their own. I also do not know whether the Sixers even own their 2007 1st rd draft picks; sometimes teams trade them away (e.g.; isiah). So I don't have enough information to gauge the Sixers chances of getting some quality big men. The point, as Larry pointed out, is this: as is, most of the bigs will be gone before Philly gets a crack at them. But the 2007 draft is months way, so anything can happen. Who would have thought that Totonto would have passed on Aldrich? Who could have predicted that the Texans would have foolishly passed on Reggie Bush? Draft choices are not always about the best available talent. As Travelpat and Canmark will tell, you, sometimes managers pick players that fit their system, their community, and their bank books. And sometimes, draft pic are made simply because they get out-maneuvered. Look how the TWolves got squeezed and screwed in the last draft.

The Sixers need big men and next years's draft will be loaded with PFs and SFs, but not much many quality centers; Oden is the exception. But I suspect the best of them will be long gone before the Sixers get to use the pics they got from Denver.

Larry: I agree wit you about AI's willingness to share the rock in international play. But last year wasn't the first time he's done this, and it has yet to translate into a willingness to share the rock in league play. Maybe you're right; maybe he just needs to be on a team with a premiere scorer. I just don't see AI changing his stripes in Denver. But I would welcome it if it happened. I used to like AI a lot, before all the domestic abuse and chest-thumping homophobia (which he is entitled to). I like Melo's game a lot; always have, but I don't think he's a good guy either. I feel the same way about Kobe. I actually hate JR Smith ( he's a spoiled brat) and that's not going to change. I wish there were more Magics, Birds, Ewings, and Nashs in todays game, but I never allow my personal feelings about individual players to overwhelm my love for the game. I just don't know what to make of the Nuggets with AI aboard. I hope he does forget the "me" in favor of "team" (I actually want to like AI, the man, as well as AI, the baller), but I won't believe it until I see it.

I don't follow Denver, but from what I know of Andre Miller, he is an above avg pt guard who records assist in bundles. Although, his stats are somewhat puzzling.. He's had a few yrs with Den where he only averaged 6 assist per season, when he is very capable of avg 10 apg.

I like the trade and I don't like the trade, primarily becasue w/ a true point guard, the 6ers will be a little better, thus reducing our chances in the Greg Oden sweepstakes. J. Smith will also play his but off but his time has passed and skills eroded. He was just filler in the trade anyway.

The 2 1st Rd pks will be in the low to high 20's like someone mentioned earlier. Still they could package them to move up in the lottery.

Overall, I like the deal. It will free up nearly 30 million in cap space over the next 2 yrs making us avail to sign qaulity free agents.



Very true.. I still think Billy King is a moron. But, I'll give him credit for getting the best value out of the Iverson deal.

Thomas -- the Sixers still have their own draft pick, and that is their best hope for the future. They will surely finish with one of the three worst records in the league, so they'll have as good a chance as anyone at Oden. But that would have been the case regardless of who they traded Iverson for (unless they got someone really really good, but we knew that wasn't going to happen).

I think one of the two picks they got from Denver is protected through 15, but I'm sure it will be lower than that anyway, so it's probably a moot issue.

The other thing that should be disappointing to Sixers fans about the trade is that they were hoping to get a *young* stud with potential. Instead they got Miller, who's already 30. And 30 is relatively old for a point guard -- most of them start declining soon after 30. Obviously Nash is a huge exception, but he's just off the map. I think Iverson is a huge exception too, because he's simply a genetic freak.

Thomas: Because you think Nash is boring off-court, I just had to post this quote by him, about Carmelo's sucker-punch-and-run routine at the Garden:

"Typical NBA punch. In hockey, your own team would beat you up for that."

Until I see Steve on Dancing With The Stars, or, hanging out with the Heat's Jason Williams (now there's a guy who knows how to party), or reversing his hat ( a do rag would do that boring image a world of good), or even nattily attired like Joel Pryzbilla (very fly), or fired up arguing a point of view, he will always be boring. I can't even see Steve as an NBA analyst. He was clearly born to entertain on the court, not away from it. Plus, the guy is destined to be an NBA coach after retirement. Maybe then he can show Isiah how it's done. However, that quote about Melo is funny. Calling out Melo for that sucker punch shows he does have a sense of humor; too bad we don't get to hear it very often. For the record, Steve is actually my favorite NBA player. But no way could I party with that dude.

