The World Outgames Antwerp overtaken by the crisis

and for you FrancoPhiles.... can we get a translation? something about GLISA OutGames 'Crisis'?

http://www.tetu.com/actualites/internation...-la-crise-14909

This is a Google translation courtesy of Roger:

The World Outgames Antwerp overtaken by the crisis

The city expected to host the games in 2013 must pay a deposit to the host association.Problem: lack of money ...

The third edition of World Outgames will be held in Antwerp in 2013. This competition is expected to attract about 10,000 athletes, gay, transgender and heterosexual, who will compete in 35 sports (including rugby). A cultural program, debates and activities should be organized on this occasion.

Problem: the city is supposed to pay a deposit of 150,000 euros to the Gay & Lesbian International Sport Association (GLIS) by 1 July. However, this money is currently unavailable ...

Games made up by the crisis
Lorsqu'Anvers was chosen as host city last year, it was agreed that the games would be subsidized by the Flemish government, the city and the province of Antwerp. But in this time of economic crisis, Cordon scholarships are not easily loosened.

The city and the province have agreed to provide logistical support to the event, but do not want to give money. The Flemish government started a new legislature and the negotiations for forming a majority are still ongoing. As the federal government, he agreed to provide funds, but not before 2010.

Next event in Copenhagen
In total, the organization of the World Outgames, which lasted 9 days, costs between 8 and 10 million. The organizers have made an appeal to private sponsors. But if nobody responds, games could be canceled. "Discrimination based on sexual orientation in the world of sport is an ongoing problem. Such events are necessary, "says the organizing committee. The first edition of World Outgames was held in Montreal in 2006. The second will be held in Copenhagen from 25 July to 2 August

Outgames Registration Below Target
Published 06/25/2009 by Roger Brigham jocktalkroger@yahoo.com The SF BAR:

Outgames Registration Below Target

Despite an extended registration period that closed Monday, June 15, organizers of World Outgames 2 in Copenhagen said that the number of participating athletes fell short of their target.

Outgames CEO Uffe Ulbaek told the Bay Area Reporter that the final count on sports registrations was "around 4,400 people." Ulbaek said another 600 have signed up for the associated conferences and another 200 are expected to sign up before conference registration closes in July.

Originally the Outgames organizers had said they were expecting at least 8,000 registrants, but became more conservative in their projections as fewer than expected sign-ups came in during the slow economy. Ulbaek said that although four originally planned sports were cut – rugby, kayak, pool and shooting – the remaining 34 programs would go on as scheduled.

"Bottom line, right now everything is working very smoothly," he said. "The economic figures are in balance, which makes me really, really happy. All the cutbacks have been on the organizational side."

Budget figures and registration breakdowns by sports and geography were not immediately available. Information on the July 25-August 2 events is available at www.copenhagen2009.org.

The gay French Web site Têtu.com reported this week that World Outgames 3, scheduled to be held in 2013 in Antwerp, is already hitting a major financial roadblock. The sanctioning body, Gay and Lesbian International Sports Association, has asked for a deposit of 150,000 euros (about $209,500) by July 1, but the city and province, which have promised logistical support, say they will not put up the cash. The Belgian government has said it would be able to supply some money, but not before 2010.

Meanwhile, organizers of next year's Gay Games in Cologne say their early registrations for 2010 are ahead of projections with 1,400 so far from more than 40 countries.

The Federation of Gay Games will be sending teams for site visits to 2014 Gay Games bidders Cleveland, Boston, and Washington, D.C., in August, then vote on the host for Gay Games IX at its annual meeting in September in Cologne. The assembly is expected to approve a bylaw change before that vote to ease the previous attendance requirements for voting eligibility. Without the proposed bylaw change, half a dozen organizations (including International Frontrunners, the soccer, bowling and tennis federations, and two Canadian city teams) would not be eligible to vote for the next Gay Games host.

The deadline for applying for scholarship help to attend the Gay Games is August 1. Applications are available at www.games-cologne.de/en/scholarship.

my two friends and I and my mixed doubles partner and her girlfriend are all signed up. Looking forward to a much needed break regardless of the number of participants.

Absolutely the right attitude ejnyc!
I am going as well for similar reasons and to offer my expertise in helping them with wrestling.

Please do not interprete these neutral reporting posts as anything more than encouraging much needed 'journalistic investigation' on this entire OGs/GGs split (the purpose of this thread).
It was the total LACK of honest investigation in 2006 that permitted Montreal to get away with the $5mil loss.

