Hi this is my first post on here and I discovered this board through coverage of Kyle Hawkins, the missouri lacrosse coach.
Im a lacrosse player myself from Texas and im going to be a senior in the fall. This will be my 3rd year on the varsity team and I have received some attention from lower level NCAA teams to play collegiately. I am also gay and I have known that all my life. I'm not completely in the closet because I have come out to family, close friends, my coach and even a few teammates. But overall I am not out of the closet at all.
I've reached a point in my life where im tired of avoiding intimacy with my boyfriend (another gay athlete) in public and generally having to hide any relationship I am in. I am seriously worried about the ramifications of coming out to a team of mostly conservative, upper middle class suburban white kids. I am one of the better players on one of the better teams, but I wouldnt want to be a pariah on my team.
On the other hand I am tired of hiding it and I'd like to prove to people that an openly gay athlete can be just as good as anyone else. I am torn, anyone here have any advice or take on it?
Full Version: Out in lacrosse?
Good for you maksattack. I can't give you any advice since I've never been in your shoes, but perhaps Coach Hawkins can. Good luck kiddo. Be cautious & safe! 
This is obviously a decision that you should make on your own, but....
You say that you're one of the better players, so a few relevant questions pop to mind:
--How much does your team care about winning?
--Does your team believe that you help them win?
--Does your team like you, generally?
In other words, do they care about a teammate more than they would dislike gay people? I can't say my team was especially gay friendly (apathetic at BEST), but they recognize that I made the boat go faster, so they treated me just fine.
You say that you're one of the better players, so a few relevant questions pop to mind:
--How much does your team care about winning?
--Does your team believe that you help them win?
--Does your team like you, generally?
In other words, do they care about a teammate more than they would dislike gay people? I can't say my team was especially gay friendly (apathetic at BEST), but they recognize that I made the boat go faster, so they treated me just fine.
QUOTE(badger634 @ Jul 14 2007, 05:13 PM) 
This is obviously a decision that you should make on your own, but....
You say that you're one of the better players, so a few relevant questions pop to mind:
--How much does your team care about winning?
--Does your team believe that you help them win?
--Does your team like you, generally?
In other words, do they care about a teammate more than they would dislike gay people? I can't say my team was especially gay friendly (apathetic at BEST), but they recognize that I made the boat go faster, so they treated me just fine.
Generally yes and it seems like a situation similar to yours. While not particularly gay friendly, I would likely not face open hostility if I did come out. But the dynamic between myself and some of my teammates would change and I don't know if it would be as enjoyable as it is now. You bring up a good point though.
Here are some links about Dartmouth goalie Andrew Goldstein that may be of interest.
Just One of the Guys
'Now I get to be like everybody else'
Inevitably, there's a Wikipedia entry for Andrew Goldstein, which said, until I edited it, that he plays for the Long Island Lizards. He's no longer on the roster. This Outsports article has better information on his current whereabouts.
You can look up his address here: http://www.directory.ucla.edu/search.php
Just One of the Guys
'Now I get to be like everybody else'
Inevitably, there's a Wikipedia entry for Andrew Goldstein, which said, until I edited it, that he plays for the Long Island Lizards. He's no longer on the roster. This Outsports article has better information on his current whereabouts.
You can look up his address here: http://www.directory.ucla.edu/search.php
Ok... So I have no leg to stand on with this. I am gay, currently row varsity for a top school in Canada, and am baisically at the same point you are as far as being out minus the boyfriend 
.
My advice, however, would be that it doesn't get any easier to come out if you wait and get to know the guys. Further, no amount of success or accomplishment once you get to college will change this.
Here is a little personal anecdote to help illuminate my point.
There was a guy who rowed for our crew for a couple years who everyone assumed was gay. Baisically he was a bit shwishy and effeminate and generally got a repuatation for not pushing himself very hard, which people associated with being feminine and weak; essentially gay. At the outset it was good for me because it deflected any potential attention off of myself (not that I drew much). At the same time, however, watching the way that the other guys reacted to him was tough. As far as I know, no one ever said or did anything to him, but there were certainly comments. Guys would say that he was just there to watch other guys in skin-tight spandex and often when he went to shower one or two guys would think it was funny to run out and cover themselves as he walked in. The fact that he wasn't really all that good certainly didn't help anything.
