During World war 1, over 1.5 million Armenian men, women and children were murdered by the Ottoman Turks. The Turkish government has long denied this occured. The government has now passed the Armenian Genocide bill which acknowledges the genocide committed against the innocent Armenians. This has been along time in coming. To the general American public the genocide is unknown. Perhaps now people will learn of the sufferings of the Armenian people. Hitler developed his ideas for the final solution on what was done to the Armenians. In my view the Armenian Holocaust should be taught to school kids along side the Holocaust against the Jews. I have family members killed by the Nazis and genocide really makes me sad.

The American governemt is the one who passed this bill. The Turkish government continues to deny the genocide occured.

We're certainly selective about our genocides. Depends on how far back you go: slavery, the Native American, Australian Aborigines, etc., etc.

All involved massive death and suffering, often due to forced resettlement.

Whatever. As long as it irks the Bush administration.

And Turkey will most likely be taking military action in Iraq regardless of this declaration. It is only a matter of time before they will feel it necessary to quell the national aspirations of Turkish Kurds.

you're exactly right sport but the Turks have made even mention of the genocide a crime

so much for a democracy

On the flip side, in France it is illegal to deny the Armenian genocide.

Is there a difference?

Having a very well-connected, affluent, and politically active constituency certainly makes the selection that much easier for our "noble" leaders.

A former partner who lives in Toronto was Armenian. Visiting his family for holidays was quite an experience. There were two rules. 1) Indulge yourself with a lot of Rice Pilaf 2) Never discuss Turkey or the Turkish people.

Unlike the Jewish Holocust, Armenians feel their story was ignored and forgotten by the world. There is a huge amount of resentment and anger toward Turkey/Turkish people.


There are still a couple hundred thousand Armenians who survived the Turkish/Ottoman Empire's onslaught to extinguish them from Turkey in 1910's.

Just recently, the face of the Armenian activism ( forget his name) who had made significant progression for the Armenian cause while making allies within the liberal elements of Turkey's academic community was gunned down in Istanbul. Who gunned him down? A 17 year old kid. At the site of the murder, Istanbul policemen took photographs with the gunmen with the dead corpse in the background while holding Turkish flags. The kid was let go and released from jail. However, after Turkish outrage at the incident, the kid was arrested and jailed after a sever backlash from Istanbul's more modern Turkish population.


Kudos for this measure passing in America. Does it surprise anyone GWB is on the wrong end of the argument? Turkey is starved to become a full fledged member participating in European affairs. Turkey needs America/Europe a lot more than we need them. If they can't admit their mistakes, then that's their issue.

Though I agree with the sentiment PS4ever, I suspect that the Armenian constituency has no more (and probably less) influence on the decision-making of the current US administration toward Turkish Armenians than the AIPAC lobby does on our slavish behavior toward the policies of Israel in the Middle East.

Their reasoning (both publicly and privately for a change) has to do with Turkey's strategic military importance in the Iraq War, just as Israel is strategicly important in protecting the US's military-industrial complex's interests in Middle Eastern oil.

Subtract the Iraq War and big-oil and I suspect the military/industrial alliance would quickly lose interest in either. Only the religious fundamentalists (both Christian and certain Jewish sects) would support unwavering support of Israel (so that it can be destroyed for their Armagedon or rebuild the Greater Israel respectively) and only the power-hungry would support an alliance with Turkish ultra-conservatives who want to ignore the Armenian mass killings.

Atom Egoyan's (Where the Truth Lies) 2002 film Ararat looked at the Armenian genocide. I never did see it, however.

I'm a little biased on this subject since my partner is Armenian. He and his family have lots of horror stories about what really happened in the Armenian genocide, and his grandmother was a survivor. His grandmother was only 5 or 6 years old and watched as her parents and all of her siblings were murdered in cold blood in front of her. His grandmother has now died too, but my partner said she would always begin crying almost uncontrollably whenever she was asked to recount the story for others. It's very sad.

