About ten days ago I preached the annual Matthew Shepard Memorial sermon at our church, Trinity Episcopal, in Seattle.

Reaction was very positive, and one result may well be that we will move to being an Open, Welcoming and Affirming congregation.

I was going to post the whole thing here, but decided to link to it. So, if you're interested, please go to: http://www.trinityseattle.org/news/sermon/habakkuk-11-6.html

Nat

Nat, I don't know the answer but I do have to have faith that the House of Bishops will continue to work with the Anglican Communion for equal inclusion for all. Right now, I would rather take a seat at the back of the bus before I'd want to see the Episcopal Church separated from the Communion. We've come along way in the past 20 years and I have confidence we will continue to move forward.

You do realize that if wealthy, conservative Americans (like the Adolph Coors Foundation) stopped giving the African Dioceses millions of dollars, we wouldn't have this trouble. The African Bishops and Archbishops are allowed to have multiple wives, but no one says a frickin' word about that.

The AC is a relatively recent invention - about 1880 - and an accident of British colonialsim: to put it in perspective.

But if the bishops agree not to do anything until there is consensus in the greater community - which they have done - I'm afraid that seat at the back of the bus is going to be there for a long ride.

Frankly, I see no harm at all in the AC breaking up. There is simply too great a distance between progressives and ultra-conservatives, and as long as the ultra-conservatives are enabled to dictate the agenda and the pace, I can see no chance of moving forward in my lifetime.

I believe something quite good will come of a breakup: the splinter breakaways will splinter still more, and fade off the map (like the reform episcoplians that broke away in the 19th century); the ultra-conservatives will do their thing - and eventually the large, western, progressive church will come along. In other words, what is going on in ECUSA (and Canada, and though they try to hide it, the C of E) is prophetic. If we turn away now, we'll have risen to the occasion - and then deflated.

It's an interesting footnote that while priests in the UK are being legally married - and blessed! - the Africans are obsessed with the US. In other words, at least some of the current battle is anti-Americanism. It's also interesting that there are few, if any, African women priests, and no women bishops. Do we want to ally ourselves with that - let alone promise not to do anything until they come along?

We broke with the C of E in 1776 (ECUSA is an offshoot of the Church of Scotland); we broke with King George...

Nat

The Africans have problems with ECUSA because wealthy American conservatives are paying them to. Peter Akinola (or whatever his name is, I prefer the anti-Christ) is the ringleader.

Women have been Priests for 25 years and they're still not fully accepted.

I'm not so sure about splintering. If a conservative diocese wants to leave and align themselves with Akinola, fine; leave. And don't forget to leave the key to the church with someone because they gave that up, too.

Don't blame the church. Even if we were allowed same-sex civil unions, the government still won't. I know that my Rector, my Surfragan Bishop, and my Bishop all recognize me and my partner. And I sat five feet from Bishop Robinson at the last general convention when he said, "if all love comes from God, how can ours be wrong." I served on the Vestry and as both Junior and Senior Warden and never felt like I was viewed as a second class Anglo Catholic.

If I'm good enough for my Rector, Bishop, Presiding Bishop, Parish, and God, that's good enough for me.

Nat - good Sermon - well done!

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While there are certain African Bishope who are the ringleaders, they are not alone.

Unfortunately even many American Bishops like Rev. William H. Love, Bisop of Albany, NY; are determined to forge a more 'conservative' path. (He stated this past summer "...If the Episcopal Church breaks with the Anglican Communion, we [as a diocese] will not..." and termed Bishop Robinsons investiture as a " ...a horrible mistake...", etc.

On the other hand, among those African Bishops whose stand is unequivicol and encouraging is The Most Reverend Dr Desmond Tutu for example.

My own Bishop, Rt. Rev. Thomas Ely, of Burlington, stated it best when he said:

"...the discontinuity between this expressed commitment and the current circumstance within The Episcopal Church is both glaring and unacceptable to me. I believe we should have stated more clearly our current failure to stand on the side of complete justice and full equality for all persons in our church. ...

...I regret that once again we made our gay and lesbian members the object of our discussion, something that by its very nature is a form of oppression. I ask for more than patience and forbearance from those so oppressed by our words and actions: I ask for forgiveness...

...I pledge to continue working for both the full inclusion of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered persons in the life of the Episcopal Church and for the full and dynamic participation of all members of the Episcopal Church in the mission and ministry of the Anglican Communion. Either one without the other would represent to me a failure on our part to live into the fullness of God’s saving grace, glory and hope for the world. I pray that you will join me in this work...."

Personally, while I feel that the apology was heartfelt, and I am not yet ready to leave my church; I still feel the cold hard sting of a slap across my face. I am not encouraged.

Rob

Next month I am scheduled to attend a conference where Rt. Rev Dr Tibesigwa, Bishop of Uganda, is scheduled to speak; it should be interesting in a vile sort of way.

I did leave the church this year and it was one of the best decisions that I've ever made

I am now attending a UCC church in town

The entire ECUSA would need to turn conservative before I'd ever consider leaving. I need my weekly fix of incense and the Eucharist. Besides, the folks at my partner's Presbyterian church stare at me when I cross myself.

Black Day for Episcopalians.

"Episcopal Diocese Votes to Secede From Church

By NEELA BANERJEE
Published: December 9, 2007

FRESNO, Calif., Dec. 8 — The Diocese of San Joaquin voted on Saturday to cut ties with the Episcopal Church, the first time in the church’s history a diocese has done so over theological issues and the biggest leap so far by dissident Episcopalians hoping to form a rival national church in the United States...

...Two other dioceses, Pittsburgh and Fort Worth, out of 110 in the Episcopal Church held their first votes this fall. Bishop Schofield estimated that another six or seven might follow suit, though he declined to name them, and that together they would form a new Anglican province of North America, marginalizing the Episcopal Church. ..."


Sad.

Rob

Let them marginalize the US Episcopalians all they want. Hey, marginalization has been a part of the Jesus movement since day one. I stand proud as a marginalized member of society, rather than sucking up to a bunch of repressive and oppressive morally superior institutional religious leaders...At least I have good company as a marginalized member of the society, ie Jesus. That deserves a triple !

...The brood of vipers are coming up for air once again.

The bishop of San Joaquin wouldn't even ordain women, something the rest of the Episcopal (or at least 98%) have been doing for 20 years. He also went on a witch hunt to oust gay priests from his diocese before Gene Robinson was elected bishop. Even if Pittsburgh and a handful of others decide to take the same action, so be it. I'd rather they not be part of my church.

Yeah, I knew that. I agree w/ you, let these conservative wackos move on. Who needs them?!