Some of the cynics kept insisting he wouldn't retire, but it looks like Roger is indeed outta there.

Clemens: Thank you, Fans

Red Sox, Blue Jays or Yankees cap on his Hall of Fame statue?

Who cares.
His statue should appropriately dictate him throwing at someone head while the other hand has him throwing the shattered end of a bat.

Josh

He's said he wants it to be a Yankee cap. My sense is Cooperstown will want it to be the Red Sox, which may cause a problem.

I liked Roger Clemens' farewell because so many other players don't do this. It acknowledged all 3 teams (and its fans) for whom he has played. ...and hopefully this puts an end to all of the silly rumors about him coming back.

Thank, Christ... Be gone. Before someone drops a house on you.

Clemens can say what he likes, but he would have been in the Hall of Fame if he'd retired in 1996. He should wear a Red Sox cap.

Provided its done without any under-the-table payments, Clemens should be able to decide which cap he wants to wear. If he has problems with the Red Sox organization, why should he be forced to be inducted wearing their cap?

Get rid of the caps entirely. Put their face on the plaque without a cap.

They should be wearing a cap on the plaque -- how else would we recognize them? -- but take a lesson from Naomi Klein: No logo. (I know there ARE plenty in Cooperstown that don't have any, especially 19th-century players.)

By their name?

I meant by the likeness. (And there are also HOF plaques with images that don't look much like the players.)

Way to go Rocket!

You did it with style, class and dignity!

I'm hoping he goes back on his word.

Keith, he did it with style, class, and dignity????????????? Surely you jest. I hate that fat bastard! I hate him almost as much as I hate the Yanquees.

and you're saying this with fairness and objectivity, I assume?

Come on! You may hate "the fat bastard". But you gotta give him respect as one of the best pitchers and competitors of all time. and No player today (especially given his age) works as hard as he does.

Thanks Rocket!

It looks like "the fat bastard" jobbed everyone with those *cough* tearful *cough* farewells last season. The 'stros have called a 3:00 pm (ET) press conference to announce that Clemens will sign for them.

I am thinking - he won't enter the Hall now w/a Spankees cap!

This is a direct change of attitude from me considering my earlier post on this thread when Roger Clemens was a Yankee. However since he is no longer a member of my team, I am offended by his clear misrepresentation to the New York fans. While I appreciate his years of service with the Yankees, I hope the first time he faces the St. Louis Cardinals, Albert Pujols jams the ball right down his throat. May Roger and Andy Pettite simply have their worst years ever! Go Kevin Brown and Go Yankees!

Wow, not sure I understand some of these comments. I do think Rocket represented his intentions honestly, and if Pettitte hadn't signed with Houston and urged him to come back he would indeed stay retired. However, as with life itself, circumstances have changed. I wish him well; I think he did right by the Yanks, and I hope he finds whatever it is he's looking for in Houston.

LOVIN' IT!!!

Why don't they put his biggest lies on The ass****'s HOF plaque... let's see...

"I thought it was the ball."

"I'm retiring."

Others?

At least there's still a chance, in the NL, he'll leave the field for the last time as he should... with assistance after seeing a "purpose pitch" at bat.

As an Astros fan, I'm glad Pettitte was able to help convince Clemens to give his hometown a chance. His work ethic will be a great addition, let alone his work on the mound.

When he signs a new contract even before spring training, it's hard not to wonder if he ever really intended to retire...especially since he pitched well enough that based on his productivity no one thought he should retire.

What he's looking for, obviously, is a few more millions and another year in the spotlight -- in a less pressure-cooker media environment than NYC.

I can understand the Clemens bashing, but why Pettite? What did he do wrong, maybe other than try and coax Roger out of his non-retirement? Andy was a free agent and Herr Steinbrenner dragged his feet making him an offer. After the years of service he put in, he had every right to feel slighted and insulted by Steinbrenner and the Yankee organization.

TONE_ALERT: Tongue-in-cheek posting (mostly wink )

Here's what Pettite did wrong . . .
He was a Yankee.
That is a taint on his soul that can never be expurgated.
He is damned to an eternity of unrelenting torment. (Quite ironic, seeing as how he's a wear-it-on-his-sleeve Christian.)
Let it begin in Houston (where, God knows, it's hot enough).

Note:

George, as usual you are right on! Totally agree with your post re. Pettitte. We need to give the guy a break; it's not his fault Steinbrenner acted like a jerk.

LOL, Skiguy - love the post. Nice to see a Yankee hater who makes his point so nicely....

