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copman
QUOTE(The B Man @ Feb 16 2007, 08:22 PM) *

When I would shower at my gym in Oregon, I was startled, baffled and quite frankly appalled by the rampant nekkidness of the straight dudes, especially those who knew I am gay.
My humor aside, most soldiers and most athletes will tell you they get into the lockerroom and/or showers before anyone else or after everyone else is done in order to avoid any drama, and they regulate every possible glance so as to mitigate against any concern they were "checking someone out."
Tell that to the knuckleheads who think they're so f-cking hot, we *must* be staring at them... and then tell them, "You're not that hot."


Since I have been out at work the last several years, sometimes I get kidded by other cops. They say they that they are tired of their bitchy wives & tell me they "want to come over to your side." I laugh & tell them they are "not my type." They are floored that they are not a total hot stud to me. (They actually may be but I am not going to let them know, plus I have my partner.) It shows them that gay guys shouldn't threaten them as we are not going to attack them, in or out of the shower.

Also were you kidding about the straight men being naked bothering you ?? You were joking weren't you ??
Joe in Philly
QUOTE(Jim at Outsports @ Feb 16 2007, 09:50 PM) *

I respectfully disagree with Amaechi on this. TH came across as so idiotic, hateful and ignorant that I don't think he emboldened anyone; look at the ridicule TH is taking for this. He helped shine a light on the raw homophobia that still exists, but the utter lack of anyone backing him up publically is a sign that progress has been made.


This morning on WIP radio here, John Amaechi said that since the Hardaway comments went public, he (Amaechi) has received a lot of hateful e-mails from people.

He was very impressive this morning. Angelo Cataldi actually said he was beginning to regret some of the jokes he made about Brokeback Mountain last year. BTW, Rhea Hughes (who visited us for Outsports Convention II, you may recall) asked him how he felt about Penn State's handling of bigoted women's basketball coach Rene Portland (since he went to Penn State). I don't know if other interviewers brought up that topic or not.
Illini_fan
QUOTE(Jim at Outsports @ Feb 16 2007, 08:50 PM) *

I respectfully disagree with Amaechi on this. TH came across as so idiotic, hateful and ignorant that I don't think he emboldened anyone; look at the ridicule TH is taking for this. He helped shine a light on the raw homophobia that still exists, but the utter lack of anyone backing him up publically is a sign that progress has been made.
I will jump on the disagreement bandwagon here Jim. Reading the comments to the TH reports on both ESPN and SI is enough to make any sane person nauseous. There are a lot of hateful and ignorant people writing up about how they agree with TH and furthermore are happy that he made the statements that "everyone is thinking" (quote from the comments). Are these people marginilized? Maybe. But did TH give them the cojones to find their voice? You betcha.

But in the end I agree with the fact that this is good for Amechi and the gay community to show that homophobia still exists in a big way.
sportinlife
Interesting that internalized homophobia has only been mentioned once here that I've seen. My first thought when I first actually heard what Hardaway had said, after laughing, was "Damn, I never thought he was gay."

He fits a certain "type" that my partner would like but interests me very little in the sexual department - though in some photos I might revise that.

Regardless, overall I have to agree with those who say that his honesty is a good thing for the cause of gay rights. We couldn't pay for this kind of exposure of homophobia.

Regardless of how widespread his views are, good people will see them for what they are and be ashamed to that they exist eventually.
WestMass
I especially like Amaechis focus on those who are hurt or will be hurt most by those comments and that is young people. Those of us who have heard and seen bigotry have become somewhat used to it but to a teenager or younger adult who is seeking to find their place Hardaways comments are like a punch to the gut.
ESPN posted an email commment the other night from a man who described himself as a young man of color who stated that comments such as those from TH are the reason why he is still in the closet.
Hopefully remaining focused on this issue will lead to more media exposure and heal the wounds that TH opened.
faydman
QUOTE(copman @ Feb 17 2007, 05:19 AM) *


