In case you haven't heard, there may be 10 to 20 new Hall of Fame members announced today in an effort to add the final batch of deserving Negro Leagues figures who were denied by baseball apartheid... including perhaps the first woman, Effa Manley, who owned the Newark Eagles. Of course, nearly all of the 39 candidates are long dead.
\"An effort that is 30 years too late\" (Murray Chass, NY Times)
Full Version: special Hall election for Negro Leaguers
Effa Manley was one of the 17 elected.
QUOTE
Manley co-owned the New Jersey-based Eagles with her husband, Abe, and ran the business end of the team for more than a decade. The Eagles won the Negro Leagues World Series in 1946 -- one year before Jackie Robinson broke the major league color barrier.
\"She was very knowledgeable, a very handsome woman,\" said Hall of Famer Monte Irvin, who played for the Eagles while the Manleys owned the team, as did Don Newcombe and Larry Doby.
\"She did a lot for the Newark community. She was just a well-rounded influential person,\" Irvin said. \"She tried to organize the owners to build their own parks and have a balanced schedule and to really improve the lot of the Negro League players.\"
Manley was white, but married a black man and passed as a black woman, said Larry Lester, a baseball author and member of the voting committee.
\"She campaigned to get as much money as possible for these ballplayers, and rightfully so,\" Lester said.
Manley used baseball to advance civil rights causes with events such as an Anti-Lynching Day at the ballpark. She died in 1981 at age 84.
The only living candidates, Buck O'Neil and Minnie Minoso, were not elected.
\"She was very knowledgeable, a very handsome woman,\" said Hall of Famer Monte Irvin, who played for the Eagles while the Manleys owned the team, as did Don Newcombe and Larry Doby.
\"She did a lot for the Newark community. She was just a well-rounded influential person,\" Irvin said. \"She tried to organize the owners to build their own parks and have a balanced schedule and to really improve the lot of the Negro League players.\"
Manley was white, but married a black man and passed as a black woman, said Larry Lester, a baseball author and member of the voting committee.
\"She campaigned to get as much money as possible for these ballplayers, and rightfully so,\" Lester said.
Manley used baseball to advance civil rights causes with events such as an Anti-Lynching Day at the ballpark. She died in 1981 at age 84.
Buck O'Meil was one of the heroes of Ken Burns' documentary on baseball. Not having him in the Hall of Fame is a shame.
How soon before Hollywood gloms onto Effa Manley's life for a biopic?
~Adam
How soon before Hollywood gloms onto Effa Manley's life for a biopic?
~Adam
Welcome to pure injustice
Effa Manley over Buck O'Neil? Now I get it:
:
Effa Manley over Buck O'Neil? Now I get it:
QUOTE
The committee also voted in Effa Manley, the first woman inductee into the Baseball Hall of Fame. Her credentials? She co-owned the Newark Eagles with her husband, Abe, for 14 seasons. The team won one championship. Also, she was outspoken. Also, her biographer, Jim Overmyer, was on the committee.
I mean, O'Neil's credentials pale in comparison to Manley :QUOTE
He was an All-Star player in the Negro Leagues. He was a successful manager for the Kansas City Monarchs. He sent more Negro Leagues players to the major leagues than anyone. He was the first black coach in the major leagues. For the past 50 years, he has been as author Jules Tygiel calls him in Shades of Glory, the Negro Leagues book commissioned by the Hall of Fame the primary spokesperson for the legacy of the Negro Leagues.
Injustice, and then a gutless committee clams up
I am no expert on Negro Leagues history, but most of the people on the voting panel certainly are. The comments on Effa Manley are slanted and arguably sexist -- she ran the Newark Eagles, not her husband. (And, incredibly, though she was raised in a household with a black father, she was a white woman by birth who lived as a black woman.) I suspect that writer (and perhaps coyoteugly) had never heard of Manley before yesterday.
