Looks like WVU is heading to the Gator Bowl. Invitation was extended and accepted a few hours ago. WVU was picked because they travel better than Texas. Texas will end up in the Alamo Bowl (I like that only because I only have to travel 15 minutes to see my Horns play) playing Iowa.

Cotton Bowl stuck with Nebraska as the Big 12 #2. I don't know of the others but I'm sure they'll shake out all afternoon. I'm sure the Cotton is waiting like the rest of us to see if Florida ends up in the National Championship game. If so, LSU will go to Sugar, Arkansas would probably go to the Captial One, and Tennessee would go to Cotton.

I wouldn't be suprised if the Orange Bowl doesn't sell out. Don't get me wrong: I love it that there's new blood, but Wake Forest is a smaller private university that doesn't have as large an alumni base as some other schools do. Also, Louisville doesn't seem to travel all that well for bowls.....
Should not be too difficult to get tickets...

Louisville doesn't travel well for bowl games?



2004 Liberty Bowl 35,000 fans
2005 Gator Bowl 25,000 fans


Louisvile travels very well.

Arkansas and Wisconsin in the Capital One Bowl. Not sure how to rank this match-up. Gut feel gives the edge to Arkansas.

Regarding traveling well, Arkansas is one of the best traveling teams in the nation. Expect to see a sea of red ... oh yea, Wisconsin's color is red also. How you gonna tell 'em apart?

Tennessee's in the Outback Bowl against Penn State, another SEC-Big 10 matchup.

Bob Costas just reported the following, "according to the LA Times":

Ohio State vs. Florida
USC vs. Michigan

I can't remember the third match up for the Sugar Bowl.

UPDATE
So I just went to the LA Times, and this is what they report:
Rose: USC vs. Michigan.
Sugar: Notre Dame vs. LSU.
Orange: Louisville vs. Wake Forest.
Fiesta: Oklahoma vs. Boise State.

Yahoo's "Predictions" - right before the formal televised announcement (posted right before the Fox Sports show started):
National Championship: Ohio State vs. Florida
Rose: USC vs. Michigan
Sugar: LSU vs. Notre Dame
Orange: Wake Forest vs. Louisville
Fiesta: Oklahoma vs. Boise State

No changes to the LA Times report -- so, this looks like THE line-up.

Okay, is anyone else as bored with the BCS Selection Show as me? The commentators are idiots and the suspense is lame (since we already know what the lineup is). Fox should have saved their air time and just did a quick announcement. For them to try to play this up like the NCAA Basketball Selection show it's a big flop.

Maybe even more reason for a playoff system since it would actually have some substance for this kind of build-up.

Snoooozer ...and not very suspenseful, especially since OCD geeks like me were online scouring for info.
Love how the Peacock network broke the news to steal Fox's thunder.

For the first time in a long, long, LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time, I'm not upset about the BCS slate. In fact, I'm kinda stoked!

For once I'm actually happy with the "BSC" matchups. I'm SO GLAD Florida and my uber hottie Chris Leak get to play OSU because after USC royally f*cked it up yesterday I was praying Michigan wasn't able to get a repeat that I didn't want to see again. The SEC is stacked in the matchups and I personally don't think Notre Dame belongs in there. But, overall I'm pleased. OSU/Florida. Has their ever been a national championship college football game where the two QBs were black? Just wondering for history's sake.

I'm disappointed. I'm no fan of Michigan, but at least they would have brought the game to Ohio State. Instead, it appears this will be nothing short of a public molestation of Florida by Ohio State.

and I'm sure some of those OSU defensive guys are going to love getting the chance to "molest" Chris Leak.

Guys dont discount Florida. As a huge Buckeye fan I remember just a few short years ago when no one gave OSU a shot against another Florida team - Miami. The situations are strikingly simular.

Truly was a god-awful show. All that build-up for nothing. Really bad graphics. Basically a ton of fancy graphics and loud rock music masquerading as something substantive?? As much as I love Barry Alvarez as a coach and AD -- not a great commentator.


