Out of respect to those who want to discuss only the sporting aspect of the Beijing Olympics, I am starting this separate thread for anyone who would like to talk about the much uglier side to this year's Games. China, of course, wants to impress the world with its economic progress, sporting prowess, and glittering venues...and make us forget about its absolutely atrocious record on human rights. Yes, I know the Olympics is supposed to rise above politics, but it never does, and there has not been a more undeserving host country in recent memory. And I lay the blame squarely on the IOC for its insane decision and for meekly abstaining from any criticism of China's utter failure to live up to its promises. And any momentum for a boycott of the opening ceremonies (which would not have 'punished' the athletes) seems to have fizzled out after various world leaders cower in fear of any economic retaliation by the Chinese. The so-called 'talks' with representatives of the Dalai Lama were a farce and totally uncompromising on the Chinese part, clearly aimed at 'appeasing' critics. China has NOT lived up to its promises of improvement in human rights and press freedom (and you can add its treatment of animals to that list too....some of the pictures I've seen are downright sickening). There is ample evidence to show that the situation has in fact become worse. 'One world, one dream'....well I'm sorry China, but much of the world does not share your 'dream' of repression (the Tibetans of course, but don't forget the many other so-called 'dissidents' who are routinely jailed and tortured, viz: Falun Gong members, AIDS activists, and Chinese journalists who dare to criticize their government. There are recent reports of harrassment and discrimination against the Uighur minority and black people supposedly one of the many over-zealous 'security' measures meant to stifle any hint of 'trouble' which might embarrass the regime. I wonder how black visitors from the USA and other countries are going to feel when they are told they can't enter certain establishments?
Geoffrey York of the Globe and Mail has been blogging his observations in Beijing, and most of it is not flattering.
Mix all this in with the choking pollution and oh what joy this Olympics is going to be, eh? As a way of expressing their disgust, there are growing numbers of people, myself included, who will be shunning the Olympics altogether this year. I hope the TV ratings are the lowest ever, but you can be sure that with China's huge population and its 'prestige' at stake, there won't be an empty seat at any of the venues, unlike Athens in 2004.
Here's one Canadian athlete I admire and will be cheering for, but he's NOT going to the Olympics. David Kay has won medals at several international rowing events, including the 2003 Pan Am games. And now he's cycling across Canada trying to raise awareness of China's deplorable human rights situation:
Race for Rights
And finally, in case anyone has mistaken my avatar as being supportive of this year's Olympics, please take a closer look.
Full Version: The Shame of the Beijing Olympics
It will be interesting to see what the coverage is like once the games actually start. If some sort of protest happens during an event being shown on tape, will that protest be edited out because the networks don't want to get the Chinese government mad at them? If it's being shown live, will the signal suddenly cut out? What will the media as a whole cover while they're in Beijing? When they focus on the off-field stuff, what stories will they tell?
Great post, Marc. And great links. I'll now be following both the blog and David Kay's journey.
A great light is now focused on China, perhaps far brighter than they anticipated and both the best and worst is being exposed. I'm still reeling at the Chinese government's incredible audacity in claiming that Tibetan monks were setting off bombs. China wants to step into some kind of world wide respectability and they will stop at nothing in their attempts to attain this. They're trying to force it through all the usual means, but they're really just exposing themselves ever more clearly. Real respect is earned not forced...
A great light is now focused on China, perhaps far brighter than they anticipated and both the best and worst is being exposed. I'm still reeling at the Chinese government's incredible audacity in claiming that Tibetan monks were setting off bombs. China wants to step into some kind of world wide respectability and they will stop at nothing in their attempts to attain this. They're trying to force it through all the usual means, but they're really just exposing themselves ever more clearly. Real respect is earned not forced...
Thank you, Marc. I've been posting about various athletes participating at the Olympics and have eagerly anticipated the Games. Your post and the links that you provided are sober reminders of China's abuse of human rights and its abysmal failure to cut pollution.
Major US business enterprises, such as Yahoo and Google, collude in China's suppression of individual rights, such as free speech.
Am I going to forget all this in a rush to cheer on athletes in a venue that I eagerly look forward to? Perhaps, I can pressure NBC not to forget this side of China, as it covers the Games and sends its correspondents there, such as Matt Lauer, who this morning said that he'll be off to China this Friday and perhaps will chip a golf ball off the Great Wall. Perhaps he should ask his hosts about the very issues Marc writes about, as well.
Major US business enterprises, such as Yahoo and Google, collude in China's suppression of individual rights, such as free speech.
Am I going to forget all this in a rush to cheer on athletes in a venue that I eagerly look forward to? Perhaps, I can pressure NBC not to forget this side of China, as it covers the Games and sends its correspondents there, such as Matt Lauer, who this morning said that he'll be off to China this Friday and perhaps will chip a golf ball off the Great Wall. Perhaps he should ask his hosts about the very issues Marc writes about, as well.
I don't see how the Chinese government will be able to stop information from getting out. There are going to be too many foreigners there with access to the internet, camera phones that can instantly send photos and video, etc. Drudge will be all over every glitch and every protest. The corporate media, led by NBC, will probably do a good job embarrassing themselves except for some token "tough questions" that will be ignored by Chinese authorities. Then cue the quick segue into yet another schlocky human interest story.
It's almost a certainty that some form of protest will happen on the medal stand. The real question is how the athlete's national federation reacts.