Also were you kidding about the straight men being naked bothering you ?? You were joking weren't you ??


it's off topic, but i too would be uncomfortable showering with straight friends, coworkers, etc. i'd think it strange if they weren't uncomfortable as well. my boyfriend had a straight friend who was very comfortable showering with him. i always found it strange.
Bryan
I'm always confused by so much focus on locker rooms and showers. People shower with strangers at gyms etc., all the time. I've showered in public places with friends, straight and otherwise, many times and any discomfort is usually just the typical awkwardness that anyone might have around nudity. But I consider locker rooms to be functionable not a place for great socializing, etc. The focus on locker rooms just seems kind of weird sometimes.

Hardaway's comments are so pathetic and extreme; he's almost a parody of a homophobe. I can't imagine anyone listening and not thinking "What an ignorant jerk." Unless of course, they're also one.

Hardaway also strikes me as one of those guys who show athletic talent in high school or earlier and from then on neglect every other subject, class, or learning opportunity. So many professional athletes are stunted...in fact they just seem stupid sometimes, especially when you see these idiotic brawls, etc. People with one great talent and not much else. Some of them, not all, don't get me wrong.
mdterp01
YellaDawg said: RuPaul? Please do not use RuPaul as an example. RuPaul has NEVER been a friend of the black gay community. She's always been "cooning" for the white gay folk. I am not shocked at all by her support of a blackface stereotypically racist character.

just eddie said: You are really crossing the line.Obviously you have just as many racial issues as you do gay issues and your reaction is borderline offensive.Especially using words like "cooning"

While YellaDawg may be coming across as abrasive, his statements are 100% on point. Sure he could have said it in a more politically correct manner, but the fact that he was "blunt" about it doesn't make the statement less true. If RuPaul is the only person that Cyd can come up with to say "oh no its not a black/white issue" then thats really sad.
J eddie
QUOTE(mdterp01 @ Feb 17 2007, 02:31 PM) *

While YellaDawg may be coming across as abrasive, his statements are 100% on point. Sure he could have said it in a more politically correct manner, but the fact that he was "blunt" about it doesn't make the statement less true.


Really? and how well do you and Dawg actually know RuPaul? Can't help but wonder what you are both basing your opinion on.I suppose next you'll attack John Amaechi for being too British.Heaven knows that if you don't speak enough Ebonics then you might be disqualified as a bona fide black man! Excuse the the overflow of sarcasm.
canmark
Miami Herald: Gay mayor reaches out to Hardaway

QUOTE
As the firestorm continued over Tim Hardaway's anti-gay remarks on radio, the mayor of North Miami, who is gay, invited the ex-Heat star to spend a day with him.

On Friday, Hardaway accepted, the mayor said.

''We're just trying to show him that there are living, breathing people that just happen to be gay,'' said North Miami Mayor Kevin Burns, who lives with his partner of 23 years and an adopted daughter.

* * *

(Hardaway) now has ownership in several South Florida businesses, including Tim Hardaway's U.S. 1 Car Wash in Miami and Tim Hardaway's House of Wings in Coconut Grove.

Burns has some experience building bridges outside the gay community, since he won the mayor's seat decisively in 2005 despite some hostility in a city without much of a gay constituency.


Palm Beach Post: Shaq: I'd protect a gay teammate

QUOTE
Former Heat guard Tim Hardaway has become a lightning rod for critics because of his anti-gay comments, but Heat center Shaquille O'Neal said he would protect a gay teammate if he was made a target.

"I was always taught as a youngster to never judge people, so I never judge people and to each their own," O'Neal said Friday during All-Star Weekend media sessions.

"If he was my teammate and people ridiculed him and jumped on him, I would probably have to protect him."
copman
QUOTE(faydman @ Feb 17 2007, 04:05 PM) *

it's off topic, but i too would be uncomfortable showering with straight friends, coworkers, etc. i'd think it strange if they weren't uncomfortable as well. my boyfriend had a straight friend who was very comfortable showering with him. i always found it strange.

