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bridgeportjake
QUOTE(JC @ Nov 1 2007, 07:22 PM) *

Martina! Way to get yourself back in the headlines, girl! biggrin.gif

I really hope the backstory is completely and totally sordid. I know it's a "black eye" on the sport and all, particularly in the wake of Davydenko receiving yet ANOTHER rebuke today for his double faulting. But I really think tennis needed a good shot in the arm, women's tennis in particular. What better than a nice big juicy scandal? (I'm personally hoping she was caught by Stepanek snorting it off of Djokovic's racquet...) SO much better than boring old doping.

I think it was time for her to go anyway, although it would have been cool to see her and Lindsay match up one more time... Oh well! At least she went in style. Hopefully this doesn't scare folks away from inviting her to comment on TV. She's got a great tennis mind.
Munson Man
I'm in total shock and so is my dealer.
Maddog
QUOTE(bridgeportjake @ Nov 1 2007, 12:33 PM) *

SO much better than boring old doping.


I totally agree. This is much better than finding out that Brett Favre took HGH in the off season which I know is going to be revealed any day now. wink.gif

mdterp01
I should be shocked but...nothing shocks me anymore. What a sad and pathetic way to end your career.
Bryan
Weird and unexpected to say the least. Who's her public relations person? Fire them immediately. What a stupid way to retire. If the allegations are false, you fight them, you release a very definite, very firm statement about your innocence. You don't retire as a reaction to the accusations. And if the WTA knew nothing about her positive test at Wimby, where the hell were they during the tournament? Do players get drug tested without anyone from the WTA either witnessing the results or overseeing them? Hellllllllloooooooo?

Her play has been subpar the past few months and instead of her fans and tennis fans around the world understanding that her feet are probably never going to be fully healed while still playing, and that she's simply not capable of regaining her place at the top of the game, now everyone will wonder if coke has been her achilles heel, pun intended.

Cocaine has always been rumored and talked about as a drug of choice for professional tennis players - back to Borg who was whispered to have had a serious problem leading to his retirement...who knows if there's any truth to that, but an elite european set of athletes no doubt are constantly exposed to the drug and perhaps embrace it like its 1979...
LarryC
Regardless of what Hingis's personal predilections might be, it seems almost unimaginable that a savvy veteran like her wouldn't realize she'd get nabbed on a WTA drug test. That's why I find this so hard to believe.
Gaga4Gaby
I'm stunned. So stunned that I don't know how I feel about it yet. I had really grown to like Hingis in her comeback. I felt like it was looking more and more like a short return, but still ... this is something I wasn't ready for.
voicemale1
Here's some questions: 1) Why was she tested at all? 2) Do the WTA & ATP conduct player tests at random? If so, I thought they'd be testing for sterioids, not narcotics - or are both types of testing done as a matter of policy?

I can understand if they were routinely drug testing someone like Capriati for narcotics, since she'd been arrested for marijuana possession while she was off the tour the first time. But I'm curious to know why Hingis was given a drug screen in the first place. And, does this mean Radek Stepanek is next on the list to either get a test or also be disclosed, since he was engaged to her less than a year ago?

The mind reels. First the Match Fixing stuff, now Hingis the Cokehead. Next will be all the disclosures about which of the (probably numerous) pros is living in the closet!!
JC
QUOTE(voicemale1 @ Nov 2 2007, 03:34 AM) *

Here's some questions: 1) Why was she tested at all? 2) Do the WTA & ATP conduct player tests at random? If so, I thought they'd be testing for sterioids, not narcotics - or are both types of testing done as a matter of policy?



