::claps for NoirDore:: Yeah his mouth definitely wrote a check his ass couldn't cash. Now I don't and have never lived in these "2007 Jim Crow version" towns so I can imagine that having to deal with this kind of bullshit day in and day out is going to eventually push people to the breaking point. Is it right? No. Can I understand it? Yes. Look..there are obviously some serious disagreements on the situation here. I'm not even going to get into some statements that have been said that I find appalling and reveal a lot about the people I interact with here on a regular basis. But, I also understand that we all have our own perspectives, particularly based on race. I don't expect someone who isn't black to be able to understand what its like to have to deal with this kind of stuff on a routine basis so I'll just have to agree to disagree with some on this issue. Its like that old saying...if you can't walk in someone's shoes and have actually experienced that kind of situation, your opinion is often one thats going to be taken with a grain of salt. Even I have never experienced racism to the depths that those kids in Jena seem to routinely face so even I can't say I'm in there shoes. But, I've experienced enough forms of racism from some white people (including some in the gay community...hypocrites, much? ...sidenote that!! ) that I have a better sense of their anger of being fed up with being treated like you are less than because of the color of your skin.

But ANYWHO...I must go back for a second and ask a.) who said these kids were innocent and b.) who said their skin color justified anything? Can you find me where someone said stuff or are we just putting words and thoughts into things that no one said. No the 6 were not right in jumping the one because as was stated, violence doesn't solve anything no matter how inferior they were made to feel. But, I still contend that Bell was railroaded by the legal system here. FORTUNATELY, A HIGHER COURT AGREED!!! And who exactly is trying to "minimize" things here? PUH-LEEZE!!

Like I said before...this outrage and protest is about more than the Jena 6. Its about an institutionally racist legal system in which people are using this case as a catalyst to say ENOUGH and demand equality.

My reading comprehension skills are just fine. I have no need for anyone to be putting words into my mouth. I was expressing an opinion, that no one in Jena is a saint. That is what this board is for. I do not mind if you disagree with an opinion of mine, but leave my reading comprehension skills and all other skills out of this discussion, since you don't know me from a can of paint. It only makes you look ignorant.

If you say so, but it was you that were putting words in others' mouths. While it was your opinion, no one mentioned any sort of sainthood whatsoever except for you. But if I happen to think that you missed the larger part of an issue and I call you on it, then ignorant I'll be.

I put no words in anyone's mouth. Learn to read. I was the one to use the word "saint", no one else, nor did I ever say anyone else said or used the word "saint". That was MY word. It was MY opinion. If my opinion or words that I use bother you so much, I suggest you stop responding to my posts. You are entitled to think I missed the bigger picture, if that is YOUR opinion. Sadly, this entire thread has gone completely off-track, which is not terrible surprising.

Just the entire tone of this conversation sucks to be completely truthful. It is sad that we are having this conversation.

As I mentioned before- the true problem were the events leading up to the physical altercation in the first place and a lot of people are at fault.

My opinion (if it matters LOL): The kids hanging the noose should have been charged with attempting to incite a riot or disorderly conduct (I'm not a lawyer- whichever may or may not fit) with the added hate crimes attached to it. Thus- these kids get a MAXIMUM sentence for the level of their crime...whatever that may or may not be with a lot of education...

Secondly, the kids also participating in the initial aspects of the assault should be charged with that as well... up to the point of someone being unconscious. If the kid lost consciousness and the assaulter are unable to tell what is happening to his body- it may be a reasonable charge for aggravated assault with attempt to do great bodily harm.... the truth of the matter is also that manslaughter would also be a reasonable charge... attempted murder is highly questionable.... although the DA should error on the side of caution in this case because of the young man's criminal past- so he should go with the higher charge initially....HOWEVER- these kids should also have the hate crimes sequelae attached to it as well- so whatever they are found guilty of (in this case- assault) and also receive their MAXIMUM sentence for their crime with some anger management classes...

Sidenote to Noir and Terp: You guys are better and above the whole- cashing a check business- an actually making snide comments supporting this guy getting his ass kicked. I'm sorry- I don't care what words are said to anyone... I have no idea what racism feels like (although I have been told by the director of a summer program on campus that I did not get a peer counseling job on campus because I did not have enough experience with minorities for a summer job working with at risk high school students coming to campus- LOL-), but I can tell you what homophobia feels like... I have been called faggot, queer, etc- on multiple occasions- and yet I have never ever even considered breaking the law and kicking someone's ass. I am just disappointed that you guys are joking about supporting his activities in this particular incidence. I am not sure what your intentions were in joking about it- but I give you the break and am not going to jump all over the comment too much because I think you all are better than the joke you made.

