1st North American OutGames
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I received an e-mail newsletter from them this week. Western Cup sports tournament: Badminton, Bowling, Curling, Ice Hockey, Running, Swimming, Volleyball. Nice to see that Tourism Calgary is one of the sponsors. Still wondering how a big gay event will go over in Calgary, but who knows, maybe they've gone all Brokeback out there.
1st North American OutGames
1st North American OutGames
There are also two big volleyball tournaments that run the same week, and the week after:
Houston: http://www.lsva.org/
Louisville: http://www.lavaball.org/
New York: http://www.bigapplevolleyball.org/
...and for bowling tournaments, big competition from:
Atlanta: http://www.igbo.org/tournaments/Tournament...l.cfm?TID=DIXIE
Kansas City: http://www.igbo.org/tournaments/Tournament...l.cfm?TID=MAKIT
..a week later
NY/NJ: http://www.igbo.org/tournaments/Tournament....cfm?TID=GOTHAM
Most of these tournaments are well established and have been around for quite some time. Not to mention half the cost to enter.
Houston: http://www.lsva.org/
Louisville: http://www.lavaball.org/
New York: http://www.bigapplevolleyball.org/
...and for bowling tournaments, big competition from:
Atlanta: http://www.igbo.org/tournaments/Tournament...l.cfm?TID=DIXIE
Kansas City: http://www.igbo.org/tournaments/Tournament...l.cfm?TID=MAKIT
..a week later
NY/NJ: http://www.igbo.org/tournaments/Tournament....cfm?TID=GOTHAM
Most of these tournaments are well established and have been around for quite some time. Not to mention half the cost to enter.
Ironically, there is also a volleyball tournament in Montreal. Also, one of the U.S. largest spring softball tournaments is that weekend in Birmingham, Alabama. As we know, many LGBT athletes are multi-sportos.
This was being discussed on the other thread before the topic died down somewhat. I suppose making a new thread just for this event makes sense, though the cynic in me wonders if it's just an attempt to avoid dealing with the topics raised earlier. Canmark doesn't seem that type, though, so I've linked the most recent posts on the topic here.
For reference:
Post One
Post Two
Post Three
I think it's just plain sad. This event by all reports has been a very successful one for years and this year they could have that reputation tarnished by the GLISA linkage.
This was being discussed on the other thread before the topic died down somewhat. I suppose making a new thread just for this event makes sense, though the cynic in me wonders if it's just an attempt to avoid dealing with the topics raised earlier. Canmark doesn't seem that type, though, so I've linked the most recent posts on the topic here.
For reference:
Post One
Post Two
Post Three
I think it's just plain sad. This event by all reports has been a very successful one for years and this year they could have that reputation tarnished by the GLISA linkage.
The Western Cup has been around for YEARS (like 20 or 25) and has obviously held its own. Equally obviously, they have chosen to co-brand with the 1st North American Outgames.
Again, obviously, there are a few people wanting to import sour grapes from other threads. Montreal did its thing, whatever anyone feels about it. Calgary is a different organising city, with its own people, budget, and plans.
Can't you people just be happy that there are a growing number of gay sports events to attend?
Again, obviously, there are a few people wanting to import sour grapes from other threads. Montreal did its thing, whatever anyone feels about it. Calgary is a different organising city, with its own people, budget, and plans.
Can't you people just be happy that there are a growing number of gay sports events to attend?
Chuck,
You are being absurd and simply continuing the rhetoric you used in regards to the games in Montreal.
Of course you have always said that an evaluation could be carried out after the event was completed but the event came and went and no evaluation or even a peep out of you in regards to a loss of C$5.5 MILLION.
You then refer to Calgary as being around for a number of years (25 is correct I believe) and ask everyone to be happy that there are new events. This is not a new event and the concern is not that there are too many events, it is that this one has the same big dreams that Montreal had and it could threaten the existence and success of an event that has been around for 25 years.
The multiplicity of events will take care of themselves as the market gets rid of the least successful events. That would be a shame as we need events in the small markets because ours is a social message, not an econimic message.
The viability of the Calgary event is important and I don't care if they call it the 2nd World OutGames or anything. I care that they are successful.
The questions that others have asked and information posted would lead to success if taken seriously.
I was speaking with a friend from Toronto on the weekend and we agreed that we both felt that the Chair of the OutEvent (I forget the over riding name as I am nore into Games ) is a good man with the best of intentions. We could only hope that he has done his homework. There are many people that simply take potshots at worker bees - you for instance - and it hampers the dilligence required to get the job done. The real questions never get answered while you spout off about letting it happen.
I wish it was that simple.
From what I can tell, in our city, there are only 4 people that would stand for Board status with Team Vancouver. When I was last on the Board there were 11 people and 6 other people resigned in quick succession befor eI finally had to throw in the towel because the remining Board Members would not face reality and organize events and tasks that we actually had resources to complete. They always dreamed that a swarm of other unnamed people would come in and complete their wishes. I believe that never happenned. The result is a decimated Board of Directors for Team Vancouver.
What we need is work horses and not people that simply want to pad their resumes or appear to be important.
Bottom line is that these events need to be successful in every way, not just on the field or court etc.
They need to be accountable and answer the tough questions along the way and have a good open process with ALL of the stakeholders. Only then will we truly achieve successful events!
Ken
You are being absurd and simply continuing the rhetoric you used in regards to the games in Montreal.
Of course you have always said that an evaluation could be carried out after the event was completed but the event came and went and no evaluation or even a peep out of you in regards to a loss of C$5.5 MILLION.
You then refer to Calgary as being around for a number of years (25 is correct I believe) and ask everyone to be happy that there are new events. This is not a new event and the concern is not that there are too many events, it is that this one has the same big dreams that Montreal had and it could threaten the existence and success of an event that has been around for 25 years.
The multiplicity of events will take care of themselves as the market gets rid of the least successful events. That would be a shame as we need events in the small markets because ours is a social message, not an econimic message.
The viability of the Calgary event is important and I don't care if they call it the 2nd World OutGames or anything. I care that they are successful.
The questions that others have asked and information posted would lead to success if taken seriously.
I was speaking with a friend from Toronto on the weekend and we agreed that we both felt that the Chair of the OutEvent (I forget the over riding name as I am nore into Games ) is a good man with the best of intentions. We could only hope that he has done his homework. There are many people that simply take potshots at worker bees - you for instance - and it hampers the dilligence required to get the job done. The real questions never get answered while you spout off about letting it happen.
I wish it was that simple.
From what I can tell, in our city, there are only 4 people that would stand for Board status with Team Vancouver. When I was last on the Board there were 11 people and 6 other people resigned in quick succession befor eI finally had to throw in the towel because the remining Board Members would not face reality and organize events and tasks that we actually had resources to complete. They always dreamed that a swarm of other unnamed people would come in and complete their wishes. I believe that never happenned. The result is a decimated Board of Directors for Team Vancouver.
What we need is work horses and not people that simply want to pad their resumes or appear to be important.
Bottom line is that these events need to be successful in every way, not just on the field or court etc.
They need to be accountable and answer the tough questions along the way and have a good open process with ALL of the stakeholders. Only then will we truly achieve successful events!
Ken
QUOTE(chuckvanc @ Feb 1 2007, 07:28 PM) 
The Western Cup has been around for YEARS (like 20 or 25) and has obviously held its own. Equally obviously, they have chosen to co-brand with the 1st North American Outgames.
Again, obviously, there are a few people wanting to import sour grapes from other threads. Montreal did its thing, whatever anyone feels about it. Calgary is a different organising city, with its own people, budget, and plans.
Can't you people just be happy that there are a growing number of gay sports events to attend?
Oy here we go. It is not sour grapes for those who have experience and knowledge to point out that the rebranding of the Western Cup with the "OutGames" moniker seems to be coming with a diversion from sports to parties and civil rights events, with steep price increases and a tourism body that is already exaggerating the impact. The whole purpose of "rebranding" or "cobranding" is to appropriate the benefits of the new brand onto the existing event. I think the point being made here is that 1) the co-brand comes with excess baggage, and 2) the cobranding in this case has already resulted in an event plan that risks its health by rebranding, repricing, and refocusing on elements extraneous to sports.
Ken made the point I was going to make about this not being a new event and so not really a representation of "growing number of gay sports events." I think a growing number of events is a very good idea but I don't think these should be done on the EuroGames or OutGames model in North America, nor done in a way that risks the health of the existing events. I've already offered several ideas on how to expand the size and scope of existing events, support development and growth of new sports and organizational bodies, and how to expand participation and events. To me, the GLISA/Montreal/OutGames approach is not the best strategy and the credibility of the people who are exporting this model has been lost.
I still hope that Calgary will drop their registration rates and make the Party Pac an option. If they do then they will be offering a reasonably priced 7 sport event - expanded from the previous Western Cups which in previous years had always offered 4-5 sports. I think that is good news, particularly for the swimmers, runners and hockey players, as they now have an additional event that they can take part in. Plus they get to take part in all the fun of Western Cup, which is probably the most popular annual gay and lesbian sport event in Canada. I somehow doubt the organizers would have added the extra sports were it not for the affiliation with GLISA and the additional exposure they hoped that would give them. And they almost certainly would not have partnered with other GLBT community organizations in Calgary to include cultural activities and a Rights Conference.
Calgary people promoting their event certainly had a very visible presence in Montreal which at the time I thought boded very well for the success of their event, because at the time the buzz was so positive in Montreal. I'm sure like all of us, they wish they were not saddled (pun intended Calgary), with Montreal's financial debacle as an albatross around their neck, but as Calgary people have made a point of telling me a few times over the last month or so - they are a completely different organizing group with a completely different financial model. I still disagree with them about the high price point and hope they will see the light and drop those rates. But the people running the event are the same people who have run Western Cups in the past - with its very successful 25 year history - so I'll trust their judgement that they know what they are doing with their event - and I'll assume they will make changes if they need to to ensure success. At least that is what I hope because I want them to be successful.