Wisconsin fans will be the ones with teeth.

Bucky, people like you are the reason I can't read this website while I'm at work.

My boss just asked me if I was okay 'cuz I was laughing too hard.

OMG, I thought only the WVU guys had to put up with this stuff.

Oh well, I wish I had a good cheesehead comeback but we'll just settle it on the field. Should be a great game.

Rose: Michigan over USC. I don't know what to make of the Jekyl and Hide Trojans any more. They lost to UCLA in a good game, but, lost of lot of respect with me because of their poor sportmanship. When you lose, take it like a man. Why belittle and snub an opponent that out-played you fair and square? If the Trojans play like they did last week, Michigan's defense will control the game and win easily. If the Trojans or Michigan have any hope of a high BCS ranking and championship next year, they will need to win this game.

Sugar: LSU should win this one easily, since Notre Dame's weakness is OL play, something LSU's defense should exploit with ease. But this outcome is far from certain. I can't even begin to describe the bitter disappointment that players and fans alike are feeling right now. They had their hearts set on going to the Rose Bowl. The LSU ticket office pre-sold more than 43,000 Rose Bowl tickets. I don't think fans mind losing the $1 per ticket fee, but many had booked hotels and made travel plans for Los Angeles. Given the choice of experiencing a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity (an SEC team in the Rose Bowl) or driving an hour to New Orleans for the Sugar Bowl (been there, done that), I don't know if the players will be able to get up for a game against Notre Dame, a team most of us do not consider a legitmate BCS team. I don't hink I'v ever seen a team with a secondary that slow and athletically challenged. Personally, I wish we could have played Wisconsin, if not Michigan or USC, but BCS rules don't permit that.

Orange: Wake Forest over Louisville. The Cards are an offensive juggernaut but not very good defensively. The Demon Deacons are not as prolific offensively but have a good defense. In matchups such as these, the better defensive team usually wins. So, Wake Forest should win because they have better balance on both sides of the ball. I don't think the outcome of this game will affect either team's 2007 pre-season ranking much.

Fiesta: Oklahoma over Boise State. Oklahoma is so much better, this game has the potential to be a blow out. But I've only seen Boise State play once this season while I've watched Oklahoma play four times, but as we saw in the USC-UCLA game, the better team doesn't always win. Sometimes, it's simply a game of who wants it more. However, if Boise State wants to receive a top ten BCS ranking next season, and lay the groundwork for an appearance in the 2008 BCS Championship game, they need to take advantage of this golden opportunity and beat OKlahoma convincingly.

Well, somebody didn't travel too well. In this morning's Miami Herald, it said there were "thousands" of empty seats in the upper deck. This was also the first time in 15 years that I saw no fans of either team shopping in the store I work at. Usually we see dozens.

I'm so glad LSU is opening it up against Notre Dame in the second half. I haven't rooted for Notre Dame since they got rid of Ty Willingham. I thought that whole thing was just shady and I root against them every game. I'd still like to get it on with Brady Quinn though, but the program gets a big thumbs down from me.

Three certainties in life:

Death, taxes, and ND getting blasted in a BCS bowl game.......

Blame the ACC and its fan support. Louisville took 40,000 fans to the Orange Bowl. Wake was estimated at bringing 15,000.

The Big East saved the Orange Bowl and Gator Bowl's asses this year. GT and Wake brought a combined 25,000 fans compared to almost 80-85,000 from WVU/Louisville.

41-14...ND EXPOSED yet again. They haven't stepped up to the plate in any of the big games they played. Jamarcus Russell schooled Brady Quinn tonight and the defense allowing over 500 yards of offense is downright disgusting. They should be horsewhipped!! This was obviously a bad BCS matchup and I'm not sure ND even deserved to be in a BCS game. Perhaps Wake Forest should've played ND and Louisville should've played LSU if they were gonna stick ND in a BCS game. All the talk about Brady this and Brady that and Brady's poise and blah blah blah. What big game did they win this year? How many consecutive bowl losses is this for ND. I think its been 5000 days since they've won a bowl game. NO REALLY!!! 5000 DAYS!!!