Ya know what kick...you're right...you're absolutely right. However, as you said...you don't know what racism feels like. Resorting to violence is not something that should be done no matter the circumstances. HOWEVER...I understand it, and understand that sometimes...you just have to go there. Twice in my life I've gotten into fight. One of those times was when a boy called me the "n" word. I will not tolerate it. And you can throw your anti violence morals at me all you want. I kicked his ass, got suspended, and don't regret it a bit. My parents told me that I shouldn't have resorted to fighting him and then turned around and said "but I understand it". He sure didn't even breathe the wrong way in my direction again. Now whatever he said under his breath, which I'm sure he did, I don't care. He surely didn't say anything to my face ever again that even began with the letter 'n'!! Not everything is one way or the other to everyone. Thats just not how life works. If you don't take a stand, that crap is only going to continue. So sometimes you just have to say ya know what...I am not the one...so lets get this over with so you will know that I'm not the one. You have to stand up to bullies at some point, otherwise they are going to continue. When you are constantly made to feel like less of a human being, eventually something is going to give. The particular day I got into the fight, I remember I was having a sh*tty day. See people have no idea what can be going on in someone's life to where yesterday..yeah...I may have walked away and ignored it. But today...you picked the wrong day to say some mess like that out of your mouth and so guess what...you got your ass kicked. Oh well. Does that make me a violent person because of a couple of isolated incidents; the other being when someone spit on me? I don't think so. Since high school I haven't gotten into another fight since. Same thing at work. You've got office bullies and people who call others up and cuss them out and yell at them because something isn't done right. No one does that to me cuz they know I am not the one!! Others who are passive and let it happen...well thats on them.

Its easy for us to sit here and wag our little fingers and say "two wrongs don't make a right" but I'm not in that situation. Sometimes people get sick and tired of being sick and tired. This boy went running off at the mouth because he thought he was superior to these kids, and he got his ass kicked!!!! The "cashing a check" business is not to make fun of him but to simply state exactly what happened. He spouted out his racist remarks and he ended up getting beat up for it. It was just another incident in a long line of racial incidents that had happened throughout the year. And those who are saying, "well the noose incident happened long before the fight" don't know the case and need to do some reading up on it before they think about contributing to this thread. There were a host of racially charged incidents that led up to the 6 on 1 assault. I watched Bill O'Reilly last night and Rev. Jesse Jackson was on and detailed all of the incidents that happened throughout the year. So no...it wasn't the noose incident and the 6 on 1 assault. There were many things that happened in between. It snowballed and resulted in what has now become the Jena 6 case.

I only made one comment because NoireDore's and Mdterp's comments were excellent, but look, the fact remains that no one has suggested Bell and the other Jena defendants were not guilty, just that yet again, as black people they were being treated differently under the law. We should never forget that we had to pass TWO constitutional amendments, as well more than a century of subsequent laws--

let me repeat that:

TWO constitutional amendments, as well more than a century of subsequent laws

for black Americans, who have been on these shores (north America) since 1619, to get anything approaching equal treatment under the law. It is still the case that although blacks are only 14% of arrested drug users we are more than 30% of those sentenced for drug crimes, and for longer sentences. Blacks are still disparately impacted by the legal system.

That is the core of the situation here.

Let me also add that the mayor of Jena, Murphy McMillan, is on record calling for white supremacists to come to town, and one of the young whites involved in the events also called for white supremacists to come to town. On top of which, known white supremacists have posted the names of the Jena 6's families, they have also posted personal information about Sharpton and Jackson, and are skirting the line on inciting violence. David Duke even inserted himself in the brouhaha. This was the origin of the problem, with the violence-inciting noose hanging act, and no matter what anyone says, it needs to be addressed fully.

Oh, it's not just small towns in the sticks where racial incidents and racial fights take place. Cf. New York City, Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, Los Angeles, etc.