Opinions differ on whether Buck O'Neil deserved to go in, but there are plenty of "All-Star" players in history who are not Hall of Fame-caliber. Buck batted sixth or seventh on his teams for much of his career. As for sending "more Negro Leagues players to the major leagues than anyone," well, managers before the 1940s had no chance of sending any black players to the majors. It's nice that a K.C. paper is sticking up for a hometown hero -- and, by all appearances, a marvelous gent and solid spokesman for the Negro Leagues' legacy -- but I suspect that if Buck had been elected, it would've been based largely on his on-camera role in the Ken Burns series. Not quite fair.
Opinions differ on whether Buck O'Neil deserved to go in, but there are plenty of "All-Star" players in history who are not Hall of Fame-caliber. Buck batted sixth or seventh on his teams for much of his career. As for sending "more Negro Leagues players to the major leagues than anyone," well, managers before the 1940s had no chance of sending any black players to the majors. It's nice that a K.C. paper is sticking up for a hometown hero -- and, by all appearances, a marvelous gent and solid spokesman for the Negro Leagues' legacy -- but I suspect that if Buck had been elected, it would've been based largely on his on-camera role in the Ken Burns series. Not quite fair.
For once Bill, you are right - You are no expert on Negro Leagues history. It's not just a hometown snub. It's a national snub. Here's another example (and I'm sure I can find dozens of other opinions to support the snub):
Exclusion of O'Neil a Major omission for Hall of Fame
Regardless of whether the writer, or me, or anyone for that matter, had heard of Manley prior to yesterday does not have any relevance for inclusion in baseball's Hall of Fame - only an individual's merits do. And skin color, "And, incredibly, though she was raised in a household with a black father, she was a white woman by birth who lived as a black woman." is not a merit. And, in the minds of many, Manley's contributions pale in comparison to O'Neil's. The fact that her biographer, Jim Overmyer, was on the voting committee should raise some eyebrows concerning a conflict of interest . No sexism exists here, so don't try and divert attention away from individual merits.
To diminish the accomplishments of what Buck O'Neil has done for baseball (and continues to do for baseball), not just the Negro Leagues, only highlights one's ignorance on the subject and calls the poster's credibility highly into question. Perhaps if you ever meet Buck, or visit the Negro League Museum, you'll gain the knowledge and perspective necessary to see this as the monumental snub for which it most certainly is.
Exclusion of O'Neil a Major omission for Hall of Fame
Regardless of whether the writer, or me, or anyone for that matter, had heard of Manley prior to yesterday does not have any relevance for inclusion in baseball's Hall of Fame - only an individual's merits do. And skin color, "And, incredibly, though she was raised in a household with a black father, she was a white woman by birth who lived as a black woman." is not a merit. And, in the minds of many, Manley's contributions pale in comparison to O'Neil's. The fact that her biographer, Jim Overmyer, was on the voting committee should raise some eyebrows concerning a conflict of interest . No sexism exists here, so don't try and divert attention away from individual merits.
To diminish the accomplishments of what Buck O'Neil has done for baseball (and continues to do for baseball), not just the Negro Leagues, only highlights one's ignorance on the subject and calls the poster's credibility highly into question. Perhaps if you ever meet Buck, or visit the Negro League Museum, you'll gain the knowledge and perspective necessary to see this as the monumental snub for which it most certainly is.
Yeah, and if I had the time, I could cite just as many opinions that O'Neil doesn't belong. Which is why this stuff is always subjective (as your citing "meeting Buck" as a convincing factor illustrates -- very scholarly).
Others among the voters have written about plenty of other figures in Negro Leagues history, perhaps even some others who were elected yesterday.
[ February 28, 2006, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: Bill W ]
Others among the voters have written about plenty of other figures in Negro Leagues history, perhaps even some others who were elected yesterday.
QUOTE
coyoteugly:
Regardless of whether the writer, or me, or anyone for that matter, had heard of Manley prior to yesterday does not have any relevance for inclusion in baseball's Hall of Fame
Yet you presume to tell people who are Negro League historians, who have devoted a year or more to considering candidates, that she's a bad choice? Strange.Regardless of whether the writer, or me, or anyone for that matter, had heard of Manley prior to yesterday does not have any relevance for inclusion in baseball's Hall of Fame
[ February 28, 2006, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: Bill W ]
QUOTE
Bill W:
Yeah, and if I had the time, I could cite just as many opinions that O'Neil doesn't belong.