That's one way to measure it. Here's another I posted on the pick'em thread yesterday:

Now that Troy, South Florida, San Jose State and Central Michigan have won their bowl games 85 teams have combined for 285 Bowl victories since Notre Dame last won a bowl game on 1/1/1994

Western Michigan and The Ohio University still to play.

[Note that ESPN supposedly reports that it's 87 teams.] At any rate -- that's 70% of Division 1 teams.

Not to pile on .. but .. hey ... maybe it will help this Irish b.s. to end:

-- Notre Dame has only three 1st round draft picks in the last 10 years.

-- Is 0-16 in games against teams that finished in the AP top 10.

and a pleasant stroll down memory lane:

1994 hit movies: Forrest Gump and The Lion King
Ace of Base's The Sign was the #1 song
Home Improvement and Murder, She Wrote were in the Top Ten Nielsen ratings

Here's something to ponder. With the International Bowl in Toronto deciding to play its game in January, what exactly does this mean for International Bowl II in January 2008? Since the government is requiring -- beginning Jan. 1, 2008 -- every U.S. citizen traveling to Canada to have a passport, I'm wondering how it could affect the bowl game. Do you think every college football player, coach and fan from the teams selected to participate next year will own a passport or be able to get one between the time bowl invites go out (presumably early December) and the bowl game? I wonder if anyone has thought about this and how it could affect the viability of that bowl.

This is going to be a problem for the Big East next year. There is no way to know which Big East team will be the Big East's 6th place team that will play in Toronto next season. I used my birth certificate to travel to Toronto almost every other weekend to see my boyfriend while at student at Tennesse. Eventually It was necessary to acquire a passport in order to apply for a student-visa and work abroad program.


The Big East and MAC will have to put their heads together on this. Typically Bowls don't select teams until late November. That would leave 5 weeks for players to apply for a passport. The normal time for passports are 4 weeks. If the proccess is around the Holidays/Christmas the norm is closer to 5 to 6 weeks. There are places to expeidate passports.



I just recently did mine for a trip to the Dominican Republic in 2 weeks. The cost was 169.00 for 5 day service. There was a 2 day service for 269.00. The State Department now requires a passport to travel to the Carribean and Mexico effective January 21st 2007.

I wonder if the State Department will grant waivers for special crimcumstances? For instance, when Notre Dame played Navy in Dublin, Ireland back in the early 1990's, did all the Navy and Notre Dame player have to get a passport to travel to Ireland? Navy's players most likely didn't need passports as their military ID's and travel documents were sufficent. I'd be curious to see how Notre Dame handled the situation. That might assist the Big East in determing what the course of action should be.

It will be interesting to see what sort of crowd this years International Bowl will get. One report said they are 'hoping for' 20,000 - 25,000. As for next year there still is a lot of discussion between the US and Canada to address the passport requirement problem. There is talk of coming up with some other cheaper document that would be easier and quicker to get otherwise local cross border tourism and industries that depend on tourism will be very badly hurt. There already is lots of confusion that is already having a big negative impact on cross border tourism with the numbers of visits by Anericans already way down this past summer. And people are already worried about what the further negative impact will be with it being mandatory to have a passports when flying between the two countries in two weeks time as of January 23 THIS YEAR. Talk up here is that the passport requirement for land crossings will be further delayed until June 2009, which will give both governments more time to look into Passport alternatives and to get a better handle on the negative impact enforcing the regulation will have on so many people and businesses.