And to quote Ken - 'ours is a social message' and I think the expanded program of the North American Outgames - with the cultural festival and conference being added to the Sports program, is an incredibly positive way to broaden that social message by leaps and bounds. I suspect that by having a keynote speaker like Judy Shepard - Executive Director of the Matthew Shephard Foundation - and mother of Matthew - I suspect that 'our social message' will get much greater exposure than were this just another weekend tournament.
Calgary people promoting their event certainly had a very visible presence in Montreal which at the time I thought boded very well for the success of their event, because at the time the buzz was so positive in Montreal. I'm sure like all of us, they wish they were not saddled (pun intended Calgary), with Montreal's financial debacle as an albatross around their neck, but as Calgary people have made a point of telling me a few times over the last month or so - they are a completely different organizing group with a completely different financial model. I still disagree with them about the high price point and hope they will see the light and drop those rates. But the people running the event are the same people who have run Western Cups in the past - with its very successful 25 year history - so I'll trust their judgement that they know what they are doing with their event - and I'll assume they will make changes if they need to to ensure success. At least that is what I hope because I want them to be successful.
And to quote Ken - 'ours is a social message' and I think the expanded program of the North American Outgames - with the cultural festival and conference being added to the Sports program, is an incredibly positive way to broaden that social message by leaps and bounds. I suspect that by having a keynote speaker like Judy Shepard - Executive Director of the Matthew Shephard Foundation - and mother of Matthew - I suspect that 'our social message' will get much greater exposure than were this just another weekend tournament.
Pat,
I am frightened when I see that we are closer to agreeing than disagreeing!!!
Actually I am not disagreeing with you when I point out that the thought pattern you have mentioned in the following quote -
"but as Calgary people have made a point of telling me a few times over the last month or so - they are a completely different organizing group with a completely different financial model."
This rationale has been used by the Gay Games folks in the cities that lost money as well as our friends in Montreal. Basically what it tells me is that due to their competence, they have a plan that will be successful in spite of the knowledge/experiences of others that went down the same path. Is it a surprise that noe of those folks have done a second event?
I would suggest that the current guru of event management in the GLBT world has to be our very own Kevin Boyer. For these folks to not at least entertain his suggestions will work against them. For them to accept the advice of the likes of Thomas Dolan, Catherine Mead and Rachel Corbett is to follow the lead of the folks that stood by and watched Montreal burn. It just doesn't make sense.
I'll even go as far to say that I know many of the folks in Calgary and on any given day would consider them to be very competent. On this day I think the competency scale has been shaved back by their inability to learn from their peers. Their outstanding belief in themselves is certainly a component of successful people but it is also a component of people that fail.
The questions for me is simply risk vs. reward.
I think Pat is correct in regards to the price point as the Curling event here in Vancouver showed a lot of people balking at the idea of paying so much more for no increase in quality or quantity of events. If you are involved in a sport, you have precious little time to attend anything else and by paying more money, you are, in effect, subsidizing the other events.
It should be noted that the OutGames Foundation or whatever they called themselves is a totally new organization that has been able to convince existing organizations to fall in line under their umbrella.
My hope is that those organizations will continue to function if the umbrella fails.
Ken
I am frightened when I see that we are closer to agreeing than disagreeing!!!
Actually I am not disagreeing with you when I point out that the thought pattern you have mentioned in the following quote -
"but as Calgary people have made a point of telling me a few times over the last month or so - they are a completely different organizing group with a completely different financial model."
This rationale has been used by the Gay Games folks in the cities that lost money as well as our friends in Montreal. Basically what it tells me is that due to their competence, they have a plan that will be successful in spite of the knowledge/experiences of others that went down the same path. Is it a surprise that noe of those folks have done a second event?
I would suggest that the current guru of event management in the GLBT world has to be our very own Kevin Boyer. For these folks to not at least entertain his suggestions will work against them. For them to accept the advice of the likes of Thomas Dolan, Catherine Mead and Rachel Corbett is to follow the lead of the folks that stood by and watched Montreal burn. It just doesn't make sense.
I'll even go as far to say that I know many of the folks in Calgary and on any given day would consider them to be very competent. On this day I think the competency scale has been shaved back by their inability to learn from their peers. Their outstanding belief in themselves is certainly a component of successful people but it is also a component of people that fail.
The questions for me is simply risk vs. reward.
I think Pat is correct in regards to the price point as the Curling event here in Vancouver showed a lot of people balking at the idea of paying so much more for no increase in quality or quantity of events. If you are involved in a sport, you have precious little time to attend anything else and by paying more money, you are, in effect, subsidizing the other events.
It should be noted that the OutGames Foundation or whatever they called themselves is a totally new organization that has been able to convince existing organizations to fall in line under their umbrella.
My hope is that those organizations will continue to function if the umbrella fails.
Ken
This is from last week's Phila. Gay News:
QUOTE
The Philadelphia Gay Tourism Caucus, in conjunction with local tourism and government organizations and GLBT community members, submitted a bid Jan. 19 to host the 2008 North American Outgames.
According to PGTC executive director Tami Sortman, the bid was made in an effort to help Philadelphia gain its share of the $64-billion gay travel market.
Sortman added that the North American Outgames will be smaller than last year’s Gay Games in Chicago and the Outgames in Montreal. The bid included plans for a sports component, headed by William Way Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Community Center executive director ’Dolph Ward Goldenburg; a civil-rights event, headed by Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission chairperson Steve Glassman; and a pride festival, organized by Philly Pride Presents executive director Frannie Price.
Though the Gay Games and Outgames ended up losing money, Glassman said he’s confident Philadelphia will be able to avoid similar financial struggles.
“With proper planning and fundraising, I think we’ll be financially successful,” he said.
Sortman said the city will receive a response to the bid the second week of February.
According to PGTC executive director Tami Sortman, the bid was made in an effort to help Philadelphia gain its share of the $64-billion gay travel market.
Sortman added that the North American Outgames will be smaller than last year’s Gay Games in Chicago and the Outgames in Montreal. The bid included plans for a sports component, headed by William Way Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Community Center executive director ’Dolph Ward Goldenburg; a civil-rights event, headed by Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission chairperson Steve Glassman; and a pride festival, organized by Philly Pride Presents executive director Frannie Price.
Though the Gay Games and Outgames ended up losing money, Glassman said he’s confident Philadelphia will be able to avoid similar financial struggles.
“With proper planning and fundraising, I think we’ll be financially successful,” he said.
Sortman said the city will receive a response to the bid the second week of February.
Sigh.
OK - after 24 hours of dwelling on this trying to come up with one single reason why I should consider this anything but GREAT news for the North American GLBT sport community - but I failed. Mind you I'm sure I could have probably come up with many - if my goal were to protect a monopoly.
When Montreal's financial debacle became public - all the comments we read here were about how this would be the death of the Outgames - and how difficult it would be for the international GLBT sport community to gain partners. And yet here we are - a few months later - and one of the most successful cities and tourism boards - in terms of working with local GLBT organizations, mainstream orgainizations and international organizations - expressing the desire to organize an event FOR US. Yes they want to benefit from it - but the bottom line is - we NEED partners to help us grow GLBT sport. And should we choose to dismiss organiztions like those involved in this bid - then quite frankly - we deserve to fail.
When Montreal's financial debacle became public - all the comments we read here were about how this would be the death of the Outgames - and how difficult it would be for the international GLBT sport community to gain partners. And yet here we are - a few months later - and one of the most successful cities and tourism boards - in terms of working with local GLBT organizations, mainstream orgainizations and international organizations - expressing the desire to organize an event FOR US. Yes they want to benefit from it - but the bottom line is - we NEED partners to help us grow GLBT sport. And should we choose to dismiss organiztions like those involved in this bid - then quite frankly - we deserve to fail.
Pat,
Get your head out of your cash box and see the truth!
They are not doing it FOR us anymore than any corporation enters the market FOR us. They do it for themselves and the whole incentive is to make money. After all of this how can you still be stuck on this point.
They even mention their motivation when they speak to the Gay Dollars that are floating around out there.
I can also tell you that gay events run by gay people is not above concern either. Frankly, I have been to many events that were run by guys that were pocketing the surplus. It is totally different than events that are non-profit.
Your conclusion that we deserve what we get if we don't let them do it for us (with all of their interests and motivations being taken care of and not ours) is ridiculous. I know that there are a huge bunch of folks out there with incredible knowledge and experience that would be happy to put on events. Part of the reason why they are not more apparent right now is no one wanted to face the machine of Montreal/GLISA casting negativity towards everyone that was not supportimg them blindly. I was told that I was and should be pitied because I did not trust them when I asked questions about their own contradictions.
Bottom line, we have enough knowledge and expertise to run the events without leaving our interests and concerns to the management of others (who will take care of their own interests first).
Ken
Get your head out of your cash box and see the truth!
They are not doing it FOR us anymore than any corporation enters the market FOR us. They do it for themselves and the whole incentive is to make money. After all of this how can you still be stuck on this point.
They even mention their motivation when they speak to the Gay Dollars that are floating around out there.
I can also tell you that gay events run by gay people is not above concern either. Frankly, I have been to many events that were run by guys that were pocketing the surplus. It is totally different than events that are non-profit.
Your conclusion that we deserve what we get if we don't let them do it for us (with all of their interests and motivations being taken care of and not ours) is ridiculous. I know that there are a huge bunch of folks out there with incredible knowledge and experience that would be happy to put on events. Part of the reason why they are not more apparent right now is no one wanted to face the machine of Montreal/GLISA casting negativity towards everyone that was not supportimg them blindly. I was told that I was and should be pitied because I did not trust them when I asked questions about their own contradictions.
Bottom line, we have enough knowledge and expertise to run the events without leaving our interests and concerns to the management of others (who will take care of their own interests first).
Ken
Just an aside on the Press Article, I find it interesting that Team Philadelphia is not mentioned at all. Are they supporting this event? If they are not, then I think we have just got another failure in the offing.