It is our responsibility to insure the accurate information gets out to those athletes who need to make tough informed financial choices.
We should not try to hide it.
We may all have our own personal agendas, but we should not hide information from our fellow athletes to skew a perception or result.

e.g..
I tried to GIVE away a FREE NYC/Copenhagen flight & hotel package to a NY wrestler, and he declined because he saw the low 'critical mass' figures.
As a tennis player, it is much like a wrestler.... how good a tournament can it be with low numbers?
You cannot wrestle yourself anymore than you can play tennis with yourself.
The essence of these sports require 'another' person to compete against.
It is different with Track and Swimming, where you compete against a clock and yourself.

Good luck in CopenHagen!
Gino

actually I am looking forward to a decent size tournament, about 250 players is what is currently registered, so that my time is not spent playing multiple matches in one day. Having said that I would love to be able to win one match. I also was not under the impression that anyone from the organization was skewing any results or messaging and in fact they have been very accomodating to several emails and inquiries about the tennis event and other activities during the week. See you in a few weeks!

It seems that some sensible voices are starting to come from Canada too: Xtra article

Thanks for posting that Endurance. I think that is a balanced assessment of the current situation for Toronto athletes trying to decide what to do. I'm one of those who simply can not afford Copenhagen this year - but hope to go to Cologne next year and Vancouver in 2011 for the 'Regional' Outgames if airfares, accommodation and registration costs are reasonable and my by then 51 year old body cooperates.

As for the Antwerp problems already - gee - an admission of financial problems 4 years out instead of being admitted 4 days before an event is supposed to start as in the case of Amsterdam, Sydney and Montreal- almost refreshing in some ways. lol

Maybe that admission from Antwerp should be good enough reason for GLISA to approach the FGG and say - ok lets talk and work together to fix this.

Good for Tennis... 250!
Actually, CopenHagen (Uffe et al...) have been extremely cooperative and accomodating, and I am sure they will post a by sport by country accounting of registration eventually.
But for those who ever wanted to make a decision based upon 'critical mass' of competititor this is way too late.
I will hold Kolen's feet to the fire as well on publishing resgistration data like we did with Sydney & Chicago.
It is simply too important a piece of the decision making process.
When you are spending this kind of $$, you need accurate data earlier.
-G

"La crise" simply means the current recession/depression/meltdown/credit crunch.

I am puzzled by the article about Antwerp's financial problems and I am not sure that I understand it the same way as Pat does.

Unless this is only an approximation by the journalist, I understand that the money that are not being paid are money for GLISA, not for the organization of the event. More like a missed payment of a sort of licence fee to GLISA, as opposed to subsidies for the production of the event. I am not sure though.

However, if my interpretation is correct, would this mean that GLISA in fact awards the World OutGames to cities/local or national political entities or governments and that GLISA receives its licence fee directly from them?

This is very different from the Gay Games model in which the FGG partners with a local host originated by and deeply rooted in the local LGBT sports community (the teams) and this host pays the licence fee to the FGG out of all forms of income they gather (public subsidies, sponsorships, registrations, ticket sales, etc.)

If the Antwerp one would be the new model that GLISA intends to implement permanently, that seems hardly applicable in the majority of countries, including the US. And even in countries where this can be applied, the Antwerp case seems to show that it may end up in a partnership between the clay pot and the iron pot, with one always having the upper hand.

However, this approach would not be surprising, since it would not be very distant from M2006’s.

I had the feeling that from the start of the bidding stage for Gay Games VII in 2000 to the delivery of the OutGames in 2006, the role of the Montréal sports community in the leaderships and in the decision making process was marginalized, in order to make room for representatives of what I would define a more political world (city and tourism official, former and current politicians,…), for their own marketing/PR gurus and for their cronies.

I remember having already stated in this forum that I certainly consider the involvement and the support of all such components of the civic society and the local reality as absolutely essential for the success of such events. That's not an issue, but the balance of influence of these components in the production of the event could become one.

Sydney 2002 was totally accountable to and basicall owned by Team Sydney. Games Cologne is an organization created and administered by SC Janus. The teams of Copenhagen seem clearly involved in implementing the sports but I do not know what level of influence they have in the overall management of the OutGames.

I remember we had an issue with M2006 at the closing ceremony of Gay Games VI in Sydney regarding the transfer of the Gay Games flag from Sydney to Montréal (at that time, Montréal was the unquestioned potential next Gay Games host).

The Protocol of Ceremonies for Gay Games (approved, I believe, at the 1999 Annual Meeting in Berlin and that M2006 had received during the bidding stage) stated that the Gay Games flag would be transferred from a group of representatives of the outgoing host city to a group of representatives of the incoming host city freely chosen by the respective organizations. M2006 expected that the flag would be transferred from the hands of the Mayor of Sydney to the hands of a representative of the Mayor of Montréal who was present in Sydney and they were very upset (Louise Roy actually pitched one of her terrible legendary fits) when they found out that they were mistaken.

