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sedition
Below is an entry from my blog about being gay in the skateboard industry. I figured some people here might like to read it, esp considering the high profile of one of the people involved in the story has.

__________
On July 7, 1993 part of my world collapsed. That was the day Keith Ogden died.

It was the first (reported) gay-bashing-murder to hit the skateboard world. Worse, the one skater I idolized was some how involved. You may have heard of him, as he is quite famous. His name is Danny Way.

The facts were in dispute. However, a jury found that Josh Swindell was guilty of a second-degree hate crime murder*. He is now in jail for life.

Word on the street was that Danny, Josh, and Steven Matus were out in L.A. somewhere. They were drunk. They some how came into contact with the Keith Ogden. There was an altercation. At then end Mr. Ogden was dead. Swindell claims the Ogden was really drunk, had a gun, and kept coming-on to Swindell and the others. Swindell admits to hitting Ogden. However, Swindell claims that Ogden had a pre-exisitng head injury that lead to his death. Without this injury, I guess it would have just been a "normal" gay bashing. The other side of the story was that Swindell and crew were out looking to beat up someone who was gay. Either way, he killed someone. As far as I know, Danny Way was never charged with anything, and I do not know the extent of his involvement. However, it is known that he was there.

I skated with Danny Way earlier that winter at the now defunct Z.T. Maximus Skatepark in Cambridge, MA. He was on tour with Alphonzo Rawls, and the two stopped by. Danny was my childhood hero and favorite skater. I tried to skate like him, had a zillion pictures of him on bedroom wall, rode his pro model board, etc. I also had a huge crush on him. It was looking at picture him, that I first realized I was "gay." Now, here was, some how involved with a gay-bash-murder. My closet couldn't have been deeper.

*That article is quite dated, and should be noted that Mike Vallely is still a professional skateboarder in 2007.
UCLAfan
Quite the impactful tale! We all fall for the wrong man, but your story makes me really think that statement through.
Bodhisattva
I knew those kids, well at least two of them, and both of them weren't monsters out to find a gay man to kill. What happened was a tragedy, but they were in put in a situation and handled it in a way that some kids tend to act when force to deal with something that's uncomfortable or difficult. I'm not condoning violence at all. Josh is a tough kid, professional skateboarders really have to be to have no fear, but getting in a fist fight because they were forced outside their comfort zone and having it end in a fatal blow due to a pre-existing injury, is so different than someone who planned to go out and find gay men to beat to death. Josh wasn't the one who struck the fatal blow, but he is sitting in jail for first degree murder, not second, life in prison with the possibility of parole after 15 yrs. There are things Josh was definitely guilty of that night, but 1st degree murder is not one of them. There was NO INTENT AT ALL to find, beat and kill gays that night. It's a shame the miscarriage of justice in this case. Ogden did have a pre-existing head injury, in which doctors had warned him to use extreme caution, that any blow to that injury would cause certain death. It seems interesting that a gay man would hit on such a group of young men. It's seems pretty brazen being that it wasn't a gay bar, where the incident took place. Young heterosexual men tend to react irrationally when they're being hit on by another man. Their irrationality doesn't stop there. Anyone who is openly gay feels threatened daily, with verbal and physical abuse by mostly young men. Ogden knew what he needed to do to survive. Being gay is a daily struggle I'm sure, and any struggle felt by anyone gay or straight, is handle pretty much the same way. we do what we need to do to get through it, we protect ourselves and go forward. Ogden wasn't being smart, responsible, reasonable when he made the decision to enter a non gay bar to hit on straight men. What did he think was going to happen? I believe that both parties made terrible decisions that night, but let's not turn these guys into something they are not, which is first degree murderers. My thoughts go out to all the families effected and to those that are still being effected by this tragedy. Josh's 1st parole hearing has been denied. He was such a gifted skater and athlete.

QUOTE(sedition @ Apr 13 2007, 08:24 AM) *

Below is an entry from my blog about being gay in the skateboard industry. I figured some people here might like to read it, esp considering the high profile of one of the people involved in the story has.

__________
On July 7, 1993 part of my world collapsed. That was the day Keith Ogden died.

It was the first (reported) gay-bashing-murder to hit the skateboard world. Worse, the one skater I idolized was some how involved. You may have heard of him, as he is quite famous. His name is Danny Way.

The facts were in dispute. However, a jury found that Josh Swindell was guilty of a second-degree hate crime murder*. He is now in jail for life.

Word on the street was that Danny, Josh, and Steven Matus were out in L.A. somewhere. They were drunk. They some how came into contact with the Keith Ogden. There was an altercation. At then end Mr. Ogden was dead. Swindell claims the Ogden was really drunk, had a gun, and kept coming-on to Swindell and the others. Swindell admits to hitting Ogden. However, Swindell claims that Ogden had a pre-exisitng head injury that lead to his death. Without this injury, I guess it would have just been a "normal" gay bashing. The other side of the story was that Swindell and crew were out looking to beat up someone who was gay. Either way, he killed someone. As far as I know, Danny Way was never charged with anything, and I do not know the extent of his involvement. However, it is known that he was there.

