This Maryland naval radiologist seems to think so: his article.

I think most parts of the country have evolved to the point where one's socio-economic standing determines how close one can get to the brass ring. Race doesn't matter as much. Barack Obama didn't grow up in a crime-ridden, drugged-out housing project, nor in a tar paper shack in some especially bereft rural area. He grew up middle class as did most of white America, and has far more in common with them than he has with someone from the projects.

This writer though is making a case only for extremes: a tortured POW, and someone raised in extreme poverty. There is a collective opinion in our world that you have to suffer to move forward. It's not always the case. Obama wasn't raised in extreme poverty yet he has the intelligence and the empathy to recognize and understand the circumstances of it. I believe McCain at this point is motivated purely by ego...he's flush with excitement over the possibility that he could be President: this has severely dented his integrity in my opinion - it appears that he will do or say anything to make it happen. I can't imagine anything more dangerous to our country right now than that.

My greatest fear is that McCain may be motivated by revenge - an understandable response to PTSD. Had he a positive response he would have continued following his instincts that made him oppose torture initially. But now he seems set upon continuing George Bush's exceptionalism interpretation of our Constitution and his almost total ignorance of international law. Obama or any other president would have to be vigilant against similar misinterpretations.

But back to the comparison of racism and military trauma: their seems to be a trend recently to define the trauma of racism in blacks in particular and the more common racism against ethnic minorities in general in terms generally reserved for the disorders suffered by those in the military. And there has been some recognition of the enduring practice of black slavery here in the USA up to the 1940s. Douglas Blackmon's Slavery by Another name should probably be standard reading in History classes not just Black History.

I don't think it's akin to torture, but even middle-class and upper-middle-class blacks do experience racism and various kinds of racially inflected traumas, and the psychological, emotional and physiological aftereffects should never be discounted. Class obviates these effects to some extent, but not completely; even black Americans who have grown up with tremendous privilege can be and still are subjected to both overt and structural racism, and we all live in a society that while it's changing is still under the grip of white supremacy.

Obama's background and upbringing are highly distinctive compared even to black Americans who are the children of immigrants from the Caribbean, Africa, Latin America, or Europe, let alone blacks or mixed-race people who consider themselves black and who are descended from the enslaved people brought here from the 17th through 19th centuries, so using him as a case study for anything about black Americans is iffy, but he too has experienced racism, because, as should now be clear to everyone, has has lived and is living as a black person in this country, regardless of his class status.

In addition to the great links Sportinlife posted, perhaps check out the work of psychologists Claude Steele, who's has done some excellent work on the cognitive effects of racism on academic achievement; Mahzarin Banaji, who looks at cognition in relation to social context and how we think of our identities or others in relation to the groups to which we belong; and psychologist Jennifer Richeson, who received a MacArthur Genius Award for her work on race, racism and intergroup relations in the U.S.

A couple of days ago, on Saturday, July 26, 2008 "a top Army official gave families of the wrongly convicted plaques affirming their honorable discharge" due to the following incident: "Riot involving African American soldiers occurs at Fort Lawton and an Italian POW is lynched on August 14, 1944".

That case will apparently now be reopened.

Barack Obama has said that the Bush administration has "a lot to answer for". The fact is we as a nation have a lot to answer for.

If Obama is indeed not willing to pursue investigations of the Bush administration once in office - or indeed hinders them - we are doomed to fail in our foreign policies, regardless of the politics or politicians.

Justice grinds slowly but killers like Omar al-Bashir, Slobodan Milosević and their many predecesors can not be the only ones to pay for their crimes.

Until Obama and other USA leaders are able to equate the pain of a USA mother whose child suffers a domestic rape to the foreign mother who suffers the same from our soldiers, no international peace will hold.

I dunno, guys. All this talk about how much we've all suffered because of racism is starting to sound too much like whinging. As our society continues to evolve and the race factor becomes more and more moot, (cf. Obama's candidacy) I think it's time to get over ourselves. A black child born today has it far better than someone who was born in the 50's who in turn has it better than someone born at the turn of the 20th century.

People are going to be mean to you, and that's just life. If you play the race card every time someone says or does something mean, you're never going to move on. Bill Cosby was right. Black parents need to teach their kids how to function in the mainstream.

At the risk of being redundant, but I think it better than you know what village I live in, my father is black, born and raised in Maryland, and my mother is Jewish and German (white). As for my look, I've been mistaken for someone from somewhere in the Mediterranean basin.