I think it is just an episode but it is indicative of a different vision and priorities.

Roberto Mantaci,
Honorary Life Member of the Federation of Gay Games

Actually, wrestling is different than tennis in that although it is nice to have more bodies for a deeper tournament in tennis, there is nothing inherently unsafe about having a elderly small novice tennis player compete against a younger bigger, stronger experienced player. But in wrestling that is almost always a disaster.

The problem of small registrations is handled in club tournaments and the WWB Cup by suspending strict weight classes and age groups and doing pairing-director created pools that do their best to take into account age, experience, conditioning and weight differences. It often creates matches that are not at all competitive because there is more emphasis on safety, but because it allows for wrestlers to get in matches they otherwise wouldn't it makes for a good club tournament.

The Gay Games wrestling tournament has always been much bigger than that, so that although there may be some minor collapsing of groups, most folks are able to wrestle in their own weight-age groups, and even the collapsed groups are safe and competitive. That's how things are handled in large tournaments.

This is one of the many reasons why perceptions of the Outgames may vary by the sport in which you are involved. Running, swimming and cycling do not depend on 'critical mass' -- it's nice for them to have the big turnout, but it is not necessary. For wrestling it is absolutely imperative; without it you can only have exhibitions and clinics, which may very well be what Outgames may wind up having to do it.

I will be very interested to see the geographic and sport breakdowns. Since I wrote my report on the final 4,400 figure, I received an email from Ole Udshol clarifying some of the numbers. He puts the number of individual athletes at "a bit more than 4000," but that with some of those athletes registering for more than one sport the number of registrations brings "the number of part takers in sport up to more than 4600 if you count this way. The biggest sports are swimming, running and volleyball. More than 800 will take part in the aqua tournaments."

When Ole counts in conference and cultural registrants,he shows a total of 5,200, with roughly 1,300 of them from North America and Australasia. He also wrote "USA is our second largest country with almost 12%," which I take to mean about 600-700 from the United States.

I believe the Montreal figures were best estimated at about 8,000 tops. With that total, Montreal Outgames got just over 20 wrestlers, of which I believe three were from the U.S. I think even with just the 4,400, Copenhagen should get about the same number of wrestlers. If that's the case, I think the hopes of having an international class tournament may have to be shelved, but nevertheless a very, very good clinic can be put on, a good time can be had, and wrestlers can pair up in exhibitions for a positive experience.

Now, here's why working in a fringe sport like wrestling makes it mandatory for WWB to throw its organizational/promotional weight behind one global quadrennial event and not two. There are several opportunities already existing for LGBT wrestlers the clinic/exhibition weekend that I just described: counting Hillside, there are 5 yearly in the US alone. But they do not come with a price tag of several hundred dollars; registration is usually around $20.

The opportunity for a global scale tournament does not exist outside of the Gay Games. It did not happen in Montreal. Many, many of our wrestlers do not have a lot of capital (remember, the clubs don't charge as much as martial arts dojos) and cannot afford to go to two global events in a four year cycle. So they have to choose one, and in our case we decided to continue to build on our existing relation. For Copenhagen, we promised our tournament expertise, which Gene has been providing, and we sincerely hope for a safe and enjoyable experience. Had the economy not gone into a crapper, we might have been able to send a squad of six-eight from the U.S., but the private discretionary ability to help subsidize some of the expenses simply is not there.

I said back in 2005 that I wished GLISA the best of luck in defining its role in the LGBT global sports calendar and I honestly do mean it in all sincerity. I have seen nothing that indicates that a quadrennial global sports and cultural event is the right one; the calendar won't support two such events, so why not just work on making the one we have even better? But I do think the idea of fewer sports/continental games have variations that could be explored -- but not at the expense of healthy Gay Games and EuroGames that have done such a great job of transforming lives.

I posted on update on our blog, which incorporates a lot of what you all have reported here (thanks!). There is zero buzz for the Outgames and I hope they come off OK. People who go will have a great time (Copenhagen is a terrific city), but this should be the last Outgames. There is zero need for them; the Gay Games is enough.

I posted on update on our blog, which incorporates a lot of what you all have reported here (thanks!). There is zero buzz for the Outgames and I hope they come off OK. People who go will have a great time (Copenhagen is a terrific city), but this should be the last Outgames. There is zero need for them; the Gay Games is enough.

I'm sure you mean World Outgames, rather than Outgames per se. The Asia Pacific Outgames fill a an enormous gap in the LGBT sports scene, and even tho so far the NA Outgames have not really added anything other than attaching a name to pre-existing events, I think a formula there still can be figured out and is worth exploring.

Yes, I mean the World Outgames.