And I'm not even from Nth America.
And I'm not even from Nth America.
That's a good point JBAL. I agree with you - if at least some Philly GLBT sports people are not involved. But it does sound like this is at least being led by members of our community. The bid is from the Gay Tourism caucus with the sports component to be headed by William Way Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Community Center executive director ’Dolph Ward Goldenburg. Now I admit I have no idea what sport background that person may have. The rest of the event following GLISA's pattern will be the civil-rights event, headed by Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission chairperson Steve Glassman; and a pride festival, organized by Philly Pride Presents executive director Frannie Price.
So the sport question is a valid one, but otherwise this all seems to be led by GLBT community members in partnership with the city and the very gay friendly Philly tourism board.
So the sport question is a valid one, but otherwise this all seems to be led by GLBT community members in partnership with the city and the very gay friendly Philly tourism board.
QUOTE(Travelpat @ Feb 11 2007, 05:57 PM)
The bid is from the Gay Tourism caucus with the sports component to be headed by William Way Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Community Center executive director ’Dolph Ward Goldenburg. Now I admit I have no idea what sport background that person may have.
I don't know much about him but I do know he attended the "Out at the 76ers" game a couple years ago because scottie got my ticket through the Center so I sat in his row.
I think many folks are wandering off topic for this discussion. Are any of you attending the Calgary Outgames? Seattle Frontrunners have not mentioned anyone attending. It was brought up in the February board meeting, by our track coach Len Tritsch, who remains very active with GLISA. He also asked the board if he could also join North American Outgames and represent Seattle Frontrunners.
The date seemed to be rapidly approaching and no one from Seattle was known to register yet.
If anyone knows registration numbers, or wants to share their plans to attend, it would be helpful. Does anyone have a team planning to attend?
Kelly Stevens - Team Seattle
The date seemed to be rapidly approaching and no one from Seattle was known to register yet.
If anyone knows registration numbers, or wants to share their plans to attend, it would be helpful. Does anyone have a team planning to attend?
Kelly Stevens - Team Seattle
I just got an email from one of the former Team Toronto board members who used to be one of our FGG reps, which states that 'my moles in Calgary seem to feel that the Calgary OutGames are coming along really well - the OutFest (cultural festival) is selling well, featuring Lily Tomlin - the OutRights festival featuring the mother of Matthew Shepherd is fully funded by government sources and select sponsorships - they're just waiting for sports registration to pick up.'
And that increase in sport registrations may very well happen now as I have just noticed on the website -www.calgary2007.com - that indeed they have been listening in Calgary, and as of February 16th (tomorrow) the registrations for sporting events now make the Party Pac optional. So the new registration rates are actually VERY reasonable.
Curling - $85.00 (Canadian - approx. $73.00US)
Bowling - $85.00
Swimming - $65.00 (approx $55.00US)
Running - $65.00
Badminton - $75.00 (approx. $64.00US)
Volleyball - $90.00 per person (approx. $77.00US)
Ice Hockey - $80.00 per person (approx. $69.00US)
Options include the Friday Night Carnivale - $25.00, Saturday's Celebration Ball - $30.00 and Sunday's Celebration Ceremonies - $30.00
Good move Calgary. Now hopefully the overall event is well on its way to being a big success.
And that increase in sport registrations may very well happen now as I have just noticed on the website -www.calgary2007.com - that indeed they have been listening in Calgary, and as of February 16th (tomorrow) the registrations for sporting events now make the Party Pac optional. So the new registration rates are actually VERY reasonable.
Curling - $85.00 (Canadian - approx. $73.00US)
Bowling - $85.00
Swimming - $65.00 (approx $55.00US)
Running - $65.00
Badminton - $75.00 (approx. $64.00US)
Volleyball - $90.00 per person (approx. $77.00US)
Ice Hockey - $80.00 per person (approx. $69.00US)
Options include the Friday Night Carnivale - $25.00, Saturday's Celebration Ball - $30.00 and Sunday's Celebration Ceremonies - $30.00
Good move Calgary. Now hopefully the overall event is well on its way to being a big success.
Pat,
I agree with you that this is a good thing - the change in pricing and I will certainly make sure that everyone at my Curling Club knows about the change. We have had several teams cancel recently due to cost issues so with any luck they will opt back in.
I certainly hope that it is also a sign of awareness that the previous plan would have resulted in failure. I hope it doesn't mean that they have to reach extraordinary numbers in order to be successful - the 2500 quoted in the nespaper.
Are you planning on attending?
Ken
I agree with you that this is a good thing - the change in pricing and I will certainly make sure that everyone at my Curling Club knows about the change. We have had several teams cancel recently due to cost issues so with any luck they will opt back in.
I certainly hope that it is also a sign of awareness that the previous plan would have resulted in failure. I hope it doesn't mean that they have to reach extraordinary numbers in order to be successful - the 2500 quoted in the nespaper.
Are you planning on attending?
Ken
Hey Ken:
As I just posted in the other board - I may end up in Calgary. I did not think I would be going because my own volleyball team decided not to go. But just this afternoon a friend on another team invited me to join their roster for Calgary - so I think I may go. It is a fun team and I hope it will be a fun event!
And thanks for passing the message along about the lower prices to your curling friends. That is good of you.
Pat
As I just posted in the other board - I may end up in Calgary. I did not think I would be going because my own volleyball team decided not to go. But just this afternoon a friend on another team invited me to join their roster for Calgary - so I think I may go. It is a fun team and I hope it will be a fun event!
And thanks for passing the message along about the lower prices to your curling friends. That is good of you.
Pat
The Western Cup is a natural end to our Curling season so most years there are a ton of us from Vancouver that go to Clagary. Sometimes it seems like there are more of us than Calgarians!!
While I believe that they have made a mistake in going for the bigger concept I do not want them to fail. I predict that it will be a real resource drain on the folks in Calgary and a lot of people will be turned off - but then that doesn't really take a large amount of predictive insight does it?
I am wondering how the radical change in their pricing structure is impacting their other program delivery?
Ken
While I believe that they have made a mistake in going for the bigger concept I do not want them to fail. I predict that it will be a real resource drain on the folks in Calgary and a lot of people will be turned off - but then that doesn't really take a large amount of predictive insight does it?
I am wondering how the radical change in their pricing structure is impacting their other program delivery?
Ken
A News Brief in the February 2nd edition of the Philadelphia Gay News announced that the Philadelphia Gay Tourism Caucus (PGTC) submitted a bid to the Gay and Lesbian International Sports Association (GLISA) for hosting the 2008 North American OutGames.
Representatives of Team Philadelphia, the umbrella organization for gay and lesbian sports teams in the city, met with PGTC representatives several times to discuss concerns about such a bid before it was submitted. Team Philadelphia has not endorsed the bid, nor will it play an active role in the management or staging of this event if PGTC signs an agreement to host it.
Rushing to create a large event just one year from now is not justified, especially since it is based upon a continental model that has not yet been tested and would be affiliated with an entity with a disastrous fiscal record. Additionally, there are homegrown annual LGBT sports events in Philadelphia that more deservedly warrant PGTC's support. Expanded, these are more likely to succeed, and would have long-term, multi-year benefits to our local economy.
With this bid, PGTC and its supporters unfortunately align themselves with an organization that, for its own purposes, has promoted divisions within the worldwide LGBT sports movement. Philadelphia has historically been a key supporter of the Gay Games movement, lending leadership and strength in a 25 year campaign to build worldwide LGBT sports. Bidding for an event promoted by an anti-Gay Games group sadly betrays this legacy and also likely reduces any chance Philadelphia may have to host a future Gay Games.
As leaders in the LGBT sport movement, Team Philadelphia welcomes the opportunity to promote and participate in events that bring new opportunities to LGBT athletes, both here, in our beloved city of Philadelphia, and internationally. In promoting Philadelphia, we believe it is vitally important that all key local stakeholders be united behind the effort. We also believe the City of Philadelphia should seek to partner with organizations that bring honesty, integrity and accountability to the forefront. So far, GLISA and the OutGames have not demonstrated such a legacy. These are key reasons why members of our community are already strongly divided over this well-intentioned but hasty bid.
Team Philadelphia strongly encourages PGTC and the City of Philadelphia to withdraw from this bid while they still have the opportunity.
Representatives of Team Philadelphia, the umbrella organization for gay and lesbian sports teams in the city, met with PGTC representatives several times to discuss concerns about such a bid before it was submitted. Team Philadelphia has not endorsed the bid, nor will it play an active role in the management or staging of this event if PGTC signs an agreement to host it.
Rushing to create a large event just one year from now is not justified, especially since it is based upon a continental model that has not yet been tested and would be affiliated with an entity with a disastrous fiscal record. Additionally, there are homegrown annual LGBT sports events in Philadelphia that more deservedly warrant PGTC's support. Expanded, these are more likely to succeed, and would have long-term, multi-year benefits to our local economy.
With this bid, PGTC and its supporters unfortunately align themselves with an organization that, for its own purposes, has promoted divisions within the worldwide LGBT sports movement. Philadelphia has historically been a key supporter of the Gay Games movement, lending leadership and strength in a 25 year campaign to build worldwide LGBT sports. Bidding for an event promoted by an anti-Gay Games group sadly betrays this legacy and also likely reduces any chance Philadelphia may have to host a future Gay Games.
As leaders in the LGBT sport movement, Team Philadelphia welcomes the opportunity to promote and participate in events that bring new opportunities to LGBT athletes, both here, in our beloved city of Philadelphia, and internationally. In promoting Philadelphia, we believe it is vitally important that all key local stakeholders be united behind the effort. We also believe the City of Philadelphia should seek to partner with organizations that bring honesty, integrity and accountability to the forefront. So far, GLISA and the OutGames have not demonstrated such a legacy. These are key reasons why members of our community are already strongly divided over this well-intentioned but hasty bid.
Team Philadelphia strongly encourages PGTC and the City of Philadelphia to withdraw from this bid while they still have the opportunity.