OF COURSE i GREW UP IN THE 70S WHEN WE ALL TOOK SHOWERS AFTER GYM CLASS. i FEEL -
Why feel funny -we are all guys - and we are not having sex IN THE SHOWER.
jay original
Free speech is really cool.

Eddie, I am not sure what "Ebonics" has to do with RuPaul or the people critiquing him in a very articulate
fashion on this board. Maybe we can have Biden and Obama come in and lead a discussion. laugh.gif

No one is saying RuPaul isn't black, they are just saying they don't like his politics and in that sense, disagree with Cyd's point that RuPaul's support of a blackface gay minstrel destroys the political history of
minstrelsy for all black people. But humor is an individual taste as Cyd pointed out. I'm just waiting for the Tsunami laugh-in hour. It'll probably lead to some side splitting breakthroughs. biggrin.gif


By the by: I LOVE YOU SHAQUILLE! I AM SO GLAD YOU GOT ANOTHER RING BEFORE LAKER KILLER KOBE
AND YOU WOULD STICK UP FOR ANY TEAMMATE REGARDLESS OF SEXUAL ORIENTATION! XOXOX wub.gif
J eddie
QUOTE(jay original @ Feb 17 2007, 08:06 PM) *

Free speech is really cool.

Eddie, I am not sure what "Ebonics" has to do with RuPaul or the people critiquing him in a very articulate
fashion on this board. Maybe we can have Biden and Obama come in and lead a discussion. laugh.gif


I am not defending Cyd or RuPaul.I don't even like RuPaul.I am most certainly not defending the fool portraying Shirley Q.Liquor,either.This thread however is about Mr.John Amaechi and what he hopes to accomplish and what he has already accomplished.Yet,somehow,someway,someone really felt the need to take this in a whole different direction.I also feel it is more about a former professional athlete coming out than it is about a "black" former professional athlete coming out.Heaven forbid it should be that simple!In other words to Hell with Shirley Q.Liquor and lets get back to Mr. Amaechi,shall we.
Bryan
Um, Cooning?
Anzana
Regarding the alleged damage an openly gay player might cause in locker room dynamics and camaraderie or the harsh treatment he would receive from teammates or the threat of being cut, it is worth noting that many of the states and cities in which professional teams are based have anti-discrimination laws.

While it might be difficult to prove discrimination if a player were cut for being openly gay, hostile-work environment in a locker room certainly would be less difficult to prove.

Players struggling with whether to come out might want to consider that locker rooms are workplaces, too, and gay players are protected from anti-discrimination laws there also.
fenwayguy
More Hardaway fallout:

QUOTE
The Tim Hardaway US 1 Car Wash has been renamed to the Grand Luxe Auto Bathe. A manager at the car wash told CBS-4 that Hardway was part of a group that owned the facility and that it was determined by the overall ownership to change the name.

Hardaway’s business partner at the Hardaway House of Wings (said) that the restaurant does not discriminate against gays and he doesn’t agree with Hardaway. "I think that there is no room for hatred for anybody, especially as a black man. We know about hatred first hand."

- Hardaway Car Wash Ungergoes Name Change, CBS4 (Miami), 2/17/07

Meanwhile,
QUOTE
The mayor of North Miami, who is gay, invited the ex-Heat star to spend a day with him. Hardaway accepted, the mayor said.

The plan is for Hardaway to join Burns and his family for a routine weekday at the mayor's office and home -- doing things like dropping off Burns' child at school, meeting with constituents and dinner with the family.

- Gay mayor reaches out to Hardaway, Miami Herald, 2/17/07

Well it's a gesture and all, but doesn't that sound pretty weird? TH reporting early for a wholesome breakfast with the mayor's husband and their little girl, witness to their Snickers Moment as everyone rushes out the door, Daddy Rob to the office, Daddy Kevin and that bad Mr Hardaway to City Hall for their Special Day.