Someone tell me that there will not be a proper Opening Ceremonies at Out Games Copenhagen with teams marching into stadium according to nationality, state, etc. I cannot believe this is true. This is one of most uplifting and inspiring aspects of Gay Games and I cannot believe that GLISA/Outgames woudl not have proper opening ceremonies in a stadium with teams marching-in Olympic style. Please, can some one tell me that information I receive is not true?

This is what was communicated in the World Outgames Program that was sent to me on July 2nd:

In a break with the traditional stadium march, the parade of nations will take place on a catwalk from the entrance to City Hall across the square. The march will be in stride with music from Danish Music Award winner DJ BUDA and Tom and performed by international DJ Djuna Barnes.

This works for me for an Opening Ceremony. Is it in a stadium, no. But I recall that this was always the plan to march to the Square.

The Toronto Triggerfish water polo team is going to the Outgames. Here's a video of them practicing from xtra.ca.

I just got the wrestling figures from Copenhagen... 9 wrestlers... that has to be sobering... not even a EuroGames level.
It is time we seriously looked at this critical mass issue on quadrennials.

And the World Outgames martial arts registration is 22.

22 for MA and 9 for wrestling. This is indicative of the disparate damage done to the smaller individual sports.

At 49, I am participating in my first "world" LGBT sporting event (running the half marathon). I think the fact that there will be 4,000 athletes from around the world in one place--demonstrating athleticism, sportsmanship, and Pride--is something to celebrate. If the organizers can produce well organized games without bankrupting anyone, why wouldn't we want as many offerings for world LGBT games as the market will allow? Perhaps a more intimate Outgames and a larger Gay Games would provide more opportunities for a more diverse array of athletes--some of whom might benefit more from one than from another. Why make this an either/or proposition?

...because it is HARMING the opportunities of GLBT athletes in smaller sports by muddying the waters of 'critical mass' with questionable registration numbers that come out too late for athletes to make a good decision.
The wrestling and martial arts numbers are proof once again (Montreal, now Copenhagen).

Why make Copenhagen World OutGames an international competitor with GayGames one year out AGAIN?
Let GLISA go do regional/local tournaments and get OUT of the quadrennial market.
World OutGames dilutes the 'critical mass' needed for smaller sports.
We need a single large focused 'critical mass' quadrennial, and OGs has had two shots now, and it is just not cutting it.

Copenhagen would have been far more successful if it was a smaller cheaper EuroGames.
This 4.4k# is not even a good EuroGames registration.
Of course some sports can handle more opportunity.
But smaller sports cannot do it on an international level two years in a row.
The registration fees of Copenhagen were almost double a EuroGames.
I could not even give away the 2 free ride scholarships to Copenhagen that Wrestlers WithOut Borders had. The lack of competition was the factor... i.e.. 'critical mass'... who would they wrestle????

You pro GLISA guys have to stop equating your own personal perception of a 'good time' with what is needed by the GLBT athletic community.
It is not about you, it is about a 'critical mass' GLBT athletic quadrennial.

The effort to sustain two such events is too much for many, many organizations and individuals to support.

Consider, for instance, the cost of sending a team from Australia to Europe. If it is a team of wealthy individuals, or individuals blessed with an exceedingly generous benefactor, maybe they can go to both events. But in the real world for working folks, or folks living on restricted incomes, the expense of travel, registration, hotels and time off from work it is not possible to do both. So now every team and individual is forced to choose. Thus the pool of people who are able to attend one event is divided and each goes and has 'half' the competitive experience that would have otherwise occurred. This may be somewhat less notable in a sport that is numerically large, such as road running, but even there it is pretty noticeable by the smaller number of older same-age group competition, and in a sport such as wrestling it can actually make it impossible for ANY safe matches to be held at all if the few who show up are too scattered in age and weight differential.

Then, too, consider the limited revenue resource pool host organizations have to draw from. The available sponsorship money is not finite, and at this point (especially in the current economy) there simply isn't enough to go around.

The continental Outgames have shown real potential and I hope that formula grows, especially if they adopt the idea of 'harlots' tournaments in team sports so that rather going and playing with familiar teammates, all atheltes could interact with more people by being randomly assigned to tournament teams on the spot. This is used quite successfully in rugby in non-Bingham Cup years and helps grow the sport and increases everyone's chance to prepare for the Cup.

And, beyond the burdensome effort to sustain both such events and the damage to the individual sports when they do occur, there are the negative impacts on the really successful continental event that was occurring -- the EuroGames -- and just as bad the effect on international single sport championships, which are an entirely different and rewarding experience than the multisport events.