Strangely enough, they do seem to be talking about it as if it were banned as a performance enhancer:

"They say that cocaine increases self-confidence and creates a type of euphoria," she said. "I don't know. I only know that if I were to try to hit the ball while in any state of euphoria, it simply wouldn't work

(Then again, she did lose to Laura Granville!)
Gaga4Gaby
QUOTE(JC @ Nov 2 2007, 01:24 PM) *

(Then again, she did lose to Laura Granville!)


ha ha ha ha ha

I wonder if, to some extent, this isn't just an easy way for Hingis to retire again. She was never a fighter. She relied on the gifts that always came naturally. When it got tough the first time around, she used the ankle injury as an excuse to leave the game rather than address her lack of power. She came back for a year and it went so well, but then 2007 was a different story. The positive test result was probably as good a reason as any to quit again. I do think Martina's injuries are legit. I just also have always felt like she's not the type of player who'll fight through the pain for a win; the couple of times she tried to fight - French Open final against Graf and Aussie Open final against JennyCap come to mind - she lost. Those types of results seemed to make her less inclined to dig deep for win.

This retirement is a first and is certainly a memorable way to go. Hingis has always enjoyed the melodrama.
shep71
This whole thing is a bit bizarre. I am with G4G on this one...I'm not sure what to think of it.

It sure shows how this little rollercoaster works though. She was the darling, and then she wasn't, and then she really wasn't. Then she comes back, and everyone loves her, and now they don't. I just don't think I would want on that ride.

Lucky for me, I needn't worry about it, since about every other one of my forehands goes into the net!
Two-hander
QUOTE(voicemale1 @ Nov 2 2007, 03:34 AM) *

The mind reels. First the Match Fixing stuff, now Hingis the Cokehead. Next will be all the disclosures about which of the (probably numerous) pros is living in the closet!!


Bring it on, though that's so unlikely.

I've been thinking about all this for a while. First, it's ridiculous when fans of other players or people who hate Hingis get all high and mighty and Nancy Reagan-like. Give me a break. So she made a stupid mistake.

Coke was a big part of a lot of past pros lives (Gerulaitis, McEnroe, Wilander). Obviously it's stupid to use coke, especially on the regular -- though I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't try it once! tongue.gif But on a gay board especially I'm glad to see some jokes instead of hang-wringing, because her being accused is a total coke-mountain-out-of-a-coke-molehill situation. Does anyone really think cocaine was effecting Hingis? Well, now it sure as hell has. I feel so much safer now, as a citizen and as a tennis fan. rolleyes.gif

The idea of Hingis partying at Wimbledon is really believable. (Even likable, to me, anyway.) It was her first tournament back after a while and she's been upfront about her ambivalence regarding the game and all that comes with it. In fact, I think that kind of ambivalence toward tennis runs as deep through her career as it does someone like, um, Capriati's.

Hingis was named after Navratilova and trained to win Slams. Her mom Melanie probably painted her crib to look like a tennis court!

Her rebellious streak has boiled over before in bratty fashion on center court at Roland Garros. Now it's become manifest in a different way, and this time I'm more sympathetic.

It's a shame if she gets the cold shoulder from the networks and tennis establishment for going out like this, if it really is the way she's going out. She deserves a better exit. Something like being inducted into the Hall of Fame (will she?) sure will be awkward if the final chapter of her pro career is a coke bust.

ps: Considering how sharp-tongued Hingis can be, I shudder to think what heights of verbal bitchiness she has reached after a quick toot.

pps: Peter Bodo's book Courts of Babylon has a great passage about some times he talked with Chris Evert where she was obviously as high as Snoop. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
tealsea
This is crazy. Retire instead of fighting the "allegations?" Why doesn't she just admit she did it? Might as well. Not fighting it sort of means you give in. What a bizarre turn of events.
Tennis Guy
OK, you guys must have known I'd chime in on this one. tongue.gif

Let me start by saying Hingis force-fed me heaping helpings of crow with her comeback. I remember saying she wouldn't even make it back into the top 20, she'd only stay around for a few tournaments and would leave again, etc....

And she made it back to #6 in the world, made the year-ending championships, won a tier 1 event and did OK in two of the slams. As much as I've never cared for her attitude or her mouth, those are some pretty great accomplishments after three years away from the game, even if the Williams sisters were all but absent at the time and injuries were running rampant among the top players. Seriously, I would have never imagined it.

