Reading this article got me thinking!
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...anderson/070213
I read about these athletes that are coming out the more inspired I become. I wish I would have had the courage to continue perusing sports in my youth and being open about it rather than drop out in fear of someone finding out who I really was!

It is amazing to me the level of understanding about gay men and the whole "shower" thing...I watched this show on Fox not to long ago where they ask questions to see if you’re lying. I don't recall the name of the show, but that is beside the point. One of the questions that they asked of a former football player who identifies as "straight" was if he had ever 'checked out another player' he answered honestly...YES!

I think pro-athletes, or men in general are curious about what other people! Natural curiosity...I don't think there is any shame in admitting that as human animals we check each other out. It is part of our deep evolution. Survival of the fittest. I think we would all be very delusional if we did not admit we have checked someone out. At a young age before I really knew I was gay I remember sizing up a guy in the 7th grade. A buddy and I were in the locker room after phys ed. and one of the guys in the shower was...well more developed than the rest of us. I can remember coming out of the locker-room and my buddy saying to me "wow did you see how much hair he has!" and I in part said "Yes...and his dick was bigger than everyone elses too." Now...at the time we were both very young...we had not really began to fully engage in puberty. So for this kid to be so far along and for us to notice I think was natural. We recognized that he was different and that we noticed.

So as I grew up the check out factor became much less. Showering after practice or a game was the norm we did it because that is what you do. But I think as a culture we have associated so much, sex to nakedness that sometimes the lines get blurry.

Recently I took a trip to Las Vegas with my co-workers for a training. While hanging out in one of our off evenings we decided to whoop it up and party a bit! having more than a few drinks i had to go to the restroom. While comfortably peeing along came one of my co-workers next to me...me being a bit pee shy...always have been since I was a kid...I was guarded...there he stood next to me. When I noticed that his eyes were wandering a bit. I just took it as normal curiosity. I am sure he was merely just checking things out, sizing up the competition if you must. I think it was a normal response for people to be in...it is what we are, animals. Animals who are looking out for ourselves...making sure we are the leaders of the pack.

Regardless of who and what we are, I think far too much is made of gay athletes and the showers! When it comes right down to it, the need to bathe is far more important that who your bathing next to.

I hope more athletes have the courage to tell their stories and I hope more men come to the understanding that just because I am gay does not mean I am checking you out.
Get comfortable with yourself and it will be easier to be comfortable with each other.

Most young americans are growing up knowing what it means to be gay and not the old way of thinking that to be gay means your hanging out in a bath house all the time looking for a hook up. the old days of being in the closet and on the down low with someone is slowly coming to an end. Sports is just another place where people have to get over it. And the article is right the guys who dont play are the ones who have something to say about someoen being gay. Playing football and wrestling with my friends knowing i was gay was cool, its the ass hole who cant beat you and wants to try to get into your head who has an issue. the same thing happen when a black guy was on the team and people who couldnt beat them out would throw around the N word just to get into the head of another person. People want to compete and some will do what ever it takes to get into the head of the other person.

I don't necessarily buy the whole, "not looking" thing. In the showers you are going to notice people and you are going to think some of them are hot. Although I make it a point not to stare or oggle (being closeted to the team kinda necessitates this), I have to say that I find some of my team mates physically attractive. It's only human. In the end, though, you have to look at it like a business. You are not there to get a good show, you are not there flirt or pick up, you are there to do your job on the team. In many ways it's a simple matter of respect for ones team mates. As much as I will admit to peaking, I prefer to dissociate sex from the locker room -- that is to say that it doesn't figure at all in any of my fantasies or anything like that.

WHen I was 18, I joined the Navy. I was so preoccupied about the thoughts of living away from my folks, different country ( I just arrived in the country 2 months before that), terrified that I would have a hard time communicating, and then the gruesome physical activities, I realized that my biggest nightmare was taking showers with a bunch of hot young men, and get a hard on. So--- for the first few weeks, I took 5 seconds shower. Then I got used to the idea of being surrounded by naked men--- but of course, I learned how to peek without being suspected.