I don't blame Steinbrenner (and certainly not Pettitte) for Clemens signing with the 'Stros, even though I do question Roger's sincerity regarding his "retirement" and "farewell tour" while with the Yanks....when I heard that the Rocket had officially signed with a National League team, the first thing that crossed my mind was "Roger will NOW have to BAT in every game!"....I can only imagine the "drama" that will surround Clemens' first start in Shea Stadium as an Astro -- Shawn Estes may have accidentally missed hitting him two years ago (he actually threw behind him) but I have a feeling that Roger will FINALLY pay for the inexcusable Mike Piazza beaning once and for all ....and I'm sure there are more than a few former American Leaguer's now in the N.L. who will "secretly" convince their pitcher to retaliate for all the times they were subjected to the Rocket's "erratic control" and "bad pitch location".

Believe it or not, guys, Clemens really does not hit an abnormal number of batters. Over his career he has hit 0.297 batters/9 innings. Last year, Clemens hit only 5 batters, Victor Zambrano hit 20. The AL average last year was 0.397; in the NL it was 0.372.

This is the primary point that the majority of us Clemens-haters have been making for years, JC....Roger's control is typically SO good that when he "inexplicably" DOES hit an opposing batter (which ordinarily is the other team's star or occurs in a highly "unusual" situation ) it makes Rocket's claims of "bad control" all the more questionable....however, as I mentioned in my last post, the fact that Clemens will now have to step into the batters box 3-4 times a game may "coincidentally" reduce the number of notorious headhunting pitches when Roger is on the mound.

[ January 12, 2004, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: gamecock ]

Clemens' control, while good for a power pitcher, isn't THAT extraordinary. Over his career he has 0.263 wild pitches and 2.90 walks per 9 innings. The AL average last year was 0.304 and 3.17 respectively, so his control is only slightly better than average. Now Pedro Martinez, on the other hand, has much better control than Clemens (0.221 wild pitches and 2.4 walks per 9 innings over his career) and hits far more batters (0.429/9 innings).

The fact is that because Clemens hit somebody in a very critical situation, every time he hits a batter, people assume it was intentional. The guy does throw wild pitches.

It seems to be more common now for retired players to come back, so I always take what a player says with a grain of salt. In Clemens case I do believe had Pettite stayed in pinstripes, Clemens would have stayed retired at least for a little while.

I can understand Steinbrenner's feeling of being taken, but most of his life he had more or less had control of whatever he wanted by waving some money around. As people in power always say "it's a business", it is just unusual to have the tables turned for a change.

The payback and "drama" will likely occur in Houston as the Mets play there first. That said, anyone want to bet that Clemens' spot in the Houston rotation comes just before, or just after each series with the Mets.

Did anyone else see the SportsCenter interview last night with Clemens? The man spoke of Pettit with such adoration I was beginning to wonder. I'm glad staight men have close friendships but it is so rare to hear them spoken of the way Roger was speaking yesterday.


And his intensity level--imagine that in a lover-wow.

I just read this morning that the Astros only play ONE three game series at Shea all season long and that doesn't happen until mid-August (thanks to the unbalanced schedule, which is another one of Selig's "brilliant" innovations ) so Roger may very well avoid coming to the plate against the Mets after all (at least in New York anyway, where you know the NL fans will greet him "warmly" ).

I'm surprised no one has brought up the short fences and HIGH number of runs scored at Enron (err, I mean Minute Maid) Park since it opened, which I believe is second only to Coors Field in terms of runs allowed....when you factor in Clemens' age and presumably pitching half his games at home, I would not be the least bit surprised if his "stellar ERA" increased considerably in 2004.

The Astros say they're going to try and pitch him as much as possible at home, and allow him to leave the team when he's not supposed to pitch, so he can watch his sons' games. Come on. Play or retire. He's trying to do both. Nice work if you can get it, I guess.

Joe, isn't that what Texas let Nolan Ryan do for his last few years pitching? Perhaps it is the start of a trend for "aging" stars.

So ... does this mean will get to see the fat bitch go to bat?

That "fat bitch" is a hottie with a bootie I would love to ..... ummm ... never mind wink

And Steinbrenner has no reason for bellyaching. He caused all this to happen by dissing a man who was a total, loyal, devoted Yankee, Petitte. Let him reap what he has sown.