The talk then became about defending those points. Could she or would she do so when the "comeback honeymoon" was over? Did she over-achieve just to get back into the top 10? Would she stick around if she never got near to #1 ever again? Would she still want to play if she wasn't really contending for slams?

If you check my postings over the last year, I must have said "I wonder how long she'll stick around if she's not winning" at least a gazillion times...well, OK, more than twice. tongue.gif I remember saying I'd be even more impressed if she stuck around and played for a long time without being a serious threat than I would be with the actual comeback's success, because that would prove how much she truly loves the game and loves being out there competing.

Well, as Gaga said, she doesn't like the heat, at all, and once again, is getting out of the kitchen. There's just something irritating about the way she chooses to leave, though. The real irritation comes in the way she tries to "justify" it.

Her first retirement was a convenient injury excuse. I, too believe she may have been injured. To the point of retiring with a 22 year old body that still has the ability to heal pretty quickly? Uh...no. Maybe, though, because of the more and more frequently occurring (at that time) beat-downs suffered at the hands of Lindsay, Jenny, Serena, and Venus? Uh...yeah. The "justification" came as a ridiculous lawsuit against the sneaker company claiming it was their fault she was injured and had to retire.

Bitch, please. rolleyes.gif

And now this.

I have to say, if this is a mistake, that just plain sucks. I know mistakes have been made in the past with drug samples, and the horrific damage they can do to someone's reputation. The "B" sample having the same result seems to make it less likely for me to believe, but recent events could have had a more favorable bearing on this.

If she had come out saying "I'm going to fight this, and defend my credibility and my good name" with a vengeance, I think it would speak volumes about her innocence. If she were to try and focus on the game while doing so (as tough as that would be) and continuing to show her love for the sport despite this adversity, that would speak volumes about her character as an athlete.

Saying "I'm quitting 'cause I don't want to play with this hanging over me, and nuh-uh, I didn't do it" is tantamount to stamping her foot on the ground and saying "I'm guilty, and I'm taking my bat and my ball and going home."

Dignity has never seemed to be her forte. I guess it only makes sense she'd have two undignified exits, and that she is effectively, for all intents and purposes, becoming the Petr Korda of the WTA.




LAKERSRDABOMB
Hingis may have been planning to retire anyway. Why bother fighting the charges? As you all know she's always been a favorite of mine! Not the best way to go out, but for sure why fight on the court and off it? BTW I always thought she looked like a "Party Girl" As for HOF, her credentials scream out for it!
Bryan
She has now stated very clearly that she's never taken drugs. If Canas and Rudetski's cases are any measure, clearly it does take way too long for these accusations to get addressed and resolved. It just looks weird to do it so abruptly, though she has voluntarily come forward and that counts. I wonder how a drug test comes back false positive for cocaine? Does this happen often? What would cause that result if it wasn't cocaine?
TC
Gee whiz, another athlete saying they are innocent of using banned/illegal drugs. Sad to see this happen but just once I wish the athlete (Bonds, McGwire (sp), Landis) would just own up to it.
Gaga4Gaby
I have to say that I do think there's alot of common sense in Hingis saying that she couldn't compete while on cocaine. I've never done coke personally, so I don't know exactly how it affects you, but I did play tennis after having a margarita once and got nailed in the nuts while trying to approach the net. ha ha ha. The point being that I think recreational drugs would inhibit the precise coordination a world class athlete needs to have.

Now, does it tax my imagination that at times in her life Hingis could have done drugs? Not at all. Especially during her retirement. "Never" seems like a stretch as well. The truth, as it so often does, probably lies somewhere in the middle.
JC
Hingis taking cocaine at some point in her life wouldn't surprise me, but it does surprise me that she would be doing it during Wimbledon even at a party. I realize the effect is short-lived so it wouldn't directly affect her on the court, but she certainly knows she could be subject to a drug test. It seems kind of dumb under those circumstances...though maybe your assessment of her character, Twohander is more accurate than mine. Safin testing positive wouldn't have surprised me at all.

