Interesting NY Times article on the dilemma gays and lesbians face with Public Displays of Affection.

Good article. We hold hands in the car when we're out and about, but if we pass a truck that's taller than ours, we usually stop. Also, we don't hold hands or kiss in public. It's sad.
Looking forward to our gay cruise this coming week, so that we can display our affection for each other without worrying about anything...

The cruise sounds wonderful and at the same time it's very sad that this is one of the few times you are totally allowed to be yourselves.

It's called covering, "sociologist Erving Goffman’s term for how we try to 'tone down' stigmatized identities, even when those identities are known to the world".

It's also the title and subject of Kenji Yoshino's recent book.

I think PDA are still surprising to people. Not infrequently I see gay men holding hands or kissing in downtown Toronto in non-gay areas and I find myself surreptitiously looking at them. I don't want to stare, lest they think I'm hostile, so I try to appear indifferent (while still sneaking a glance).

So I can understand that some straight people might be shocked and surprised--although I've noticed that whenever I've seen these PDAs, I have not seen anyone else on the street react negatively. So perhaps people don't care--or don't notice. Either way, I think it's a good sign. And the more gay people do it, the more society will get used to it and it really will become a non-issue.

Heck, Charles Barkley and Dick Bavetta kissed at the NBA All Star festivities and nobody made a fuss about it. Perhaps NBA fans (Tim Hardaway aside) are more progressive than we think.

true about barkley and bavetta
also shaq give a kiss to tmac's head in todays game

I'm sure that raised a lot of eyebrows!

A few days ago I was at one of our gay bars, and witnessed a straight couple necking. Some people shot them looks. Most didn't seem to mind.

How do you feel about straights macking on each other in gay bars?

I haven't seen too many straight people in gay bars.

Thanks for posting the article -- I hadn't seen it.

When I had a boyfriend, we would hold hands in public and kissed in hetero-majority places around Boston, but there was a quickness and antiseptic quality to any public kiss.

A few weeks ago, a buddy, his BF (a mixed-race couple) and I went to Sunday brunch at a diner in a working-class part of town. My buddy and I left the diner ten minutes before his BF who was going to hang back and finish reading the Sunday paper. When they parted, my buddy leaned over and unthinkingly gave his BF a kiss on the lips and, as we left the diner, noticed that the only person who seemed to have noticed was an elderly woman who followed us with her eyes as we left. No one else seemed to notice and even the old lady held her tongue.

Yeah, unless it is pride, then I hold back on the PDA. I will do it in exclusively gay establishments, but not in straight environments. I am still getting used to the whole PDA thing. My latino mock me all the time about that because they go overboard with the PDA.

As for straights making out in gay clubs, I have been seeing that a lot lately. I'm like, what's going? It's kinda cool because it would be nice for there to one day not be a separation in gay and straight clubs.

I'm all for it actually. There is nothing wrong with a slightly mixed crowd at a gay bar, and if the couple is comfortable enough to go to the gay bar either because they are supporting a gay friend or they actually like to go to places that play good music then I don't see any reason why they shouldn't feel as free as anyone else to express themselves there. Quite honestly, these people are not the people who are the problem and so long as their ability to 'mack' on each other doesn't effect my ability to do the same with a guy -and I can't see where it would- then there is no harm done. And if the sight is that gross or icky for you, here is a thought! Look the other way.

It actually often brightens my day just little when I see to guys comfortable enough to hold hands in public or kiss and as far as PDAs in general go, I don't really mind them within reason. Something like a quick kiss or holding hands is fine. On the other hand groping or making out in public is quite another thing entirely; it's gross, and you should go get a room, etc.

The only problem I have is with the creepy straight guys who try to hit on the gay men's gal pals toward the end of the night. I've had to scare off guys from my female friends on more than one occasion.

Hmmm interesting. I beg to differ. I had a straight friend who lived in LA for a few years & enjoyed going to gay bars w/ me to meet "cool & down-to-earth gals" (as he put it), rather than bitchy, overbearing & uptight ones he'd meet @ straight bars. He also had the philosophy that it was easier to introduce his girlfriends to his gay friends since both of them were cool about gay men (or women for that matter). The only difference is that he usually didn't wait until the end of the night to hit on them. I always respected his security re: his sexuality & his approach to meeting girls endearing....

Plus, he usually got hit on by guys & handled himself well (unless of course it was a really drunk queen who wouldn't let up). In that case he'd put his arm around me, give me a peck on the lips & turn to him & say "I'm w/ him."

I miss Troy! He's married now & lives in Santa Barbara.

Well obviously your friend wasn't one of the creepy ones then.

There are a couple of bars in the Castro where I have seen straight couples who have come in on their own. That is to say, without a gay escort.

I don't really have a problem with straights or gays smooching within the it's-time-to-get-a-room limits; however, even here in San Francisco there are tons of places where a gay couple even giving each other a quick peck will get them bashed. The militant in me wants to tell the straights that until we can mack in their bars, they can't mack in ours.

A video answer to the issue: http://www.dailymotion.com/paradixman/vide..._kiss-men-1.com

Maybe this is why some of the public is getting comfortable with gay pda?

My Bf and I read yesterday's article in the Times and thought it very interesting. We live in NYC and we hold hands and kiss each other hello and goodbye all the time and have not noticed any negative reaction in over a year. We understand the difference between discretion and being stupid or rude, but obviously it is still sadly 'out of the norm' to see two men who care for each other showing any form of public display. I have no desire to see ANYONE making out in public - straight/gay/animal...it's a question of respect. If you want the world to change you have to do what you can when you can, however small to help it change for the better.

Thanks I really enjoyed that! I almost forgot I was at work!

Yes, I concur with you about showing public respect. The B/f and I rarely get beyond holding hands in public, mostly because I'm not comfortable with sloppy wet kisses in public. I don't enjoy seeing it from any couple - straight, gay or otherwise.

Here's a nice PDA...


Steven Goldstein and Daniel Gross in their Teaneck NJ civil union ceremony, 2/19/07 (NY Times)

That's okay though, because they are legally bound to each other, not like the rest of us promiscuous gays.

I think it comes down to knowing what area of the City you're in. If you're in an area where there's a lot of crime or people of that nature, maybe it's not a great idea. Granted, why you'd be walking in that area is another question haha.

Personally, I don't mind seeing people holding hands...or even sneaking a quick kiss or two if you're at some scenic area or somethin like that. But kissing in public (straight or gay) I'm just not a fan of.

When I used to commute by train, my partner and I'd kiss on the lips, out in front of everyone, as we parted not far from Penn Station in NYC. We always kiss on the lips and hug when we part and one of us heads into the airport (at Newark, LaGuardia, or elsewhere). I used to be somewhat nervous about this, having grown up Catholic and in a pretty homophobic environment, and homophobia and racism directed at me in the past, but he said, just stop worrying. And I finally have. We wouldn't do so in some cities or places we've visited though.

I did see two younger lesbians yesterday kissing and holding hands as they walked up Clark St. in Chicago. They were near the Lakeview/Boystown area, but not exactly in it, and they seemed unafraid. I thought it was beautiful. I've seen a few same-sex couples kiss or hold hands in other parts of the city, but so far nothing of the sort on the far south or west sides (not that I'm over there). Oddly enough, I rare see same-sex couples kissing or holding hands as I did years ago when I taught at several East Coast universities and colleges.