That really does sum it up,perfectly.Bravo!

Thanks for the info. The dog fights I saw growing up weren't to the death. I guess that makes a difference in my perception. I understand that it's kind of like an extension of men having nice cars or bragging about how big their penis is but I think my issue comes from the question of the human/animal split and all of that stuff. When I eat meat I'd rather kill my own chicken but I don't live on a farm and KFC is really tasty.

Similarly, if we showed the same outrage about human rights as animal rights I feel like I'd care more about these types of issues. To me a child soldier in the Congo trained to kill people or a child being worked to death in a Chinese sweatshop so we can buy cheap goods in the USA are owed the same responsibility of being raised in a healthy and productive way. I have witnessed PETA activists freak out about fur but ignore homeless people begging for food in NYC. I guess to an extent we are all screwed, but that's just my two cents.

Jay,
First of all I'm very shocked that you ever watched dog fights.Secondly,just because we are discussing this issue doesn't mean we are any less concerned about the atrocious situation in the Congo.Unfortunately we don't have much power to affect what's going on in the Congo.Regarding Michael Vick,there has been the threat of a massive "Nike" boycott since they use him to endorse their product.Interesting to see how that plays out.

Nike suspends Vick and pulls all merchandise from shelves.

I don't think the Falcon's fans will share your enthusiasm!

In terms of being "very shocked" Eddie, I am not sure what space that comes from. I think people are complicated and there is no zero sum in terms of opinion or a way of life. I have an Ivy league degree but many of my friends growing up were drug dealers and gang bangers. Many of my friends now are homeless and/or male prostitutes. People are who they are when they are there.

Maybe I am alone on this one, but as a teenager, guys with dogs often wanted them to fight each other because it was an extension of your reputation. Many times it wasn't planned, it would just happen if you were out with your dog and ran into someone else. Similar things happened when you learned about sex while watching two dogs do it and sometimes the male dog would force himself onto the female. I didn't think of it as dog rape, it was just a part of life. At the end of the day though, as much as I love my recently passed Star, she was a dog and human life is more valuable and important to me. I don't love her any less, but she was a dog and the unconditional love that was her gift to me is something that I should offer in my relationships with other people or at least try to. While I respect your opinion of local versus global control in terms of boycotts, etc. It's funny to me that you talk about boycotting Nike over Vick when they have had a long history of participating in human rights violations in order to make tennis shoes for 5 cents and then sell them for 120 dollars. People take their dogs on vacations and buy them luxury sweaters and gourmet food while people are starving...where I'm from some people put a stick in the ground and threw kibble on it and the dog lived in the backyard and never saw the inside of the house. That wasn't my dog, but it happens. I just think there's a range of opinion.

I can only speak for myself but I can assure you that I have never owned a $120 pair of gym shoes or ever felt the need to.I'm pretty sure that I have never had anything made by Nike but I can't swear to that.As far as boycotts are concerned,I believe there are a lot of people who have been boycotting Nike all along for the reasons you had mentioned.I think the dog fighting thing got so much publicity because of Michael Vick's fame.As someone who has grown up in southwest Detroit (and still lives there ),I'm sorry but there is no excuse for people fighting each other or using their dogs to fight.Just because I find this whole situation repulsive does not mean that I am putting an animal's life above a humans.One of the greatest things about animals,especially cats and dogs,is their unconditional devotion.It's too bad more people don't appreciate that.

Oh, Ohhhhh! The birds are gonna start churping like crazy. This must not be good news for Mr. Dick, er I mean Mr. Vick.

this reporter is speaking to the issues i have with this whole thing


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/foot...o.ap/index.html

That reporter's clearly an idiot. I can't figure out how he's speaking to your issues.

Here's an appropriate pix...Too bad Mr. Dick wasn't in the jersey.

That's a great pic SC!

Loved the NAACP coming out this week declaring that Vick is innocent until proven guitly and he mustn't be condemned until all the facts are in. When a reporter asked about their immediate stance against the Duke lacrosse players, the head of the group said that they'd learned their lesson from that case. Apparently they didn't learn their lesson from the Tawan Brawley fiasco. Morons.

And now we have the Southern Christian Leadership Conference planning to honor Michael Vick at their annual convention. Nice.



Barack Obama and Bill Clinton are both scheduled to address the convention. Wonder if there will be any backlash?