My theory is that tennisguy switched the samples on her.
B-Boy
Arriving rather late on the scene... but felt like I'd weigh in with my perspective anyway!

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure Hingis was going to retire anyway at the end of this year or not far into next (I could see her hanging on for a final, what-the-hell crack at the French if her body held up) - so I do not think that her chosing to retire rather than exist in a probationary state is automatically a declaration of guilt. I can understand the sentiment of simply not wanting to be subjected to a long drawn-out (and costly, though that is probably of lesser importance to Hingis) battle of legal proceedure. Perhaps she is willing to trade her potential legacy in order to avoid that stressful circus. I have to say that if she is innocent, I do not really think this is the correct option for her, but I can absolutely understand why she might choose it.

The issue of guilt or innocence is much harder to interpret, naturally... she failed both Wimbledon samples, but I have also read about a hair sample which was apparently negative? I don't know enough about the process of testing for cocaine to know what the hair sample really signifies. I would assume that the standard drug tests given to players involve testing for any and all banned substances, not just those which are noted for enhancing performance... so I don't think it is abnormal for them to have tested for cocaine, given how prevalent the drug is in the world at large.

My instincts are torn, really... on one hand, I would be highly surprised if Hingis had not snorted the odd bit of coke in her life, but I would be equally surprised that she wouldn't be smart enough not to take any while competing on the tour due to the obvious drug testing that takes place. I don't think the aspect of performance enhancing is really relevant at all... the effects of coke would be of questionable benefit in a tennis match (I'd say detrimental, even) and to get any substantive effect in a match you'd need to be snorting/dropping it pretty close to the start of the match, and that becomes unlikely for many reasons.

I feel really rather sorry for Hingis with this one. I hated her once upon a time, but grew to appreciate her rather a lot. I don't believe she's some coke-guzzling addict who is fueled by the drug (if this were the case, she'd have failed tests before, there would likely be a visible indicator or two from interviews, paparazzi photos, etc, etc) - at best, she is innocent and has suffered a testing debacle as several athletes have in the past - at worst, she snorted a couple of lines at a party near Wimbledon time and got busted.

I truly hope that people will show a little common sense if she is guilty... maybe I'm a dreadful liberal, but I really do not see anything much wrong with recreational drug use provided you are not hurting anyone in the process. If she willfully took it, it definitely wasn't a smart thing to do in the circumstances, but the idea that she was taking it to gain an unfair advantage in a sporting sense is madness. Coke is great if you want to party for 3 days straight, but it isn't gonna do your hand-eye coordination a lot of good! I really do hope that her results and achievements are not brought into question over this.

B
Two-hander
QUOTE(JC @ Nov 3 2007, 06:13 PM) *

Hingis taking cocaine at some point in her life wouldn't surprise me, but it does surprise me that she would be doing it during Wimbledon even at a party. I realize the effect is short-lived so it wouldn't directly affect her on the court, but she certainly knows she could be subject to a drug test. It seems kind of dumb under those circumstances...though maybe your assessment of her character, Twohander is more accurate than mine. Safin testing positive wouldn't have surprised me at all.

My theory is that tennisguy switched the samples on her.


laugh.gif

Yeah, I think it helps to remember these athletes, even ones who play up their Cruella DeVille characteristics, are human. I just get the impression -- from what she said at the time of Wimbledon, how she played then, and what's coming out now -- that Hingis played Wimbledon because she missed it. That type of situation can be ripe for unwise impulsive choices. She's still in her 20s even if she's long acted the part of bitchy grand dame. Maybe once she was in London she realized she wanted to be there for the partying more than the tennis.

Besides the Granville loss, even her first round win was plenty loopy, if I remember.

This is all speculation, of course. As is the case with all these athlete drug situations, who knows? Only the one who did or didn't do it, and they'll have it on their conscience.

If Hingis partied, that's the only reason she should have come clean about it, and the only thing that bugs me about her denial (since I think she probably did do it).