I skated with Danny Way earlier that winter at the now defunct Z.T. Maximus Skatepark in Cambridge, MA. He was on tour with Alphonzo Rawls, and the two stopped by. Danny was my childhood hero and favorite skater. I tried to skate like him, had a zillion pictures of him on bedroom wall, rode his pro model board, etc. I also had a huge crush on him. It was looking at picture him, that I first realized I was "gay." Now, here was, some how involved with a gay-bash-murder. My closet couldn't have been deeper.

*That article is quite dated, and should be noted that Mike Vallely is still a professional skateboarder in 2007.

Joe in Philly
QUOTE(Bodhisattva @ Sep 18 2008, 06:05 PM) *

There are things Josh was definitely guilty of that night, but 1st degree murder is not one of them. There was NO INTENT AT ALL to find, beat and kill gays that night.


Intent doesn't have to be formed days or even hours in advance.
Bryan
Bodhst - You're making excuses for a completely inappropriate violent act. When you bash someone hard over the head, you know that you might permanently injure or kill them simply because of the nature of head injuries. Violence is only appropriate in self defense not when someone makes an inappropriate comment or behaves badly. Women are pursued aggressively on a daily basis in a much more threatening and violent way then this skateboarder - can you imagine if they started hitting men over the head every time this happened? Personally, I'd understand their rage as women put up with some incredibly obnoxious men. The fact of the matter though is that these guys reacted to something merely inappropriate with intense violence - they have to pay the price for those actions. They may not have set out to murder a gay man - but they did. It's called accountability. It's called rational thinking. It's called a set of laws that we all have to follow.

And your comments about it not being reasonable or smart for the homosexual to go into a heterosexual bar to hit on men are completely laughable. Not only do you not know his intentions, it's completely irrelevent. Bars in our country are open to the public not just to people you approve of...again, your deflections and excuses for violence are lame brained, inadmissible in a court of law, and laughable...
jay original
I agree with you Bryan. If this were the case then every straight dude who's gone into a gay bar and led guys on/accepted free drinks before stating that they are there to "pick up chicks" should be forced to give up some tail. Meanwhile, I am not sure why this post has even resurfaced. The jury has already made it's ruling.
OnTheBench
QUOTE(Bodhisattva @ Sep 18 2008, 06:05 PM) *

I knew those kids, well at least two of them, and both of them weren't monsters out to find a gay man to kill. What happened was a tragedy, but they were in put in a situation and handled it in a way that some kids tend to act when force to deal with something that's uncomfortable or difficult. I'm not condoning violence at all. Josh is a tough kid, professional skateboarders really have to be to have no fear, but getting in a fist fight because they were forced outside their comfort zone and having it end in a fatal blow due to a pre-existing injury, is so different than someone who planned to go out and find gay men to beat to death. Josh wasn't the one who struck the fatal blow, but he is sitting in jail for first degree murder, not second, life in prison with the possibility of parole after 15 yrs. There are things Josh was definitely guilty of that night, but 1st degree murder is not one of them. There was NO INTENT AT ALL to find, beat and kill gays that night. It's a shame the miscarriage of justice in this case. Ogden did have a pre-existing head injury, in which doctors had warned him to use extreme caution, that any blow to that injury would cause certain death. It seems interesting that a gay man would hit on such a group of young men. It's seems pretty brazen being that it wasn't a gay bar, where the incident took place. Young heterosexual men tend to react irrationally when they're being hit on by another man. Their irrationality doesn't stop there. Anyone who is openly gay feels threatened daily, with verbal and physical abuse by mostly young men. Ogden knew what he needed to do to survive. Being gay is a daily struggle I'm sure, and any struggle felt by anyone gay or straight, is handle pretty much the same way. we do what we need to do to get through it, we protect ourselves and go forward. Ogden wasn't being smart, responsible, reasonable when he made the decision to enter a non gay bar to hit on straight men. What did he think was going to happen? I believe that both parties made terrible decisions that night, but let's not turn these guys into something they are not, which is first degree murderers. My thoughts go out to all the families effected and to those that are still being effected by this tragedy. Josh's 1st parole hearing has been denied. He was such a gifted skater and athlete.




Dude, get a f**king clue. There is so much wrong with your post.

First, is your understanding of the law. Most state laws have a presume that you take a plaintiff they way you find them. What does this mean? It means that if someone has a pre-exisitng condition, you take them as they are. If your actions are the proximate cause of their death, despite any pre-exisitng condition, you are responsible for your actions. Next, is the issue of intent. You stated that, "There was NO INTENT AT ALL to find, beat and kill gays that night." Another presumption of the law is that intent can form in the "twinkle of an eye." Premedatation does not require hours and hours of contemplation to manifest. It can happen in an instant. However, even assuming that Swindel never formulated intent to murder, state law knock various of levels of involuntarty manslaughter up to 2nd and 1st degree murder based on the prescene of extreme atrosity or a reckless disraged for saftey.

Second, yeah, I have been skateboarding for over 20 years. Yes, you need to "have no fear" to be (pro) skater. However, that does not mean that you also have no basic sense of humanity. By your logic, any pro skater is going to end up a murderer (becuase they have no fear) when they are placed in tenious circumstances. This is clearly not the case.

Last, a guy was killed, by the violent acts of another, and you are blaming the VICTIM? Dude. Get. A. f**king. Clue.

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