I am not so sure the legal justice system is the one through which to deter pranks. It would make it appear to be a simple matter of "free speech" being discouraged in the minds of many supporters of the "unknowns" who hung the nooses. They could become sympathetic victims just like the Duke Lacrosse players.

Until the noose-hangers and others in this case feel free to self-out themselves in a public forum that allows everyone to understand the series of events that led to their act, we will not understand the current resurging of racism in the USA. The Jena 6 are about six-degrees separated from the fundamental cause of this situation. Until we look at the root of the initial "noose" event it we will not be possible to discourage the continued escalation of friction between the black and white communities.

Bravo, NoirDore, sportinlife, fantomas and mdterp01 (did you get my email?).*

The only thing I'd like to add is, regardless of whether the original intent of the noose-hangers was to perpetuate a prank, given the historical (and most likely known) connection of intimidation and violence to that item and its display, I think the law does come into play here -- up to and including a hate crime.

Some here might ask how is that different from a 6-on-1 ass-whupping turning from assault to attempted murder; I'd only say this:

The intent, even 6-on-1, of giving an ass-whupping being assumed to be attempted murder is far more of a deliberate reach by prosecutors than viewing the display of a noose in the south in a "white tree" as incitement or a hate crime. Everyone seems to be forgetting dude was knocked out with the first punch and the assaulters (yes, parenthically, they assaulted him**) might not even have known that in their anger.

Under these circumstances, hanging nooses is not even near a prank ultimately, and should automatically be looked at in terms of incitement, disturbance, and even viewed as a hate crime (were that charge available in Jena).

That law enforcement didn't view it that is quite telling, all the blinkered arguments here aside.

Note: To kick, who mentioned being turned down for a counseling job and being called fag, etc. Was being treated that way a condition that clouded your existence pretty much 24/7 and came up in almost everything you did? I'm not saying this country has not made some major advancements in the area of race relations, but for those who grew up in an earlier time or those that live in places who lag far behind in this regard, that is a consideration, when discussing states of minds and levels of anger.

* I'm mentioning these posters, not because of their race, but because they've made the most cogent and balanced argument here.

** That any poster here thinks posters are mentioning the Six's guilt in parenthicals to lessen their guilt is a form of "close reading" that, to me, appears to be reaching.

Reed Walter, the District Attorney, wrote an op-ed piece for the NYTimes published last Wednesday. It was no schoolyard fight, it was a premeditated group assault, the six jumped the kid, knocked him cold, and starting kicking him viciously. If another student didn't happen upon the situation, the victim might have indeed been killed. He also states again - now's a good time for you, noirdore, to use your brilliant comprehension skills - that the victim in the beating had absolutely nothing to do with the noose incident four months previous. Two different situations, two radically different crimes. If the "new" civil rights movement is to be based on this situation, it won't go far.

Violence continues to be the downfall of so many young men, especially young African Americans, and yet sometimes it sounds here like a defense of the right to be violent in retribution to any slight, imagined or otherwise. We should all fight for our right to be heard and treated fairly and equally, but when anyone minimizes or justifies inappropriate, criminal, and/or irrational behavior, their case is severely weakened. While racism still exists everywhere, each individual situation has to be weighed for its facts. Turning these kids into martyrs, which is what's happened, is short sighted.

And that makes everything he wrote the truth? He's merely putting out his side of events as the prosecutor.

Tell the whole story instead of half of it if you are going to talk about the oh so innocent victim of the assault. He was taunting the kids who beat him up in support of those who hung the nooses in addition to mocking Bailey who had been beaten up by a white guy the previous Friday. As I said in previous statements, sometimes ya gotta go there. How many gang fights are there in high schools that simply lead to suspensions and expulsions rather than full blown criminal cases like this where one can spend years and years in prison? This wasn't taunting about acne or "ooo you wear Target clothes". This was taunting about a NOOSE incident. Knowing the history of nooses as it relates to blacks in the south, that obviously is going to stir up emotions that no one but blacks in this country can relate to. The noose incident was the catalyst that began months of racially charged incidents, ultimately ending in the assault. Like I said...sometimes you have to take a stand. While Martin Luther King Jr believed in non violence, Malcolm X believed "by any means necessary" and I have equal amounts of respect for both brothas. With bullies like that, you often have to take a stand.