But please let's not have the TV cameras follow them around all day. And double-please they don't fly up to New York the next day to make the rounds of the morning shows...
Jim at Outsports
QUOTE
I will jump on the disagreement bandwagon here Jim. Reading the comments to the TH reports on both ESPN and SI is enough to make any sane person nauseous.


Based on what Amaechi said last night to Bill Maher, seems like we're more in agreement than we were before.
J eddie
QUOTE(fenwayguy @ Feb 18 2007, 12:35 AM) *

More Hardaway fallout:
Meanwhile,
Well it's a gesture and all, but doesn't that sound pretty weird? TH reporting early for a wholesome breakfast with the mayor's husband and their little girl, witness to their Snickers Moment as everyone rushes out the door, Daddy Rob to the office, Daddy Kevin and that bad Mr Hardaway to City Hall for their Special Day.


I personally believe stuff like this is a waste of time.How do we know that Hardaway isn't doing this strictly to improve his business reputation? Reactions like TH's only prove that John Amaechi was wise to come out after his pro basketball years.
J eddie
QUOTE(jay original @ Feb 17 2007, 08:06 PM) *

Free speech is really cool.

Eddie, I am not sure what "Ebonics" has to do with RuPaul or the people critiquing him in a very articulate
fashion on this board. Maybe we can have Biden and Obama come in and lead a discussion. laugh.gif


Good point Jay.I was just surprised at how quickly the positive side of this thread had changed into something else.I apologize if I've offended anyone.I was reacting to an expression that another poster used.
George Twins fan
The worst part of Hardaway's "apology" was how it was all about him. How his stupid comments impacted his family and friends and so on. Nothing about how his hateful words may affect some gay youth somewhere.

While it would be great from a karma standpoint if all his kids end up queerer than a Liza Minneli-Barbra Streisand duet (or Melissa Etheridge-KD Lang for the sapphic side of life), I sure hope not for his kids' sakes.
John King
Just think if a gay player came out, and got traded to another team. The pranks on him would take a seriously strong guy. I remember watching this story on 20/20 where they pranked several gay employees. They put a plastic vagina in one guys sandwich and said that it was the closest the guy would ever get to eating p*ssy. So can you imagine being on a team with a bunch of juvenile, young guys?
buccoman
The vagina sandwich is actually kind of funny (I concede that I didn't see the show, so it might have been mean spirited)...Pranks are just part of being on a team, so I would hope that the would-be gay active player would just go along with the joke....
MuchAdoAbout
Re Feb. 15, 2007 post by mdterp01
re Hardaway and influence of slavery on black homophobia

I feel your analysis was insightful and that bringing up the underlying effect slavery had in promoting homophobia and hyper-masculinity in black men is apropos; and something I hadn’t considered in such depth before. Thank you. As with child molestation when people talk about its long term effects, slavery is obviously also the “gift that keeps on giving”.

Blacks, of course, are not the only group that misguidedly and unthinkingly allow attitudes to motivate their actions in the present that hearken back to real or imagined transgressions that those living in the present did not actually ever suffer through. Take the reign of terror the IRA “justified” in Northern Ireland until recently or the murder and mayhem of the Middle East right now.

If there is a morale to the story, perhaps it is that men are men no matter where you find them and men historically – given the male tendency to be utterly willful and rarely inclined to seriously question the ideas and culture in which they are raised – tend to accept simplistic explanations offered up by the “flock” about the way the world works and are more than happy to follow the leader.

Of course, if asked, every last one of these delightful fellows would proclaim that he is a true Individual and nobody can tell him what to do – the fact he is little better in most cases than a puppet on a string being jerked into action by motivations he’s never, ever considered the underpinnings of is beside the point.