For those who don't know (and I didn't until a couple months ago), US athletes Smith and Carlos were expelled from the Olympics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics...ck_Power_salute
It's almost a certainty that some form of protest will happen on the medal stand. The real question is how the athlete's national federation reacts.
For those who don't know (and I didn't until a couple months ago), US athletes Smith and Carlos were expelled from the Olympics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics...ck_Power_salute
I think I have already made my opinions on the Olympics (in general) and the Beijing Olympics in specific quite clear in the other thread, so I won't repeat here.
I am, however, somewhat happy about the fact that vacancy rates in Beijing for the course of the olympics are quite high still. So much so, in fact, that a friend of mine who is going to watch his brother compete was able to find accomodation for 12 people three days ago at about $40 per head per night. China's security crackdown and willingness to resort to brutal repression is obviously not sending a very welcoming message.
Still it's a tremendous shame for local businesses and people who will now not reap the beneffits.
I am, however, somewhat happy about the fact that vacancy rates in Beijing for the course of the olympics are quite high still. So much so, in fact, that a friend of mine who is going to watch his brother compete was able to find accomodation for 12 people three days ago at about $40 per head per night. China's security crackdown and willingness to resort to brutal repression is obviously not sending a very welcoming message.
Still it's a tremendous shame for local businesses and people who will now not reap the beneffits.
QUOTE(golfer 25 @ Jul 28 2008, 09:50 PM) 
I don't see how the Chinese government will be able to stop information from getting out. There are going to be too many foreigners there with access to the internet, camera phones that can instantly send photos and video, etc.
This is how...
QUOTE
BEIJING - Olympic organizers are backtracking on another promise about coverage of the Beijing Games, keeping in place blocks on Internet sites in the Main Press Center and venues where reporters will work.
The blocked sites will make it difficult for journalists to retrieve information, particularly on political and human rights stories the government dislikes. On Tuesday, sites such as Amnesty International or any search for a site with Tibet in the address could not be opened at the Main Press Center, which will house about 5,000 print journalists when the games open Aug. 8.
"This type of censorship would have been unthinkable in Athens, but China seems to have more formalities," said Mihai Mironica, a journalist with ProTV in Romania. "If journalists cannot fully access the Internet here, it will definitely be a problem."
The blocked sites will make it difficult for journalists to retrieve information, particularly on political and human rights stories the government dislikes. On Tuesday, sites such as Amnesty International or any search for a site with Tibet in the address could not be opened at the Main Press Center, which will house about 5,000 print journalists when the games open Aug. 8.
"This type of censorship would have been unthinkable in Athens, but China seems to have more formalities," said Mihai Mironica, a journalist with ProTV in Romania. "If journalists cannot fully access the Internet here, it will definitely be a problem."
[quote name='Dan85' date='Jul 29 2008, 01:08 AM' post='364472']
Still it's a tremendous shame for local businesses and people who will now not reap the beneffits.
[/quote]
It may be far better in the long term for the Chinese people to have lower returns on their investment in the Olympics. It may appear that the Chinese government is open to change in terms of improving political and individual rights when its economy suffers.
Far more troubling about the AP article linked by Joe in Philly is the following quote by an IOC official, as reported in today's NY Times:
[quote]
[/quote]July 29, 2008, 9:25 pm
Censorship, Continued
By THE NEW YORK TIMES
Internet filters at the Main Press Center for the Beijing Games may be affecting more sites than we mentioned earlier today.
An Associated Press report says the official Web site for Amnesty International was blocked — as were any sites with Tibet in the address.
Olympic organizers had promised the news media complete freedom. The Main Press Center is the news media headquarters at the Games, housing several thousand journalists.
“This type of censorship would have been unthinkable in Athens, but China seems to have more formalities,” Mihai Mironica, a journalist with ProTV in Romania, told the AP. “If journalists cannot fully access the Internet here, it will definitely be a problem.”
Kevan Gosper, an I.O.C. official, had said the international organization had received assurances from Chinese officials that Internet censorship would be lifted for journalists during the Games. But on Tuesday, Gosper issued a clarification, the AP reported. He said the open Internet extended only to sites that related to Olympic competitions.
“My preoccupation and responsibility is to ensure that the Games competitions are reported openly to the world,” Gosper said.
He noted that the changes the I.O.C. negotiated with the Beijing Olympic organizers, “which required Chinese legislative changes,” had do with reporting on the Games. Gosper said, “This didn’t necessarily extend to free access and reporting on everything that relates to China.” (AP)
[/quote]
Still it's a tremendous shame for local businesses and people who will now not reap the beneffits.
[/quote]
It may be far better in the long term for the Chinese people to have lower returns on their investment in the Olympics. It may appear that the Chinese government is open to change in terms of improving political and individual rights when its economy suffers.
Far more troubling about the AP article linked by Joe in Philly is the following quote by an IOC official, as reported in today's NY Times:
[quote]
[/quote]July 29, 2008, 9:25 pm
Censorship, Continued
By THE NEW YORK TIMES
Internet filters at the Main Press Center for the Beijing Games may be affecting more sites than we mentioned earlier today.
An Associated Press report says the official Web site for Amnesty International was blocked — as were any sites with Tibet in the address.
Olympic organizers had promised the news media complete freedom. The Main Press Center is the news media headquarters at the Games, housing several thousand journalists.
“This type of censorship would have been unthinkable in Athens, but China seems to have more formalities,” Mihai Mironica, a journalist with ProTV in Romania, told the AP. “If journalists cannot fully access the Internet here, it will definitely be a problem.”
