Many Native American groups have been protesting the celebration of Columbus Day. In Denver, CO there were several arrests of anti Columbus activists during a Columbus Day parade. Children in school certainly are not taught the history of genocide against native first nation peoples in the Americas. The genocide committed by white Europeans against the native people dubbed 'red Indians' has been completely covered up by the media. The indigenous peoples of the Americas and Australia and New Zealand suffered a terrible Holocaust. Christopher Columbus is no hero in my book. The crimes done to natives by imperialists from Europe continues to affect the lives of people everyday.

We plan to have a glorious parade in honor of Columbus on Saturday. It is a day of celebration here in Chicago, celebrating the diversity of our fair city. By the way, Elemental, what ethnicity are you? My guess is European. Kind of like living in a glass house and tossing rocks, isn't it?

I am of European descent. But I still don't agree with celebrating the life of Columbus. I may be too politically correct but I think the celebration of Columbus is about as ridiculous as celebrating the life of Hitler. Both were white supremacists and guilty of genocide against anyone they defined as the 'other'.

Well, don't blame Columbus, he's never even been to North America.

You should celebreate Leif Erikson day or something like that.

My partner (who is native if that's really important to you millerbeach) hates this day and what he loving calls "Thankstaking" the most out of the year. Can't say I blame him.

Elemental...you are quite correct with your comments on the celebration of someone who murdered so many. Yet another American history fact that happens to be swept under the rug. Yet, there we always are talking about what other atrocity someone else is doing? Question? When has this country NOT resorted to war and murder to attain power and land?

PREACH ON ELEMENTAL!!! Two thumbs up!!!

In my home state of South Dakota, the late Governor Mickelson changed Columbus Day to Native American Day to honor the Native Americans in South Dakota.

I still think of Columbus Day as Native American Day.

Now that's a great idea.
Last year on Columbus Day I was at Monument Valley in the middle of the Navajo Indian Reservation in AZ. A wonderful place to be on this day. Then I watched a film crew shoot scenes of a western movie. Think it was '3:10 to Yuma'.

Why would that be important to me? I don't understand why you feel the need to explain your partner's ethnicity to me. I do not recall asking you about his ethnicity. Anyway, tell him a hearty "Happy Columbus Day" for me. I'll think of him while watching the parade!

It was very much of interest to you when questioning Elemental's view on the subject.

O.K., I'll bite. I still do not see how the ethnicity of your boyfriend has anything to do with what I said to Elemental. How would I have ever known the ethnicity of your boyfirend, and what does that have to do with what I said to Elemental? Do I know you? No, I didn't think so. Are you looking for approval from me regarding the ethnicity of your boyfriend? There...you have it. My approval of the ethnicity of your boyfriend. I hope you feel better. Try reading my initial reply to Elemental...I think anger is fogging your reading glasses.

On a lighter note. Columbus, and for that matter, all those explorers of yesteryear, would cross the oceans blue with extra horses. Why you ask? Because horses can't vomit. When they got seasick they would just die. So if it wasn't for the foresight of these guys, we wouldn't have gay rodeos, just a bunch of dead horse corpses rotting on our seashores. Plus, Columbus and the 'Mona Lisa', same person. (you never saw them in the same room together.
Just another pointless PSA brought to you glorious Outsports humans from one boardmember with waaayyy to much time on his hands.

Every four years during our transfer of power from one president to the next. A very peacefull transition thanks to our good old U.S. Constitution. MY COUNTRY TIS OF THEE, SWEET LAND OF LIBERTY, NOW BOW TO ME.....

HUH ??? So, Christopher Columbus murdered all the indigenous people of the US?

Lordy, and I thought Columbus was an explorer who was looking for a trading route to the Far East.

If you all want to talk about "FACT" in American history.....please realize that Columbus never set foot on American soil. And: "Scholars now believe that, among the various contributing factors, epidemic disease was the overwhelming cause of the population decline of the American natives.[18][19] After first contacts with Europeans and Africans, some believe that the death of 90 to 95% of the native population of the New World was caused by Old World diseases.[20] " Yes, many of the remaining native Americans were killed, by colonists and settlers, but that occurred many years after Columbus was long dead.