So sad - how many cities will be negatively impacted by the GLISA monster before people stop being taken in the "shiny objects" that they seem to represent. This is what happens when an organization is birthed out of anger, vengeance and jealousy. Instead of being a cooperative venture of the world's LGBT sports community, it began life as a group designed to kill and replace another group. Something like that is never going to be able to create the kind of bridges that really benefit us all. How sad that before the dust has even settled on the fiscal disaster in Montreal, Philly's gay tourism caucus has rejected the city's wonderful Gay Games legacy and started down a path bound to divide people even more.
Kevin,
Bypassing the bid process would certainly be an attractive motivation for going this route - but bypassing the people that would be your number 1 resource for the massive army of volunteers is simple lunacy.
Of course you could always use the Montreal model and hire at least 90 more people than any other GLBT sporting event has ever hired (Full-time folks that is - I don't know how many part time) and that may make it work - until the balance sheet comes through!
What are these people thinking?
Ken
Bypassing the bid process would certainly be an attractive motivation for going this route - but bypassing the people that would be your number 1 resource for the massive army of volunteers is simple lunacy.
Of course you could always use the Montreal model and hire at least 90 more people than any other GLBT sporting event has ever hired (Full-time folks that is - I don't know how many part time) and that may make it work - until the balance sheet comes through!
What are these people thinking?
Ken
I don't understand it either. Presumably there are some sports people in Philadelphia who are part of the bid process, but I have read in a few places that they were also considering bidding for both the 2014 Gay Games and the 2013 OutGames. Can you imagine anything more likely to reduce your chances of landing the 2014 Gay Games than mounting a bid for the 2013 OutGames? Well, I suppose yes - bidding on the 2008 North American OutGames would likely have that effect.
I wonder if this is a case of them just not understanding the landscape. I'm doubly disappointed as the Philly tourism people were sponsors of the Gay Games in Chicago and I had presumed that they "got it" with regard to the LGBT sports scene, especially in the U.S.
I wonder if this is a case of them just not understanding the landscape. I'm doubly disappointed as the Philly tourism people were sponsors of the Gay Games in Chicago and I had presumed that they "got it" with regard to the LGBT sports scene, especially in the U.S.
Kevin,
My cynicism mounts a charge here when I guess that the only thing that these people "get" is that there are dollars floating around out there and they want more of them!
Do I sound like LA Charlie?
Ken
My cynicism mounts a charge here when I guess that the only thing that these people "get" is that there are dollars floating around out there and they want more of them!
Do I sound like LA Charlie?
Ken
QUOTE(kenmac @ Feb 20 2007, 08:02 PM)
Kevin,
My cynicism mounts a charge here when I guess that the only thing that these people "get" is that there are dollars floating around out there and they want more of them!
Ken
Well, that's not a guess.
The Philadelphia Tourism people have been pretty transparent in their press release, haven't they : "According to PGTC executive director Tami Sortman, the bid was made in an effort to help Philadelphia gain its share of the $64-billion gay travel market."
It's all about dollars.
And as if that wasn't bad enough, we also had to endure travelpat's egregious comment that he was unable to "come up with a single reason why I should consider this anything but GREAT news for the North American GLBT sport community."
I can see plenty of such reasons and I so much hope that the FGG will never deal with and will never award the Gay Games to bidders with such motivations.
In my opinion, the key to a successful event, not to mention a successful bidding process, is to match the mainstream funding and logistical support with local community spirit and volunteers, all steeped in the reality of the event's mission and goals.
Chicago is in the midst of an Olympic bid. Olympics generate a tremendous economic impact, but they also come with costs; the economics on an Olympics aren't a slam dunk, just ask Montreal. The winning cities are those who demonstrate a commitment to the Olympic ideals. Chicago's bid, for example, has changed several times because of the perception that the USOC and IOC voters want to leave a positive legacy. Adjustments to the bid to more accurately reflect the Olympic ideals has prompted Chicago's bid leaders to connect even more directly with our communities (they were doing well before) and there are more supporters here even than before because of the perception that the Olympic legacy will be long-term infrastructure improvement for all of us.
A key element to the success of Chicago's Gay Games was our connection to all segments of Chicago. Everyone in the city ended up feeling as if they were playing an important role in our success. In fact, some consider Mayor Daley's decision to bid on the Olympics to be partially an outgrowth of our work, a great legacy for the Gay Games. This is the way these things should work - not "lets throw an OutGames because we want to host the Olympics some day and this will be a dry run" as Copenhagen said when they announced OutGames II.
The Philadelphia OutGames bid would have been better coming from a consortium that included sports organizers, not "led" by the tourism caucus, and should have considered how the event would benefit the long-term health of the LGBT sports community in Philadelphia, not just economics of tourism. Philly Tourism has set some amazing new standards for LGBT city promotion. Many look to them as leaders, just as many look to Montreal as leaders. I have to wonder why they would undertake something without thoroughly grasping the landscape.
Or maybe they do and, like Montreal's tourism group, this is hubris.
Chicago is in the midst of an Olympic bid. Olympics generate a tremendous economic impact, but they also come with costs; the economics on an Olympics aren't a slam dunk, just ask Montreal. The winning cities are those who demonstrate a commitment to the Olympic ideals. Chicago's bid, for example, has changed several times because of the perception that the USOC and IOC voters want to leave a positive legacy. Adjustments to the bid to more accurately reflect the Olympic ideals has prompted Chicago's bid leaders to connect even more directly with our communities (they were doing well before) and there are more supporters here even than before because of the perception that the Olympic legacy will be long-term infrastructure improvement for all of us.
A key element to the success of Chicago's Gay Games was our connection to all segments of Chicago. Everyone in the city ended up feeling as if they were playing an important role in our success. In fact, some consider Mayor Daley's decision to bid on the Olympics to be partially an outgrowth of our work, a great legacy for the Gay Games. This is the way these things should work - not "lets throw an OutGames because we want to host the Olympics some day and this will be a dry run" as Copenhagen said when they announced OutGames II.
The Philadelphia OutGames bid would have been better coming from a consortium that included sports organizers, not "led" by the tourism caucus, and should have considered how the event would benefit the long-term health of the LGBT sports community in Philadelphia, not just economics of tourism. Philly Tourism has set some amazing new standards for LGBT city promotion. Many look to them as leaders, just as many look to Montreal as leaders. I have to wonder why they would undertake something without thoroughly grasping the landscape.
Or maybe they do and, like Montreal's tourism group, this is hubris.
I have a couple of questions that I hope can clarify some things for me in regard to the Philly 2008 'bid', that perhaps somebody in Philly may be able to answer. Does anybody know what - if any individuals who are involved with GLBT sport in Philly - or what GLBT leagues in Philly are involved or have indicated support for the 2008 bid? Does 'Team Philadelphia' play a significant role within the GLBT sport community of Philadelphia other than being involved with the Gay Games. And before anybody jumps all over me for simply asking those questions let me by way of using Toronto as a hypothetical example to explain why the answers to those questions are significant.
If this were Toronto bidding for 2008 and the bid was being led and supported by Tourism Toronto, the City, the Church Wellesley Business Association, the Inside Out Film Festival - but the organization called Team Toronto did not support the bid - the reaction for some would be to accuse the bid of being nothing but the 'greedhead junta' - to quote LACharlie - being at work again.
But when studied more closely we found out that in fact Toronto's 2008 bid had the support of the 300 member Curling League, the 400 member softball league and the 400 member volleyball league - all of which have almsot no involvement with Team Toronto by the way - then I think you have to at least step back and take a second look at the bid.
I do not know the answer to those questions yet, which is why i am hoping somebody from Philly can help out.
And regardless of the answers to those questions from somebody in the know in Philly, I do have one other question that I suppose anybody else can answer. Would not the ability to show successful experience in hosting a previous multi-sport GLBT event that Philly may gain from hosting a regional Outgames event in 2008, not be considered a plus when reviewing a bid for a 2014 Gay Games. I can quite confidently say that would certainly be one of the factors that the previous board of Team Toronto would have looked upon favourably when reviewing bids.
If this were Toronto bidding for 2008 and the bid was being led and supported by Tourism Toronto, the City, the Church Wellesley Business Association, the Inside Out Film Festival - but the organization called Team Toronto did not support the bid - the reaction for some would be to accuse the bid of being nothing but the 'greedhead junta' - to quote LACharlie - being at work again.
But when studied more closely we found out that in fact Toronto's 2008 bid had the support of the 300 member Curling League, the 400 member softball league and the 400 member volleyball league - all of which have almsot no involvement with Team Toronto by the way - then I think you have to at least step back and take a second look at the bid.
I do not know the answer to those questions yet, which is why i am hoping somebody from Philly can help out.
And regardless of the answers to those questions from somebody in the know in Philly, I do have one other question that I suppose anybody else can answer. Would not the ability to show successful experience in hosting a previous multi-sport GLBT event that Philly may gain from hosting a regional Outgames event in 2008, not be considered a plus when reviewing a bid for a 2014 Gay Games. I can quite confidently say that would certainly be one of the factors that the previous board of Team Toronto would have looked upon favourably when reviewing bids.
I am disappointed that the tourism bureau along with a couple of other individuals would make a hap-hazhard bid on this event with only a year of preparation. In addition to securing venues, securing manpower is a larger issue. As with anything in the gay community, volunteerism is the largest obstacle to getting anything done, so not to consult with Team Philadelphia on this matter seems silly. Who decides what sports should be held and who would be in charge of each sport? I know that every sport is not under the team umbrella, but major ones are. Did anyone check for sporting conflicts with the teams in the city?
The FINS swim team holds a meet every few years because it was decided that having it every year was too much of a strain especially when other regional cities are doing the same thing. Now they rotate with some other cities. Because it's rotated they get a much better turn out and it is run better. Well, October 2007 is their swim meet. I don't know that they would would want to have an even larger one less than one year after.