I started swimming with a nationally recognized development team when I was in the 6th grade. This was in 1966. (OK.....ok). So, at the age, I regularly was taking showers with other young men. "Gay" had not entered my conscience at that time, although I was fully aware that I liked other guys. A couple of years later, I went to an all male high school. Gym class was required. I had no compunction about changing or showering with my class mates, since for several years, it was so normal and routine for me.

Fast forward 30 plus years. I have two nephews entering freshmen year at that same high school. As my sister told me on the phone, long distance, her sons were freaked out about their first day of gym class, because, aside from themselves and their father, it would be the first time either had seen other naked men or boys. To them, who are both straight, it was just simple weird, but as well, a right of passage at the start of the puberty. Gym class was mandatory.

I still swim today at the local YMCA. And isn't curious that even in this day and age, everybody, irrespective of their sexual orientation, is still checking everybody else out. As an expert, over the course of 40 years, all of this is so easy for me to see, and even chuckle to myself about. Some guys are very relaxed in the locker room, some guys are extremely modest (towels around their waste while changing in and out of underwear). Some guys cruise overtly, other spy using locker mirrors.

TRL,

It's interesting how little things change.

Throughout Junior and SR. High school and being involved with teams (swimming: age 8-13, Football: age 15-16, Rugby: age 15-19. soccer: age 7-16, track: age 12-17, and crew age 19-present.. being Canadian I was first introduced to hockey at age 6 but quit within two years) showering with guys has become so second nature that I find it far less awkward than going to gay bars and trying to hook up... I mean seeing naked men is a bonus, but it's so ingrained that it's almost disassociated from sex. I mean it's basically to the point that I have conditioned myself to exclude my team mates when I think of men. Perhaps it's a survival mechanism but it often seems weird to me, because, when I consider it, objectively speaking, many of my team mates would be both what I consider "hot", or "my type"...

As far as checking others guys out or peeking, I do it. No lies, I have done it probably since well before I understood what being gay was or, at very least, before I understood that I was gay and I still do it today. I have even received vailed complements on my body from people on my teams over the years, too. My problem is that I have been completely unsuccessful, by any measure, at having anything close to a sexual relationship with any team mate. AFIK all are straight and I have never tried to initiate anything. I am not sure if it's worth it.

I too have no problem changing in the locker room and walking bare-ass to the shower. Exposure to sports or sport-related environments (gym-class, summer camp)since I was younger have allowed me, like others, the opportunity not to give it a second thought. And yeah, I've checked other guys out. And I think straight guys do it too, though more for reasons of comparison. I've been really perplexed with the contortions I witness some guys in their twenties or late teens go through as they balance a towel around their waists and pull their underwear on or off. A few possible reasons may be that over the past twenty years or so, men have become in the larger culture objects of sexual desire in a much more overt manner. That may be worrisome, especially to younger men just beginning to explore their sexuality. Also the obsession with six-pack abs, near zero percent body fat and what not may be producing body image concerns that were once thought only the preserve of teen age and younger women. Factor in the Janus-faced attitudes of popular culture, i.e. a society increasingly more open about sexualities and yet puritanical in so many ways (for example, remember the brouhaha about Janet Jackson's exposed nipple at the Super Bowl). That may be part of the explanation.

The locker room in the gym that I go to has a sitting area with flat screen televisions. There's always a few older guys who sit around in their birthday suits watching TV, guts hanging out, scratching their nether regions and all. Now, those guys should put towels on!

It DOES seem to be that younger guys are more body shy. I am totally unembarrassed in the locker room cuz being over 40 - I was raised with nudity (with brothers & in the school locker room). Since I came out I try to not stand right next to a co-worker at the 2 urinals. Most of them go to a stall when I am there (OR IS IT JUST MY IMAGINATION??)- I don't care personally but I don't want anyone to think I am getting off by seeing them. As the first openly gay cop on my dept. I am ultra careful about not seeming to be attracted to any of my coworkers, Stupid but necessary for the time being.