Please do not make assumptions about me. I am not one of "you pro GLISA guys," nor do I believe I was making this about me. I am not very familiar with the organized LGBT athletic community, and I was making a reasonable query. On the surface, it seems as if we'd want more opportunities for international competition, not fewer. I think you and others make a valid point about the importance of critical mass for competitions, and about costs. I think those who favor the two Games in separate years also make good points. My comment and question had to do with making the two Games a win-win, not about what was good for me. Your assumption that my query had some sort of selfish motive and your us vs. them language ("you pro GLISA guys") gives me some idea about why this discussion is so hostile and the issue so divisive. I can't imagine anyone wanting to get involved with organizing either event, with all of the ad hominem attacks.

The very purpose of this blog is to vent the problems faced by competitors, teams, and organizers in this very difficult two year market. It is a very serious debate that has been going on for years. The GLISA side would love to silence the debate in the face of yet another low registration event with canceled events in the hope they can foist yet another debacle on the community. This blog is NOT a nice personal place to post your Flickr pictures. This blog is highly visible and political.

Why get involved then in the blog and take up defending one side with no facts other than you expect to have a good time in Copenhagen on your vacation and take in a competition? Do you really believe all debates have compromises, that we should avoid controversy, and that we should all just 'get along'?

I am sorry but I do suspect you are pro GLISA, or you would not be lurking trying to put lipstick on a pig. You posted comments, and you are entitled to responses... that is how it works.

No one is questioning that for some sports more opportunities are better. But for many, especially the smaller ones, it is death. All of that has been agreed to by all sides. So how do we solve the problem? Certainly not by avoiding the issues of the debate with meaningless diversionary facts like Copenhagen is a nice city and I will have a nice vacation.

OutSports has done a great job this year on this issue with these many blogs, a podcast, and numerous press releases. The message is getting out. There will even be a conference on this very topic in Copenhagen because it is seriously impacting some teams & sports, and the financial credibility of our community to run such events.

I apologize if you were insulted, but I also believe you are being overly sensitive, and that may be generational. This is not at all an ad hominem attack on you, just on your comments. This is the nature of these blogs. By your own admission you are new to this all and have no interest in getting involved. The majority of the other posters on this blog have years of experience with GayGames, OutGames, the FGG, and GLISA. You may have just inadvertently walked into a hornet's nest.

Yet again, you make assumptions about me...that I am some kind of political lightweight, that all I care about is a nice vacation in Copenhagen, that I am overly sensitive, that I am pro GLISA, or that I think the answer to this debate is for everyone to just get along.

I have spent nearly 30 years fighting in the trenches for the rights of LGBT people and people with HIV/AIDS, as a lawyer, an advocate, and community leader. I am quite familiar with debates which are highly visible and political, thank you. I fully understand that when I post something, it may be criticized. And while I do not think any debate should avoid controversies, I do believe in civil, polite discourse with people who ultimately wish to solve a problem. And solving a problem often, though not always, does involve some sort of compromise. At the very least, it involves trying to understand the other side's point of view and seeing if any common ground exists.

I did indeed come across this discussion board by accident, but I was very interested in the subject matter and the debate. As I said before, it appeared to me on reading the various postings that there was plenty of room for a win-win, and that there was value in having 4000 LGBT athletes in one place at one time. Your response and the other did help me understand that the problem of two Games was more complex than I originally thought. I also understand that I would need to do a lot more research into the facts were I to decide to take up the defense of one side or another.

What I objected to was that you appeared to make assumptions about me, that your post appeared to contain something of a personal attack rather than a calm, factual response, and that your use of language such as "you guys" is divisive and can have the effect of reducing a debate to an on-line shouting match. Your second response continued along those lines, in tone if not in substance.

There is no need to respond to this post. I will, as you wish, pull out of the debate. You might, however, wish to change your approach and tone, or you will continue to push out of the conversation people who, despite their lack of experience in this arena, might have something useful to add.

Thank you, I will take your advice on my style, and thank you for the above, because that is exactly the kind of response I am trying to evoke from educated people like yourself. I am a wrestler, and my approach comes with the territory. But the facts speak for themselves once they are out there for discussion. I do disagree with the concept that all disagreements must have compromises.

Have fun in Copenhagen... I will be there 26-29 July.

Thank you for this. One other thing I didn't say but should have is that I do respect and admire the passion you and others bring to the topic. But civil discourse can (and should) be passionate without being divisive. I appreciate that you really care about this. I wish others in our community--sports-minded and not--wouldn't be so apathetic and would find something worthwhile to be passionate about.

You have fun, too in C-hagen...I'm there 25-29 July. Hope you get in some good, challenging wrestling, even if the field is small.

FYI:
I am going to be in Copenhagen covering the event for 5 days and would love to meet any Outsporters. We can post details here.