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/atla...ksclc_0804.html

Granted the NAACP should have taken the same stance against the Duke Lacrosse players as they should be doing with Michael Vick, but as a member of the NAACP I take offense to you referring to them as "morons" That organization does a lot of other things beside hold press conferences surrounding high profile situations. Its sort of like Johnnie Cochran being remembered in his career for defending OJ Simpson when the man did many other things throughout his career that are far more noteworthy and uplifting. The Duke and Tawana Brawley incident are not things that define the organization. Like any organization, they have flaws and make mistakes. But, you call them morons and you call me one so perhaps you should think about what you say before you speak cuz that sounded really ignorant. The same goes for the SCLC.

This is cute:

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=195872

Well at least the SCLC came to their senses and will not honor Vick.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/f...honor_0807.html

Too f'n funny!!!

ESPN reports that Vick is considering a plea bargain now that the other two co-defendants are copping pleas. A source tells ESPN that if Vick doesn't plea bargain, the feds will file a superseding indictment which would include additional charges against him.

Joe, last night on the news they had a blurb about this, saying that Vick and his lawyer were telling the feds that any plea agreement would have to guarantee that Vick would spend at most "less than a year in jail."

If I were the Feds, I'd say, "Uh, no thanks. We've got you big time, and you're not going to dictate to us the conditions of your penalty."

I think that any plea deal that Vick signs in which he admits to killing dogs will get him banned from the NFL for life. The AAFL is probably watching with baited breath.

Except Vick can't play in the AAFL ..... that whole graduating thing.

Very good point Blue. I've also heard it won't be the dead dogs that keep Vick out of the NFL. It'll be the racketeering charge. The NFL has very strict guidelines about gambling of any kind and that will be the easiest way for Goddell to get the lifetime ban. I really can't see Vick playing in another NFL game.

That wasn't "Blue" who said that.

Mike's problems just got worse.

Mike doesn't have any problem from that. The same guy has filed a suit for $2 million against Barry Bonds and Bud Selig, claiming they are in a conspiracy to drive baseball ratings higher. He claims that Selig supplied Bonds and others wityh steroids, that Bonds uses Hank Aaron's corked bat (which he says has secret compartments in it where Barry stores his HGH), that Bonds bench pressed him in front of his teammates and that Bonds sold steroids to nuns.

The guy either is really funny or totally insane. I'm going with the latter.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...071riches1.html

TY Eddie! Sorry about that Bolt!

Silly Georgie, I was being facetious, hence my smilie.

As long as Vick still has the ability to play pro football, he will get the opportunity to suit up once again. All it takes is one owner/gm/coach who is willing to take a risk on the guy.

I mean, If Mike Tyson still had the chance to resume his career after his prison term was up, why can't Vick(assuming he does go to prison)?

Well...we have seen it coming for the past few days now. But, its official that Michael Vick WILL plead guilty to dogfighting charges. He's only doing this because his thug accomplices have turned state's evidence and he knows that the case against him will be rock solid. Bastard! I hope he gets the full maximum penalty and I hope someone slams his ass against the ground when he's serving his time! UGH!!!

There's no way he'll get anywhere near the maximum sentence. It's his first offense and it's a plea deal. It's not like he went through the trial and was found guilty. But if he gets about a year or so, that's pretty significant. And from what I understand, in federal cases you get very little time off for good behavior so whatever his sentence is, he'll serve most of it.

Go to jail, Ron Mexico. Go directly to jail. Do not pass "Go." Do not collect $200.

The penalty is NOT nearly severe enough! A $250,000.00 fine is chump change to him.What a dispicable group of thugs!

The NFL says in a statement:



So this obviously means Vick lied to the NFL, correct? That alone should be grounds for a suspension or worse. Add this to the criminal charges to which he's now pleading guilty and this guy should be toast.

I found it interesting that the gambling allegations mentioned in the indictment and discussed by those who agreed to testify are supposedly enough to warrant a lifetime ban from the NFL under its personal conduct policy.

Personally, I believe that Vick should never again be allowed to play in an NFL game. Period.

Don't forget that the state of Virginia is also bringing charges against Vick. The maximum penalties for all he's been charged with could total 40 years. I'm not sure how federal vs. state sentencing works out, but even concurrently he could be behind bars for a while if his plea deal with the state of Virginia isn't generous in his favor.