Kevan Gosper, an I.O.C. official, had said the international organization had received assurances from Chinese officials that Internet censorship would be lifted for journalists during the Games. But on Tuesday, Gosper issued a clarification, the AP reported. He said the open Internet extended only to sites that related to Olympic competitions.
“My preoccupation and responsibility is to ensure that the Games competitions are reported openly to the world,” Gosper said.
He noted that the changes the I.O.C. negotiated with the Beijing Olympic organizers, “which required Chinese legislative changes,” had do with reporting on the Games. Gosper said, “This didn’t necessarily extend to free access and reporting on everything that relates to China.” (AP)
[/quote]
I just read a web headline on MSNBC that said the IOC agreed to allow China to censor some websites...absolutely ridiculous.....nope, I am not going to watch this Olypmpic mess either......its really sad that the IOC seems willing to bend over backwards to appease the Chinese government IMO. 
Bring me the winter Olympics in Vancouver in 2010 please....
Bring me the winter Olympics in Vancouver in 2010 please....
It's getting more disgusting with each passing day. International reporters have every right to be outraged not just at China but the spineless IOC, who have had seven years to pressure the Chinese to live up to their promise to uphold the dignity of the Games, with virtually nothing to show for it. It's incredible that China seems to think it is going to gain any respect from the rest of the world with their Olympic Shames, except maybe from its buddies in Sudan and a handful of other genocidal regimes. The Chinese authorities have gone to absurd extremes to ensure that all potential opposition is silenced inside and outside the venues. Neighbourhood spies have been enlisted all over Beijing to keep a watchful eye on any hint of dissent. Foreigners certainly won't be able to arrive in Beijing with any protest-type banners or even any books or newspapers which criticize the regime. My only hope is that some world leaders or brave athletes will use their voices instead; as far as I know, China has not yet required all foreigners to stuff their mouths with gags. Not that it would make much difference, as I'm sure Chinese television will have some kind of delay mechanism on live broadcasts to censor out anything that might embarrass the government and 'taint' their already tainted precious Games. I do feel bad for the athletes who are clearly not responsible for this mess, but I will not go as far as to call them 'victims', because the real victims are the ethnic/religious minorities, Han Chinese 'dissidents', and the thousands of people who were forced from their homes with little or no compensation to make way for ostentatious Olympics facilities to showcase China's 'progress'.
In this Globe and Mail article, one of the spokesmen for the Beijing Olympic Organizing Committee openly spouts hateful lies about Falun Gong, referring to it as an 'evil fake religion'. (Side note: Incidentally, Falun Gong members were recently attacked in New York City, and it was revealed that the attacks were at least in part engineered by the Chinese consulate. This kind of interference and bullying by the Chinese government in other countries has become all too common--it's happened in my city too in regards to a recent cultural event--yet little is done to stop it, because everyone is afraid to 'offend' China at the risk of economic retaliation).
And in the comments section of that article, one reader put it very well, I think:
The Games are given to a nation to allow them to showcase to the world their advances and struggles and place in the world, at least in part. If a nation opens their doors to hot the Games then they should be willing and able to be placed under scrutiny of the inquisitive gaze of reporters and the world. These games have turned into pure politics, they have been such for decades, and that is exactly why China asked to host them, to show their version of a shiny modern nation to the world. They cannot hope to hide their nasty ways from everyone and only expect to show what they deem worthy enough for the view of the world.
Given the recent criticism by Amnesty International, it's no surprise that journalists won't be able to access its website. Of course, it was already banned for Chinese internet users a long time ago. For anyone who wants to take a minute to sign this, here's a petition for the release of Hu Jia, one of China's most prominent dissidents.
Am I going to forget all this in a rush to cheer on athletes in a venue that I eagerly look forward to? Perhaps, I can pressure NBC not to forget this side of China, as it covers the Games and sends its correspondents there, such as Matt Lauer...
Good idea, Big Blue. And I hope other Americans like you will do whatever they can to pressure NBC on this as well.
Great post, Marc. And great links. I'll now be following both the blog and David Kay's journey....
Thanks, Bryan. David is already in Ontario now, making his way west and I hope to meet him when he passes through here on Aug 17. And I totally agree with your comment that 'respect is earned, not forced'.
In this Globe and Mail article, one of the spokesmen for the Beijing Olympic Organizing Committee openly spouts hateful lies about Falun Gong, referring to it as an 'evil fake religion'. (Side note: Incidentally, Falun Gong members were recently attacked in New York City, and it was revealed that the attacks were at least in part engineered by the Chinese consulate. This kind of interference and bullying by the Chinese government in other countries has become all too common--it's happened in my city too in regards to a recent cultural event--yet little is done to stop it, because everyone is afraid to 'offend' China at the risk of economic retaliation).
And in the comments section of that article, one reader put it very well, I think:
The Games are given to a nation to allow them to showcase to the world their advances and struggles and place in the world, at least in part. If a nation opens their doors to hot the Games then they should be willing and able to be placed under scrutiny of the inquisitive gaze of reporters and the world. These games have turned into pure politics, they have been such for decades, and that is exactly why China asked to host them, to show their version of a shiny modern nation to the world. They cannot hope to hide their nasty ways from everyone and only expect to show what they deem worthy enough for the view of the world.
Given the recent criticism by Amnesty International, it's no surprise that journalists won't be able to access its website. Of course, it was already banned for Chinese internet users a long time ago. For anyone who wants to take a minute to sign this, here's a petition for the release of Hu Jia, one of China's most prominent dissidents.