The solution? Responsible people who are around the young men and women growing up today of all races and creeds need to start taking a stand. No matter how many times it takes to drive the point home it has to be made perfectly clear that just as slavery was the despicable horror beyond belief it was and the outgrowth of racism toward blacks that followed was and is totally unacceptable - so must it be made clear to young people that they do not have a God-given, church sanctioned right to hate gays – simply because they don’t understand them or are insecure about their own sexuality.

Alas, and I think you’ll agree, the day of immediate and open condemnation of people slinging gay slurs in private in most cases is still is a long way off. Perhaps though we can take some consolation in the fact that Hardaway’s comments have gotten so much negative press and even the NBA commission has come out against him. A black sports announcer said the other day, “He’ll never work again.”

I believe the day will eventually come though – in maybe another 30 or 50 years when to be biased against gays will be considered just as much a low-life attitude as open racial and religious bias in our society are now. When that point arrives, people will wonder how anyone ever thought in 2007 that there could even have been a question – just as today it is unthinkable to think of sending a black man or woman to the back of the bus.

Unfortunately, society and culture move so slowly forward, but they do irreversibly move forward in the end.

Favorite Quote:
One hour of life, crowded to the full with glorious action
and filled with noble risks, is worth whole years
of those mean observances of paltry decorum in which men
steal through existence like sluggish waters through
a marsh – without either honor or observation.
by
Sir Walter Scott
1771-1832
From Count Robert of Paris, Chapter 25
fenwayguy
.
YellaDawg
QUOTE(just eddie @ Feb 17 2007, 08:39 PM) *

Really? and how well do you and Dawg actually know RuPaul? Can't help but wonder what you are both basing your opinion on.I suppose next you'll attack John Amaechi for being too British.Heaven knows that if you don't speak enough Ebonics then you might be disqualified as a bona fide black man! Excuse the the overflow of sarcasm.


Eddie, I know RuPaul Charles fairly well. Enough to have had personal conversations over a short period time with him about these subjects. In addtions, I read his remarks and his defense of Shirley Q. Liquor:

"Critics who think that Shirley Q. Liquor is offensive are idiots. Listen, I've been discriminated against by everybody in the world: gay people, black people, whatever. I know discrimination, I know racism, I know it very intimately. She's not racist, and if she were, she wouldn't be on my new CD."

OK, RuPaul, then count me in as one of the many idiots who thinks Shirley Q. Liqour is offensive. Personally, RuPaul reminds me of those historical slaves who have been beaten, ridiculed and taunted by slaveowners so much all their lives that they can no longer even recognize when they are being insulted, defamed or beaten.

And speaking of "crossing the line", how about that Ebonics comment of yours? What, in my many posts here at this site, would lead you to believe that I endorse the use of Ebonics?
J eddie
QUOTE(YellaDawg @ Feb 18 2007, 06:40 PM) *

And speaking of "crossing the line", how about that Ebonics comment of yours? What, in my many posts here at this site, would lead you to believe that I endorse the use of Ebonics?



That was more of a reaction to the phrase "cooning for white people"
NoLongerHere
Was just watching CNN and they had 50 Cent on ...they did the whole timeline: Meech comes out, TH puts foot in mouth. Then they ask 50 Cent for feedback...

And 50 C. actually says, I sh!+ you not, it's the same as when he calls his homies his "niggas."

Yeah, seriously, 50 C. tells a reporter he says f****t all the time, but he doesn't mean anything by it. Then, a reporter reminds 50 C. that he raps in a song about his mother kissing other women (????), and 50 Cent says, "Yeah, I can't hate on my moms"

Dudes, I am soooo not making this up.

And then he made the statement about it's just like calling people "nigga."

Please tell me someone else saw this...
J eddie
QUOTE(The B Man @ Feb 18 2007, 10:21 PM) *

Dudes, I am soooo not making this up.

And then he made the statement about it's just like calling people "nigga."