Wow, kinda sounds lilke Dubya.

You are absolutely correct, chill trick It sounds just like the first Bush and Dubya. Racist policies against Arabic people in Iraq and the people in Afghanistan.

Your post to elemetal:



Seems like the validity of his opinion hinged on his ethnicity. Him being a white European therefore made him a hypocrite for criticizing the day. Since I was explaining my boyfriend's position was similar, I thought it necessary, to ease your conscious of course, that he has a "valid" ethnicity to make such claims.

Edit: And really, you think I'm angry? It takes a lot more than random internet postings to get me riled up my dear millerbeach. ;-)

HUH?!! Did I say that he murdered ALL the indigenous people of the US? Find me the quote where I said that instead of taking your interpretation of things and running away with it! Mmmm...Elemental you are a trooper dealing with this topic. I've only responded a couple of times and some of the responses are working my nerves. Good luck.

Awww geez, all this hub bub over Canadian Thanksgiving Day....(sigh)

Illini_fan, sweetie, thank you so much for your concern of my conscious. I need no easing of it. At least you understand why I questioned the ethnicity of Elemental. As far as I know, Columbus never harmed a fly, and, more importantly, never set foot on American soil. If you were there, or could prove otherwise, I'd love to hear about it, as I have always been interested in American history. What I find most troubling is how such an innocent topic, a federal holiday no less, has turned into an ugly, race-baiting thread. I guess I have higher expectations of this board, but it seems as if every time this topic (race) is broached, it devolves into some lowest-common-denominator discussion of insults and stereotypes. It has become tedious, and it solves nothing.

Thank you, Mdterp.

But just for SteelReserve's clarification, Christopher Columbus did set foot on what's now Puerto Rico (American soil by law), the Bahamas, Cuba, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, most of the Lesser Antilles (Saint Kitts, Nevis, Antigua, Tortola, Montserrat), etc. Oh, and he had the support of Ferdinand and Isabela, who, in addition to expelling the last of the Moors, also expelled the Jews, and requested from Pope Sixtus II that he set up for them nightmarish institution that hanged, burnt, banished, and otherwise tormented homosexuals, called the Holy Inquisition!

And what did Columbus write upon first seeing the Native peoples in what's now the Bahamas?

"It appears to me, that the people are ingenious, and would be good servants and I am of opinion that they would very readily become Christians, as they appear to have no religion."

And:

"I could conquer the whole of them with 50 men, and govern them as I pleased."

One could go on, but let's just leave the fun at that.

Wow, where did you get this stuff, Fantomas? Where is it written that he wrote or said this? Perhaps he was writing that these people would be good servants of Jesus Christ, since they appear to have no religion. As a Chrisitian, I too am a servant. A servant of Jesus Christ. I do not think he is implying slavery. So Columbus was responsible for the ill policies of King Ferdinand? I thought he went there (Spain) for funding of his trip, since his home country, Italy, wouldn't pay for the trip. Gosh, I guess that makes every single American responsible for all of the ill policies of George W. Bush! Yipes!

Although it is certainly true that the arrival of Europeans in the Americas resulted in huge numbers of deaths for native peoples (who themselves were not really "native" - they were descended from Asiatic peoples who crossed to the Americas several times over the last few thousand years), it is not true that most of those deaths were intentional. As steelresolve notes, the impact of novel diseases was the most significant for native peoples.

And Columbus did nothing to kill anyone, that I'm aware of. He did begin the migration of Europeans to the Americas, but only in an indirect way. After all, it is 120 years after Columbus before any permanent colonies in the states were founded. In fact, one of the reasons the Massachusetts colonies (both Plymouth and the Bay Colony) were successful was because of the great die-off of native peoples in present-day New England in the decades before the Pilgrims landed. Those native people were exposed to these illnesses through trading with European fishermen who would cross the Atlantic periodically to fish the waters off New England. IIRC, those trading arrangements were not exploitative at all.

The history of Europeans and native peoples in all areas of the world has been pretty horrible, once Europeans began colonizing, and that is true for the US as well. We should teach the truth, but we should not go overboard and assume horrible evil intentions by all Europeans who colonized the Americas. They were racists to be sure, but should we expect people to be better than their times?

