This discussion string is being initiated in order to facilitate a discussion among GLBT hockey players and fans with regard to the 2006 competing games.

IGLIHA, although not directly involved with this discussion list, is seeking input from players about how we handle the possibility of two large scale tournaments just a few days apart.

Chicago wins bid to host 2006 Gay Games...

Interesting development. I've sent an email to all the players for our teams in Vancouver to try and get a concensus on how we want to deal with the two events coming so close together.

To say the least this is extremely frustrating. I was looking forward to going to Montreal and participate in their event. Now I must decided between Chicago and Montreal. This whole situation has come down to a power struggle and all it is doing is affecting the athletes. Maybe we should just boycott boty events. I do not see how either city is going to be able to put together a successful event, unless they scale it way back. Will this cause a demise of the gay games? I won't decide what I am going to do until much closer to the event. I have a feeling a lot will change between now and 2006.

This decision is not as hard as it sounds. If you want to compete in Gay Games VII, your only question should be which hotel in Chicago to reserve. If you want to try a new event with no track record and don't object to all the vitriolic attacks coming out of Rendez Vous, you should check out Montreal.

Well, while I appreciate Rich's enthusiasm, we recognize that the decision will be a bit more difficult for some. I wrote to Keith and the text of that letter I've included here as other Ice Hockey participants might be interested.

###########

Keith;

I read your posting on Outsports about your frustration about the competing events in Chicago and Montreal in the summer of 2006.

While I can't do anything about the past, especially the split between the Federation of Gay Games and Montreal - I can do a lot to help ensure that the event in Chicago meets your expectations. Let me start by giving you the basics of the proposed Ice Hockey tournament at Gay Games VII.

Venue
Our Ice Hockey tournament is proposed for the Robert Crown Center and Ice Rink, adjacent to Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois, but is managed by the City of Evanston. The Crown Center has two rinks, one a larger rink that is used for many local ice shows in addition to ice hockey. The Crown Center has seating for 2,000, dressing rooms and a snack bar. The smaller ice rink is housed in the same building and can be used for practice and warmups.

Evanston is the first suburb north of Chicago on the Lakefront and is linked to the City of Chicago’s mass transit system via rail (Metra), light rail (the “El” or “Elevated”) and CTA/Pace Bus System. The Chicago Transit Authority’s “Elevated” train system, with a Red Line stop 2 blocks from our proposed Gay Games Hub, travels north to Evanston with just one simple train transfer between the Hub and the stop convenient to the Robert Crown Arena. The venue is top-notch and the city is a great, friendly environment. Evanston was one of the first cities in the US to adopt non-discrimination policies based upon sexual orientation and is beautiful in the summer.

Northwestern and Evanston are the site of our North Sports Village. Approximately 1600 athletes (out of 12,000 estimated participants overall) will compete in Ice Hockey, Badminton, Diving, Racquetball, Tennis and Water Polo in Evanston. There are other ice rinks that are suitable for ice hockey, but this ice rink puts the players close to other competitors, enhancing the overall Gay Game experience. It's only about 45 minutes from Evanston back to the center of Chicago, 30 minutes if you were to stop in Lakeview or "boystown" for a post-game celebration, or to walk to the Lakefront to watch Rowing, Beach Volleyball, Softball or other sports being offered at the Lakefront.

Size of Tournament
In Sydney there were 16 Ice Hockey teams in the Gay Games with about 200 individuals (150 men, 50 women). When we submitted our initial proposal to the FGG, we also estimated 200 individuals, or about 16 teams, would participate in Gay Games VII. One of the responses we got back was that the FGG representatives felt that Ice Hockey would be larger due to the return to North America and the increasing popularity of GLBT ice hockey. On the other hand, Canada obviously has a strong ice hockey tradition and so for those who cannot participate in both Chicago and Montreal's events, the choice will certainly lead to some who will go to Montreal and not Chicago. But we are prepared to increase the size of our tournament, if necessary, and in our supplementary materials we offered a couple of options for expanding the tournament, including the use of Johnnie's Ice Hut for some preliminary rounds (near the University Sports Village; near downtown Chicago).