Please tell me someone else saw this...


Well,he sells a lot of CDs so I guess it doesn't bother too many people.It's amazing what performers in the music industry can get away with and still have a huge fan base.Go figure.
sportinlife
A simple transcription might indicate why Tim Hardaway's outburst was so homophobic. Suppose he had said:

Well, you know, I hate Jewish people," Hardaway said near the close of an interview that mostly focused on his tenure with the Heat and the team's current state. "I let it be known, I don't like Jewish people. I don't like to be around Jewish people.

"Yeah, I'm anti-semitic. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world for that or in the United States for that. So, yeah, I don't like it."


The bold letters are my substitutions in the actual quote of Hardaway, available anywhere on the internet.

Not only would he not be working with the NBA, he might not be working anywhere.

But then if he could imagine that substitution he probably would have bitten his tongue to begin with, even if those were his sentiments and he believed them to be justified by his interpretation of his religious faith.

Bigots only attack the weak. And gays are still viewed as socially and politically weak despite the rantings about a "gay mafia" by the extreme right. I think things are beginning to change. Only time will tell for sure.
NFLJockGuy
Here's a link to a one-on-one that Hardaway did with CBS4 in Miami over the weekend....

Take note of his comparison to what he said with his references to "broccoli and potato chips"....
OMG! blink.gif

http://cbs4.com/sports
J eddie
QUOTE(NFLJockGuy @ Feb 19 2007, 08:56 AM) *

Here's a link to a one-on-one that Hardaway did with CBS4 in Miami over the weekend....

Take note of his comparison to what he said with his references to "broccoli and potato chips"....
OMG! blink.gif

http://cbs4.com/sports


Geez! The reporter is almost as annoying as he is! B-A-R-F!!!!!
CHIathlete
There are many things that bother me about this interview..

#1 - They should have sent a 'REAL' reporter.
#2 - "Most people expressed their support" - what does that mean?
#3 - "The Miami Heat have expressed their support privately" - what the heck?!
J eddie
QUOTE(CHIathlete @ Feb 19 2007, 11:00 AM) *

There are many things that bother me about this interview..

#1 - They should have sent a 'REAL' reporter.
#2 - "Most people expressed their support" - what does that mean?
#3 - "The Miami Heat have expressed their support privately" - what the heck?!


It means that he's full of sh*t!
NFLJockGuy
QUOTE(just eddie @ Feb 19 2007, 03:38 PM) *

Geez! The reporter is almost as annoying as he is! B-A-R-F!!!!!


I have a feeling there's some "history" between Timmy and the reporter...usually when a jock grants that kind of "exclusive" one on one", it's because of a trust factor he has with the reporter or news outlet, knowing that it's going to be one softball after another tossed his way....this was purely a PR move....
George Twins fan
As much of a douche that Hardaway is, at least we know where he stands and he makes himself look pretty moronic to a whole lot of people. We've always known that Hardaway is an idiot and not particularly well educated or articulate. I find someone like Tony Dungy much more dangerous. Granted he's never said anything anti-gay in public (at least that we know of) but his accepting an award from an church whose first commandment seems to be "Thou shalt keep gays down". And all the while, every news outlet reminds us ad nauseum what a wonderful, loving, caring man Dungy is.

I know when Dungy's son commited suicide many people here speculated that he might have been gay. I wish now that that was the case and that it would come out publicly, if for no other reason than to show Dungy for what I think he really is. Unless he gets up on that stage when accepting his award and rips this group a new a******, Dungy goes down as a Class A homophobe and an enemy to us all. And a much worse one than Hardaway could ever be. Nobody take ssomeone like Hardaway seriously but Dungy is very well respected, in fact damn near worshipped.
canmark
Coming to a city near you: John Amaechi on tour