I think it's mostly about how acclimated you are to the situation. We didn't shower after gym class, and frankly I'm sort of weirded out by the naked group shower thing. I've only done that a couple times and skedaddled right out of there ASAP. Even during a stint on the swim team senior year of high school, people showered with their suits on at all but one school (that I saw, at least). Random cultural differences I guess.

Copman, There have been some studies done about the patterns of American male urinal selection. (No, I'm not making this up.) The pattern you say of someone going to the stall when the only other urinal is unoccupied is typical, and has nothing to do with sexual orientation. Think, "pee shy."

A few years ago, before the midlife crisis, when I actually still HAD a waistline, I belonged to a gym in the office building where I work. The showers were open, but with dividers between the shower heads. I always took a shower, but with my face towards the wall, as I didn't want to tempt fate.

I found that most guys, no matter what their sexuality, did the same thing. There were a few of the older retired crowd who seemed to use the shower room as a coffee clatch area, but normally just guys going in, showering and going home.

One of the last times I went, before I moved companies, a older gent walked into the shower. I would have placed his age in his late '60's, but he was in very, very good shape, and was hung like a bloody elephant. Almost every single straight guy in the shower stopped and gawked. After he left, the general agreement between everyone there was "holy shit", or "thank god my wife isn't here, I wouldn't stand a chance". The thoughts going through my mind were totally different, but I kept them to myself and beat a hasty retreat.

Please elaborate my friend...
do you mean kind of a mingling area???

And this is still one of the best 'studies' The game has been around for several years, but for fun I took the test again to see if my urinal etiquette is up to par. However, I made the faux-pas of choosing the urinal by the door in question #4.

The Urinal Game

HockeyTom: Regarding 'coffee clatch', LkSimcoe may want to elaborate further, but it's basically an expression describing a group of people (usually women, actually) getting together for idle chit-chat or gossip. It may or may not involve the consumption of coffee Usually the word is spelled 'klatch', as I guess it has a German origin.

Yeah, I guess its PROBABLY not personal but it seems that way. I guess I just want to be another guy - not "the gay guy." Most of the time I don't feel any different but sometimes I do.

Really it's not personal. I would go for the stall myself even in a gay bar. Why? Mostly out of respect for the other guy's privacy. In the gay bar scenario if he's cute I don't want to appear to come off too strong, and if he's drunk, I don't want him getting all handsy on me. I'm there to take a whiz not explore tearoom action.

Many gay bars in these parts still have troughs and no stall. Stalls are located as a separate locked/lockable bathroom for women... and the pee shy.

I've had the experience of using a workplace gym where people knew I was gay. Very weird to be naked in front of co-workers - and vice-versa - especially with this one guy where we had a diversity training and I came out in a very ignorant situation. I always turned my head, never dawdled and did my best to act oblivious. I will say that workplace gym lockerroom has been the only non-cruisy one I've been in.

I have also stayed in a police barracks with cops who knew I was gay. One night a few of us just bullshitted around. The guys laying around in their briefs. I remember I felt very accepted and respected. (They all respected my work.) There was some of that pulling on the briefs with the towel around the waist BS but again, I really tried to be oblivious to it all.

Due to a running injury and not being able to run, I just joined a gym. I live in a small town and work for a very high-profile community agency. The whole naked-in-the-lockerroom does seem to be an age thing. I go in the morning and like to shave before the shower. I do stand at the sink naked altho I do feel self-conscious about it. (I hate to put a clean towel around my sweaty body.)

My observations:
No one under 40 would ever stand at the sink naked.
Guys in their 20s seem most self-conscious about nudity. I think the putting-undies-on-while-towelled is absurd.
Everyone, str8 or gay, admires a fit guy and notices a big dick.
When someone I know is in the lockerroom, I try to go to an opposite corner and I never look in their direction.