Sports Directors
Ice Hockey is being co-directed by Deb Siegel and Chuck Jacobson. Deb currently serves on the executive committee of the Chicago Area Women's Ice Hockey Organization and was the Chicago Black and Blue women's ice hockey tournament co-chair for 2 years. She has coordinated traveling teams participating in tournaments around North America. Chuck started playing hockey in 1990 and has been an active participate of the Chicago Gay Hockey Assocation for the past four years. He's currently the president of CGHA. In case you've not seen their website, you can learn more about CGHA at ChicagoGayHockey.org.

What Now?
Can you tell me what you consider to be the primary elements that would make the event a "success" here? The things that would help you make a decision to participate in the Gay Games in 2006? What size would the tournament need to be in order to be successful in your mind?

Kevin Boyer
Chicago Games, Inc.
ChicagoGamesInc.org

Kevin -

Thanks a lot for understanding that some of us might not see the decision as being so cut and dried and for telling us your vision for the tournament. It helps a lot.

Hey Kevin, didn't you leave out the 1500 swimmers from your list of what will be in the North Sports Village?

Lindsay ... Things change.

We submitted our bid on January 30. On February 10 we received a list of questions from the FGG. One of the questions was fairly simple - it questioned our estimates of the number of water polo players. Upon review of statistics from Gay Games VI in Sydney, we concurred with the premise of that question - that the water polo tournament would probably be 2.5 times as large as we had estimated (250 players instead of 100).

But the growth of the Water Polo Tournament led us to question the entire Aquatics program and the capacity of Northwestern to handle 1815 divers, water polo players and swimmers. For example, we were considering the use of bulkheads to create two 25 meter pools out of the NU 50 meter pool so that we could handle the larger tournament. This is allowed by the FGG's Sports Red Book, but clearly not ideal. After several days of review we concluded that the best way to meet the expectations of the swimmers, divers and water polo players was to modify our venue selections.

The result was a decision to move swimming to the University of Illinois/Chicago. The UIC facility is a superior 50-meter pool for swimming and will make the large swimming tournament run more smoothly. By moving swimming to UIC we are also able to run the Diving and the larger Water Polo competitions at Northwestern University with fewer scheduling conflicts (read: fewer late games). The result will be a much more satisfying competition for everyone.

Of course, this does mean that the Aquatics program doesn't take place all at one venue. This concern resulted in our first decision to place all of Aquatics at one venue. But upon review and in consultation with others we concluded that the integrity and smoothness of the Aquatics tournaments were more important than the opportunity for Swimmers to watch Diving, etc.

The University Sports Village is the host of Basketball, Martial Arts, Soccer and also some Tennis. The University Sports Village is also the closest to the downtown Gay Games Hub - only 10 to 15 minutes away via mass transit. We hope that this will help offset any disappointment on the part of the swimmers that they will not be at the same venue as the other Aquatics participants.

FYI - the actual text that we submitted to the FGG on February 20 about the venue changes is below:

Swimming – University of Illinois/Chicago (“University Sports Village”)
• Please see the Venue Questionnaire contained on page 19/20 of our bid document.
• Number of lanes - 8
• Width between lanes – 2.15 meters
• Depth – 3.5 – 16 feet
• Length - 50 meters
• Spectator seating – 2,000
• Lockers - yes
• Concessions and/or stores nearby – yes
• Special considerations – small pool (6 lanes, 25 yards) nearby for warm up & large deck area for swimmers awaiting events

Diving – Northwestern University Norris Aquatics Center (“North Sports Village”)
• Please see the Venue Questionnaire contained on page 18/19 of our bid document.
• Separate diving well – Yes, using moveable bulkhead
• Depth – 16 feet
• Length – as much as 50 meters without bulkhead
• Boards – 2 x 1 meter; 2 x 3 meter, 1 x platform
• Spectator seating – 500
• Hot Tub - yes
• Lockers - yes
• Concessions and/or stores nearby – yes
• Special considerations – This facility has recently been fully renovated and is a state of the art facility with all new equipment, a training room and warm up areas.

Water Polo – Northwestern University Norris Aquatics Center (“North Sports Village”)
• Please see the Venue Questionnaire contained on page 18/19 of our bid document.
• Number of lanes – n/a
• Width between lanes - n/a
• Depth – 16 feet
• Width – 25 meters
• Length - 25 meters (50 meters without bulkhead)
• Spectator seating – 500
• Lockers - yes
• Concessions and/or stores nearby – yes
• Special considerations – moveable bulkhead will provide an all deep pool in an excellent NCAA Division I facility.