Where I should have been the guy to step in and stick up for this kid, I just ignored it and, at the time, felt relieved that it wasn't me. The whole situation was shit. Looking back, I deeply regret not standing up for the kid, but at the time I was still in the JV boat and really didn't want to draw attention to myself, especially when it was the senior varsity guys who were the ringleaders in most of the stuff. Anyway, the guy left at the beginning of the same year I made the varsity boat and that was sort of the end of it. What I failed to realize was that if I had stood up for him from the beginning it would have made both our lives easier. His because maybe people would have cut all the comments and the shit and included him a bit more (let's just say when we were heading downtown or partying after competitions he wasn't the first invite), and mine beacuese I wouldn't be in the position that I am now. i.e. I am the lightweight captain, row in the heavy 8+ and essentially have built everyones expectations of who I am up so much that there will be fall-out when I come out. Baisically the crew is a lot of fun, and some of the stuff that we have done together seemed fairly innocuous as long as everyone participating was straight, but throw in that someone was gay and people willl freak.
Anyway, over the course of my time on the team, I have made a few really close frinds who I am out to, but most of the team doesn't know. For the past 3 years I have felt that I had to punch above my weight (wihtout getting into a lot of details I am small for a rower) and prove that I am on the team because I am driven to compete, driven to excell and driven to win. I felt that if I did this long enough and well enough I would be in a position where it would be easy to come out without anyone hassling me or questioning my motivation for being on the team. Hell, if they did I could ask them how it felt to be slower than a fag. I thought that all I needed was for people to respect me as a rower first and then life would be easy. Turns out this is wrong for a couple of reasons. Number one, people don't want to be respected by something they do, they want to be respected as a person. Hiding who you are, essentially lying to yourself and others is not a good way to make people respect you as a person. Two, the guys who you wanted the simple one-dimensional respect from end up becoming a big part of your social setting. Essentially they're your friends. So what's happened is that you have wound up going through the trouble and effort of building these relationships with your team-mates, who you often can't help but like, and in essence raised the stakes of actually coming out to them in that if they react badly it's only going to hurt that much more.
The reality is that you're in a shit situation. There is no easy time to come out and either way it's going to be tough. Knowing what I know now, I think I might have been better off coming out when I first hit college. At the very least it would have saved me from being implicitly involved in some stuff that I am not too proud of. I would also say that staying closeted, as I am sure you know, is not to fullfilling of an option, and you don't feel any better about yourself as time goes on.
. My advice, however, would be that it doesn't get any easier to come out if you wait and get to know the guys. Further, no amount of success or accomplishment once you get to college will change this.
Here is a little personal anecdote to help illuminate my point.
There was a guy who rowed for our crew for a couple years who everyone assumed was gay. Baisically he was a bit shwishy and effeminate and generally got a repuatation for not pushing himself very hard, which people associated with being feminine and weak; essentially gay. At the outset it was good for me because it deflected any potential attention off of myself (not that I drew much). At the same time, however, watching the way that the other guys reacted to him was tough. As far as I know, no one ever said or did anything to him, but there were certainly comments. Guys would say that he was just there to watch other guys in skin-tight spandex and often when he went to shower one or two guys would think it was funny to run out and cover themselves as he walked in. The fact that he wasn't really all that good certainly didn't help anything.
Where I should have been the guy to step in and stick up for this kid, I just ignored it and, at the time, felt relieved that it wasn't me. The whole situation was shit. Looking back, I deeply regret not standing up for the kid, but at the time I was still in the JV boat and really didn't want to draw attention to myself, especially when it was the senior varsity guys who were the ringleaders in most of the stuff. Anyway, the guy left at the beginning of the same year I made the varsity boat and that was sort of the end of it. What I failed to realize was that if I had stood up for him from the beginning it would have made both our lives easier. His because maybe people would have cut all the comments and the shit and included him a bit more (let's just say when we were heading downtown or partying after competitions he wasn't the first invite), and mine beacuese I wouldn't be in the position that I am now. i.e. I am the lightweight captain, row in the heavy 8+ and essentially have built everyones expectations of who I am up so much that there will be fall-out when I come out. Baisically the crew is a lot of fun, and some of the stuff that we have done together seemed fairly innocuous as long as everyone participating was straight, but throw in that someone was gay and people willl freak.