But I can see why she'd deny it and pack her bags. She's seen the impact this kind of thing had on Capriati. She's not exactly Sesil Karatancheva, in terms of the drug choice and the career. If she came back dealing with this, the atmosphere would be far from a victory lap with fawning Carillo coverage. She'd be getting the cocaine version of the Scarlet Letter treatment.

Looks like we can only wait and see what the further tests reveal. I'd love it if anyone here could explain how a hair test might be better/more accurate than a urine test. I'm clueless about these things, and always wish I understood tennis drug testing better. Do they actually collect hair from the athletes as well?

Gaga, I love your margarita story. In my lowdown heyday I've put Hingis to shame, but I don't go stronger than a glass of wine these days. Playing tennis drunk would be tiring! And dangerous too, I guess! tongue.gif
JC
I read on another board that drugs remain in hair much longer (naturally), so you can test whether they were using drugs months ago--unless it's James Blake of course! However, they also said the hair test was less sensitive, so if she used cocaine once or twice in three months, it might not show up. On the other hand, I don't suppose the masking agents that are often used to beat urine tests would work. I think blood tests are supposed to be more accurate.

(all hearsay. I don't actually know anything except what I've read elsewhere)
mdterp01
Clean it up coke whore! Sorry...couldn't resist. laugh.gif

IPB Image
Tennisjocknbucks
I really doubt the claim of the drug test. The WTA Tour offically has not confirmed the test as they stated on their website.

One of the tennis pros I work out with used to train with her (Hingis) in Bradenton. He said she was so careful on anything she did to her body.... at dinners or R&R time she was always good. He used to live across the street from her.

The tour needs her more than she needs the tour. WIth her injury and if she were to fight a "possible" charge would be too much.
Bryan
She definitely doesn't seem like a coke whore. And if someone did it just before a grand slam match they'd have to be an addict cause that would be mighty silly...

Perhaps the problem was that her boyfriend was doing the blow, he was than intimate with her, and we all know how messy those fluids can get...

smile.gif
SCTrojan
Coke is soooo totally 80s! tongue.gif laugh.gif

QUOTE(Munson Man @ Nov 1 2007, 11:59 AM) *

I'm in total shock and so is my dealer.


FLMAO!
George Twins fan
Even though she has "retired", Hingis has been banned for 2 years.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/ne...tory?id=3180666
ball crusher
QUOTE(George Twins fan @ Jan 4 2008, 11:22 PM) *

Even though she has "retired", Hingis has been banned for 2 years.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/ne...tory?id=3180666

OMG. On the same day as the Britney meltdown!
B-Boy
Here's where I start to get even less thrilled by the anti-doping measures... I can understand putting heavy penalties in place for substances which have a clear and established benefit within a sport (steroids such as nandralone, for example) - but cocaine is hardly a wonderous benefit to an athlete. Of course, it's an illegal substance, and as such we cannot really have a situation of tolerance, despite its widespread use in society... but really, in the name of common sense, a two year ban given to a player who has retired anyway for a substance of questionable benefit seems like overkill. Ah well... the real question will be whether it affects her future hall of fame entry... I truly hope it won't, as it should not have any bearing on what she achieved at her peak.

B
bridgeportjake
QUOTE(B-Boy @ Jan 5 2008, 03:48 AM) *

Here's where I start to get even less thrilled by the anti-doping measures... I can understand putting heavy penalties in place for substances which have a clear and established benefit within a sport (steroids such as nandralone, for example) - but cocaine is hardly a wonderous benefit to an athlete. Of course, it's an illegal substance, and as such we cannot really have a situation of tolerance, despite its widespread use in society... but really, in the name of common sense, a two year ban given to a player who has retired anyway for a substance of questionable benefit seems like overkill. Ah well... the real question will be whether it affects her future hall of fame entry... I truly hope it won't, as it should not have any bearing on what she achieved at her peak.

B

This whole thing is an insane joke. It will be even worse the day a player gets tested and banned for pot use, which isn't even illegal in a number of places.