Kevin Boyer
Chicago Games, Inc.
ChicagoGamesInc.org

[ March 10, 2004, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: KevinB ]

Cool! A 100m pool!

I'll miss watching the diving but I guess 1500 swimmers will provide enough to watch.

And now, back to hockey...

[ March 10, 2004, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: Lindsay ]

Hey Kevin

Thanks for the input. I hope and trust that Chicago Games will be in touch with the International Gay & Lesbian Ice Hockey Association to further discuss hockey in 2006.

In my discussions with other members of the IGLIHA board one sense is very evident. One games does not have any advantage over the other at this stage. We really want input from GLBT hockey players about what direction to take to get beyond 2006.

No one is interested any longer about who did what to who and the focus has to be about moving forward. Having said that I would love to hear more comments.

Paul

I've asked Montreal for an outline like we see here from Chicago. That should help us make an informed decision.

HockeyPaul - of course we'll be in touch with them - Chuck Hagel of IGLHA continues to be actively involved in the FGG and we'll work with IGLHA separately on the tournament. Thanks.

Just a thought - an apologies if its a little off topic....

was wondering if the IGLIHA had any bright ideas for boosting international (non-Nth Amer) participation at either event?

Eden Good question and very relevant to this discussion. We have had a hard time finding GLBT hockey players outside N.America. Recently we have been in touch with a few individuals from Europe and have been providing advice on how to start up a hockey club. We were also approached by a straight media source in Europe who was writing a story about homophobia in hockey. I am hoping our tales of success in N.America will change some ideas in Europe.

We also have a few friends down under, although no known clubs at this point.

Paul O'Kane
Secretary, IGLIHA

hey Again,

great to hear we are thinking about this. As one of the "Down under" hockey players - would love to see a more international flavour to the games. Rodge has done a fantastic job networking amongst the gay sports community (someday you should pin him down and ask him about his PhD in that area).

For us here Hockey will only ever be a minority sport so it becomes like when multiply fractions...though i do remember one transgender playing in the womens league - which caused a mummur amoungst the powers that be.

Will look forward to seeing more northern hemisphere boys (and northern European boys) at what ever games my time and budget let me attend in 2006

By Ross Forman
Special to the Tribune
Published April 1, 2004

Chuck Jacobson is helping his team prepare for a playoff game Thursday, but the founder of the only gay hockey team in the area is also looking down the road to the 2006 Gay Games.

"I can't wait to showcase the [team] to the rest of the worldwide gay community," said Jacobson, president of the Chicago Gay Hockey Association, which started the team. "That's one of the most exciting aspects of the Gay Games coming to Chicago, actually getting to see and go against the worldwide hockey talent."


Inspired by a gay hockey league in New York, Jacobson, 29, a delivery truck driver, began two years ago to recruit gay men looking for competition and camaraderie. He found 15 players, some of whom played on other teams, some who just liked hockey. Most are gay; two players are straight; and one is a lesbian.

"I enjoy playing with a similar peer group," said team member Andy Rogers, 41, a graphic designer from Chicago. "I'm proud to be part of a group that makes it easier for others to understand that gay or straight, we're all still competitive and can compete equally."

The team--named Spin after its sponsor, a Lakeview bar--has done moderately well in the nine-team coed league. After an 0-2 start, its 8-8 record was good enough for fifth place and a spot in the playoffs.

"They're a very good team, with a lot of talent," said Chad Solarz, 30, captain of the Drunk Penguins, which split two games with the Spin during the season. "A hockey player is a hockey player; it doesn't matter that they're a gay team."

After the CGHA put together the team, members joined a league at the Glacier Ice Arena in Vernon Hills. They switched to the Rolling Meadows Park District's senior men's hockey league this season for stronger competition and because it was an easier commute from Chicago, members said.

The CGHA players, who include a real estate agent, a waiter, a lawyer and a neurologist, range in age from 18 to 53. Most live in Chicago, though one player drives in from Kenosha.