The FINS swim team holds a meet every few years because it was decided that having it every year was too much of a strain especially when other regional cities are doing the same thing. Now they rotate with some other cities. Because it's rotated they get a much better turn out and it is run better. Well, October 2007 is their swim meet. I don't know that they would would want to have an even larger one less than one year after.
Pat,
It is your line of questions that implies that the GLBT world is not and cannot be an organized group and ge tthings done.
By your line of reasoning it is not neccesary to get the backing of the people that are already fundamentally involved in the components that would make up your event.
That is the fundamental flaw in the equation.
Your question implies that you could bypass the umbrella organization and find a critical mass elsewhere and then you would be successful.
Considering how few people in each city actually step up to the plate on any regular basis, and then they are all the same people, it is ridiculous that the concept of finding other people to fill in would be successful.
Basically you are using the same concept that Thomas Dolan used in order to catapult himself to the lead of GLISA. He would not have had to expend any effort to join the FGG when the AM was here in Vancouver. He chose not to because he would have no special recognition. Recognition that he craves and was not due him as he had not done any work.
He then managed to persuade the local newspaper to publish a front page pic and article proclaiming him to be the guy that started an International Organization. He never said anything about Montreal bank rolling the whole thing or mentioned anyone else as his equals in the creation. He also didn't mention that the "Think Tank" advised against all of his pride and joy items. Now you are contimuin his thought pattern.
In Vancouver we are hamstrung by people that want to be important by hanging out under the Team Vancouver shingle but are not doing any work. Interesting thing is that they are very much like you in their thought patterns.
Back to Philadelphia - if the folks there did not ensure that Team Phillie was behind then before going public, then they get no support from me at all. If they go for Gay Games I doubt they will get any support either unless they get the city (including the inhabitants and not simply City Hall) behind them.
Any other situation stinks of a cash grab and an attempt at 15 minutes of infamy just like the folks in Montreal.
Ken
Ken
It is your line of questions that implies that the GLBT world is not and cannot be an organized group and ge tthings done.
By your line of reasoning it is not neccesary to get the backing of the people that are already fundamentally involved in the components that would make up your event.
That is the fundamental flaw in the equation.
Your question implies that you could bypass the umbrella organization and find a critical mass elsewhere and then you would be successful.
Considering how few people in each city actually step up to the plate on any regular basis, and then they are all the same people, it is ridiculous that the concept of finding other people to fill in would be successful.
Basically you are using the same concept that Thomas Dolan used in order to catapult himself to the lead of GLISA. He would not have had to expend any effort to join the FGG when the AM was here in Vancouver. He chose not to because he would have no special recognition. Recognition that he craves and was not due him as he had not done any work.
He then managed to persuade the local newspaper to publish a front page pic and article proclaiming him to be the guy that started an International Organization. He never said anything about Montreal bank rolling the whole thing or mentioned anyone else as his equals in the creation. He also didn't mention that the "Think Tank" advised against all of his pride and joy items. Now you are contimuin his thought pattern.
In Vancouver we are hamstrung by people that want to be important by hanging out under the Team Vancouver shingle but are not doing any work. Interesting thing is that they are very much like you in their thought patterns.
Back to Philadelphia - if the folks there did not ensure that Team Phillie was behind then before going public, then they get no support from me at all. If they go for Gay Games I doubt they will get any support either unless they get the city (including the inhabitants and not simply City Hall) behind them.
Any other situation stinks of a cash grab and an attempt at 15 minutes of infamy just like the folks in Montreal.
Ken
Ken
Ken - I did not imply anything by my questions. I simply asked them because I did not know the answers and I suspect others reading this board do not know either. And without knowing that information you can not really in a knowledgeable way comment on the Philly situation. I'll use history and Team Toronto agan - as I can knowledgeably comment. In 1997 - 1998 the local sports organizations were furious that Team Toronto's board at the time had spent so much resources and money - almost $200,000 I believe - on a failed bid for the 2002 Gay Games. Members of many sport leagues were furious that those resources were in their words 'wasted'. The argument was that so much of those resources could have been put to better use to benefit local GLBT sport. And for all intents and purposes Team Toronto was pretty much obliterated as the entire board was forced to resign, and it was a mad scramble for some of us to form an ad-hoc committee to at least organize uniforms for Amsterdam with the understanding that the entire role of Team Toronto would be looked at post Gay Games. The plan that the 'new' organization would have to be more accountable to the local GLBT sport community and not just focussed on the FGG and Gay Games. So if Team Toronto's relationship with the local sport community was in that sort of place today and there was a bid coming from Toronto for a 2008 event and it was opposed by Team Toronto - but was supported by many of the leagues, then I think the organizers of the bid could quite truthfully claim that they had local GLBT sport support - even though they did not have the blessing of 'Team Toronto'.
I have no clue as to what the situation is within the GLBT sport community of Philly and that is why I asked those questions. If indeed Team Philly plays a significant role in the GLBT Philly sport scene - beyond just Gay Games related things - and they are opposed to this bid - AND the bid has virtually no support from any of the other significant gay sport organizations within Philly, then I will agree with people who say that the bid is not being done properly. And if that is the case I would certainly encourage those involved with the bid to approach people within the GLBT sport organizations of Philly to explain themselves and present their case for doing the 2008 event to see if there is any buy-in by those groups. And if there isn't - then they obviously have a real problem.
GLISA did get the buy in of Western Cup organizers for the 2007 event and I would think it mandatory that if there is to be a 2008 event in North America that it must have broad local GLBT sport organization support. Note - I don't think it has to have unanimous support - as that may be practically impossible to obtain - but it absolutely must have at least signifcant support within that city's GLBT sport community.
I have no clue as to what the situation is within the GLBT sport community of Philly and that is why I asked those questions. If indeed Team Philly plays a significant role in the GLBT Philly sport scene - beyond just Gay Games related things - and they are opposed to this bid - AND the bid has virtually no support from any of the other significant gay sport organizations within Philly, then I will agree with people who say that the bid is not being done properly. And if that is the case I would certainly encourage those involved with the bid to approach people within the GLBT sport organizations of Philly to explain themselves and present their case for doing the 2008 event to see if there is any buy-in by those groups. And if there isn't - then they obviously have a real problem.
GLISA did get the buy in of Western Cup organizers for the 2007 event and I would think it mandatory that if there is to be a 2008 event in North America that it must have broad local GLBT sport organization support. Note - I don't think it has to have unanimous support - as that may be practically impossible to obtain - but it absolutely must have at least signifcant support within that city's GLBT sport community.
QUOTE(Travelpat @ Feb 22 2007, 12:39 AM)
... Would not the ability to show successful experience in hosting a previous multi-sport GLBT event that Philly may gain from hosting a regional Outgames event in 2008, not be considered a plus when reviewing a bid for a 2014 Gay Games. I can quite confidently say that would certainly be one of the factors that the previous board of Team Toronto would have looked upon favourably when reviewing bids.
The whole point of my post earlier was to note that decisions are made by the USOC and the IOC based upon not just capacity but also linkage to the legacy and values of the Olympic movement. I believe the FGG is making an effort to make its decisions based upon values as well as production values. OutGames I was a well-produced, badly managed tourism event. GLISA awarded the Copenhagen OutGames to a tourism body without a bid process. Philly's bid is stated to come from the tourism caucus and at least one sports body, Team Philadelphia, is not in support. All three of these examples are in opposition to the stated values of the FGG because they do not represent a suitable connection to the local LGBT sports movement, and for the FGG the Team Philadelphia opposition is likely among the most important. And, of course, the whole multi-year conflict colors the views of all parties involved.
Neither Roberto nor I are on the FGG Board but I suspect many would feel similarly to us. A decision to bid for an event that is not compatible with the Gay Games values, does not enjoy the support of the FGG's closest ally in Philly, and which is sponsored by an entity (GLISA) who until very recently believed its destiny was to supplant the FGG completely, illustrates the kind of red flags that would reduces the chances for a successful Gay Games bid, even if a 2008 NA OutGames takes place and is successful.
But, of course, there would be a bidding process and if Philadelphia Tourism chose to bid, they'd be asked these difficult questions and offered a chance to respond. But they would certainly be competing against several other well-qualified cities that had not presumably made the ill-advised choice to poke the entity to which they would be applying for the rights to host the Gay Games in 2014.
Pat,
I have yet to read a question from you on this website that did not imply something. That is what I like about you, your actions are so clear and transparent. You ask questions and then a post or two later, you answer it by proving you are correct based on your knowledge and assumptions.
On the one hand you think it was not a good thing the way it evolved in Toronto - which included a backlash. Then you say that you don't think that full support is needed.
I will say that I agree with you that it would be a negative situation to have a failed bid, but it would sure be a nastier situation to find out that you had won the bid and the key folks in your city did not support you. That would be a bumpy road all of the way to the event.
Perhaps that explains more about why Montreal had to hire so many people. Perhaps they couldn't get enough volunteers in key positions for the full run up to the Games.
I have a question for you - Why do you ask questions that infer and even openly state that you know nothing and then tell us about all of your related experience once someone disagrees with you?
Ken
I have yet to read a question from you on this website that did not imply something. That is what I like about you, your actions are so clear and transparent. You ask questions and then a post or two later, you answer it by proving you are correct based on your knowledge and assumptions.
On the one hand you think it was not a good thing the way it evolved in Toronto - which included a backlash. Then you say that you don't think that full support is needed.
I will say that I agree with you that it would be a negative situation to have a failed bid, but it would sure be a nastier situation to find out that you had won the bid and the key folks in your city did not support you. That would be a bumpy road all of the way to the event.
Perhaps that explains more about why Montreal had to hire so many people. Perhaps they couldn't get enough volunteers in key positions for the full run up to the Games.
I have a question for you - Why do you ask questions that infer and even openly state that you know nothing and then tell us about all of your related experience once someone disagrees with you?
Ken
Hey Ken - I ask those questions when I think the answer will help people make informed decisions. I DO know a number of people who work in gay tourism in Philly and I have the utmost respect for them. But I DO think they would be making a mistake if they move forward with this without significant support from the local GLBT sport community. I DO NOT know what happens within the GLBT Philly sport scene.