QUOTE(BigBlueCowboy @ Jul 28 2008, 10:43 AM)
Am I going to forget all this in a rush to cheer on athletes in a venue that I eagerly look forward to? Perhaps, I can pressure NBC not to forget this side of China, as it covers the Games and sends its correspondents there, such as Matt Lauer...
Good idea, Big Blue. And I hope other Americans like you will do whatever they can to pressure NBC on this as well.
QUOTE(Bryan @ Jul 27 2008, 10:24 PM)
Great post, Marc. And great links. I'll now be following both the blog and David Kay's journey....
Thanks, Bryan. David is already in Ontario now, making his way west and I hope to meet him when he passes through here on Aug 17. And I totally agree with your comment that 'respect is earned, not forced'.
Thanks for starting this thread Marc - Although the games are supposed to be apolitical, and I firmly supported the decision to "spread" the games around a bit with the selection of Bejing, I think it is pretty clear that these will be the most political games since the Cold War, if not Munich 1936. And there is no way China will be able to keep a lid on all the information coming out of the games either. They may be able to affect the public internet sites, but there are satellite phones and other equipment that will allow at least some journalists the ability to bypass the Chinese government's controls.
I am a Winter Olympics fan more than Summer games anyway, but I have to admit that the controversy swirling around the games this time makes me far less interested in watching. Maybe empty stadiums, poor TV ratings and pollution issues will convince the IOC of its mistake in this decision.
I am a Winter Olympics fan more than Summer games anyway, but I have to admit that the controversy swirling around the games this time makes me far less interested in watching. Maybe empty stadiums, poor TV ratings and pollution issues will convince the IOC of its mistake in this decision.
They aren't going to have empty stadiums. They'll be filled with people from China instead of visitors, perhaps, but they'll be filled. One way or another. 
This thread give me great angst.
QUOTE(TRL @ Jul 31 2008, 06:25 PM)
This thread give me great angst.
I'm with you TRL. I'm so tired of all the bellyaching. I may be wearing blinders but to me it's all about the games and the athletes.
So what if China's blocking the internet. What matters is who wins what and which country leads in the medal standings. We all know how bad China is. We don't need any sports reporters telling us that.
BTW, Berlin staged the 1936 Summer Olympics. Munich had the 1972 games.
QUOTE(USAolyfan @ Jul 31 2008, 07:48 PM)
I'm with you TRL. I'm so tired of all the bellyaching. I may be wearing blinders but to me it's all about the games and the athletes.
So what if China's blocking the internet. What matters is who wins what and which country leads in the medal standings. We all know how bad China is. We don't need any sports reporters telling us that.
BTW, Berlin staged the 1936 Summer Olympics. Munich had the 1972 games.
Why shouldn't they report on what they see? The more information that gets out, the better. We should get all avaliable information, not just the propaganda the Chinese government puts out. (Has the campaign of lies used to justify the Iraq War taught us nothing?)
If you want to "wear blinders," as you say, there are other threads on the board for you to read.
And I'm not sure why you include Munich. Yes, the Israeli athletes were taken hostage and killed, but that wasn't done by the Munich government.
QUOTE(Joe in Philly @ Jul 31 2008, 07:09 PM)
If you want to "wear blinders," as you say, there are other threads on the board for you to read.
Absolutely right, Joe. That is precisely the reason I made this a separate thread because I know there are people like USAolyfan who choose to be oblivious to the very real issues of human rights and press freedom in China. He, TRL and others are free to discuss their favourite sporting events on several other threads, and I will not intrude on those threads with any political commentary.
QUOTE(Joe in Philly @ Jul 31 2008, 08:09 PM)
If you want to "wear blinders," as you say, there are other threads on the board for you to read.
And I'm not sure why you include Munich.
I'll continue reading this thread. This is a discussion board, after all. Let's discuss things. Maybe I'll learn something.
I included Munich because CPT__Doom (in Post #11) referred to it as being the location of the 1936 games.
Oblivious? OK. But my point was, and again, this is a discussion board, where I freely choose to participate, that we all are well aware of the way China manages its portion of humanity. I don't like it. I don't like the policy on Tibet, I don't like the censure-ship, I don't like one child only, I don't like China sucking up all the oil it needs from across the globe, that doubles my price of gasoline. I don't like a lot about China.
The fact is, a week from today, China hosts the Olympics. The world's premier stage of athleticism and beauty. And although, long ago, when I was young and an innocent idealist, I too deplored the union of politic-olympic. It's nothing new. '36, '68, '72, '76, '80, '84, '96, '04............all of these Olympiads were tainted by the stain and strain of forces against the noble notion of uniting mankind through the precision and glory of athletic competition.
Yet, in later years, I realized that The Olympics could not be separated from competing ideologies. And hence, I accepted it. Like Charlie Keating (father-in-law of three time Olympian Gary Hall, and grandfather of three time Olympian and triple Gold Medalist Gary Hall, Jr.) said, when sentenced to five years in prison for crashing the Lincoln Savings and Loan in 1990, "I don't like it, but I can handle it."
Remembering Munich, where my two high school friends, Jennifer Kemp and Deana Deardorf each won Gold Medals in swimming, and 14 Israeli athlete were massacred, remembering Atlanta, where my friend Jamie's brother, Eric Robert Rudolph admitted to and was sentenced to life, for exploding a bomb that killed one woman and injured more than 100 others, remembering Mexico where more than 300 student protesters were killed by army and police, would you now say, I am "oblivious" to the obvious human rights infractions of the Chinese Politburo?