I will be at the CopenHagen Strand Hotel 27-30 July... helping out with wrestling and attending the open forum conference on the future of GLBT athletic events .... (Monday 27 3:30pm University).. my cell# is +1.415.373.8015

I am glad I was able to help to some degree. On a post in another blog on another board, I compared the situation of the Gay Games to a sausage factory: folks don;t want to tour the factory or stuff the sausages, they just want to enjoy the meal!

But there IS a lot that goes into making these events successful for sports, and my focus for them is always on the sports end because there are no other comparable events out there in sports whereas there are for the arts, conferences and parties.


At my first FGG meeting in 2003, I heard several people complain that the atmosphere was 'unwelcoming.' There was a clash of different styles and attitudes and it was hard for newbies such as myself.

But I dug in, educated myself and fought for my athletes ... and encouraged others to do the same as well. I cannot say I enjoyed working in the sausage factory, but I did meet a lot of very dedicated people I would otherwise never have encountered and made some very good friendships, and time has shown that we were able to do a lot of good.

Just prepared my 'white paper' for presentation at the G=FGG discussion of the future of LGBT sports and culture that is being held there. Now in the mood to nap and then hit the wrestoing mat for another practice.

Enjoy Copenhagen!

Xtra West article on Team Vancouver going to the Outgames.



Capital Xtra on ballroom dancers.

I will be staying at the Scandic Copenhagen and will be getting a local #.

Jim,

You might want to check out the Future of LGBT Sports session being held during the conferences on Monday afternoon. Representatives from Paris and Berlin will be paneling the discussion; several LGBT sports groups are preparing positions in the hopes that they can be presented.

As things stand, people there need to pay and register for the conferences even if they are already there as athletes, coaches or sports coordinators: that's 1400 Kroner or about $230, which a lot of folks cannot afford. But I know the FGG is working with the conference organizers to see if they will relax the restriction and will try to meet with everyone they can should that not be successful.

And with hotels everywhere having had to dramatically drop their rates to fill rooms - those who waited to the last minute to book their accommodation in Copenhagen are getting the best deals. I just did a quick check and there are some nice centrally located 3 star hotels including breakfast for about $130.00US per night including taxes double occupancy - or $65.00 per person per night. Similar hotels were well above $150.00 + 25% tax per room per night if booked last year.

Interesting article in many ways, one of those ways being that "sport" is mentioned only once and very marginally. This, together with the extensive report recently issued by Copenhagen, seem to finally suggest the nature of the OutGames: they intend to be mainly a human rights event ?
Figures are kind of inflated as well.

article

This is pretty much the nature of ‘OutGames’ – it’s similar to Montreal. A pride, human rights, cultural event/party that was disguised as a sporting event.

I am looking forward to the Outgames. Heading out tomorrow and joining 3 friends from across the US. It turns out that I will probably play more tennis at this event than any previous competition the way the tournament organizer handled the draws. It should be lots of fun and I definitely will be taking part in more than just the tennis event.

So you should ejcnyc. With all the money you and the other sport participants have paid to bear the costs of the NON sport events, the very least is that you get some decent tournament. Unfortunately it will not be the same for athletes in other sports.

I personally am fine with the costs I have paid to participate and have no problem with supporting other smaller sporting events as well as the non sporting events. I signed up with the understanding that there would always be non sporting events that would need some financial support. I don't feel like this is something I need to "bear". I guess the other athletes will need to make that determination themselves. My friends and I are all planning on having a great time, on and off the courts.

At the risk of getting you mad again, I have to ask you to look at the bigger picture. With a registration fee that is double what a 2007 or 2008 EuroGames is, you have to ask what is the mission of World OutGames (WOGs2), if only a much smaller more affluent contingent can take advantage of it? Of course you will enjoy CopenHagen as I will. But as a community organizer I must look at from a very different perspective than a planned vacation with friends. The less affluent GLBT athletes are not disembarking from cruise ships in CopenHagen. There are 3 American wrestlers totally paid and registered for CopenHagen, who will have NO MATCHES, and will not be reimbursed. We are obviously focused on different aspects of this, and maybe should just agree to disagree.

Another one.
http://www.cphpost.dk/culture/culture/122-...man-rights.html

Perhaps OutGames should stick to LGBT human rights and that's it. Dilemma : how to produce the human rights conference without some thousands of athletes paying the registration fee?

I was in Montreal as a spectator (not a competitor) and saw plenty of sports. Swimming, for example, in the same pool that was used in the 1976 Olympics. I saw volleyball, softball, soccer, basketball, water polo. There were events at locations around the city. I didn't attend any of the human rights events or conferences, nor did I attend any of the parties, but I did see the choral competition (for choirs) that was held in the evenings when there were no sports going on. That was very entertaining and cultural.