If the HOF denies Martina entry, there should be mass riots in the streets! John McEnroe has admitted to using cocaine while on tour, and he's in the Hall. They need to stop testing for narcotics that aren't classifiable as "performance enhancing." I would include greenies as performance enhancing, but not pot, coke, or (shudder) heroin.
Two-hander
QUOTE(bridgeportjake @ Jan 5 2008, 04:17 PM) *

This whole thing is an insane joke. It will be even worse the day a player gets tested and banned for pot use, which isn't even illegal in a number of places.

If the HOF denies Martina entry, there should be mass riots in the streets! John McEnroe has admitted to using cocaine while on tour, and he's in the Hall. They need to stop testing for narcotics that aren't classifiable as "performance enhancing." I would include greenies as performance enhancing, but not pot, coke, or (shudder) heroin.


I couldn't agree with you more. It's ridiculous.

Venus said some supportive things about Hingis and her situation the other day. I thought her comments were the best and classiest I've heard from a fellow player so far. But I'm sure all of the players are scared of being too candid about the hypocrisy.
B-Boy
Great point, Two-Hander...hypocrisy is the point - the western world has a very curious relationship with recreational drugs. They are largely illegal, and publically demonised by most, and yet their use is so widespread that the official stance against them becomes harder and harder to maintain.

It's a big issue that runs way outside of sport and into society as a whole. Personally, I would love a society where I had the legal freedom to choose to take a substance or not, assuming I'm not breaking any other laws in the process. I think a person should be granted the right to do what they wish with their own body, provided they aren't unreasonably hurting others. For instance, I find it ludicrous that many societies criminalise people for attempting (and failing, obviously) suicide. Freedom can be so selective in our "modern" world.

I do have sympathy with the anti-drug arguments that relate to all the shady activities that are funded and propogated by drug production and export, but I see those factors largely as a product of the illegality of narcotics. A shady underworld will cluster around anything that is illegal and highly desired... anything of that nature is financially lucrative for those who are criminal enough to take the risks. Of course, it would be a logistical nightmare to legalise the narcotics industry at this developed stage, but I think it could only be an improvement on what we have today. I strongly suspect that the vast majority of people who want to take drugs are doing so anyway, despite the lack of legality.

Hmm, ok, so I rambled. But really... if they legalised all drugs tomorrow, would anyone change their drug taking habits (or lack thereof)? I know I would not be rushing out to buy a bag of heroin, but I'd still accept a toke of that nice joint if you're passing it this direction wink.gif

Ah well... rant over and out!

B
tealsea
[quote name='Two-hander' date='Jan 5 2008, 06:51 PM' post='348751']
I couldn't agree with you more. It's ridiculous.

I second and third that. This is sad for Hingis who has been a nice addition to the game. I've enjoyed her smart play, and her consistency. And then the comeback. That's a cool thing...that a player can come back and be near the top again after retiring.
but cocaine? Oh please. Get real, testers, and focus on the noids, and such.
Performance enhancing though. Can we talk caffeine here? It is clearly performance enhancing in my sport, and I don't see anyone threatening to take my cup a Joe away.
LarryC
In a team sport, I can actually understand testing and punishing for recreational drug use, since if you're zonked out, you're harming your teammates, and you're not living up to what you're being paid for.

I suppose one could argue that even in an individual sport, you're letting down the fans (or the sponsor, at least if you're getting an appearance fee, although that obviously doesn't apply to Wimbledon). But players have found all sorts of ways of letting down fans (e.g., being out of shape, or out of practice through not playing) and it would be absurd to try to punish things like that. The punishment of having bad results should be enough.
B-Boy
An interesting bit of information - apparently there is a previous WTA cocaine ban, although I don't remember hearing about it at the time (probably due to the lesser profile of the player involved) - in 2002 Lourdes Dominguez Lino was banned for 3 months for testing positive. Somewhat of a disparity compared to the 2yrs given to Hingis. Maybe Dominguez Lino just took a little bit and said sorry? tongue.gif:p

B
Fedex
I saw Hingis play at the 2006 AO; this comeback was so overhyped by the ESPN commentators. Bye bye.....
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