And if you haven't dealt with racism, then quite frankly, I can't take you seriously when it comes to this. Thats just the god honest truth. You have NO idea what its like and therefore can't throw your holier than thou moral standards out there and expect me to even remotely put any overwhelming value into your opinion. You can't relate. In this particular instance, its significant to have experienced racism when commenting on it the way some of you are. Your opinion is your opinion but these kids have to deal with this crap on a daily basis. Black students who go to the high school there said its a daily struggle. Even I never had to deal with it on that level, but I've experienced it enough to understand. Knowing the legacy of what nooses and that level of racism represents in this country and what my ancestors and family members who are still living have recounted in stories they've told me make it something that is going to eventually result in explosions like this. Fighting is a no tolerance policy so fine...suspend the kids or expel them but to send them to jail for years??? Sorry...thats ridiculous.

Umm... can you please point out where I said that the victim was related to the noose incident. I believe that I stated in a post earlier that the victim got his ass kicked because he was taunting the other students, not because he was involved in any way. So maybe you need to use your damn comprehension skills because mine seem to be working just fine.

I had already taken the drama and mess off thread in my discussion with millerbeach. I'm sure he doesn't need you coming to his defense. If you feel the need to respond to me, you can always send a private message.

An interesting commentary by black British editorial writer Gary Younge for the Guardian Unlimited suggests how this issue is being perceived beyond our shores.

For background Younge has made a sojourn around the USA commenting back home about the racial situation in this country and has always seemed to me to be well-informed on this and other issues.

Apart from the Noose... is no exception. Among the details he highlights:

-The District Attorney's thinly veiled threat to Jena's black male students:-And some excellent context to the racial history in this country:

It is commentary like this that makes me wonder if settling such matters requires international human rights.

Everything you said here can be applied to gay people--especially gay people who are out of the closet at a young age, which most people on this board were decidedly NOT. That guilt trip won't fly here.

I have trouble finding sympathy for Mychal Bell. I've heard racist and homophobic shit flung at good people, and none of them responded by rounding up a posse with the intention of kicking the assailant's face in. Does that mean the local white judicial system didn't overreact in this instance? No. But the community (and the nation) responded accordingly, and now it looks like Bell and his buddies are actually going to get LESS punishment than they probably deserve. It's a horrible situation all around and reflects badly on almost everyone involved.

The purpose of a fair trial by a jury of ones peers is supposedly the determinant of the punishment they deserve, or at least the determinant of whether or not they deserve punishment at all. This assumes that mandatory minimum sentencing does not apply, in which case the sentencing is strongly affected by someone other than the judge and jury who know the specifics of a particular case.

It is also worth noting than in many parts of the world a provocative act such as hanging a noose from a tree would have been met with a much stronger response than fist-fights among high school students.

The terrorists who attacked us on 9/11 were not Palestinians, though they used Palestine as an excuse. They probably did not personally have the rights to oil in the Middle East though that too was an indirect cause of their main grievance which was our military presence there to "protect our interests".

My suspicion is that the deeper cause of all this is the sense of powerlessness both on the part of the noose-hanging vigilantes and the violent-responding vigilantes.

Neither saw peaceful action as likely to achieve relief of their grievance.

But again, we will never know as long as the intense emotional responses continue escalating toward conflict.

Once again the homophobia vs racism point. And once again I must point out that while being bullying and taunted certainly happen to gay people out of the closet, the fact remains that it can still be hidden, which many people are able to do. You can't hide your skin color. You can hide your homosexuality to not get bullied knowing that you are in a place that you will be ridiculed for it. And I'm sure many people in the conservative south do just that. You can't hide the fact that you are black. Trust me...those black people who could pass as white back in the day, and even today...have much better lives. So lets not open up that can of worms again re: racism vs homophobia because the major difference in the two is CHOICE!!

No. You don't ever have "to go there". Its a weak minded response regardless of how much taunting, name calling, or innuendos of threat existed. What was the purpose of "going there"? What was accomplished? Did they teach the guy a lesson? The only real thing they accomplished was getting themselves arrested and now will be punished for it. "Going there" only leads to worse consequences.....escalating the level of violence only lowers yourself.