As for Columbus Day - do people still get that off?

Please, let's not make any analogies between Columbus and the Spanish (and PORTUGUESE) court with which he was intimately involved, and ALL AMERICANS, the vast majority of whom have rejected George W. Bush's vile unilateral policies for several years now. Most Americans do not agree with George W. Bush. He lost the popular vote in 2000 and had to steal it in 2004.

I know that all federal and state employees have the day off CPT. Some school districts across the country have it off to but not nearly as many as it used to be.

The Journals of Christopher Columbus, translated by Cecil Jane, New York: Bonanza Books, 1960.

Christopher Columbus's Book of Prophecies, translated by Kay Brigham, Barcelona: Libros CLIE, 1991.

The Life of Admiral Christopher Columbus, by his son Ferdinand, translated by Benjamin Keen, New Brunswick, NJ: Rutgers University Press, 1992 (1952).

Admiral of the Ocean Sea, by Samuel Morison, Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1942.

The Last Crusader, by George Grant, Wheaton, IL: Crossway Books, 1992.

Christopher Columbus: His life and discovery in the light of his prophecies, by Kay Brigham, Barcelona: Libros CLIE, 1990.

Columbus & Cortez, Conquerors for Christ, by John Eidsmoe, Green Forest, AR: New Leaf Press, 1992.
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Hmm...that seems like some good scholarly evidence to me.

And since we are quoting scholarly works...here is another about the "great" Christopher Columbus.

Examining the reputation of Christopher Columbus

I think its important to note as well that history is very subjective. Its "HIS" story. Even scholarly works are open to being refuted. However, I have heard and read enough about Christopher Columbus to know that he was not the great man history originally led us to believe he was. I mean how many historians does it take to write these kinds of articles about him before people open up their minds and think "hmm...perhaps this guy engaged in some shady things"

What are you talking about? Columbus not only left men in what's now Haiti in 1492, but ordered the kidnapping of Indians, who were brought back to Spain, on his first voyage. During his second voyage, he not only engaged in a battle with Caonabo, but he appealed to Ferdinand and Isabela to enslave the Caribs because they were difficult to control, and he ended up enslaving more than a thousand of them in what's now the Dominican Republic in 1495. In order to pay off his debts, he had the Indians in Haiti dig for gold, and those who did not find gold...well, just imagine. He may have been a Christian, but he was no saint.

While millions of Indians eventually did die, millions also were enslaved, killed, escaped to maroon settlements, and so forth. The treatment of the Indians was so cruel that Bartolomé de las Casas's denunciation of this behavior was one key factor in leading the Europeans to import Africans as slaves as a means of relief. Well, we see the horrors that plan wrought, though the Europeans got their land, new cities, unspeakable wealth, and free labor for hundreds of years....

As far as cities go, Santo Domingo dates from 1498. Colon in Panama dates from 1510. Santiago de Cuba and Havana were founded around 1514-1515. San Juan, Puerto Rico, a US city, dates, from 1521. That is well within the generation of Columbus's sons and grandchildren. And so on.

The story of Columbus is not only about the former British colonies which became the United States (Massachusetts, Virginia, etc.). Columbus died in 1506, so of course he did not set foot on what's now the US (except for the Virgin Islands, which he named, and Puerto Rico.) But the legacy of Columbus and European settlement and enslavement--and it wasn't just Spain, but also the Netherlands, France, Portugal, Sweden (yes, Sweden), Denmark, and of course, Great Britain--remains with us today.

Only trying to help honey.

And I don't think we're really going to the lowest common denominator. I think the feelings expressed on both sides of this debate are valid. While we recognize Columbus for sailing across the ocean, and though it's possible he wasn't a part of the murder of indigenous peoples, there are definitely some facts that we gloss over with the holiday. The least of which being that Columbus wasn't even the first European to discover North America nor did he even find America (why we don't celebrate Leif Erikson day is beyond me). The worst of which being that Native people were systematically persecuted in the ensuing migration of European people that Columbus brought with him.

I can understand your reverence for the holiday, but even the subjects of federal holidays are not above scrutiny. Look how much people on here question Christians and Christianity even though Christmas and Easter are federal holidays.