I quite enjoyed all of those things, and really don't understand all the negativity. If you are a Gay Games supporter, by all means tell us all the great things about the Gay Games. I hope to attend one of those events one day. But it seems there are more anti-Outgames posts than pro-Gay Games posts. That's what I don't understand.

A good question that many of us have been waiting for.
Jim Of OutSports did an excellent job of laying this out in his blog & podcast.

Of course all of these ancillary events of culture and human rights are nice to haves, but at what cost to whoever is paying the extraordinarily high registration costs (the Athletes!).

My protest is that the WorldOutGames (WOG) uses the 'skin factor' of athletes as bait, but really has no interest in it other than to have a registration base to support the conferences and culture aspect.
GLISA has no full time standing Sports Committee like the Federation has had for 15 years building LGBT sports groups.
WOG just uses what the FGG created in sports rules (RedBooks), or as it is STATED in the CopenHagen Secretariat report, used the Sydney GayGames Data they got from Montreal.
The hubris to even admit it in print....!

When you 'bill' an international event for 35 sports predicting 8k athletes, and you deliver a final registration of 4k athletes 1 month out and cancel some sports, it is a serious issue of credibility.
Many people who booked early will have NO COMPETITION (or limited competition) with no recourse to a refund.
Yes some people will have competition will have a great time, but it is a bait and switch caused by this ridiculous extra so called international event in competition with the GayGames that is confusing the market.

So while many think I am so negative, the opposite is true.
I am in CopenHagen to help as promised with the wrestling...
As it now stands, I will have nothing to do.
Wrestlers WithOut Borders (WWB) sanctioned the WOG competition, something I had to FIGHT my own constituents on because I believed we owed CopenHagen a chance to prove themselves and at least attract Europeans!
But the WOG wrestling attracted 9 wrestlers, 3 of whom are American!
WWB could not even give away 2 free expense paid scholarships to CopenHagen (a NYr and a Croatian).
I was wrong, and I now have to do the best I can to fix it for the future.
WOGs cannot honestly bill themselves with 35 sports.
They simply cannot support the smaller sports (Martial Arts got only 22 in CopenHagen).
Ergo, WOG cannot lay claim to being a fully fledged international Athletic event.

Something is rotten in Denmark, and it is not CopenHagen's valiant & honest work.
I have been very impressed with their staff's professionalism.
It is the GLISA WOG model/brand that is the problem.

What many of us are trying to do is educate many of you who are not familiar with the issue and prefer to just believe having more events is always better.
Well yes, as long as these events have credibility that they can deliver what they promised!

Is a GayGames or a WOG primarily an international ATHLETIC event or not?
When you read all the recent CopenHagen press, some of it never even uses the words 'sports' or 'athletes'!
But it does go on and on about luxury cruises, human rights, and culture.
Should the budgets for culture, conferences, and parties be balanced on the backs of the Athletes who registered for competitions they will not get?

All I am asking is that everyone take a serious look at this GLISA WOG model, and push for a SINGLE international quaddrennial... the proven GayGames in its 8th. incarnation in Koeln DE.
If CopenHagen were a EuroGames with regular EuroGames prices (registration, hotels, flights), it would have been a wonderful success without all this angst.
But as it stands, CopenHagen will not even meet previous Barcelona or Antwerp EuroGames Athletic registration#s.

BTW, GLISA does do a GREAT job with their local/regional model which makes so much more sense.
But there is simply no excuse for continuing this WOG scam on the market any longer.

Please understand that the comments you perceive as 'negative' do not come from a negative presumption or from a negative way of thinking, but rather from seeing what has been built and what has been broken down and summing up what the balance is.

Some observations:

1) The sports expertise at WOGs (regarding the running of events) is by and large outsourced to mainstream sports organizations. It is very doubtful that the LGBT community would settle for such a state of affairs in, say, a gay arts festival or a gay theatrical season. Rather, it would demand the people with strong LGBT sensitivities, ideally LGBT people themselves, would be on board running things. That does not happen with WOGs. By contrast, throughout their history the Gay Games have been run by LGBT sports organizations and athletes. In this way, we hold our own destiny in our hands and empower ourselves.

2) Some folks gush over the geographic diversity of the WOGs. Reality is that historically the Gay Games have also had strong geographic diversity; only in the last Gay Games was that diminished because of the political hostility in the marketing of the WOG and the cost inhibition that kept many Europeans and Aussies away from the Gay Games. (And when I say hostile marketing, I am reporting what I heard myself when I spoke with Montreal representatives who did not know who I was when I asked them about the Outgames. Their responses inevitably included negative and inaccurate information about Chicago rather than sports positives about Montreal. In hindsight, the most ironic of all these comments was always a warning that Chicago had no money and the Gay Games would not be held.)