Just from a sports perspective in this area the potential negative impact could be quite large. Upwards of 10,000 - 20,000 Canadians can attend Buffalo Bills home games and as many as 5,000 Canadians are at Buffalo Sabres home games. The Bills already did not come close to selling out 3 of their home games this year. Anything to erode their Canadian fan base won't help. Similarly when the Yankees, Tigers or Red Sox play up here against the Blue Jays, as many as 10,000 or more fans can come up from the States for weekend series. A passport requirement will undoubtedly hurt thsoe numbers.

I'm actually going to the International Bowl tomorrow. I guess I'll cheer for the underdog Western Michigan Broncos to try to stop that Big East Bowl juggernaut. Organizers are being very hush, hush about what sort of crowd they are expecting. The game has received very little promotion locally. I think I only saw one ad for the game and very little coverage about it in the sports media. I read today that hundreds of tickets have been given away locally or sold at greatly reduced rates. Apparently 10,000 tickets were set aside for each school but there has been no word how many of those are actually being used by each school. We bought tickets about 3 weeks ago for $25.00 and then just last week one of my friends who is a Toronto Argos (CFL) season ticket holder got a promotional email from the Argos offering tickets in the same section for just $5.00 each. So I guess we bought too soon.

Toronto native John Saunders (a Western Michigan grad), returns to the city with former Argos quarterback Doug Flutie and Craig James to do the play by play on ESPN2 and TSN up here. The first article I've seen about the game in the Toronto Star appeared today and it basically questions the financial viability of the event and wonders how much ESPN is paying for the TV rights to the game. Another point the article in the Star makes is that it was not so much that Toronto wanted this game but that the MAC and Big East wanting another Bowl Game for their teams to go to and Toronto had the closest dome stadium. Here is a link to that story.

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/168157

Notre Dame is a good football team; just not a BCS team. They just don't have the depth, speed, or athleticism to match up against a top ten team. But those guys played their hearts out against LSU. I think the reason Quinn looked so bad in the second half is because he knew his team was over-matched. He's a very smart QB, reads defenses well, and knows what to do. Problem is, his O-line can't protect him long enough to take advantage of his smarts. Plus, his receivers aren't very fast, aren't very physical, and have to rely on perfectly thrown balls, timing routes, and trickeration to get open. Quinn is asked to do too much against the nation's best college teams. If he had faster receivers and a brusing running back, ND would be a much better football team and his job would be made much easier..

It was sorta sad watching LSU beat up on the ND secondary in the second half, and even sadder to watch a ND meltdown. But I watched the LSU/ND game closely. Brady Quinn sees what's going on; he knows football. It must be frustrating to recognize blitzes, know where to put the ball, and not have the receiver and/or O-line personnel to take advantage. He will be a terrific QB in the NFL where he will be surrounded by superior talent, even in Oakland. But as a huge LSU fan, I'm still glad they kicked ND's ass.

It is odd that any team could lose that many bowl games though. You'd think they'd get lucky (a bunch of turnovers by their opponent, key injuries to their opponents, etc), in at least one of them, but they fall behind so quickly, these things probably wouldn't even affect the outcome.

In large part, they lose all these bowl games because they are too financially attractive for their own good, so they wind up with opponents that are out of their league. Similarly, the Big East won all their bowl games this year in large part because they had such lousy tie-ins that their opponents were overmatched.

So, the Big East overmatched their opponents in

The ACC Champ in the Orange Bowl
The ACC Runner up in the Gator Bowl
A 8-4 Big 12 team in Kansas State( who beat Texas) in the Texas Bowl?



Granted USF and Cincy played non-BCS teams, but all BCS conferences have bowl tie ins with non-BCS teams. The Big East only has 8 teams, so it only has 5 bowl tie ins. That will improve to 6 next year with the Tire Bowl against an ACC team.

The BE"s top 3 teams beat very good to good teams. USF and Cincy beat good non-bcs teams. This was more a reflection of how damn good BE teams were this year instead of how overmatched BE opponents were.