Team members pay $300 each for the season, which runs from October through April. It's a no-contact league; any hits carry a minimum 2-minute penalty. And despite its link with men, the league allows women. Ten play on various teams.

On Thursday, the Spin will play the Drillers at the West Meadows Ice Arena in a quarterfinal playoff game that starts about 10:45 p.m.

Craig Welker, senior hockey director for the Rolling Meadows Park District, said he didn't know the Spin was a gay team when it registered, but it wouldn't have mattered.

"It makes no difference what they or any player on any team does outside of the rink. That's none of my business," Welker said.

Jacobson said the handful of derogatory comments thrown at players over the last two years have been "typical hockey trash-talking."

"Not personal attacks," he said.

Offensive comments about a player's sexual orientation, race or religion are not tolerated, said Scott Zaban, 28, a referee in the Rolling Meadows league. They will get players ejected from the game.

"The perception in sports is that it's not OK to be out in the locker room," said Spin player Ryan Ruskin, 35, president of a box manufacturing company. "We try to provide a supportive environment where you can play hockey and be yourself; that's most important."

Being gay is not a prerequisite. Geoff Boehme, 30, a hotel employee in Chicago, joined after spotting a flier for the team last year at his gym.

"What was most important to me was that the team was affordable, could help me with transportation and it wanted to have a good time," said Boehme, who does not have a car.

"When I met the guys, they were really cool. It's not strange for me at all. We all have the same goal: to play hockey and have fun."

The CGHA's origins go back to an online chat Jacobson had about two years ago with Jeff Kagan, director of New York City's Gay Hockey Association. Jacobson met Kagan in July 2002 at New York's annual Chelsea Challenge, a gay hockey tournament.

Jacobson returned to Chicago and passed out fliers at the 2002 Gay Pride Parade.

Besides the team, Jacobson's organization has a Web site--www.chicagogayhockey.org--and is trying to start a team for new players. He hopes to host a tournament for gay teams from the U.S. and Canada at several suburban rinks.

"Hockey is an intimidating sport," Jacobson said. "But that doesn't mean a gay team can't play and win."

Copyright © 2004, Chicago Tribune

hey again,
just some quick questions Paul. Just wondering when the IGLIHA website was going to be updated?

Secondly, probably start my PhD in the Autumn in New York. What tournaments are happening around then to get me in the sporting mood?

Cheers

E

Hmm. The Friendship tournament in Toronto has traditionally been Canadian Thanksgiving weekend, which is Columbus day weekend in the US. I think the other year they had a tournament in LA over Labor day weekend, but I think that's about it for that time of year.

Trevor

Thanks for that - now just need to get myself to New York at the end of August. Its just about cheaper to get a return fare to Europe!

Catch ya

e

Eden:

We (IGLIHA) are in the process of re-designing the website. It will be re-launched (hopefully) sometime in May. I will announce any dates on this list.

As for tourneys. The next one is in Montreal on May 21st through May 24th. This is followed by NYC's Chelsea Challenge on June 18-20.

Looking ahead, Colorado will be hosting a tournament on Labor day Weekend and Toronto's Friendship tournament is scheduled for October 8-11.

Hope this helps.

Paul

count me in for Toronto - if someone will have an orphan Kiwi (the boys from DC were noce enough to let me play with them in Sydney ~ despite there gender confusion over the name "Eden")

Next stop - to get a VISA and buy the winning lottery ticket

then smile to go through immigration. Your immigration service just announced that all Kiwis and Aussies now get finger printed and our photos taken at the border. The press release stated that this was "consistent with the welcoming nature of the U.S.".... and all this despite friends and family serving in Korea and Vietnam, let alot the muddle East.

Fun fun fun

Hey Eden your going to Toronto, Canada! I don't think Canada has the same rules.

Well - Paul - you missed my earlier post - am going to be based in upstate New York doing my PhD

Hence my Mug shot.

And its closer to Toronto

E

Hey Eden:

If you are going to be in upstate New York, you must come visit us in Vermont!

Paul

Thanks for that Paul and Trevor - perhaps i could play for the Nationals Again *grin*

http://www.face-pic.com/eden_nz

As for Vermont...

Will do my best

E

well, if you make a trip to DC, we'll have to get a drink.

Trevor