Lord, I do love the lockerroom, though.

I am seeking advice as silly as it may sound what is the proper etiquette after your done working out and taking a shower. I have never been involved in sports, so I don't know. I currently work day shifts, but will have to switch to night shifts next month. My plan is to work out in the morning and then go to work, unlike before when I would get out of work, go home, change, and then go to the gym and then go back home. I work out at a gym where it is a mix of gay and straight. There are individual shower stalls. Basically I'm seeking advice, so I don't feel so akward as a shower at the gym virgin.

What is the proper ettiquette? I guess you dry off, get dressed and go home/work. Unless, of course, you make contact with a real hottie...then you exchange digits!

I always tried to seperate the shower from sexuality, and never really got into the jock/shower scene anyways. I was there to take a shower get in and get out. But recently, after having met someone who introducted me to all the methods of looking, as of late I have been more tempted and really I dont know how I should feel about this. Its an issue, the more you let yourself think of things that way the more you loose focus on your game, or why you are there in the first place. I do know that I have been spending more time in the shower/lockeroom, and shaving there now too.

The thing that I do find interesting is the different ways cultures define the way showers and lockerrooms are constructed, even in Western Europe. As Americans most modern lockerrooms are often configured with seperate showers, even curtains etc., The British are most like us, except for these cubicals in the corners for Muslims to change in, however I have never seen one use them. There also seems to be the same kind of tension that often appears in US locker rooms in British ones, it seems like we have similar hang ups on sex/body/nudity. The germans, even modern places, always have one big shower room, no dividers and it seems like alot of the german str8 men do this weird thing where they bend over, spread their cheaks and soap up - whats up with that? Anybody else ever seen that? There seems to be little tension in the german lockerooms evern though alot of people are more naked and walking around without towels. Also, for some reason the germans, even modern facilities, dont have those Muslim cubicals? The Swedes often have stals but never curtains, just like modern Hungary. The Italians, seems like alot of tension, but alot of talking, talking, talking, in the shower outside of the shower, under the water, joking, smiling, blah blah blah and they are naked - none of this towel stuff, yea I have to say they were the best on all accounts. The Swedes and germans are cool and good looking but too quiet. The french are all over, depending upon the region, age of facility, etc. I have even seen gender specific showers in unisex lockerrooms.

Wow, studd, you sure have been in a lot of showers!

and u know I never hooked up??? why is that? and it aint cause i ugly

Okay, I observed this in the locker room yesterday and I'm trying to figure it out. Towel-clad guy comes out of the shower and walks to a locker about five down from me. No lock on the locker. He opens the locker and takes out a pair of boxer-briefs and put them on. That is all that's in the locker. He then moves past me to a different locker where the rest of his clothes are. Gets dressed.

Why would someone hang just his underwear in an unlocked locker and keep the rest of his clothes in another locker 10-15 spaces away? My perverted conclusion: he was hoping someone would steal them.

Anybody have a theory? Or am I just weird for noticing?

While we are on the subject of communal showers (and baths), here are some photos of a Japanese shower/bath room.

Once you get done with your shower, you spend the rest of the time submerged in a very deep tub so the only part of your body that’s visible is your head floating on the surface of the water. It's a both modest and very sensual experience!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/maccha/15907730/
Note: the tub was drained for maintenance, but you can get an idea of what it's like when full of deep water.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tateru/262385555/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alicestronaut/132758814/

Frankly, I think Japanese baths are pretty hot and I wish there were a lot more of them in the U.S.

California Dolphin

I hope it's because you know how to behave like a mature adult instead of an oversexed troll.

Oh, how I wish I were an oversexed troll. Something for me to aspire to, I guess!

I want to humbly suggest that we end this thread because some straight person will get the wrong idea about gay people and this site...lmfao..... Anyway, I've used communal and single showers and I prefer the stalls because people don't know how to act appropriately. I don't like a dude staring at my penis or butt when I'm trying to clean myself unless he's been given permission to do so. And mind you, I'm not talking about your stereotypical "old troll" I'm talking about college aged guys who think the gym is a porn. It's not!