Umm...you've been talking all year about how bad the ACC was all year. Realistically, the Big East teams were all much higher ranked and were favored in all of those match ups. They had one BCS bowl, in which they were matched against the weakest conference champ. I'll grant that the Gator Bowl is normally a good bowl, but Georgia Tech wasn't that good. The top 2 in the ACC would lose to the top 2 in the WAC. And KSU beat Texas but was thoroughly mediocre the rest of the time.-just 4-4 in their conference, so it would have been pretty embarrassing had they beaten a team that came within a triple overtime game of winning the Big East.

So we learned from the Bowl Season that the Big East was definitely better than the ACC and that middle of the pack Big East teams were better than runners up in the weaker non-BCS conferences, which is to be expected. Rutgers over KSU doesn't tell us much about the state of the Big East vs the Big 12--we'd need to see RU against Texas or Nebraska to make that judgement.

I would venture to say Oklahoma and Wake Forest were the two weakest conference champs. The Big 12 proved to be very bad this year. ( like the ACC) Louisville and WVU was by far better than anyBig 12 team this year. Rutgers is probably on par with Texas and Oklahoma.


Also, regarding your assertion the WAC's top 2 teams would beat the ACC's top 2 teams ( Wake and GT), I would disagree. The WAC's 2nd best team - Hawaii lost the SEC's 9th best team this year- Alabama. If the game were played in Hawaii, I would venture to say it would be EVEN. If the game is played on the Mainland, Georgia Tech is a 10-14 point favorite.


1. SEC
2. Big 10/Big East
4. Pac-10
5. Big 12/ACC
7. WAC/MWC

When Hawaii lost in Tuscaloosa to Alabama, it was the very first week of the season and Bama won by 8 points, 25-17. Colt Brennan improved tremendously as the season went along. If that game were played now, Hawaii would win by double digits. And I have no doubt Hawaii would beat Georgia Tech. Just like I told you Boise State would beat Oklahoma.



Oh, 'Neer... please tell me you weren't serious about that one. Western Michigan a good non-BCS team? You're kidding, right? WMU is two years removed from a winless campaign (0-10) vs. I-A opponents. They went winless in the Mid-American Conference (and that's incredibly hard to do). They did, however, get a victory over I-AA UT Martin that year. Prior to today, Western Michigan had been in one bowl game in the last forty-five years! That's a good program? Wow. And Cincy beat them by only 3 when WMU missed a late field goal to tie.

I'd say it's a toss up on an open field. The Bama game was very early in the season. Hawaii lost by just a touchdown at Boise St, and destroyed Arizona St. I'm just not that impressed by Georgia Tech. If we're going to compare Georgia Tech to the SEC, they lost to the 6th best team in the SEC and got pounded by Clemson (which lost to the 8th best team in the SEC). Really, their only good win was Virginia Tech. I guess Maryland was ok, too.

Earlier you called Kansas State good. How can a team that's 4-4 in a "very bad" conference be considered good, let alone a worthy opponent for a top 20 team?

Well he called Western Michigan good too, so Kansas State does look good compared to them.

I called Western Michigan a good NON BCS team. Just like Nevada, San Jose State, and Hawaii are good NON BCS teams. At least put my comments in the proper context , ok ?


Hawaii lost to Oregon State at home as well losing to SEC Alabama team who ended the season with a losing record. Also, a very average Arizona State was leading Hawaii at halftime. The score of the game was 27-24 with 5:00 left in the game before Hawaii scored 2 touchdowns to end the game. That's hardlya result that warrants chest pounding as a "blow out".


WAC's record against BCS teams this year was 6-14. The ACC didn't fare much better with a 5-16 record. The Big 12 wasn't much better going 5-14. Of course, the Big East was the best in college football with a 15-7 record against BCS teams. Also, it was the only BCS conference not to lose to a non-BCS team and finish with a spectacular 38-7 OOC record overall.

Good thing I am around to debunk some of this fantasy by injecting much needed reality into the topic .