After the massacre 1972, at the insistence of the IOC President Avery Brundage, he famously proclaimed "The Games must go on!" I believe this phrase rings true today. Why? Because, the Games still represent the betterment of men and women about the globe, and the Games represent the hope that more good will be fostered by the Olympic presentation. Not to ignore ugly and despicable statecraft, but nor to ignore the rare in form, rich in esteem, and occasionally the spectacular.
TRL
The fact is, a week from today, China hosts the Olympics. The world's premier stage of athleticism and beauty. And although, long ago, when I was young and an innocent idealist, I too deplored the union of politic-olympic. It's nothing new. '36, '68, '72, '76, '80, '84, '96, '04............all of these Olympiads were tainted by the stain and strain of forces against the noble notion of uniting mankind through the precision and glory of athletic competition.
Yet, in later years, I realized that The Olympics could not be separated from competing ideologies. And hence, I accepted it. Like Charlie Keating (father-in-law of three time Olympian Gary Hall, and grandfather of three time Olympian and triple Gold Medalist Gary Hall, Jr.) said, when sentenced to five years in prison for crashing the Lincoln Savings and Loan in 1990, "I don't like it, but I can handle it."
Remembering Munich, where my two high school friends, Jennifer Kemp and Deana Deardorf each won Gold Medals in swimming, and 14 Israeli athlete were massacred, remembering Atlanta, where my friend Jamie's brother, Eric Robert Rudolph admitted to and was sentenced to life, for exploding a bomb that killed one woman and injured more than 100 others, remembering Mexico where more than 300 student protesters were killed by army and police, would you now say, I am "oblivious" to the obvious human rights infractions of the Chinese Politburo?
After the massacre 1972, at the insistence of the IOC President Avery Brundage, he famously proclaimed "The Games must go on!" I believe this phrase rings true today. Why? Because, the Games still represent the betterment of men and women about the globe, and the Games represent the hope that more good will be fostered by the Olympic presentation. Not to ignore ugly and despicable statecraft, but nor to ignore the rare in form, rich in esteem, and occasionally the spectacular.
TRL
QUOTE(Marc @ Jul 27 2008, 06:07 PM)
... there has not been a more undeserving host country in recent memory. And I lay the blame squarely on the IOC for its insane decision and for meekly abstaining from any criticism of China's utter failure to live up to its promises...
I think equally dubious was Moscow in 1980. The Soviet Union wasn't ever exactly known for its respect for human rights. At least nowadays, China has to act like it's putting on a good public face. I don't think a single request was ever made of the USSR by the IOC to relax restrictions while the Moscow Games went on.
It may not have been intended that way but some US cyclists may have found the best way to protest China's human rights record without police officers being able to crack down on it.
How can you stop people from trying to protect their health, though at least one expert I've seen interviewed says the masks do absolutely no good against the effects of prevailing pollutants in Beijing's air. The particulates are much too small, and most are molecular sized - materials against which these types of masks are perhaps worst than useless.
So I hope they don't plan to compete wearing them, even if it were a protest.
Other athletes are finding reasons not to show up until they have to like Australia's 400m freestyle specialist Grant Hackett.
While attendance of world leaders at the opening ceremony basically boils down to money. None want to risk upsetting their biggest trading partner. And Australia would be first in line on that, despite the greater hype about the compromised principles of US companies like NBC, Microsoft, etc.
How can you stop people from trying to protect their health, though at least one expert I've seen interviewed says the masks do absolutely no good against the effects of prevailing pollutants in Beijing's air. The particulates are much too small, and most are molecular sized - materials against which these types of masks are perhaps worst than useless.
So I hope they don't plan to compete wearing them, even if it were a protest.
Other athletes are finding reasons not to show up until they have to like Australia's 400m freestyle specialist Grant Hackett.
While attendance of world leaders at the opening ceremony basically boils down to money. None want to risk upsetting their biggest trading partner. And Australia would be first in line on that, despite the greater hype about the compromised principles of US companies like NBC, Microsoft, etc.
QUOTE(TRL @ Aug 1 2008, 03:37 PM)
would you now say, I am "oblivious" to the obvious human rights infractions of the Chinese Politburo?
TRL, although you have shown you are not oblivious, I wonder why you used the word 'infractions'. I don't mean to nit-pick, perhaps it's just semantics, but that seems to be far too diplomatic a word to describe the despicable behaviour of the Chinese government towards dissidents. Let's be honest: their actions, past and present are better described as 'crimes' and 'abuses'; even 'violations' conveys a stronger meaning than 'infractions', a word which I would apply to something like jay-walking.
QUOTE(aquaman @ Aug 5 2008, 06:02 PM)
I think equally dubious was Moscow in 1980. The Soviet Union wasn't ever exactly known for its respect for human rights. At least nowadays, China has to act like it's putting on a good public face. I don't think a single request was ever made of the USSR by the IOC to relax restrictions while the Moscow Games went on.
Yes, you're certainly right about the Soviet Union, which had a dismal human rights record back then (not that it's much better now in many of the 'new' republics). I hadn't forgotten about it, but I guess I didn't consider the 1980 Games to be very 'recent', ie one that many Outsports members (excluding myself and a few others) were too young to remember. In any case, Moscow and Beijing stand as the worst IOC choices for host cities since Berlin in 1936.
