Am I reading something into something that's not there?

Rob Dibble, commentating on ESPN, made the following idiot comment about Shawn Estes's refusal to throw at Roger Clemens head: "Shawn Estes is now a pariah in the Mets clubhouse, a boy who was sent to do a man's job and proved to be gutless."

Thankfully, no one in the Mets dysfunctional clubhouse - on or off the record - would support Dibble's idiotic contention that Estes was a pariah who should've been ejected. Dibble thought headhunting was more important than getting a quality start, and, as an example of "living well is the best revenge," the fact that Estes homered off Clemens later in the game.

This is the second Met whose masculinity was questioned as a result of an encounter with Clemens. You remember the first - Mike Piazza. What do Estes and Piazza have in common? Both have been RUMORED to be gay.* Unlike Piazza, though, Shawn's never held a press conference about it.

My question for you to think about: Do you think the rumors about Shawn Estes sexuality had anything to do with Dibble going off on him like that?
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* Emphasis on the word "rumor." I have no evidence one way or the other. My question is limited to analysis of the question as to whether the mere rumor of homosexuality is sufficient for a media commentator to question an athlete's masculinity.

[quote]Originally posted by Charlie in the Trees:
This is the second Met whose masculinity was questioned as a result of an encounter with Clemens. You remember the first - Mike Piazza. What do Estes and Piazza have in common? Both have been RUMORED to be gay.*

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There was a web page linking Shawn Estes to another player can't remember who . Anyone ever seen that page or know who Im talkin about?

Bill Mueller.
Now with the Cubs.
They were teammates in San Francisco.

[quote]Originally posted by Charlie in the Trees:
Bill Mueller.
.

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THANX CHARLIE!!

Dibble also said he would run through times square naked last year if Ichiro had the highest batting average in the league. Well not that I wanted to see him run through times square naked, but isnt a real man supposed to do what they say theyre gonna do?

Yes, Shawn Estes and Bill Mueller were notorious lovers here in San Francisco. Apparently, Shawn is now geting along very well with Mike Piazza in New York!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't believe all the statements ballplayers make about their sexuality.

I don't care if Estes has sex with armadillos. Plain and simple, Rob Dibble is a douche bag.

Yes, but ... if some sports commentator railed on and on about, oh, say, Brady Anderson, not being "man enough" or something, do you think that there would be a hidden agenda?

So my question: was there some sort of hidden agenda in Rob Dibble's idiot comment that makes it worse than a simple idiotic comment?

The hidden agenda was Dibble wanted to stir some controversy and make himself part of the story, without regard to how idoitic his statements were.

I don't think Broadway is wide enough for Dibble to run through Times Square naked.

[quote]Originally posted by Charlie in the Trees:
So my question: was there some sort of hidden agenda in Rob Dibble's idiot comment that makes it worse than a simple idiotic comment?

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While Dibble may have had some hidden agenda (though I doubt he is intelligent enough to have a hidden agenda), I think it went over most everyone's head. I've been a member here for a while now, and even I don't recall the Estes-Mueller rumors. So the average, hetero fan certainly wasn't going to get his reference. Perhaps other broadcasters and players got the message, but I think it was lost on an overwhelming majority of people.

Dibble DID run through time square...he just had on a thong as he would have been arrested for running in the nude.

I personally enjoy listening to Dan and Dibble and I think Dibs is hilarious. I think Dibs is talking from a player's perspective that is hard for us fans to understand. BTW, didn't I hear on ESPN last night that Estes had already been fined by the Mets Kangaroo court for NOT hitting Clemens? Sounds like Dibs knew what he was talking about.

[quote]Originally posted by Aubie in Bham:
...didn't I hear on ESPN last night that Estes had already been fined by the Mets Kangaroo court for NOT hitting Clemens?

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Hmmm... no mention of ia kangaroo court anywhere on espn.com. Doesn't sound right, since all the newspaper accounts say no Mets are expressing any displeasure with Estes, even *off* the record.

To say Dibble provides "a player's perspective" -- I think that's ONE (ex-)player's perspective, his. It wouldn't be the same as David Cone's, or any other intelligent jock's.

My God, Dibble on the radio -- the mind boggles. Like Fran Drescher doing a museum audio tour.

[quote]Originally posted by Aubie in Bham:
Dibble DID run through time square...he just had on a thong as he would have been arrested for running in the nude.

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Well I guess thats good enough then.

[quote]Originally posted by George_vikingfan:


While Dibble may have had some hidden agenda (though I doubt he is intelligent enough to have a hidden agenda), I think it went over most everyone's head. I've been a member here for a while now, and even I don't recall the Estes-Mueller rumors.

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On another message board I read some speculation from Bay Area posters about the two when they were both on the Giants. There was a website that jokingly linked them romantically because they were known to be close friends. I don't know that there were ever any Brady Anderson/Mike Piazza-level rumors about Estes and Mueller.

[quote]Originally posted by Aubie in Bham:
BTW, didn't I hear on ESPN last night that Estes had already been fined by the Mets Kangaroo court for NOT hitting Clemens? Sounds like Dibs knew what he was talking about.

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Actually, ESPN is now reporting that Estes was fined by MLB disciplinarian (and I use the term loosely) Bob Watson. Which just makes the whole incident even more obsurd....

Dibble's "man enough" comments were echoed a couple of night's back by some 'SportsCenter' anchor (Rece Davis??) who asked Dibble whether Estes had too much of a "soft, pretty boy" (his term) image to throw at Clemens. Dibble's response didn't mention that particular term but he did say sending Estes to the mound was like "sending a boy to do a man's job." I felt they walked right up to line of outing Estes, but didn't cross it (maybe for fear of lawsuits.)

~Adam

I think the fine is offbase here. It reminds me of an old story I remember from Dave Stieb's autobiography (incidentally Stieb led the league several times in hit batsmen and joked that he should have a salary incentive for it once). One day, he fired two pitches in a row high and tight against Dave Kingman and Kingman yelled at him "Go ahead, hit me!". Stieb yelled back "If I WANTED to hit you, I'd HIT you."

I think if Estes had really wanted to hit Clemens, he would have.

I thought the fine against Shawn was laughable. It wouldn't surprise me if the club even took care of it for him since he was probably instructed to "make a statement to Clemens". Concerning the Mueller-Estes rumors. All I can say is Shawn never pitched the same after Bill was traded to the Cubs (dumbest move the Giants have made).