Another issue that the Bush administration is on the wrong side of.

An interesting article on salon.com about the bill passed in the U.S. re: this topic.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/kamiya/2007/1...cide/print.html

I was thinking of this in relation to Turkey's petition to be fully included into the European Union. I wonder if the EU's condition to Turkey that its government has to accept the Armenian genocide to join them is just an excuse for deeper and atavistic historical resentments (the Ottoman Empire's rule for centuries) and its relation to Islam (even though Turkey is one of the most - if not the most - liberal/secular countries of the Islamic world), and keeping in mind the huge Muslim diaspora in Europe and the tensions this has provoked...

Contrary to the perception that this is a partisan issue, many Democrats in leadership positions, including all living former secretaries of state, are also in opposition to this resolution (although the kneejerk reaction to categorize it as such does not surprise me).

The Democratic Chairman of the House Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe (CSCE) and the Democratic Chairman of the House delegation to the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, both oppose it. Rep. John Murtha, a hero to many on this board, also opposes the resolution.

Washington Post: Support Wanes for Armenia Genocide Legislation

The Democrats can't even get century-old crimes condemned, never mind the one America has been perpetrating in Iraq for 4-1/2 years. Pathetic.

While morally the motion was probably correct, politically is was dumb considering the war you are fighting and Turkey's role as a supply route. Bad timing.

Agreed, swimminbuff. Supplies can be rerouted, other issues with Turkey are more critical, as have been outlined by others here and in the media. I simply don't understand why this is the moment to do this--particularly given domestic politics in Turkey. There are those internally that delight in having an issue such as this that lights the fires of Turkish nationalism and anti-Americanism. (That said, Turkey is an incredible place to visit. But what do I know, I kind of like Baghdad!)

I certainly do not question the motivation of Rep. Tom Lantos (D-CA-12), who has been championing this issue for many years, driven in many respects by his own personal history as the only Holocaust surviver elected to the House (Lantos was born in Budapest and was a member of the anti-Nazi Hungarian resistance).

I worked with Mr. Lantos and his staff in the mid-1990s following the collapse of the former Soviet Union when I was on the staff of an international development foundation that was among the first to begin operations in Armenia, even during the time of the crisis with Azerbaijan. Lantos has always been a champion of the Armenians, both from the perspective of the "right thing" and the incredible strategic value of the Caucasus to the United States. (Note that in no small part due to the efforts of the Armenia political lobby in the US, in those initial years following the collapse of the fomer Soviet Union, the United States was statutorily prohibited from providing direct foreign aid to Azerbaijan--which in terms of natural resouces (oil and natural gas) and Caspian ports was argually more in the interest of the US to support than Armenia.)


For the Speaker, I suspect her motivations are more political (which is life in the Speakers chair no matter which party occupies it). However, I am surprised that she would ally herself so strongly with an effort that pits her against the leaders of her own caucus, and as a leader of an effort likely to fail. But, again, the Armenian political lobby in the United States, which has its heart in California, is VERY strong, has deep pockets, and is not afraid to dig into them for those that support Armenian causes.

I am still trying to figure out why this bill is before Congress. First, it's just bad politics in that it will alienate and possibly irrevocably damage our relationship with our best Muslim ally, one we can ill afford to p*ss off these days. Second, I just don't understand what this is supposed to accomplish or why this particular act of ethnic purging should get recognition. Why not recognize the genocide of the Native Americans by Americans and Canadians? Why not recognize the genocide of Aborigines by Australians? How far back do we go with recognizing these things? If Congress had put half as much effort into solving the genocide in Rwanda, or looked to the slaughter going on in Darfur, something that are going on *right now* where their actions could make a difference...

I don't say any of this to minimize the suffering of these people, but this all just strikes me as some touchy-feely way of deepening the scars of victimhood. Almost none of the immediate victims are alive anymore and practically none of the perpetrators are. I just don't know why this is such an issue.