Anybody who is capable of any critcal thought can determine by reading some of the posts here that anything associated with GLISA is going to be judged harshly by those most closely associated with the FGG. And it could be argued - quite convincely - that anything GLISA tries to do is going to have a difficult time - because some people are going to try to denigrate anything they do. That is why I think it is important to get as much information from other sources - so that people can then make informed decisions. I think the word 'transparent' has been used by two or three posters to describe my posts. Well as one co-worker who reads these posts joked I should have replied - 'pot meet kettle'. And I really don't have a problem with you having strong opinions that are different from mine. I really don't. In fact I quite enjoy the banter here and do not hold grudges against people who disagree with me or always try to portray my questions in a negative light. In fact I think some of my posts have resulted in very excellent replies from people like Kevin which I think has served a very useful purpose.
In this particualr case I really DO NOT know the answers to my questions in regard to what is happening in Philly. I do know that Team Philly has a strong affilation to the FGG - but beyond that I do not know. So the cynical side of me makes me wonder if this situation is similar to the Berlin situation when Vorspeil - the FGG affiliated group in Berlin - who went to Berlin's mayor with the co-president of the FGG to argue to the mayor that he should not support an Outgames bid for 2009. Yet many of the individual sport organizations within the city had expressed support. So is this a case of the closely affiliated to the FGG Team Philly opposing - but many local individual leagues supporting - or is this truly a bid with practically no local GLBT spot support. I think everybody looking at this situation would feel the answers to those questions would help them make an informed decision - myself included!
Anybody who is capable of any critcal thought can determine by reading some of the posts here that anything associated with GLISA is going to be judged harshly by those most closely associated with the FGG. And it could be argued - quite convincely - that anything GLISA tries to do is going to have a difficult time - because some people are going to try to denigrate anything they do. That is why I think it is important to get as much information from other sources - so that people can then make informed decisions. I think the word 'transparent' has been used by two or three posters to describe my posts. Well as one co-worker who reads these posts joked I should have replied - 'pot meet kettle'. And I really don't have a problem with you having strong opinions that are different from mine. I really don't. In fact I quite enjoy the banter here and do not hold grudges against people who disagree with me or always try to portray my questions in a negative light. In fact I think some of my posts have resulted in very excellent replies from people like Kevin which I think has served a very useful purpose.
In this particualr case I really DO NOT know the answers to my questions in regard to what is happening in Philly. I do know that Team Philly has a strong affilation to the FGG - but beyond that I do not know. So the cynical side of me makes me wonder if this situation is similar to the Berlin situation when Vorspeil - the FGG affiliated group in Berlin - who went to Berlin's mayor with the co-president of the FGG to argue to the mayor that he should not support an Outgames bid for 2009. Yet many of the individual sport organizations within the city had expressed support. So is this a case of the closely affiliated to the FGG Team Philly opposing - but many local individual leagues supporting - or is this truly a bid with practically no local GLBT spot support. I think everybody looking at this situation would feel the answers to those questions would help them make an informed decision - myself included!
Pat,
You have just proven my point yet again.
Your questions were very leading and were clearly going in the direction of your last post.
I can agree that we fundamentally disagree on the need to get grassroots support within any community that is looking to host a major event. You think it is okay to go with a group of people and I think it is important that you get to as many people as you can to garner that support. The process I espouse is more work and can be very time consuming but it builds bridges and supports community.
The belief that you have supported in recent posts does not support community growth. It is actually very divisive as bid committees select who they think is important and then leave the rest of the community on the way side to join in later - or not. When they choose to not join in they are ridiculed as trouble makers. This is so much like a High School Cheerleading squad. I expect Tina Fey would have no difficulty making fun of that kind of a process.
If you think that getting "some" people together is enough, then go fo it. I think it leads to an elitist program that is not representative of community.
I will agree with you that unanimous agreement is not going to be possible, but you would want to be as close as possible before proceding.
I see no more of a problem with the Vorspeil discussing their concerns on a gay sporting event in their city with their mayor. Wouldn't that be the exact thing that they should be doing? Perhaps we could try to get every city team to do some advocating on behalf of GLBT sports in their sities. If they were successful, we might see an even larger increase in participants than a Gay Games would ever provide.
Ken
You have just proven my point yet again.
Your questions were very leading and were clearly going in the direction of your last post.
I can agree that we fundamentally disagree on the need to get grassroots support within any community that is looking to host a major event. You think it is okay to go with a group of people and I think it is important that you get to as many people as you can to garner that support. The process I espouse is more work and can be very time consuming but it builds bridges and supports community.
The belief that you have supported in recent posts does not support community growth. It is actually very divisive as bid committees select who they think is important and then leave the rest of the community on the way side to join in later - or not. When they choose to not join in they are ridiculed as trouble makers. This is so much like a High School Cheerleading squad. I expect Tina Fey would have no difficulty making fun of that kind of a process.
If you think that getting "some" people together is enough, then go fo it. I think it leads to an elitist program that is not representative of community.
I will agree with you that unanimous agreement is not going to be possible, but you would want to be as close as possible before proceding.
I see no more of a problem with the Vorspeil discussing their concerns on a gay sporting event in their city with their mayor. Wouldn't that be the exact thing that they should be doing? Perhaps we could try to get every city team to do some advocating on behalf of GLBT sports in their sities. If they were successful, we might see an even larger increase in participants than a Gay Games would ever provide.
Ken
Actually Ken you may be surprised which way I am leaning on this. From what I have heard so far it sounds to me doubtful that the bidders have the sport support at the level I think they should have. And I suspect Philly people in the know will let us know if that is true.
And then lo and behold Ken - we might actually agree on something.
And then lo and behold Ken - we might actually agree on something.
QUOTE(Travelpat @ Feb 23 2007, 12:50 PM)
And then lo and behold Ken - we might actually agree on something.
Then it's time for one of you to change your mind as this would be a most unnatural occurrence.
You guys are too funny.
I thought that we agreed that we disagreed on numerous occasions in the past! (Place smiley face here)
I thought that we agreed that we disagreed on numerous occasions in the past! (Place smiley face here)
Hi there,
This advertisement just came into my inbox. I love how the GLISA - NA folks are going to use their website to share best practises.
GLISA North America Comes OUT!
Vancouver, British Columbia
GLISA (Gay and Lesbian International Sports Association) North America has had another step in its evolution by announcing the launch of its website.
"The website, www.glisa-na.org is a vital tool in promoting the organization and providing to our member clubs and associations and partners a venue to share news, best practices, and a calendar of event;, it's their reliable link to us and ours to them" stated Greg Larocque, President of GLISA North America. "Our website will allow us to continue to grow as an organization, in terms of members, depth, and scope and in terms of what features and benefits we can provide our members".
GLISA-NA is also pleased to announce that registration is underway for the 1st North America Continental OutGames in Calgary, Alberta, April 1 - 8, 2007. GLISA North America, a partner with the Calgary OutGames Legacy, is excited to be involved in the 25th anniversary of Western Cup, the longest-running continuous multi-sport event in North America. During the North America OutGames, registrants can also participate in OutFest, the seven-day cultural festival featuring Lily Tomlin, BitchSlap!, the Wyrd Sisters and a choral festival, and OutRights, the two-day Human Rights conference featuring Judy Shepard, mother of Mathew Shepard and Executive Director of the Matthew Shepard Foundation. Register now at www.calgary2007.com for your sport of choice or the Human Rights conference and for more information on purchasing tickets for the OutFest performances.
Greg Larocque
President - GLISA North America
President@glisa-na.org
As for the President Greg Larocque - he is also from the Vancouver area and was a short lived member of the Board of Team Vancouver that attended about 2 meetings. When we talked about the FGG and GLISA he told me that he thought GLISA had to be a good thing because he spoke with Mark Tewksbury and he really seemed to understand what it was like growing up gay.
I could still see the stars in his eyes. I asked him what that had to do with either the FGG or GLISA and he said that Mark was with GLISA so they must be doing something good. Of course I don't assume that just because someone can swim really well it will make him perfect at everything else, but apparently some people do believe that.
I should also report that there have been mixed responses from here in Vancouver in regards to the news that sport prices have been dropped to the bare minimum. Some folks are now considering going to the event as the price is more reasonable. Some that had previously registered at the higher price are pissed that they did not get the lower price option. I looked at the Appollo website to see if they are giving people a chance to change their payment choice and did not see any clearly available options.
Considering Vancouver supplies at least 30% of all of the participants every year,and many from here are not happy with these changes, they may find that they are alienating folks with their waffling on program costs. This may have long term effects on the event. As stated before, that would make me very sad.
As for me, I may wait until the last minute to register and see if they pull out a 2 for 1 special!!
Ken
This advertisement just came into my inbox. I love how the GLISA - NA folks are going to use their website to share best practises.
GLISA North America Comes OUT!
Vancouver, British Columbia
GLISA (Gay and Lesbian International Sports Association) North America has had another step in its evolution by announcing the launch of its website.
"The website, www.glisa-na.org is a vital tool in promoting the organization and providing to our member clubs and associations and partners a venue to share news, best practices, and a calendar of event;, it's their reliable link to us and ours to them" stated Greg Larocque, President of GLISA North America. "Our website will allow us to continue to grow as an organization, in terms of members, depth, and scope and in terms of what features and benefits we can provide our members".
GLISA-NA is also pleased to announce that registration is underway for the 1st North America Continental OutGames in Calgary, Alberta, April 1 - 8, 2007. GLISA North America, a partner with the Calgary OutGames Legacy, is excited to be involved in the 25th anniversary of Western Cup, the longest-running continuous multi-sport event in North America. During the North America OutGames, registrants can also participate in OutFest, the seven-day cultural festival featuring Lily Tomlin, BitchSlap!, the Wyrd Sisters and a choral festival, and OutRights, the two-day Human Rights conference featuring Judy Shepard, mother of Mathew Shepard and Executive Director of the Matthew Shepard Foundation. Register now at www.calgary2007.com for your sport of choice or the Human Rights conference and for more information on purchasing tickets for the OutFest performances.