I don't use urinals ever because when you pee in them urine splashes back onto you. You can feel it on your skin but not on your clothes and if the flush doesn't work then you have other people's urine all over you and then you just want to throw up. Then again whenever you flush a toilet small particles of water and waste go into the air. It's pretty scary actually. So I never use a urinal. Sometimes I hardly ever leave my house.

Thats the problem I am too f--king mature and not sexed enough, seriously however, there is no good reason for anybody in a sports context or work for that matter to be scoping out the lockerrooms for sex. Comparisons, check out bodies etc, jokes, b..s..iting fine if its mutual but never push it, and I never got into it. I guess its ok if there was something going on before hand with eye contact etc and it was mutual. Which leaves the italians, man with all the talking shit, smiling, etc you sometimes really dont know. Maybe they dont know, or they are just getting off on the attention. The truth is if its professional you really cant let yourself go there because while there might be a chance for a great thirty minute opportunity you could also create a big f---king misunderstanding that would be difficult to playdown. Now if your on vacation, I would have been the same way - in the past- I would say why create problems but now Im thinking Carpe Diem.




cause their wet or dirty man, they are going to smell up u're other stuff and if they get stolen so what, if there is only one hook in a closed locker I do this shit all the time and with socks etc whatever u only got one with u. anyways who is going to steal someone's underware unless u are in India or something.

Go back and read some old threads, and you'll find out who likes to steal underwear, jockstraps, etc.

wow, that is weird, man
and people want it to get stolen? u got to be kidding me? like then u have to buy another pair? i dont belive this
i wouldn't care what they did with it as long as they washed it and brought it back clean. save me the trouble.

Studd, interesting theory about the undies being wet or dirty but this guy did put them on. I'd go commando instead of putting some wet or dirty ones on.

Sometimes u might need to wear underwear, sometimes u cant go comando, oh and maybe some of us cant go comando as easily in polite company as others......

I really think that this is the reason, i mean if i have the option i like to put my stuff in two lockers, espically pants that i have been wearing all day so that they can dry out after i take a shower. With underware u can put it in a seperate locker and i have never had mine stolen, i have done this so that it will dry out. other people do this too if there are extra lockers avail again who is going to steal wet dirty underwear?

I think you've convinced me. That does make some sense. Damn, where's my mind at!

really explain to me what the thrill is man, really i want to know? I am not say you, but in general. Like is it the smell, and why not have the guts to just try to find someone so you can have the whole body and not just the dirty clothes, or work on your body and make youself more like the person you want to be? Now i am not saying that this is your thing and you are stealing underware, but really just what the fu--k is the thrill, I like a lot of things, some pretty extreme I will admit, but not here:), but this i just cant understand.

Maybe I am coming off too strong, too tied to my situation, I guess it makes sense right? not everyone can take up my suggestions, like who am i to crtiticize what someone wants to do with dirty underware or sweaty clothes, still they shouldn't steal it however, because that is wrong. And if the person who is getting robbed is not into the scene then it is even more wrong and a violation of privacy.

Well, the dirty underwear thing doesn't do anything for me but I take a "whatever floats your boat" attitude about it. You could judge any sexual fetish that way - leather, latex, watersports (gay or str8).

Life's too short!

To quote Baby Mama via Xanadu via some chick at Popeyes...

"B*ch I don't know your life!"

I go to straight clubs, just so I can see a real, live penis at the urinals. "F" the dancing and drinks, the best part of the night is in the bathrooms !!!!


PS: Still a little drunk.

We've got a Peeping Tom in Da House!

Man stop harassing other people, if they aint looking for trouble why make some, it makes everyone look bad. Can you honestly defend youself cause u may have to, think bout it.

Yoweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee..................a lot of moralizing going on here.

Yes, Anita Bryant ultimately came to the conclusion, "Live, and let live". We all take our own risks in every aspect of our lives.