While the Yankees clearly did not make a strong enough attempt to keep Andy Pettite, this does not change that fact that Roger Clemens misrepresented himself to the fans of New York, not to mention the rest of the league. Is he going to return the vehicle the Yankees gave him? How about the people in cities like Boston, St. Petersburg, and Baltimore, that spent their money on games knowing that this would be their last chance to see Clemens pitch? How about the fanfare and acknowledgement that Clemens willfully accepted from fans in New York and Boston? Is this a way to treat a team that gave you an opportunity to finally win a World Series, which you were unable to do with Boston and Toronto? Is this a way to treat the Yankee fans who accepted his word? Andy Pettite clearly has a reason to feel unloved by George Steinbrenner, but he did win several rings that he may not have gotten with another team (while making a hell of a lot of money)? Pettite can be as pissed off as he wants towards Steinbrenner, but that does not justify him essentially calling Clemens non-stop to get him to break his word. As the New York Post had as its headline regarding Clemens, "What an ASS-TRO!".

Goodness! I'm all for dirty sex with baseball players, but you might want to up your standards a little. I mean, the guy looks like he would hate-f*ck you to death. Or maybe you're into that. wink

All this Ass-tros business is a bunch of crap. It's unfair and shows the unsportsmanship and the real lack of loyality of the fans in New York. Cattledog, with all due respect, the Yanks gave nothing to Clemmons that he did not earn. From all the spears being thrown, you'd think RC time with the Yanks was a gift.

Poppicock!!!!!!!!!!

Do you think for one second, RC would have had the same experience with the Yanks had he been a lesser performing pitcher? NO!!! He would not have in the least. Rc was paid handsomely to perform and perform he did.. end of story, end of contract.

It is well known in Texas that RC wanted to come home to Texas even before he signed with the Yanks. At the time he left Boston, he had serious talks with the Astros but could not reach a financial deal. It was business then and it's business now. The fact that RC had for all practical purposes shown he retired from baseball is not closely relevant. Why should he not take adavantage of something he obvisously wanted to do for sometime, play for his hometown team. RC is at a point in his life and career where he can call the shots for himself and his family. He can still pitch, he can come home, he wants to play for his hometown team, I say.. more power to you buddy.. GO FOR IT...

When I die, lay me in Texas, cause Texas is as close to heaven as I've been. You have to be a real Texan to know what that means, RC obvisouly feels the same way. Why shouldn't he be happy? He wants to play ball in Texas, absolutely no reason not to do so...

Just a thought...

Why go through the charade of saying "I'm retired" if he just wanted to end his career in his home state? The treatement towards him by Yankees fans and others would've been a lot different if he had said "I'm not coming back next year, I want to play somewhere else."

...took the words right out of my mouth.

Incidentally, with all respect to Satx, and the great city of San Antonio. I have lived in Beaumont, Austin, College Station, Bryan, and Houston. I have made it quite clear to anyone that knows me that I do not ever want to be buried in that state. It is far from heaven.

I swear, I'm not Yankee fan basher, but sometimes you guys just crack me up. If Clemens had hypothetically retired from the Astros and unretired to play for the Yanks, you'd all be doing a jig down Broadway and laughing at all the Astro fans who felt betrayed.

Why, given Clemens' history of "honesty and integrity" ( ) , would anyone be surprised, disappointed, angry or have any emotion about it. This possibility of Roger not staying retired was rumored all of last season.

Justice: Lack of loyalty? Yankees hit first in that game

Kernan: He owes Yanks nothing

And if hypothetically this happened to any other team, most of you would all be in total disgust about what a disloyal thing he did to his loyal fans.

Thanks for illustrating that people labeled as \"cynics\" often know what's going on.

Athletes should know when to fold 'em (Shaun Powell, Newsday):

Good op-ed from YES's Suzyn Waldman, bringing up a point I hadn't thought of: If Rocket wasn't gonna retire, the Yankees would have been able to get some prospects from the Astros:

Clemens weaved a masterpiece

Yeeesh, I think most (but not all) of the carping is coming from the Yankee haters. Cattledog, I luv ya, man, but I respectfully disagree with your position.

As a lifelong Yankee fan I don't feel hosed at all. I think it's very apparent that Clemens fully intended to retire, thus his message to Yankee fans in mid-November thanking them and talking about his retirement. The Pettitte situation (they are neighbors and off-season workout buddies) changed his thinking, particularly with Pettitte apparently putting heavy pressure on him to give it another go. I do think he was honest about his intentions all year long, and I do think he's being honest about the change in circumstances and what brought about his revised plans.

I freely admit that I loathed him until he joined the Good Guys, but he did a great job in pinstripes, was a model citizen off the field and seemed to do right by the fans. So I wish him well and hope he and Pettitte both have a great year and show Steinbrenner what a bad decision he made in letting Andy leave.