The masks worn by the cyclists in Sportinlife's link are a great idea, not just for protection from the filthy air in Beijing, but because they resemble a 'gag' over the mouth, a powerful reminder that freedom of speech is severely curtailed in China.
Last night on CBC television, Peter Mansbridge somehow managed to get permission to interview Bao Tong, a former high-ranking member of the Communist party who dared to oppose the government's decision to murder thousands of protesters in Tiananmen Square in 1989. For the interview move the slider to approximately 26:10. He spent seven years in prision, and continues to live under house arrest. He remains unrepentant in his opposition to the massacre. Following this, is an interview with a woman whose son was one of the victims that day. It is actually remarkable that a foreign journalist was allowed to interview these courageous Chinese citizens. Certainly Chinese journalists are forbidden to do so. In fact, the generation that has grown up since 1989 know virtually nothing about the massacre, thanks to the government's censorship of any discussion of the topic. There is something perverse about the sight of tourists and Chinese alike in Tiananmen Square, strolling over the site of so much bloodshed where memorials to the innocent victims are forbidden, while taking photos of the giant picture of Mao Zedong, one of the worst tyrants of modern history.
I'm sure the opening ceremony on Friday will be spectacular, with the IOC elite and foreign leaders obsequiously heaping praise on China for its 'achievements'. I wonder if any of them will stop ooh-ing and aah-ing long enough to realize that their privileged seats at the Bird's Nest stadium are the result of thousands of Chinese citizens being forcibly removed from their homes, with little or no compensation. A few of these people bravely tried to stage a protest yesterday, but of course these 'undesirables' were quickly whisked away by the police. I don't think I could stomach watching the ceremony on TV, although I hope to hear about a peaceful act of defiance or protest. My own form of protest will include attending a candle-light vigil for Tibet in front of the Chinese Consulate here in Calgary on Thursday night.
Joey Cheek's visa has been revoked by China less than one day befroe he was scheduled to fly to Beijing.
QUOTE
The Chinese government on Tuesday revoked the visa of 2006 Olympic gold medalist Joey Cheek, effectively barring the speedskating champion and social activist from attending the 2008 Beijing Games.
Cheek is co-founder of Team Darfur, an organization composed of athletes attempting to draw attention to human rights violations in Darfur. China is a major customer of the oil produced in the war-torn region of Sudan.
Cheek is co-founder of Team Darfur, an organization composed of athletes attempting to draw attention to human rights violations in Darfur. China is a major customer of the oil produced in the war-torn region of Sudan.
Yep, I just read about this on MSNBC. China asserts itself once again.....throwing its big fat weight around.
I was sorry but not surprised to hear about Joey Cheek's visa being revoked at the last minute. I admire Cheek's efforts to bring attention to the never-ending misery in Darfur, a conflict the world seems to have forgotten, and for which China is largely to blame due to its cozy relationship with Sudan's genocidal dictator. But of course China doesn't want anyone to remember such a 'minor detail' which might blemish its 16-day ego trip.
I was pleased to hear that two British visitors somehow managed to unfurl a 'Free Tibet' banner along the Olympic torch relay route in Beijing today. While the message may not be quite appropriate (the Dalai Lama does not advocate Tibet's separation from China), at least it showed that the Chinese authorities, despite their boasts of super-tight security, are not able to suppress all dissent. The foreigners have been detained by police of course, although unlike Chinese sympathizers of the Tibetan cause, at least they are not likely to face imprisonment or execution.
And I forgot to add this in my last post. I wonder if any of the guests at the opening ceremony will also give a thought to the thousands of migrant workers from poorer remote regions who were brought in to build all those glittering Olympic venues in Beijing, and have now vanished. The Chinese authorities made sure they went back to their home provinces so their poor shabby appearance wouldn't be an embarrassing 'eyesore' on the new prosperous image that China is so obsessively trying to project to the world.
I was pleased to hear that two British visitors somehow managed to unfurl a 'Free Tibet' banner along the Olympic torch relay route in Beijing today. While the message may not be quite appropriate (the Dalai Lama does not advocate Tibet's separation from China), at least it showed that the Chinese authorities, despite their boasts of super-tight security, are not able to suppress all dissent. The foreigners have been detained by police of course, although unlike Chinese sympathizers of the Tibetan cause, at least they are not likely to face imprisonment or execution.
And I forgot to add this in my last post. I wonder if any of the guests at the opening ceremony will also give a thought to the thousands of migrant workers from poorer remote regions who were brought in to build all those glittering Olympic venues in Beijing, and have now vanished. The Chinese authorities made sure they went back to their home provinces so their poor shabby appearance wouldn't be an embarrassing 'eyesore' on the new prosperous image that China is so obsessively trying to project to the world.
and now U.S. Olympic athletes choose a former Sudanese refugee to carry U.S. flag during the Opening Ceremonies .
and some U.S. cyclists apologize to the Beijing Olympic Committee or wearing Batman-esque breathing masks.
QUOTE
Lomong, who spent 10 years in a refugee camp after fleeing his native Sudan as a child, was given the honor after a vote by the team captains of the entire U.S. Olympic squad.
“This is the most exciting day ever in my life,” Lomong said in a statement by the United States Olympic Committee (USOC) on Wednesday.
“It is a great honor for me that my team mates chose to vote for me. The opening ceremony is the best day and the best moment of Olympic life,” added the 23-year-old, who will race in the 1,500 meters.