Anyway, over the course of my time on the team, I have made a few really close frinds who I am out to, but most of the team doesn't know. For the past 3 years I have felt that I had to punch above my weight (wihtout getting into a lot of details I am small for a rower) and prove that I am on the team because I am driven to compete, driven to excell and driven to win. I felt that if I did this long enough and well enough I would be in a position where it would be easy to come out without anyone hassling me or questioning my motivation for being on the team. Hell, if they did I could ask them how it felt to be slower than a fag. I thought that all I needed was for people to respect me as a rower first and then life would be easy. Turns out this is wrong for a couple of reasons. Number one, people don't want to be respected by something they do, they want to be respected as a person. Hiding who you are, essentially lying to yourself and others is not a good way to make people respect you as a person. Two, the guys who you wanted the simple one-dimensional respect from end up becoming a big part of your social setting. Essentially they're your friends. So what's happened is that you have wound up going through the trouble and effort of building these relationships with your team-mates, who you often can't help but like, and in essence raised the stakes of actually coming out to them in that if they react badly it's only going to hurt that much more.
The reality is that you're in a shit situation. There is no easy time to come out and either way it's going to be tough. Knowing what I know now, I think I might have been better off coming out when I first hit college. At the very least it would have saved me from being implicitly involved in some stuff that I am not too proud of. I would also say that staying closeted, as I am sure you know, is not to fullfilling of an option, and you don't feel any better about yourself as time goes on.
Excellent post Dan85!
Yes, Dan, very well said!
For me the one thing I can't speak to is doing that in Texas. I don't know your community and how conservative or liberal it is. I grew up and live on the East Coast and can tell you that I had absolutely no problems -- in fact, quite the oppositte. When I came out to my friends, I had several (male) friends even offer to go with me to gay bars and stuff if I ever wanted them to (never mind the fact that I hate gay bars).
I've played, coached and worked in the industry and no one has been anything but accepting. Lacrosse is still a very tight-knit community and, in my opinion, probably one of the most open and accepting in sports. Many of the people who are politically conservative that I know in lax are conservative for fiscal reasons, because much of the sport is still played among a more affluent community (especially at the higher levels).
I know and am friends with lacrosse players across the gamut -- including college and professional players -- and I couldn't imagine any of the ones I know to reject someone because of thier sexual orientation.
That being said, most of those friends come from lacrosse hotbeds (Maryland, New York, New England), so I dont' want to speak as if it were an absolute truth and would be true for Texas. What I will say is that I think most people are surprised when they come out at the level of acceptance. I don't bring my personal life into the high school team I coach (I dont' believe in doing so, gay or straight), but after kids graduate I do keep in touch with many of them. There were several VERY religious families on the team I coach and I can say that every single kid that came out of one of those families was totally cool with me when I thought they might have had an issue... so you can be surprised.
I think most importantly though is to ignore everything we just said. Don't feel like anyone is pushing you one way or the other and make the decision at your pace. If you are looking at low-level NCAA teams I know that your team will likely be on the east coast since there are only a handful of schools that play lax west of Ohio (and those are in the Denver area and California, so they are rather socially liberal places).
I've played, coached and worked in the industry and no one has been anything but accepting. Lacrosse is still a very tight-knit community and, in my opinion, probably one of the most open and accepting in sports. Many of the people who are politically conservative that I know in lax are conservative for fiscal reasons, because much of the sport is still played among a more affluent community (especially at the higher levels).
I know and am friends with lacrosse players across the gamut -- including college and professional players -- and I couldn't imagine any of the ones I know to reject someone because of thier sexual orientation.
That being said, most of those friends come from lacrosse hotbeds (Maryland, New York, New England), so I dont' want to speak as if it were an absolute truth and would be true for Texas. What I will say is that I think most people are surprised when they come out at the level of acceptance. I don't bring my personal life into the high school team I coach (I dont' believe in doing so, gay or straight), but after kids graduate I do keep in touch with many of them. There were several VERY religious families on the team I coach and I can say that every single kid that came out of one of those families was totally cool with me when I thought they might have had an issue... so you can be surprised.
I think most importantly though is to ignore everything we just said. Don't feel like anyone is pushing you one way or the other and make the decision at your pace. If you are looking at low-level NCAA teams I know that your team will likely be on the east coast since there are only a handful of schools that play lax west of Ohio (and those are in the Denver area and California, so they are rather socially liberal places).
I have always heard that lacrosse had a larger number of gays playing the sport than most other sports...could just be hearsay on the part of the people I've spoken to...
I do not think there are a larger number of gays -- I barely know any- I do think it is a very accepting community.
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