Greg Larocque
President - GLISA North America
President@glisa-na.org
As for the President Greg Larocque - he is also from the Vancouver area and was a short lived member of the Board of Team Vancouver that attended about 2 meetings. When we talked about the FGG and GLISA he told me that he thought GLISA had to be a good thing because he spoke with Mark Tewksbury and he really seemed to understand what it was like growing up gay.
I could still see the stars in his eyes. I asked him what that had to do with either the FGG or GLISA and he said that Mark was with GLISA so they must be doing something good. Of course I don't assume that just because someone can swim really well it will make him perfect at everything else, but apparently some people do believe that.
I should also report that there have been mixed responses from here in Vancouver in regards to the news that sport prices have been dropped to the bare minimum. Some folks are now considering going to the event as the price is more reasonable. Some that had previously registered at the higher price are pissed that they did not get the lower price option. I looked at the Appollo website to see if they are giving people a chance to change their payment choice and did not see any clearly available options.
Considering Vancouver supplies at least 30% of all of the participants every year,and many from here are not happy with these changes, they may find that they are alienating folks with their waffling on program costs. This may have long term effects on the event. As stated before, that would make me very sad.
As for me, I may wait until the last minute to register and see if they pull out a 2 for 1 special!!
Ken
OMG
I just went to see what the GLISA NA web site looked like and at first I was confused as I thought I was looking at the GLISA website. I guess they saved money by using the same layout colors and words that the parent website uses!
I also found out that the Vancouver folks have been put on record as hosting the 2nd NA OutGames in 2011!!! This comes from the mouth of a person that cannot get people to work with him on the Board of Team Vancouver but would have to envision getting several hundred or a thousand to volunteer to put on a medium sized sporting event. To do this he stated that they would follow in the success of the Olympics in 2010. Is he aware that the Olympics is for Winter that year and his OutGames would be in June. Not that much cross over potential.
I guess I would need to eat crow considering that I am from a city that has done something pretty well the same as the Philly tourism folks. One of our people has gone forward to put the name of our city in the mix for an event without talking to the other stakejolders to define feasibility.
I guess that one of the best things about the FGG is that which has been defined as a weakness by some people in the past.
The bid process is very rigorous and thorough and has separated the unprepared bids from the polished bids in straight order.
With the GLISA process - whether it be NA, International or maybe even Australian, all it takes to get awarded a Games is to declare an interest.
This is watering down the event and the impact of the event and reduced it to a money making operation. Oh yeah, that is what GLISA came from so I guess the apple did not fall far from the tree.
Ken
I just went to see what the GLISA NA web site looked like and at first I was confused as I thought I was looking at the GLISA website. I guess they saved money by using the same layout colors and words that the parent website uses!
I also found out that the Vancouver folks have been put on record as hosting the 2nd NA OutGames in 2011!!! This comes from the mouth of a person that cannot get people to work with him on the Board of Team Vancouver but would have to envision getting several hundred or a thousand to volunteer to put on a medium sized sporting event. To do this he stated that they would follow in the success of the Olympics in 2010. Is he aware that the Olympics is for Winter that year and his OutGames would be in June. Not that much cross over potential.
I guess I would need to eat crow considering that I am from a city that has done something pretty well the same as the Philly tourism folks. One of our people has gone forward to put the name of our city in the mix for an event without talking to the other stakejolders to define feasibility.
I guess that one of the best things about the FGG is that which has been defined as a weakness by some people in the past.
The bid process is very rigorous and thorough and has separated the unprepared bids from the polished bids in straight order.
With the GLISA process - whether it be NA, International or maybe even Australian, all it takes to get awarded a Games is to declare an interest.
This is watering down the event and the impact of the event and reduced it to a money making operation. Oh yeah, that is what GLISA came from so I guess the apple did not fall far from the tree.
Ken
"Congratulations, Ken, on Vancouver's selection as host of the NA OutGames 2011. As you know, the selection process is very complicated and rigous and involves a great deal of scrutiny of your ability to perform in a satisfactory manner as well as community support and buy-in. We appreciate that you took the time to write your plans on a cocktail napkin at Feather Boa night at Odyssey. Your ability to succinctly describe your plans with the words "We'll Do Good" gives us tremendous confidence, but your performance under the influence of alcohol was inspiring. Scoring free drinks from your bartender boyfriend shows you have budget expertise, and the cheers of your friends as you slammed those shots clearly illustrates you have the community's full faith and backing. We'll be in touch 4 weeks before the event to see how things are going and 4 weeks afterward with the name of a good lawyer.
Sincerely,
GLISA North America
P.S. We had the napkin notarized by Miss Boa herself, so don't think you can back out now."
Sincerely,
GLISA North America
P.S. We had the napkin notarized by Miss Boa herself, so don't think you can back out now."
Kevin...........
You are funny!
TRL
You are funny!
TRL
Dear GLISA NA,
On behalf of all of my friends that regularly attend Feather Boa ( as well as Miss Bos herself) I accept, on behalf of the people of Vancouver, the right to host an event that will bring money into the local economy but will result in a financial difficulty. I know that I have the support of the A-list (my friends) and will tell the B-list (everyone else) what we are doing via the newspaper. I promise to not be upset if they (the B-list) don't like me because I am already used to that anyways.
I would like to request that you use all of your abilities to tell everyone that I am a wonderful guy and the best in the world to run such an event even though I have not done anything like this in the past and have no interest in talking to anyone that has good information to share with me. It isn't that I don't need information, it's just that there is not enough spotlight for everyone is there? I will gladly share it with the gorgeous hunks that come to my event though!!
One of my friends said that we should have a contract so if it is okay with you, I would like to consider your note to be that contract. All of the clauses work for me. Anything more than that is just words.
See you at the pool party!
On behalf of the Vancouver GLBT Sporting Community that know nothing about this commitment but will be drawn into it anyways.
On behalf of all of my friends that regularly attend Feather Boa ( as well as Miss Bos herself) I accept, on behalf of the people of Vancouver, the right to host an event that will bring money into the local economy but will result in a financial difficulty. I know that I have the support of the A-list (my friends) and will tell the B-list (everyone else) what we are doing via the newspaper. I promise to not be upset if they (the B-list) don't like me because I am already used to that anyways.
I would like to request that you use all of your abilities to tell everyone that I am a wonderful guy and the best in the world to run such an event even though I have not done anything like this in the past and have no interest in talking to anyone that has good information to share with me. It isn't that I don't need information, it's just that there is not enough spotlight for everyone is there? I will gladly share it with the gorgeous hunks that come to my event though!!
One of my friends said that we should have a contract so if it is okay with you, I would like to consider your note to be that contract. All of the clauses work for me. Anything more than that is just words.
See you at the pool party!
On behalf of the Vancouver GLBT Sporting Community that know nothing about this commitment but will be drawn into it anyways.
Are the NA Outgames separate from the Outgames that were held in Montreal last year? Is the Vancouver 2011 event the 2nd Outgames, following the Montreal games? Or is it supposed to be like the Calgary games this year?
And if it's similar to the Calgary games, how can they have chosen a location for 2011 when they apparently haven't chosen one for 2008 yet?
And if it's similar to the Calgary games, how can they have chosen a location for 2011 when they apparently haven't chosen one for 2008 yet?
Hey Joe In Philly.
My understanding of things are that the event in Calgary in April is the first North American Outgames. I assume that your city is bidding for the second in 2008. That would be a a North American Regional event - which is a much smaller scale event than the 'International Outgames' - the first of which was in Montreal and the next in Copenhagen in 2009. The regional events - like Calgary next month are basically modelled after the Eurogames and are intended to be events that will cater to 7-10 different sports attracting participants predominantly from North America. The major 'Outgames' - which took place last year in Montreal and are scheduled for 2009 in Copenhagen are 30 sport events on a significantly larger scale than the regional events, with participants from around the globe invited to participate.
So Montreal hosted the first World Outgames, Calgary is hosting the first North American regional event. I guess from what we've heard on this board we can pencil in Philly for the time being as potential host for a 2008 smaller scale North American regional event. Melbourne is doing a 2008 regional event for GLISA's Asia-Pacific region. Then Copenhagen does the next full blown international Outgames in 2009.
What happens after that - who knows - but from what Ken reports it sounds like some people in Vancouver are claiming that they have already locked up the 2011 North American Regional event. I have no idea if GLISA has any intention of re-igniting WWIII with the FGG by planning any events for 2010. Personally - I hope they do not.
Maybe I will find out more when I am out in Calgary playing volleyball in April.
My understanding of things are that the event in Calgary in April is the first North American Outgames. I assume that your city is bidding for the second in 2008. That would be a a North American Regional event - which is a much smaller scale event than the 'International Outgames' - the first of which was in Montreal and the next in Copenhagen in 2009. The regional events - like Calgary next month are basically modelled after the Eurogames and are intended to be events that will cater to 7-10 different sports attracting participants predominantly from North America. The major 'Outgames' - which took place last year in Montreal and are scheduled for 2009 in Copenhagen are 30 sport events on a significantly larger scale than the regional events, with participants from around the globe invited to participate.
So Montreal hosted the first World Outgames, Calgary is hosting the first North American regional event. I guess from what we've heard on this board we can pencil in Philly for the time being as potential host for a 2008 smaller scale North American regional event. Melbourne is doing a 2008 regional event for GLISA's Asia-Pacific region. Then Copenhagen does the next full blown international Outgames in 2009.
What happens after that - who knows - but from what Ken reports it sounds like some people in Vancouver are claiming that they have already locked up the 2011 North American Regional event. I have no idea if GLISA has any intention of re-igniting WWIII with the FGG by planning any events for 2010. Personally - I hope they do not.