Feb. 17 6:00 p.m. Philadelphia, PA 11th Annual HRC Philadelphia Gala Dinner
Feb. 20 7:00 p.m. San Francisco, CA Borders (Union Square)
Feb. 22 TBA Salt Lake City, UT Borders (TBA)
Feb. 24 2:00 p.m. Santa Monica, CA Barnes & Noble (1201 3rd St. on the 3rd St. Promenade)
Feb. 26 7:00 p.m. Dallas, TX Barnes & Noble (616 Preston Royal Shopping Center)
Feb. 27 7:00 p.m. Houston, TX Barnes & Noble (1850 Memorial Dr. in the Town & Country Center)
Feb. 28 TBA Atlanta, GA Outwrite Books (991 Piedmont Ave.)
Mar. 1 7:00 p.m. Atlanta, GA Books-A-Million (5900 Sugarloaf Parkway, Suite 321)
Mar. 2 TBA Washington, DC Lambda Rising (1625 Connecticut Ave., N.W.) 202/462-6969
Mar. 3 TBA Washington, DC Human Rights Campaign Action Center & Store (1629 Connecticut Ave., N.W.)
Mar. 5 6:30 p.m. Miami, FL Borders (Dolphin Mall)
Mar. 6 7:30 p.m. Ft. Lauderdale, FL Barnes & Noble (2051 N. Federal Highway)
Mar. 8 7:00 p.m. Orlando, FL Borders (600 Orlando Ave. in Winter Park)
Mar. 10 TBA Philadelphia, PA Barnes & Noble (1805 Walnut St. in Rittenhouse Square)
Mar. 14 TBA New York, NY 4 Astor Place
Maddog
Thanks for the list Mark! I didn't know he was going to be in my neighborhood tonight. I'll have to zip on over to Border's and find out firsthand which Madeline Kahn movie he likes. To hell with the embargo! biggrin.gif
sfdriftking76
So much for me thinking he was going to do a book signing at "A Different Light" in the Castro. The controversy has propelled his popularity to greater heights.
CHIathlete
Sort of...I've called the Borders on Michigan Avenue every day since his book came out on Wednesday. They struggle to find it in their database and have no idea when it may come in.

As for Hardaway....
"As the firestorm continued over Tim Hardaway's antigay remarks on radio, the mayor of North Miami, who is gay, invited the ex-Heat star to spend a day with him. "


http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/ar...ut_to_hardaway/
Joe in Philly
QUOTE(CHIathlete @ Feb 20 2007, 03:27 PM) *

Sort of...I've called the Borders on Michigan Avenue every day since his book came out on Wednesday. They struggle to find it in their database and have no idea when it may come in.

I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't be there and on the shelves in decent quantity. When you call you must be speaking to morons or possibly bigots. Either way, buy it somewhere else if you can.
Cyd at Outsports
QUOTE
A far more articulate athlete on the subject was the late Reggie White, who correctly pointed out that the Bible considers homosexual acts sinful and an abomination.

"We've allowed this sin to run rampant in our nation, and because it has run rampant in our nation, our nation is in the condition it is today," White said.

The tolerance movement is a fraud.

If John Amaechi had "come out" as a heterosexual, no one would have cared. It shouldn't be long until the first athlete lies and falsely "comes out" in order to sell more books.


Full Story
CHIathlete
QUOTE(Joe in Philly @ Feb 20 2007, 09:31 PM) *

I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't be there and on the shelves in decent quantity. When you call you must be speaking to morons or possibly bigots. Either way, buy it somewhere else if you can.


I work across the street, in the John Hancock building. I've gone over there on my lunch hour, it's not there!! Can you believe it?
Joe in Philly
It should be noted that Cyd is quoting the article that he linked. The fact that he didn't use the "Quote" feature makes it look like those are his words, not the writer's.

That writer, by the way, is a bigot. And an idiot.
fenwayguy
QUOTE(George Twins fan @ Feb 16 2007, 11:51 PM) *

John just finished being interviewed on HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher. He is just so witty, intelligent and grounded. Of course it's easy having an advovate like Maher doing the interviewing, but a nice interview all the same.