Lomong fled on foot from rampaging government-sponsored Arab militias in southern Sudan at the age of six in 1991, becoming separated from his parents.
“This is the most exciting day ever in my life,” Lomong said in a statement by the United States Olympic Committee (USOC) on Wednesday.
“It is a great honor for me that my team mates chose to vote for me. The opening ceremony is the best day and the best moment of Olympic life,” added the 23-year-old, who will race in the 1,500 meters.
Lomong fled on foot from rampaging government-sponsored Arab militias in southern Sudan at the age of six in 1991, becoming separated from his parents.
and some U.S. cyclists apologize to the Beijing Olympic Committee or wearing Batman-esque breathing masks.
QUOTE
The wearing of protective masks upon our arrival into Beijing was strictly a precautionary measure we as athletes chose to take, and was in no way meant to serve as an environmental or political statement,” the athletes said. “We deeply regret the nature of our choices. Our decision was not intended to insult BOCOG or countless others who have put forth a tremendous amount of effort to improve the air quality in Beijing.”
That last minute revocation of Joey's visa was particularly gauling. He can bring his fine cheeks to the city of brotherly love anytime - no visa required.
He could stage a protest next to the Rocky statue. That seems to draw a constant international crowd. And it's sports-related...sorta
He could stage a protest next to the Rocky statue. That seems to draw a constant international crowd. And it's sports-related...sorta
There is no way the Chinese government or BOCOG can prevent the overt control being hidden from international eyes during this Olympics. While the IOC may think they are making a bold statement by "forcing" China to exhibit more openness it may backfire against them as more people see them cave to the Chinese government pressure to control the message. Joey Cheek was a great example as the IOC dodged the issue by stating that Cheek does not fall within the IOC's remit as a "non-accredited person."
On another embarrassing note (I posted this in another thread) China's translators need a little help in learning how to make stories appealing without insulting people. Maybe I'm reading too much into the headline but I would never call women's soccer "mouthwatering."
More to come as we watch the overly controlled atmosphere of the Beijing Olympics. BTW, is it just me or are the women's soccer games really hazy looking on the NBC Olympic Soccer channel?
On another embarrassing note (I posted this in another thread) China's translators need a little help in learning how to make stories appealing without insulting people. Maybe I'm reading too much into the headline but I would never call women's soccer "mouthwatering."
More to come as we watch the overly controlled atmosphere of the Beijing Olympics. BTW, is it just me or are the women's soccer games really hazy looking on the NBC Olympic Soccer channel?
Revoking Joey Cheek's visa was gauling, as he's truly one of the Good Guys. But the fact that it has happened just prior to the Olympics puts China's behavior on prime display.
I think the selection of Lopez Lomong as flagbearer is exactly the correct level of subtlety for the US Olympians to bring attention to the Sudan crisis and the Chinese involvement in that crisis.
I don't like how the U.S. is being forced to bow down as to not "upset" or "dishonor" the Chinese. The cyclists wore the masks because they were told to. Joey suddenly is only a "civilian" that the USOC or IOC can do nothing for...
I don't like how the U.S. is being forced to bow down as to not "upset" or "dishonor" the Chinese. The cyclists wore the masks because they were told to. Joey suddenly is only a "civilian" that the USOC or IOC can do nothing for...
Here's further evidence that the IOC is basically caving into BOCOG and China by calling the hazy conditions in Beijing "fog."
From the NY Times: “The fog you see is based on the basis of humidity and heat,” Rogge said at a news conference. “It does not mean to say that this fog is the same as pollution. It can be pollution, but the fog doesn’t mean necessarily that it is pollution. Of course, we prefer clean skies, but the most important thing is the health of the athletes being protected.”
This is just another example of the hypocrisy of the IOC with regards to the Games. I am continuing to lose my respect for Rogge and the IOC as they don't want to show ANY bad image of their decision to select Beijing for the 2008 Olympics.
Personally I'm watching Brian Williams on NBC Nightly News and that's SMOG folks! You can barely see the Bird's Nest behind him. I sure hope athlete health takes precedences over Olympic pride.
From the NY Times: “The fog you see is based on the basis of humidity and heat,” Rogge said at a news conference. “It does not mean to say that this fog is the same as pollution. It can be pollution, but the fog doesn’t mean necessarily that it is pollution. Of course, we prefer clean skies, but the most important thing is the health of the athletes being protected.”
This is just another example of the hypocrisy of the IOC with regards to the Games. I am continuing to lose my respect for Rogge and the IOC as they don't want to show ANY bad image of their decision to select Beijing for the 2008 Olympics.
Personally I'm watching Brian Williams on NBC Nightly News and that's SMOG folks! You can barely see the Bird's Nest behind him. I sure hope athlete health takes precedences over Olympic pride.
Yesterday during the lunch hour I saw a Free Tibet protest march going up Yonge St. in Toronto. News reports said there were about 200 people involved. Apparently they were marching to the Chinese consulate (I think it's on St. George St., just north of U of T).
For your consumption whether you are or are not a fan of the White House Press Crops.
A message from China to U.S. media?
QUOTE
BEIJING - A charter airplane carrying the White House press corps was detained for nearly three hours Friday at Beijing's international airport not long after President Bush arrived to attend the Olympic Games.
A message from China to U.S. media?