Maybe I will find out more when I am out in Calgary playing volleyball in April.
Word has it Bismark is bidding for the Dakotas Outgames I in 2010. I'll bet Sioux Falls is pissed, they would seem a lock from the outside.
That North versus South Dakota thing does get ugly at times though, so I'm not sure they'll actually be able to put aside their differences and co-operate for a Dakotas-wide event. 
Wow Pat,
You are totally out of the loop on this and I am surprised - but maybe not as surprised as I was when I saw this document:
http://na.glisa.org/web_resource/general_d...Aug-06-2006.pdf
These minutes are from August 6 2006, weren't you at that meeting? I guess the roll call doesn't show anyone from Team Toronto.
I would guess that Glenn from Vancouver only spoke up because he was told to in order to make it look like there is actually some interest in such an event. Make it look like a big balloon from a distance and then worry about the spaces when people get closer.
At this point there are only 4 people on the Team Vancouver Board and they are busy trying to establish themselves as the GLBT kings of the whole province of BC. That is all part of the empire building.
The GLISA NA site says it is TBD for 2008 and 2010. I find that amusing after all of the smoke they blew up everyones stuff in regards to how hard they were trying to work with everyone else to avoid conflicts etc and now they are planning an event on the same schedule as Gay Games. Mind you they fully plan to compete with EuroGames so I should not be surprised. It is appearing that they will not be satisfied until they have either bankrupted or pissed off everyone but the Tourism Agencies. Eventually even they will determine that these GLISA folks are not leaders because there is just smoke behind them!
Ken
On another topic (sort of)
I just noticed that Mexico is considered part of Central and South America insofar as GLISA is concerned.
I know that there are many differences between the predominantly British colonial countries of Canada and the US and the Spanish colonial Mexico, but like it or not, the land mass is part of North America. That never explains why it is an insult if you are called a NordAmericano in Mexico - but I guess Ynakee just doesn't sound quite right to them.
Perhaps this is not an issue for anyone in Mexico but it is of interest to me as it reflects how the world is split up. We theoretically use geographical standards unless we don't want to and then we just sort of use them for naming purposes.
I think it is weird.
Ken
You are totally out of the loop on this and I am surprised - but maybe not as surprised as I was when I saw this document:
http://na.glisa.org/web_resource/general_d...Aug-06-2006.pdf
These minutes are from August 6 2006, weren't you at that meeting? I guess the roll call doesn't show anyone from Team Toronto.
I would guess that Glenn from Vancouver only spoke up because he was told to in order to make it look like there is actually some interest in such an event. Make it look like a big balloon from a distance and then worry about the spaces when people get closer.
At this point there are only 4 people on the Team Vancouver Board and they are busy trying to establish themselves as the GLBT kings of the whole province of BC. That is all part of the empire building.
The GLISA NA site says it is TBD for 2008 and 2010. I find that amusing after all of the smoke they blew up everyones stuff in regards to how hard they were trying to work with everyone else to avoid conflicts etc and now they are planning an event on the same schedule as Gay Games. Mind you they fully plan to compete with EuroGames so I should not be surprised. It is appearing that they will not be satisfied until they have either bankrupted or pissed off everyone but the Tourism Agencies. Eventually even they will determine that these GLISA folks are not leaders because there is just smoke behind them!
Ken
On another topic (sort of)
I just noticed that Mexico is considered part of Central and South America insofar as GLISA is concerned.
I know that there are many differences between the predominantly British colonial countries of Canada and the US and the Spanish colonial Mexico, but like it or not, the land mass is part of North America. That never explains why it is an insult if you are called a NordAmericano in Mexico - but I guess Ynakee just doesn't sound quite right to them.
Perhaps this is not an issue for anyone in Mexico but it is of interest to me as it reflects how the world is split up. We theoretically use geographical standards unless we don't want to and then we just sort of use them for naming purposes.
I think it is weird.
Ken
As a long-time resident of Calgary, I'm puzzled by the lack of publicity about the North American Outgames in our local media. I thought for sure there would be an article about it in the March issue of Outlooks (a nationally-distributed magazine but published in Calgary), but all I found was a short list of events buried on page 43, no different from what you can find on the Outgames website. Perhaps there will be something in the other monthly magazine (Gay Calgary). But at least I haven't heard any negative commentary in the mainstream media, perhaps another sign that this city has matured and can finally shed the 'redneck' perception still held by some Canadians.
I'm hoping to attend some of the events, both sporting and non-sporting. The badminton and swimming competitions are being held at a facility I sometimes go to, just a five minute walk from my home. Of particular interest to me is Judy Shepard's speech at the Out Rights conference on April 3. The fee for the conference is a hefty $225 for the full two days, with no option to purchase tickets for individual events. However, because I have done some volunteer work with AIDS Calgary, I may be eligible for a fee exemption, am waiting to hear back from them them about this.
Joe, this whole World Outgames/Continental Outgames/Gay Games schedule is a bit confusing (not to mention controversial and political, considering all the bickering that goes on in these Gay Sports Movement threads!) On its website, GLISA says that the World Outgames are to be held "every four years", and yet there is already a contradiction...the first such Games were held in Montreal in 2006, and the next ones are supposed to be in Copenhagen in 2009 (as Travelpat mentioned above), not 2010. I guess they meant "every three years"? I couldn't find anything on the site about an Outgames in Vancouver in 2011, although I recall it hosted the third Gay Games back in 1990.
I'm hoping to attend some of the events, both sporting and non-sporting. The badminton and swimming competitions are being held at a facility I sometimes go to, just a five minute walk from my home. Of particular interest to me is Judy Shepard's speech at the Out Rights conference on April 3. The fee for the conference is a hefty $225 for the full two days, with no option to purchase tickets for individual events. However, because I have done some volunteer work with AIDS Calgary, I may be eligible for a fee exemption, am waiting to hear back from them them about this.
Joe, this whole World Outgames/Continental Outgames/Gay Games schedule is a bit confusing (not to mention controversial and political, considering all the bickering that goes on in these Gay Sports Movement threads!) On its website, GLISA says that the World Outgames are to be held "every four years", and yet there is already a contradiction...the first such Games were held in Montreal in 2006, and the next ones are supposed to be in Copenhagen in 2009 (as Travelpat mentioned above), not 2010. I guess they meant "every three years"? I couldn't find anything on the site about an Outgames in Vancouver in 2011, although I recall it hosted the third Gay Games back in 1990.
Hey Ken:
Like I had said on some previous posts - my other obligations conflicted with any of the GLISA meetings while I was in Montreal. At the time of that July 29th meeting you included the minutes from - I was at a Team Toronto brunch where we were welcoming the Russian Women's basketball team that had being sponsored to attend the Outgames by the Women for Montreal group who are affiliated with Team Toronto. The Honourable Bill Graham - who at the time was the Leader of the Liberal Party of Canada was in attendance to welcome the Russian Team - and actually spoke some Russian to them - which was kind of neat. I guess he must have picked up some Russian while he was Canada's Forign Affairs Minister back under the Paul Martin government. (Oh - how I long for those days - but I digress). So needless to say with a guest like that in attendance - as a Team Toronto board member - it would not have been polite for me to slip out attend the GLISA NA meeting.
As for your question about Mexico - I can answer that one. At the 2005 Inaugural GLISA meeting originally Mexico was to be included as a part of GLISA NA. But at the request of the Mexicans (Equipo Mexico) they asked that they be grouped in with the rest of Latin and South America because they felt for a number of reasons, including language and culture that they would feel much more comfortable in that region than being grouped in with the much more developed GLBT sport groups of Canada and the USA, where they felt they would be completely lost and potentially overlooked. They felt they could play a much more useful and significant role in helping with the development of GLBT sport throughout Latin America and South America if they were a part of that group. Those wishes seemed to make a great deal of sense to everybody at the meeting so it was decided that as per their request - Mexico would be grouped in with Latin and South America.
And Marc - the Outgames after 2009 is scheduled to be on a 4 year cycle. So future events will be 2013, 2017 etc. If you get a chance to drop out to the University of Calgary on Friday or Saturday of the NA Outgames to catch some volleyball. I'll be playing on the team called Kaos made up of friends from here in Toronto and at least one new Calgarian.
Like I had said on some previous posts - my other obligations conflicted with any of the GLISA meetings while I was in Montreal. At the time of that July 29th meeting you included the minutes from - I was at a Team Toronto brunch where we were welcoming the Russian Women's basketball team that had being sponsored to attend the Outgames by the Women for Montreal group who are affiliated with Team Toronto. The Honourable Bill Graham - who at the time was the Leader of the Liberal Party of Canada was in attendance to welcome the Russian Team - and actually spoke some Russian to them - which was kind of neat. I guess he must have picked up some Russian while he was Canada's Forign Affairs Minister back under the Paul Martin government. (Oh - how I long for those days - but I digress). So needless to say with a guest like that in attendance - as a Team Toronto board member - it would not have been polite for me to slip out attend the GLISA NA meeting.
As for your question about Mexico - I can answer that one. At the 2005 Inaugural GLISA meeting originally Mexico was to be included as a part of GLISA NA. But at the request of the Mexicans (Equipo Mexico) they asked that they be grouped in with the rest of Latin and South America because they felt for a number of reasons, including language and culture that they would feel much more comfortable in that region than being grouped in with the much more developed GLBT sport groups of Canada and the USA, where they felt they would be completely lost and potentially overlooked. They felt they could play a much more useful and significant role in helping with the development of GLBT sport throughout Latin America and South America if they were a part of that group. Those wishes seemed to make a great deal of sense to everybody at the meeting so it was decided that as per their request - Mexico would be grouped in with Latin and South America.
And Marc - the Outgames after 2009 is scheduled to be on a 4 year cycle. So future events will be 2013, 2017 etc. If you get a chance to drop out to the University of Calgary on Friday or Saturday of the NA Outgames to catch some volleyball. I'll be playing on the team called Kaos made up of friends from here in Toronto and at least one new Calgarian.
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