3) And why is that geographic diversity seemingly valued but other kinds of diversity are not? The WOGs have shown that with their diverted attentions into no sports activities and the burden of the costs of those activities born by athletes, what gets hurt is athletic diversity (the big sports are still there in moderate numbers, but the small sports that exist on the fringes of the sports world and provide opportunities for those who are not the most team appropriate or endowed with advantages in size, speed, quickness or innate athleticism) and poorer athletes who cannot afford the inflated costs. It strikes me as somewhat callous to say that the economic hardships are OK as long as it is others who are hurt. Again, I do not think in most LGBT events or organizations that would be tolerated or admired but rather would be the subject of great protests. Why this exception for something that is supposed to be a sports event?

4) In summary, the WOGs have not added anything to the LGBT sports experience that was not there already but have in many measurements diminished what was there that was good. In many respects, I see a parallel between the decision by Montreal organizers and FGG dissenters to leave negotiations or the organization to act unilaterally without regard for others as being rather the kind of behavior many objected to in the Bush Administration. Myself, I never felt anything was gained by taking my ball and leaving, but rather by staying, competing, proving myself and the worthiness of what I had to offer -- and discovering with patience the ways in whoch I was wrong. You leave the room -- you don't learn from your mistakes.

I do not make any of these observations casually or maliciously. Those who have known me for any length of time know that I am very slow to anger, take my time to assess, and look for all the good that I can see in many things. When athletes asked me leading up to 2006 whether they should go to Outgames or Gay Games, I told them it depended on what kind of experience they were looking for. I told them that if they wanted parties and conferences, I was quite sure Montreal would be a fabulous experience because the web site even months and months in advance was loaded with information about the parties and festivals and speakers; but that I could not guarantee what kind of sports experience they would have because I was not seeing a great deal of sports engagement. I told them I knew that most of the sports in Chicago would be of high caliber -- even every Olympics has one or two clunkers -- and that I could tell them pretty accurately what the level of sports engagement was for each sport. Those friends of mine who made it to both events confirmed my impressions on all counts of both events.

Good work with the Outgames coverage, Outsports. I'm looking forward to your daily reports.

Some other media coverage:

The Advocate
The Guardian (UK)
The Copenhagen Post

A case of gay bashing in Copengahgen the evening of the Opening Ceremony of the OutGames?
Montreal Metro Article

I hope it gets better for me... I arrived early In Copenhagen this AM after nightmare in Heathrow..... ~100 SouthAfrican Ahtletes on their way to Vancouver for World Police Games.. jammed all the security stations in Terminal 3... almost missed my flight! They were cute and I took pictures... They were from Jo-Berg correctional institutions. I saw the 'World' on their uniforms, and thought WOGs... ooopps!.
ALL drinks on SAS are charged for except water.
No WOGs signage anywhere in airport, Central CopenHagen/Tivoli Dam area or in the gayer area Havnegade/theatre.. I have been taking buses and looking around. Very hard city to navigate... Everyone it seems is a tourist. No one knows where anything is. Hard language too... Every street name sounds the same, like gutteral throat clearing. Dutch is much easier... Will meet up with FGG people this afternoon. Interesting city, reminds me of any of the North Sea cities Amsterdam, Antwerp, etc.. but without the more imposing catholic churches.
The men are interesting... lots of lean blonds... But either my gaydar needs a nordic setting, or I did not see a gay man yet.
My boutique gay hotel CopenHagen Strand has wifi, but BLOCKS all porn sites!!! So much for me scoring my own Viking.
Wrestling starts tomorrow... I hope I can find it... I am determined not to start taking taxis.

LOL!

Count comparison of Chicago GG vs. Copenhagen Outgames for the Road Races:

5K---> Chicago - 298, Copenhagen - 95
10K--> Chicago - 268, Copenhagen - 129
half-marathon--> Chicago - 269, Copenhagen - 170
marathon--> Chicago - 138, Copenhagen - 48

results are here: http://www.copenhagen2009.org/Sport/Discip...ng/Results.aspx

It is a bit of apple/orangish since in Copenhagen, all races were run on the same day. In Chicago, the marathon and half-marathon were run together, but the 10K and 5K each run on different days, and different from the marathon.

I would guess that they schedule was crammed together to cut costs, but it keeps athletes from doubling up. It looks like track and field was advertised at 4 days, but taking place over 3 days. Entry counts are light and can be seen here: http://www.copenhagen2009.org/Sport/Discip...le%20final.ashx

Is it just me or do others find it odd, if not downright unnecessary, to have gay folks show up @ this event in drag or as cheerleaders? I've never been to one so that's my 1st impression. But I would think that it's a sporting event & not a gay pride parade or a drag queen/cheerleading "beauty contest", sheesh!