^^^ If YOU don't ever have to go there, then good for you. ::Clap Clap:: ::Hoorah Hoorah:: THE REALITY of it though is that some people feel as though you do have to go there. I went there and ended up getting suspended for it. That was my consequence. Oh well. When I explained the situation though, pretty much everyone agreed that hey...I understand. They knew that overall I was a very open minded and fair person, but that the racist situation I was involved in caused me to react in that way. I wasn't trying to kill the boy who called me the 'n' word, but didn't ever bother me again! So while you may say nothing is accomplished, I beg to differ. He learned that I am not the one, and he learned to keep his mouth shut around me. Now 6 against 1 is an unfair fight. I will say that. But it happens all the time. One of your friends gets into a fight, and then your friends jump in to help you. And yes...they have to suffer the consequences. But lets make the consequences realistic!!

Am I this terrible, violent person because I've gotten in two fights, in high school...a place where fights happen every day in every state in this country? Ummm...no! I don't have anger management issues and as an adult, I probably would ignore someone who called me the 'n' word. The difference is that high school is that time where you are already going through so much as an adolescent. So emotions are often going to result in fights. And personally, I don't have a problem with fighting given the circumstances. I will tell my children to stand up for themselves, and if they feel as though they have to resort to fighting then I know that they exhausted all options. Certainly if someone throws the first punch, I'm gonna tell my kids to fight back and defend themselves. I understand that schools have a zero tolerance on fighting and that both parties will be suspended, but I have a zero tolerance on allowing someone to think they are going to just beat on me and I'm not going to defend myself. If my kid has to get suspended, oh well. If they get into a racial situation, I'd prefer for them to go to administration and have it settled with a parent meeting first. But, should they choose to just clock the kid right off, I'm not gonna take him or her out for ice cream later. I'm going to process it with him/her and explain how some people are, reinforce them to not always resort to fighting when that happens, and also say in the same breath, "But I understand".

See...the thing that I find about a lot of blacks, particularly in the south, is that they have this mentality of "I know my place" and will therefore cater to those who would still love it to be Jim Crow era. Yes, racism happens everywhere but the "insufficient subtlety" as mentioned by the article sportinlife mentioned is prevalent in many of those former confederate states on a daily basis. But for those of you saying that one should never resort to such things. In a perfect world, that is how it should be. Unfortunately, its not that black and white.

On a side note...I would just like to say that I appreciate the commentary that has been given by ALL on this thread. I understand that we each are going to have different perspectives based on our race, gender, age, experiences, etc. I knew that this thread was going to stir sharp disagreements but I appreciate people taking the time to voice their thoughts and opinions. Its all well taken, though not necessarily agreed with.

P.S. I can't believe its the last day of September . I need to start my Christmas shopping. I've picked up a few things but I need to pick up the pace quickly. I am not gonna be rippin and running at the mall and stores for hours in December this year. I refuse!!!! The leaves are starting to change though and its starting to look very pretty. Not sure about where you guys are.

"P.S. I can't believe its the last day of September . I need to start my Christmas shopping. I've picked up a few things but I need to pick up the pace quickly. I am not gonna be rippin and running at the mall and stores for hours in December this year. I refuse!!!! The leaves are starting to change though and its starting to look very pretty. Not sure about where you guys are."
Starting Christmas shopping this early might get you a nomination to the People Who Should Be Shot thread. Its people like you who give us procrastinators a bad name. :-)

Love that!!!! I know...I just can't do it this year. We're having Thanksgiving dinner at our house this year, and are having a few Xmas parties this year; one for our friends, one for our family, and one for our business acquaintances. I can't wait til the last minute this year. But, you procrastinators hold a special place in my heart, since I procrastinate in so many other areas of my life.

"You don't know what it's like.."

Argue for your victimhood and surely it's yours. And no homosexual can ever know what racism feels like...oh, please! You get what you expect most of the time is this world until you change your expections.

"Sometimes you gotta go there.."

Again, the excuse for a gang assault. And that thoughtless, emotional reaction is what lands people in jail. But, oh no, it's not their fault. Poor boys just had to go six on one...so brave and noble. Oh, they were taunted! That's never happened before!

It just makes clear again that violence is considered an appropriate response - it's okay to some people. Herein lies the problem...and the same shit will continue on and on...