Well, from the outside, the only Big East teams that interest me are WVU and Louisville. I know Rutgers had a good season, but the jury's still out of that team..for me, at least. I'm just not into the one-hit-wonder story line. Let's see how they do over the next couple seasons. I also watched USF and Cincy play a couple times this season and despite their play, both teams have glaring weaknesses at QB, O-lne, and in the secondary; something a heady and opportunistic coach like Pete Carroll (for example) would easily recognize and readily exploit.

Having said that, fans of the Big East should be proud. It's hard to win all your bowl games, even if you're supposed too. But JC's right about the ACC. As a conference, they play old school football and lack imagination on the offensive side of the ball. Except for GT's Reggie Ball, the ACC has very few exciting and watchable players. I'm not surprised they peformed so poorly in the bowl season. I'd rather watch a go-for-broke Hawaii team any day.

Obviously, mathematics is not your strong point. 6-14 is BETTER than 5-16 or 5-14.

Mountaineer has never let facts or logic get in his way!

Facts and logic are the reason I'll win this debate. That's why JC and you are now avoiding facts. I guess that comes with being a supporter of WAC fotball by focusing on one WIN and sweep the many other OOC losses under College Football's rug and pretend they didn't happen.
Don't be mad Rob. Your boys finally proved they could beat a top 20 OOC team. If I were a WAC fan, I would make this game my rallying cry too.... " The Little Engine that could".

Good Stuff!

College Football's Conference RPI

Here's a good indication of where each conference stacks up. Not that we should allow "facts & logic" to become an integral part of the this debate.



1 Big East 60.56 55.28 3 8
2 Southeastern 60.15 55.58 2 12
3 Big Ten 57.22 54.33 4 11
4 Pacific-10 56.52 56.27 1 10
5 Big 12 54.44 52.67 6 12
6 Atlantic Coast 53.99 53.64 5 12
7 Independents 53.93 49.97 7 3
8 Western Athletic 49.48 48.98 9 9
9 Mountain West 49.31 49.52 8 9
10 Conference USA 47.28 48.75 10 12
11 Mid-American 43.93 46.88 11 13

First of all, I never said the WAC was better than the ACC over all. I said the top 2 teams were better; the WAC has a number of really terrible teams that bring down its average. But by any logic that I'm familiar with 6-14 is still better than 5-16, not that the out-of-conference win-loss record by itself (or the RPI for that matter) are all that meaningful.

If we're going to consider computer rankings to be "factual and logical", chew on this: the Massey College Football Ranking Comparison which averages a whole bunch of different rankings from all kinds of sources came up with Hawaii at #31, Georgia Tech at #33 (and that's before their bowl performances). 10-14 point favorites on a neutral field? The other Big East rankings: Louisville 5 Wake Forest 20, West Virginia 10,
Rutgers 17 Kansas State 57, South Florida 38 East Carolina 60, Cincinatti 36 Western Michigan 64. So the big East should have been favored in all five match-ups.

Just for the record, I actually think the big east was a solid top 4 conference this year. I just don't think the bowl season told us anything we didn't already know. The only thing that gave any of the match-ups any spice was the injuries to WV. Compare the big 10 bowls. Most teams got match-ups that were close enough to be revealing, and we learned that Penn State was probably underrated but the teams below it in the Big 10 were as bad as we thought, that Michigan may have been overrated, and Wisconsin was very good. Of course, Wisconsin had a high ranking already, but some people were skeptical because of their schedule. Wouldn't you have rather seen, say, Louisville vs LSU, West Virginia vs Arkansas, Rutgers vs Tennessee? That's what we needed to learn how good the Big East really was.

Michigan might have been overrated?

I would have loved to have seen WVU play the Hogs and Rutgers play in a bowl that more than a handful of people got to see but with the bowl tie-ins, the perceived weaker conferences like the BE are going to get shafted in the bowl selection process because they don't have the clout to get good bowl games

I would have loved to have seen Rutgers go to Charlotte for the Tire Bowl (or whatever the name of it is this year) but they took Navy instead

WTF for?