And Larry, about 40+ and near-40+ PGs, you forgot Jason Kidd and Gary Payton.




All this time I thought the "sf" in sfdriftking76 stood for "San Francisco". I was sure you were a Warrior fan. Now I find you are actually a Sixer fan? Welcome to the long-suffering sports fan club. I'm a Saints fan, so I know what Sixer fans are going through right now. And, yes, Blly King is a friggin idiot, primarily because of the way he publicly shopped and embarressed AI during the off-season. I'm not an AI fan, but he is one of the NBA's elite, and deserved better.

I assume you're putting Payton in the 40+ category. He may not appreciate that, but it's completely understandable based on his play the last few years.

Seriously -- some kind on ESPN.com (Hollinger) had an article about the select point guards who still maintain elite status past 30. Like a lot of Hollinger's stuff, it wasn't that convincing, but the factors he pointed to were size (larger than the typical point guard), passing ability and shooting ability. I wonder if he thinks shooting ability is why Kidd has managed to stay vital at 33? Payton certainly was still great through his early 30's. The wheels started coming off (including on defense, his one-time specialty) when he got to around 35.

Don't look now - but the Bosh-less Raps just won their second thriller in a row on the road and they now are alone in first place in the Atlantic. Wednesday it was TJ Ford's buzzer beater to beat the Clippers in LA. Tonight in Portland it appeared the Raps had won at the buzzer with a Garbajosa put back, but after checking out the replay the refs ruled no bucket as the ball appeared to leave Garbajosa's hand almost at the same time as the red light came on. (The Rap TV announcers thought it should count).

But no worries. TJ Ford took over with 9 overtime points. But the Raps still trailed by one with 8 seconds left in the overtime. TJ drove to the bucket, outleted to the rookie Bargnani and our rookie delivered again and the Raptors won 101-100. TJ the star with 23 points and 10 assists. Who knows what will happen down the road, and they are only 12 - 15, but to be in first place in the division, having 9 new players on the roster, being without Bosh for 8 of their 27 games, and having played 17 of those 27 games on the road including 8 of those road games against the stronger Western conference teams, I'd say it is fairly Merry Christmas for Raptors fans. Our first in a while.

Also good news to see Calderon back with the team tonight. Turns out his scary looking injury on Sunday was just a bruise.

Larry I owe Gary Payton and Jason Kidd an apology. From now on, I'll check NBA.com for stats. But man, I could have sworn Peyton and Kidd were forty; seems like they've been around forever. Plus, they actually look forty.

What did you think of AI's debut in Denver? Not bad, huh? Both AI and Kobe handing out double digit assists last night? Who do they think they are, Steve Nash? Good for them. Let's hope AI continues this trend when Melo, Camby, and JR Smith return to action; and, that Kobe continues setting up his teammates when Lamar Odom returns.

Adonal Foyle and Dunleavey Jr. are rumored to be on the trading blocks. Too bad. P.J. Brown's days in Chicago are also numbered. Get this, the Sixwers are actually trying to trade Andre Miller. I know the reason and think its a good move for Philly, if they can pull it off, but I wonder who they're targeting now. I'm guessing no one; probably role players and more pics.

Travelpat: Props to the Raptors. The Raptors beat two good teams. I don't mean to dampen your joy and enthusiasm, I know how much you love your team, but 12-15 is not very good. That record wouldn't even get you into the top half of the Western conference. Good to see TJ Ford finding a role in Toronto. Loved watching him play at Texas. Hope he stays healthy and continues to play well.

Adonal Foyle and Dunleavey? good luck with that. They both have monster contracts, but I read somewhere that Foyle still has 5 guaranteed yrs?? WHat was Mullin drinking when he inked that deal..

I also heard the same about Miller, but didn't know if it were true. It doesn't surprise me; they'll be looking for another expiring contract just in case Oden doesn't bounce their way. A good fit would be to send Miller back to Cleveland. LeBron could use a good pt. guard.

To my horror, Dunleavey Sr. apparently is continuing to try to engineer a trade of Maggette for his son. If there's ever been a need for anti-nepotism rules in the NBA, now is it. Fortunately, the salaries don't match up (Jr. gets (over)paid a lot more), so it hasn't been that easy to do. I can only pray that Elgin Baylor has enough sense and enough influence to put a stop to this insanity.