Fabulous post as always about topics like this fantomas. I definitely believe the mental ramifications from slavery continue to exist today. As horrible as segregation was, I think it really broke down the collectivism that existed in the black community in those days. There was simply no other option in those days but to be united and help each other out. Wherever blacks went they were together because they couldn't mingle with whites. In addition, there were still ramifications that existed as a result of the end of slavery. There is a wonderful book called Post Traumatic Slave Disorder, written by Silja Talvi, in which he discusses the many layers of harm that slavery continues to cause blacks today. link here I have said for awhile that many blacks still exist in a mental slavery. There are not literal chains keeping people down, but institutional racism does its part in making sure the structure only allows for so much change. While there has been great improvement, there is still much work left to be done. I realize though that with everything its going to take time. With each passing generation it will get better and better as people integrate more and get past the stereotypes and myths. But just look at how history is taught in our schools. They have us thinking that Abraham Lincoln was this great American president who freed the slaves and whose ass black folks should have been kissing when he really wanted to send them back to Africa. And of course people who don't have a clue and do their own research lap it up and think oh wow...what a great man. Sort of like us still celebrating Columbus Day for a man who discovered NOTHING!!! Its what Hill Harper termed FEAR (False Evidence Appearing Real) and there is plenty of it in this society.

I also agree with fantomas that even middle and upper class blacks still do not escape the sting of racism. I can attest to that growing up not wanting for anything, with a two parent household, no drug problems, etc etc yet always feeling as though there was still only a certain extent I was accepted by some whites. Now Puschkin, I also see your point in that the race card is used when it has no business being used. But the fact is that race is often an underlying factor as well. And that whole "oh stop playing the race card" is now the new phrase designed to basically say that its not the 1950s anymore and blah blah blah. I loved it when Whoopi Goldberg set that dumb Elisabeth Hasselback's ass straight when Elisabeth tried to claim she and Whoopi came from the same world. No honey....WE DON'T!!! Thats just the way it is. That is the drawback that many blacks fear if Obama is elected POTUS; that people will all say "well see racism doesn't exist if we can elect a black president."....like that is somehow going to be the great cleanser of guilt from a country that never paid for the atrocities of slavery. For many....Obama is the right kind of black guy to run for POTUS. He's "well spoken" and "clean cut" and high yella and doesn't look threatening. I mean I think many people don't even realize on a conscious level that this is part of the reason why Obama has had so much success. Cuz trust and believe...if Obama's skin was the color of actor Djimon Hounsou from Amistad....AIN'T NO WAY he is the Democratic Nominee. I too have witnessed that with a good friend of mine who is Djimon's skin color. When we are in public the way we are treated differently by white people AND by black people is ridiculous. But thats a whole other topic.

Now what John McCain did was extremely brave and I don't think anyone denies that. But at the end of the day he still has white privilege...and that carries a lot of weight. As Chris Rock said in one of his comedy specials. There's a one legged white bus boy who won't trade places with my black ass...AND I'M RICH!! Thats how good it is to be white in the USA. Now fortunately, the more money you make the more you can not have to suffer from the effects of institutional racism. But trust and believe...the glass ceiling still exists. We are comparing physical torture to what I see as a form of mental torture here. At the end of the day though...you have to make the determination to rise above it all, get your damn education and keep it moving. I would never hear that I haven't had many experiences with overt racism in my life and was fortunate enough to have access to things that many aren't afforded, but I am smart enough to know that my high yella, articulate behind is still looked at as just another n*gger by some people. Its just a reality that black people have to live in. I don't let it deter me. I don't let it decide how I live my life and who I mingle with, but it is something that I am definitely aware of because its a reality. Its also great that I have a network of people of different ethnicities who aren't fearful of discussing this type of thing. I've had heated discussions as well as very enlightening discussions with some of my white friends when we discuss race. Many people are just simply ignorant to many things because of what they don't know. Talking about it though does good things rather than just ignoring it and hoping it goes away on its own

But the same can be said of a white child, or a child of any race. There's still a gap that exists -- how to close that gap is what has to be worked out.

Easier said than done. All parents have to deal with social variables that are beyond their control. It still takes a community to raise a child.
You are fortunate. As long as they are still your friends at the end of the day.

There are creative people finding ways to take black boys and young black men out of their confining environments and allowing them the space to mature. Boys of Baraka constitutes one of the more exotic. But camps that get them away from stultifying urban environments or back to ancestral homes in the South in a positive way can have the same dramatic affect.

I think black culture has built in risk-averse tendencies as well - a kind of survival technique. Aussies have a saying about cutting down tall poppies. Blacks have learned that they are often the lone tall poppy if they stick their necks out. Learning to keep your neck in is often a necessity.

I was struck recently by the vehement attacks on Obama by several wealthy black backers of Hillary Clinton.