Well, I will certainly be waiting for this from you. Or will you be too busy rooting on Team Cuba in the WBC to find a discerning opinion?Yeah, and if I had the time, I could cite just as many opinions that O'Neil doesn't belong.
The fact is, there are no discerning opinions, Bill.
Your blatant (and unknowledgeable) bias in this thread is as obvious as the blatant bias against O'Neil in the voting process and the conflict of interest in favor of Manley.
**Also I cited, not only meeting Mr. O'Neil, but visiting the Negroe Leagues HOF. Have you visited? Your boy, Barry, has visited. Maybe you can take a clue from the man you so ardantly and erroneously defend. Nah, you "know it all".
[ February 28, 2006, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: coyoteugly ]
From the Phila. Daily News:
QUOTE
\"They didn't think Buck was good enough to be in the Hall of Fame,'' the 94-year-old O'Neil said. \"That's the way they thought about it and that's the way it is, so we're going to live with that. Now, if I'm a hall-of-famer for you, that's all right with me. Just keep loving old Buck.
\"Don't shed any tears 'cause I'm not going to the Hall of Fame.\"
-----------
In his autobiography, O'Neil called himself a good player, but not a great player worthy of the Hall of Fame.
\"Don't shed any tears 'cause I'm not going to the Hall of Fame.\"
-----------
In his autobiography, O'Neil called himself a good player, but not a great player worthy of the Hall of Fame.
Well, that says it nicely. I guess Buck himself has a discerning [sic] opinion!
While Buck's Hall of Fame worthiness is open to debate, the inductions would have meant so much more if he had been inducted, seeing as all the others are dead. Wouldn't the ceremony have been so much more meaningful if one onbe the inductees were still alive to receive the honor on behalf of all of them (especially given all the work and travel O'Neill did in recent years promoting and memorializing the Negro Leagues)?
[ February 28, 2006, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: George Twins fan ]
[ February 28, 2006, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: George Twins fan ]
As if we need an example of Buck O'Neil's graciousness, he says he'd be honored to attend the induction of the 17 individuals elected to the Hall of Fame and speak on their behalf.
This has nothing to do with whether O'Neil deserves to be in the Hall of Fame but it does exhibit a level of magnanimity and class missing from the actions of many younger, more pampered athletes.
I do wonder whether Bud Selig--often seen as a prince of darkness--has anyone near him to him, advising him to override this committee and call for O'Neil's induction to the Hall of Fame, if, for no other reason, as a PR move.
~Adam
[ February 28, 2006, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Adam ]
This has nothing to do with whether O'Neil deserves to be in the Hall of Fame but it does exhibit a level of magnanimity and class missing from the actions of many younger, more pampered athletes.
I do wonder whether Bud Selig--often seen as a prince of darkness--has anyone near him to him, advising him to override this committee and call for O'Neil's induction to the Hall of Fame, if, for no other reason, as a PR move.
~Adam
[ February 28, 2006, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Adam ]
If there's a way to induct him for his overall accomplishments -- not just his playing career, which they (and he) seem to find not Hall-worthy, but coaching/managing, his work in getting the Negro Leagues Museum open, his efforts to get other Negro League players recognized by the Hall of Fame -- then by all means they should do so. It almost sounds like the voters pigeonholed him as a player only.
I'm not sure what the problem is with Effa Manley's biographer being one of the voters. He was one of twelve. Candidates needed nine votes to be elected. There wasn't a limit (to my knowledge) of how many candidates could be elected, so it's not like her being elected kept Buck O'Neil or Minnie Minoso or anyone else out. From what little I know of her, she certainly seems worthy.
I'm not sure what the problem is with Effa Manley's biographer being one of the voters. He was one of twelve. Candidates needed nine votes to be elected. There wasn't a limit (to my knowledge) of how many candidates could be elected, so it's not like her being elected kept Buck O'Neil or Minnie Minoso or anyone else out. From what little I know of her, she certainly seems worthy.
And as far as honoring the living goes, Minoso is the other candidate who was still alive, and has a stronger case as a player -- for both his Negro League and MLB careers -- than Buck does.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.