Video of the Maher / Amaechi segment

No comment, 'cause I haven't watched it yet. cool.gif
Maddog
QUOTE(Joe in Philly @ Feb 20 2007, 08:24 PM) *
It should be noted that Cyd is quoting the article that he linked. The fact that he didn't use the "Quote" feature makes it look like those are his words, not the writer's.


Are you protecting Cyd because you love him or because he has your picture as his avatar and you don't wanna get beat up? biggrin.gif
Penn State
QUOTE(fenwayguy @ Feb 21 2007, 01:25 AM) *


Video of the Maher / Amaechi segment

No comment, 'cause I haven't watched it yet. cool.gif


Very funny interview... loved it. biggrin.gif
buccoman
Amaechi is funny and smart. The gay community is really going to benefit from his coming out....
Frank Bruno
QUOTE
Why would it puzzle you that a member of a "degraded" group - your words, not mine - would take another persecuted group's struggle so lightly?


I am not talking about the comparative episodes of discrimination, such as your examples of ID checking, the predominance of white men in personal ads, and so forth. I was thinking of the episodes of kidnapping and murder, which have little precedent as far as racial groups in the United States outside of the treatment of Indian Nations. I said it before and I maintain it: the history of the Jim Crow era (not necessarily the history of slavery, but you can include that if you like) produced a generational fear, the harshness of which eventually gave birth to the civil rights movement (see Litwack, Taylor Branch's trilogy, Eugene Genovese). In turn, I do not think it is unacceptable, let alone racist, to think that black people could look at the episiodes of gay people being kidnapped and murdered - for being gay - and feel indifferent or disconnected from them specifically because of their familiarity with the same treatment - kidnapping and murder for being black.

As a teacher in a public high school years ago, I would routinely attempt to make connections between historical events to students in the class and their own personal experiences. I did not think it unusual, far-fetched, racist, or insensitive to link the stories of Emmitt Till and Matthew Shepard. I took a lot of heat from parents, in fact, and some students as I recall, for even discussing Shepard, but in the face of Fred Phelps, et al, hogging the headlines at that time, I wanted to illustrate that, in a strange way, our country had already been through a similar era with another group, and look how far we had come in just 50 years with them, and it would be possible to do the same with gay people. I asked the black students if they could see what example Till's death would have had on giving rise to generational movements for change, and they could. In one pretty important moment, a student told me, while discussing Shepard's police report, "how they always treat our people". That moment and that lightbulb meant a whole hell of alot more to me than many supposed "enlightened" comments here.

Now it's your turn to bash me for being a closeted racist, a typical white liberal saddled with white guilt, a white homophobe, or whatever. I stand by what I said a few days ago. In answer to your question, I was puzzled by a black man taking the gay struggle so lightly because Mr Hardaway, as a black man, should be familiar with the history of kidnapping and murder during Jim Crow, and its eventual impact on his personal ability to live a relatively good life, and the similarities between Jim Crow and what gay people have similarly had to endure. But what is more shocking to me now, I guess, is this: in an atmosphere when the most homophobic public comment I can ever remember being uttered by not just a sports figure, but any public figure at all, we can't find common ground. That is sort of sad. But I will try.

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A gay person making racist statements or acting in racist way - which happens all too often - is no better or worse than a black person - likewise happening all too often - making homophobic statements.


I agree with you. But that's not what I said initially. I said that a black person making homophobic statements is "worse" (your words, not mine) than such statements made by others because of a historical familiarity with genocide. It isn't unreasonable or racist to think that way. And I stand by it.
Maddog
Sulu takes on Tim Hardaway laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
Cyd at Outsports
If anyone is interested, I'll be on the online John McMullen show tonight at 8:20pmET. Listen in, call in - whatever.

John McMullen Show
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