Thomas: I liked Iverson's debut. Even without Melo out there, AI was more intent on dishing out dimes, than on taking every shot. I really think it might work. Still, Denver will never play the defense necessary to win the Western Conference, and obviously Iverson isn't going to help in that regard.

Regarding Toronto: I agree, a 12 -15 record isn't much to get excited about. With th Net's Krstic out for the season, the Raptors could even win that pathetic division but... why would they want to? So they can get crushed (totally crushed) in the first round of the playoffs? Wouldn't they rather have a lottery pick in this great upcoming draft? Still, I'm pretty impressed with how well they are playing without Bosh.

Hey Larry and Thomas:
Bear with us (over?)excited Raptor fans. You have to remember - last year - we weren't 12-15, we were 2-15. And if they do happen to win the division, that means they'll have the #3 seed and play the #6 seed I believe. So that is likely somebody like the Pacers or Washington. I'm not so sure they would get 'crushed' by either of those teams.

Heck the Raps in their history I think have only made the playoffs 3 times and have only ever won one series. So potentially being in the playoffs sounds OK to me. After all with the Leafs slide of late I'm not counting on them for my late April entertainment, and I'd really like to have a team to cheer for other than the Jays in late April. After all how excited can you get about April baseball games?

Well 3 times in the playoffs (in your relativly short history) and one first round victory equals the total accomplishment of the Clippers since they've been in California (1978 to present), so don't feel bad. The Clippers have about the same record as your Raptors so far, and I rooting for them to tank the rest of the season. Now as long as Elgin Baylor doesn't have anything to do with their draft pick...

Pat: The Raptors would compete well against the Pacers in post-season play, if they got that far, but in my opinion, would get crushed by the Wizards, especially if Arenas and Butler are "on". Which Raptor player is capable of shutting down either of them? I wouldn't want to play Arenas anytime, anywhere; that dude can actually embarress opposing teams single-handedly. Just ask the Lakers.

Larry: Ande Miller better than Eric Snow? Of course. No argument there. The Cavs are basically a two man team; Lebron and Gooden. But why would the Sixers want Eric Snow? Unless they wre seeking to increase their odds of getting Oden? A better trade would be Miller to a losing team, someone's whose draft pick would almost certainly net the Sixers a high draft pic. Which PGs on losing teams earn salaries in the same ballpark as Millers, and has an expiring contract? I'll bet that the question being asked in the Sixer FO right now.

The fellas over at realgm.com have worked up the numbers and found Jason Williams to be a perfect fit for Andre Miller (similar salaries; expiring contract, etc). But I disagree. Why would the Sixers want another late 1st rd pic; thhhhat won't help them get Oden. Plus, isn't Miami prohibited from trading it's 1st rd pic anyway. I don't think sending Miller to Miami for Jason William is a good idea. You know how much I like Jason Williams, and I want him to stay in Miami, with Shaq and DWade; also two of my favorite players.

About Dunleavey Jr., I never thought he was a good fit for Nellie's system. And I predicted he would end up on the trading block. Maggette for Dunleavey Jr? I won't pull the trigger on that deal. I know why Dunleavey Jr's name is always in the rumor mill, but tell me again why Magette shares this distinction?

P.S. Larry, what is "flood control" error? A I posting too much?

I thought Jason Williams' contract doesn't expire until next year. It would be nuts for the Sixers to just give Miller away, unless they were either getting a contract that expires *this* year, or (as you point out) getting what is likely to be a high draft pick. Dealing with the Heat won't give them either of those.

I've never understood Dunleavey's Sr.'s hatred of Maggette. There must be something behind the scenes. Particularly given that Brand is obviously exhausted from the summer, that Kaman has taken a huge step back after signing his huge contract, and that Cassell is having injury problems (as well as getting even older), the Clippers desperately need Maggette's offense.

Thomas: I think "flood control" is what the Raptors' defense would need if they faced the Wizards in the playoffs. Washington would probably average 140 points a game against them.

Turns out the Clippers are trying to get Artest for Maggette now! That's one hell of a gutsy move. The Clippers tried that last year, but the Pacers were leery of Maggette's injury.

I think I liked that deal better last year. Artest is proving to be a malcontent with yet another team, so you got to wonder about the guy fitting in anywhere. Still, he brings a heck of a lot more to the table than Dunleavy Jr. does.