No...a white homosexual can't ever know what racism feels like. I thought that was fairly obvious. And granted being taunted happens a lot, like I said...this wasn't taunting about cheap clothes. This was taunting in support of NOOSES that were hung from a tree. Once again putting words in people's mouths. Who said it wasn't their fault? It was their fault because they made the decision to go there. Just like my consequence was getting suspended when I got into my fight. I had a choice and suffered a consequence. It was my fault. Its life. I'm not in jail from it though am I. But, ya know. I guess some of us are so perfect that everything and every situation has to be looked at in a singleminded context. Okey dokey!!

But you still have time to change!

Oh no, NoirDore, let me add coward to the list. I don't know who "we" is in this text message you sent to me, but I was only speaking with you. Do you speak for a group of people? As for the word "hypocritical" , you may want to look it up in a dictionary. Better yet, I'll save you the trouble. Go glace in a mirror and you'll get the full meaning of the word. You are correct in one regard, this IS my last discussion with you regarding this topic.

Simmer down boys. Don't make me grab my switch!!

Quit teasing, mdterp01. You know how I like my toys!

I was gonna "go there" with you but decided not to be dramatic like you. You can call me whatever names you would like to make yourself feel better but that does not change anything I've said in my posts. I disagreed with you using fact and logic but you would like to play semantics with words. Because YOU stated that our conversation was a key in drawing attention away from the initial point of the thread, I private messaged you. It only shows your immaturity that you copied that and brought it back here. I realize we probably aren’t ever going to agree on this topic, but we can agree on one thing. This conversation is done.

Terp: You said if I never experienced racism, then I cannot be taken seriously in this situation. I don't know if that is necessarily fair. I think if people come forward trying to present factual information and argue in a fair manner- it is reasonable to expect to be listened to. It could also be said in the reverse, knowing that you primarily identify with your race, should you be taken seriously when it comes to issues of homophobia? If someone has experienced hate or has been wronged based on who they are as an individual - they can identify in some manner to this case. But I believe they have to come forth with reasonable fact as well- not just emotion.

BTW- just to check to see if I have experienced racism or not- I work as a P.T. and was working with a patient with a leg fracture. I was trying to get him to get up out of bed.... essentially I wound up being called a cracker mother f**ker, told to get my white ass out of his room before he has someone come back and pop a cap in my ass... Would this be considered racism? lol

My other point to make is- even though racism has been around longer, it is no less intimidating for someone to be devalued for who they are- a woman, a Jew, a homosexual, Hispanic- there are symbols of hatred out there. If the words "Die Faggot" had been written on that tree- would a homosexual have just as much right to get his queer buddies to beat down an individual if someone else called him a faggot?

It is "relatively" and "loosely" equivalent to what occurred here. The issue of any -ism should not be devalued or graded on any level- if it demoralized or devalues a group of identified individuals, it is just as disgusting. However, at least these African American young men have legal precendence of race "somewhat" in place. In most states, some -isms and -phobic behaviors wouldn't even be recognized in a court of law.

Sorry- I totally respect and value the strength with which Noir and Terp are fighting this issue they so closely identify with. Although I disagree with the strength of some statements, I would hope that if anything happened to me that I would have the support of the gay-friendly and gay communities behind me like they are in support of the Jena 6.

Peace out- very out!

There's also the 'human' element which we all share regardless of the divisions so many try so hard to enforce and define and strengthen. There is no one here who's experienced anything that someone else hasn't felt before, for better or worse, whether in this country or beyond.

There's also the human element of cowardice, as in six versus one. Cowardice is also demonstrated by hanging a noose from a tree with all that it implies. However, one act doesn't somehow become justified or lessened by the other. Both are despicable.

Huh? Lower the dose. You are no longer making any sense.

Who knew?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1024/p09s01-coop.html?page=1

Wow, a white denizen of Jena, writing for the Christian Science Monitor, with a dissenting point of view.

Who'd'a thunk it.

Craig Franklin is assistant editor of The Jena Times. I do not know how you can tell that he is white. Does it matter? Would it have been better if this came from Jet magazine? Do you live in Jena?

See here (Google can be your friend):

http://www.thejenatimes.net/pages/staff_page.html.

Does race matter? In a case where, at its very heart and in every bit of commentary surrounding it since (from all directions), racial polarity has reared its ugly head, this question seems a bit, uhm, disingeneous and deliberately ignores the history involved.

Craig, at the very least is a white denizen of a backwater southern town which is already polarized by race (read up on some its history), who, further, has a job, whose longevity could depend on making the powers that be look good.