I say, "Have Fun, Play Safe!"

TRL

He didn't say he is harassing anyone. He just said he looks.

I wasn't harassing others. They're probably too into themselves, to even notice a glance from me. It's not like I was down at their crotch, taking a big peek.

No, I couldn't hurt a feather. The state I'm in sometimes, maybe I'd want them to kick the hell out of me. And take me out of this miserable existence of mine.

Sounds like someone needs to start a gratitude list.

Seriously, man, I hope you don't really feel that way and if you do, seek out some help. Life is too short to waste feeling miserable.

I don't. I was having a bad day. At work, I was asked if I was married. Sometimes I think it'd be so much easier if I were straight or dead.

I don't want to side track this thread. But there are times I'm happy to be gay, others not so much.

AUSMUSfan, just wanted to say that I'm glad to see ya posting again.

Listen I am sorry if I upset you, but I do have to say that if you are going to pull risky sh--t you better be prepaired. If you are going down don't do it on you knees but standing up if not for yourself then the rest of us. Man, because anyof us could get into a situation like this, a misunderstanding that we can't get out of. If a guy who is confused himself has second thoughts -like what if his home boy walks in or some chick just rejected his goofy pickup line-, if you are really weak and effemenint maybe you are not worth the fight but if you are not, and I don't think that you are a weak -fem guy, the other guy may feel the need to defend his pride. That you pose more than a credible threat that you could beat the pulp out of him may make him think agian on brining it to that level, its one thing to defend your honor its worst for him to loose a fight defending it. Man none of us should end up like Matthew Shepard, but the reality is no matter who we are we all could. Man there are straight people and worst yet really fawked up gay people out there that are ready to snap.

The thing is if you want sex with men there is just nothing you can do bout it, thats it. So you got to make the best of it, man everybody thinks of ending it. Hey, many people would think my life is great, but man I dream of putting a glock in my mouth all the time. You mention you got a family and responsibilities, I got sh--t. There are lots of negatives to life in general, wanting man on man action is not the worst of it, the thing is to not think of the negatives and try to put it out of your mind till when you will feel better and more positive overall and better able to process those feelings. The best thing I have found is to try to make yourself single minded at times because some times it is best just not to go there. Man its just so easy to go on and on bout the negatives, from the issues with the lockeroom, to the dead end relationships, men are useless unreliable sh--ts, and I am no different. Even the whole sex thing, I mean what is up with the sex acts themselves?? just what are we trying to do to ourselves and others anyways?? when I think of it I just don't get it, now I may want it - actually its more than a want its a need you can't do anything about..., but I still don't understand what the point of gay sex is or how and why it makes us feel the way it does?, but it does and NO man there is nothing you can do, there is no "fix." Maybe I shouldn't even mention the negatives, maybe they are just my wierd negatives.

I get angry more than depressed, really angry and down on the whole situation, but depression is just repressed anger, maybe you should let yourself get angry. Besides life with a woman can be f--ked up too, really f--ked up just look around you, open your eyes and you will see that the thought that life is greener on the other side of the fence is b---s---, its a mess overthere man, trust me.

Last time I was in a bathroom stall next to a straight, Harley-riding co-worker, I put my hand under the wall with my wedding ring showing, and then claimed to "have a wide stance."
He started laughing so hard, he couldn't pee straight!

Hubby and I just spent a month in England, but mainly in northern Scotland, and what I noticed is that most of the pubs still have trough urinals. And yes, we were there for the Glasgow rangers game in Manchester, the UK finals that were played in Moscow, the Man United vs Chelsea game at Wembley, and the Southern Scotland league finals of Dumfries vs someone else.

The cans filled up during ads, and jeez, between crowding, men lifting kilts to pee, and general straight drunken tomfoolery at the trough, it was difficult to have a normal pee. They seem to enjoy grabbing your butt to make you stop peeing.

Next time it's the stalls.

Maybe