Now that he's pleaded guilty, I'd like to know who else in the league is involved in dogfighting, cockfighting, and any other sports that involve cruelty to animals. I know Peyton Manning loves to kill deer, but that seems not to register on PETA's or anyone else's radars in the US.

I guess shooting Bambi isn't that important. Then again, who'd want to come down hard on good old boy, cutesie wittle ole Peyton Manning, he of the Super Bowl Champion Indianapolis Colts?

I had forgotten about the Virginia state charges, fantomas. Has he been indicted by the commonwealth yet or is the investigation still ongoing?

I'm sure PETA is against hunting deer, but unlike dogfighting, it's legal and if they tried going after it they'd be destroyed by the NRA.

Somewhere (TV, radio, newspaper? I forget) I picked up on an intriguing idea: assuming Michael Vick isn't permanently banned and assuming there's a team willing to risk signing him, he could return to the NFL not to play quarterback, but to play wide receiver.

I've heard interview clips from some of Vick's teammates, and was disappointed that all of them are supportive of him ("he's still part of the Falcons' family" blah-blah). Not a word of condemnation for Vick's despicable actions, even though there is supposedly no "gag order" imposed on the players. Furthermore, his fellow dog-abuser Jonathan Babineaux, who killed his girlfriend's dog last year, is apparently is back at the Falcons' training camp.

Just when you thought athletes couldn't possibly get any dumber...

Knicks' Marbury: dogfighting is a sport

Report: Vick won't admit to killing dogs or gambling in his plea agreement.

That should give ESPN another 4 hours of speculation programming today.

Is it me, or does it seem like he got a little privileged treatment by the Feds when they decided to go along with such a plea that doesn't contain such admissions?

Here's what it says:



So he's saying he didn't kill dogs but he helped the others to kill dogs. There's really no difference.

I don't know what the league will think of his bankrolling the gambling, even if he didn't actually place bets or share in the proceeds.

Meanwhile, someone must have gotten to the outspoken Stephon Marbury.

So is he saying that the only thing he got out of all this was the thrill of watching this abomination?!That makes him even more of a sick f*cker.

It was just announced that the NFL has suspended Vick "indefinitely."

A lifetime ban would have been more appropriate.

That's basically the same thing. Vick will serve his time and then if the commissioner allows it, he can ask for a meeting to discuss reinstatement.

This isn't specifically about Vick, but on a related note...I was shocked to hear on one of my local radio stations this week that 20% of NFL players have criminal records. I know the league has its share of bad apples, but I had no idea there were so many. Unfortunately I can't find a reliable source on the Web to back this up. Has anyone else heard this? How does that figure compare with other professional sports? If it's true, the NFL ought to be concerned about these "role models". Considering the huge salaries these guys make, I guess crime really does pay. In my field of work, and a great many others I'm sure, a criminal record would preclude or greatly reduce any chance of getting hired, but apparently this is not the case in the NFL.

I haven't heard that. That seems extremely inflated.

Really. That's a number I'd think applied to the NBA, not the NFL. Then again, that figure's probably actually much higher in the NBA.

10:19 eastern time-Michael Vick arrives at the Federal courthouse in Richmond, Virginia. On his way in to the courthouse, a small crying child is holding a beagle puppy and Vick cradles the child in his arms and proceeds to snap the puppy's neck. Stay tuned for further updates as this story develops.

10:32 am eastern time: Walking the hallways of the courthouse, Vick and his attorneys pass a blind man with his seeing eye dog. Vick graciously extends his arm to assist the man into the men's room where he proceeds to drown the dog in the toliet. Stay tuned....

11:01 am-On their way from the proceedings, Vick's entourage decides to visit an ASPCA shelter where many of the dogs orphaned during Hurrican Katrina are been housed. Moments after leaving the shelter, the building is engulfed in flames, killing at least 137 dogs.

11:35 am-Michael Vick makes his first statement since pleading guilty. He apologized to Arthur Blank, his teammates, Commissioner Goodell, the fans and all the young kids for his immature acts. He asked for forgiveness and understanding and accepted full responsibilty for his actions. "Dog fighting is a terrible thing and I reject it", he said. And he also said he, as a result of this situation, he has found Jesus.

11:37 am-The Associated Press reports that Jesus is actually a 3 month old pit bull.