I honestly don't know what Franklin's motives really are, but given everything that's been said about this case, how can you assume his motives are automatically all good and innocent?

I guess the truth is always hard to accept for those who have their own black and white agenda.

I grew up and continue to live in the south. And many of my friends and neighbors are down-to-earth working class people. And the majority are minorities. We look out for each other and understand the cultural background of each. With the understanding that each is as important as the next.
And after months of discussing the Jena 6 case over backyard fences and sharing a beer seated in lawn chairs on the driveways, we all have come to pretty much come to the same conclusion. That the punishment did fit the crime.
And many of my minority neighbors thought the rally was an embarrassment. That it did nothing to ease racial tensions. In fact, my next door neighbor said the last thing we need is a bunch of ivy league pricks blowing into town and shooting off their mouths in front of the cameras then leaving. Another even said a rally should have been organized for the poor black woman tortured by that group of white supremist in West Virginia. Personally, I think that was a disgusting and horrible event.
But unless you've lived in the 'small town' south, you have no clue as to how we feel. And the support we feel towards each other. No matter what our skin color or cultural background may be. Obviously there are exceptions to this. Like the jerks who hung the noose from the tree. But they are the exceptions. The rest of us do our best, on a daily bases, to overcome this image of indifference seen on the national level.

Dude, you need to put down Gone with the Wind and that mint julep. You've indulged in a little too much of both. The darkies say what they really think when you're not there.

I was born and raised in Oxford, MS -- you know, home of Ole Miss, which required federal troops for James Meredith to enter; you know, a place where the white bus driver for the school my family integrated in 1966 required blacks to ride on one side of the bus and whites on the other, since front/back of the bus segregation was no longer legal; you know; a guy who was threatened with being lynched, because, in the heat of the moment, I slapped a white girl back who had slapped me.

So, I, too, probably know just a bit about growing up/living in the south. So swipe that broad brush just a little less widely now, won't you.

Unless you're saying Al Sharpton is an ivy league prick.

And, yes, I went to Connecticut Wesleyan University. So what? If anything, it is what enabled me to know I had to read all the literature surrounding the subject and not just that which supported any pre-conceived notion I might have, unlike some here are doing (white male privilege is dead and dying, get over it). This is how I knew who Franklin was, etc. before millerbeach posted his failed "boo-yah" link. And, FWIW, I don't read Jet.

Question: if there was no white tree, why did authorities cut it down? No white tree existed -- a beautiful, old, living tree suffered for no reason. White tree existed -- authorities concentrated on misguided actions to mishandle a polarized situation. Franklin's position can similarly be deconstructed from there.

And this is EXACTLY why my BLACK ass with my northern mentality would be strung up from a tree if I ended up moving to the south somewhere. I tend to find that many minorities who grow up in the south have an "I know my place" mentality. They will not stir the pot because of their circumstances, knowing not to "start nothin and there won't be nothin". Ungh ungh...sorry. While I'm sure there are some who believe the punishment fit the crime, I'm not one of them. If the punishment did fit the crime there wouldn't be congressional hearings over it right now. I've always said that the kids should be punished for the fight because wrong is wrong. However, make the punishment fit the crime. Baxion, I'm not saying that you and your minority neighbors fit this mentality but I believe there are many who have lived such lives with an attitude of "knowing their place" that they tend to just lay low not to disturb "massa". How that rally was an embarrassment is beyond me. It was a peaceful demonstration by people standing up for what they think is an injustice. What exactly was embarrassing about it?

And as for the Christian Science Monitor article...interesting how they are used as a legitimate source when it suits one's need to try and make a point. If I used an article from that source as some sort of argument against homosexuality I wouldn't deserve the respect of anyone on this board.

The article was reprinted in the Christian Science Monitor. Since the author works on the editorial board of the newspaper from Gena, LA, I am going to assume it appeared in his paper first. Also, don't let the title of "Christian Science Monitor" fool you. The paper is a respected source of journalism, not a mouthpiece of right-wing Christianity. It is up there with the New York Times when it comes to journalistic credibility.

Actually since the New York Times became a joke with the relentless attacks against Clinton (cf. Whitewater), the lies about Al Gore, the pro-Iraq "news" articles by neocon Judy Miller, etc.), I'd say the Christian Science Monitor probably is a more reliable journalistic organ.