Yeah I would say that I am fortunate. I'm very picky about the friends I have and I think the main thing is that we have all traveled and have been exposed to different cultures. I make sure I surround myself with friends who are culturally competent. I have some aquaintances who could use a lesson or two in cultural sensitivity when it comes to blacks, gays, the disabled, etc. But my friends and I read about different things and engage in conversation about things that many find uneasy. I mean we all have different backgrounds, lifestyles, and upbringings but we are solid enough with each other to listen to each other's opinions and either agree or disagree. But hell when its all said and done there are no hurt feelings and we are still going to meet weekly to play poker and smoke cuban cigars.

I agree that Boys of Baraka was very good and again...so much is about exposure. I feel sorry for people who never venture out of their little corner of the world to explore and see other cultures.

Regarding the attacks on Obama by people like BET's Robert Johnson....it was disheartening but again...just because one is black doesn't mean they have to be fawning all over Obama. There are many blacks who love(d) the Clintons. I think that Bill and Hillary lost a lot of that support when the primary turned ugly and when certain statements were made by both of them.

I was talking specifically about how blacks were treated in 1900 vs. 1950 vs. today.

I'm curious where all you articulate, "high yella" (very pre-1960 that) folks live that you personally are coming across that much raciscm. ("High yella???" Are we still doing brown paper bag and blue veins tests? I'm not offended by the term, but it's like suddenly being called "colored" or "mulatto.")

Without wanting to attract any hostile fire, may I ask if the high yellas on the board are biracial like Barack Obama with one white parent, or has generations past white ancestory suddenly appeared in your physical appearance. I think it makes for a different identity if not experience.

Well like I said...I have not experienced that much overt racism in my life. I've only been called the 'n' word once that I can recall. Regarding the use of "high yella"...yeah its kind of archaic but I use it to point out how lighter skinned blacks are often treated differently and more accepted by others, and how even for me being fair skinned there is still not going to be that 100% level of acceptance from those who are generally prejudiced/racist. The terms mulatto and colored are very archaic terms that I don't even hear used today. But terms like high yella and red bone are still used today when describing blacks of lighter hue. Now I have a bunch of ethnicity wrapped up in me but my fair skin comes from the Scottish/Irish that is in my family (thanks to the damn slave master).

Obviously no one would openly do that today. But the history is fascinating. I have encountered it frequently during my family history research because an older cousin (first cousin once-removed I think is what one calls the daughter of your grandfather's brother) who I interviewed a few years ago, not long before she died, pointed with pride to a picture of herself as a 14-ish year-old debutante in Philadelphia that she still kept hanging on the wall. She was well aware of the political incorrectness of being proud of such a thing nowadays because the "brown bag rule" was still strictly, if informally, enforced then. But she very much loved her grandfather, my great-grandfather, who was no doubt incredibly proud of her "introduction" to the Philadelphia "black elite", something I suspect he always aspired to. It all seems very quaint and distant now, even to me.

But back to racism and torture, could the excess deaths during hurricane Katrina be compared to waterboarding. It was an "act of god" but the response could be viewed as deliberate gross negligence. Bodies were still being found as late as March 2007. The official toll makes it obvious that the deaths were disproportionately black, though I would argue that they were probably just as disproportionately poor as well. There are other links in this article by a self-described "Independent Left Journalist From California" who claims the real toll exceeded those of 9/11.

It could be, but given that Bush can't find his ass with both hands in a well-lit room, I don't think his appointees are going to be any more competent. The whole Katrina debacle and the heck of a job Brownie did are more than ample proof of abject stupidity. These guys aren't smart enough to be that diabolically racist.

The incompetence of the Bush administration is well-documented IMO. And the recent developments in the Anthrax case (see "Anthrax Back" thread in this section of the Discussion Board) are the latest example.

How a bunch who are expected to protect us from overseas terrorists could have taken this long to get this far in solving an apparent domestic terrorist threat - that was made specifically against high officials in US goverment by the way - is beyond me.

Unless of course this administration is more "diabolical" than any of us thought.

The use of torture is not only cruel and contrary to any civilized interpretation of any religion, it is gross incompetence - and most likely was what got us into Iraq in the first place, if reports that false information acquired by torture was one of the many lies used by Bush/Cheney and the neo-cons (or perhaps neo-Nazis would portray better the nature of their actions).

But these folks are innocent until proven guilty. And no international court of law will likely ever try them. There is too much graft around the world for there to be an international policeman with relatively clean hands.

The USA use to be that policeman - protestations to the contrary from many. But now the cop is on the take.

Yeah...no one does it openly...but trust...its still happening in a more subtle way, and people are treated accordingly.