QUOTE(canmark @ Aug 8 2008, 05:18 AM)
Yesterday during the lunch hour I saw a Free Tibet protest march going up Yonge St. in Toronto. News reports said there were about 200 people involved. Apparently they were marching to the Chinese consulate
I participated in a similar protest and candle-light vigil last night in front of the Chinese Consulate in Calgary. A lot of chanting which I didn't understand, but I was glad to support the Tibetan community and spoke to several of them. Another protest is planned for City Hall on August 23 to coincide with the closing of the Beijing games. There were similar demonstrations in Vancouver, Ottawa and Toronto as well as in a large number of cities around the world. Not that China cares, of course.
I'm certainly no fan of George Bush and Guantanamo is a major blot on his presidency, and yet I applaud his public (albeit rather mild) criticism of China's abysmal human rights record. Too bad if Chinese authorities didn't appreciate it just before the start of their 'coming out' party! The more scorn heaped on them and the IOC the better, and they've only got themselves to blame for it. I hope Bush will pressure them on Joey Cheek's visa as well.
I took this from the other thread because my reply doesn't belong there.
One thought about the Opening Ceremonies that a friend and I talked about this morning.
Think about the precision of the guys who made movable type come to life. Imagine being inside a box with the instructions to move up and down at variable points as a part of an animated experience.
You cannot see anyone next to you on any side and you have to move perfectly to keep the animation look smooth. You don't know if you hit or missed your mark until after the entire thing is over. You can't rely on audible cues from your neighbors because you have 8 neighbors to listen to.
All you know is to move up and down and do that A LOT! Remember when we do the wave in stadiums we can see and hear each other. The guys in the boxes couldn't. At the end you hit it flawlessly.
Or else your family will never see you again.
QUOTE(RBear78240 @ Aug 10 2008, 09:32 AM)
One thought about the Opening Ceremonies that a friend and I talked about this morning.
Think about the precision of the guys who made movable type come to life. Imagine being inside a box with the instructions to move up and down at variable points as a part of an animated experience.
You cannot see anyone next to you on any side and you have to move perfectly to keep the animation look smooth. You don't know if you hit or missed your mark until after the entire thing is over. You can't rely on audible cues from your neighbors because you have 8 neighbors to listen to.
All you know is to move up and down and do that A LOT! Remember when we do the wave in stadiums we can see and hear each other. The guys in the boxes couldn't. At the end you hit it flawlessly.
Or else your family will never see you again.
Here's a silly look at Chinese censorship, with a very real note from the editor...
Oddly, some local sports websites are also not available. (This one refers to them as phlogs -- I suppse because they're Philadelphia-centric. Ridiculous term.)
QUOTE
I'M REPORTING from Beijing where the temperature is a pleasant 83 degrees under [censored] skies and [censored] air quality...
There was a thrilling moment Friday when Team USA entered the National Arena during the over-the-top, Cirque du Soleil/Blade Runner opening ceremonies, wearing Navy jackets and white caps that made them look like caddies, with masks over their mouths to avoid [censored] problems due to noxious [censored]...
Thousands of journalists are here with some reporting problems reaching Web sites, such as [censored] and [censored].
[Editor's note: Byko is not really in China, but Daily News writers there actually couldn't get to our philly.com Web site.]
There was a thrilling moment Friday when Team USA entered the National Arena during the over-the-top, Cirque du Soleil/Blade Runner opening ceremonies, wearing Navy jackets and white caps that made them look like caddies, with masks over their mouths to avoid [censored] problems due to noxious [censored]...
Thousands of journalists are here with some reporting problems reaching Web sites, such as [censored] and [censored].
[Editor's note: Byko is not really in China, but Daily News writers there actually couldn't get to our philly.com Web site.]
Oddly, some local sports websites are also not available. (This one refers to them as phlogs -- I suppse because they're Philadelphia-centric. Ridiculous term.)
The most shameful thing of all: cute 9-year old girl dubbed!
Apparently Chinese officials thought Lin Miaoke was cute, but didn't sing well enough. And Yang Peiyi was a good singer, but not cute enough. So they had the cute girl perform in the Opening Ceremonies to the other girl's voice. Can you say Milli Vanilli, China?
Apparently Chinese officials thought Lin Miaoke was cute, but didn't sing well enough. And Yang Peiyi was a good singer, but not cute enough. So they had the cute girl perform in the Opening Ceremonies to the other girl's voice. Can you say Milli Vanilli, China?
QUOTE
In the recordings that happened before the opening ceremonies, Chen said, "Lin Maoke's voice didn't quite meet our standard, the breadth and depth wasn't quite up to our standards. So, at last, we decided from a sound perspective to use Yang Peiyi."
But Chen Qigang also suggested, however, that Yang Peiyi wasn't cute enough.
"The performer was Lin Miaoke, but the sound was Yang Peiyi. The reason...is this: One was for the benefit of the country. The child on camera should be flawless in image, internal feelings, and expression, and Lin Miaoke meets our requirements in those aspects."
* * *
"... There were many different departments, especially leaders from the Politburo [the Central Communist Party leadership] who all gave us their opinions that it must change. So, we had no choice."
But Chen Qigang also suggested, however, that Yang Peiyi wasn't cute enough.
"The performer was Lin Miaoke, but the sound was Yang Peiyi. The reason...is this: One was for the benefit of the country. The child on camera should be flawless in image, internal feelings, and expression, and Lin Miaoke meets our requirements in those aspects."
* * *
"... There were many different departments, especially leaders from the Politburo [the Central Communist Party leadership] who all gave us their opinions that it must change. So, we had no choice."
Actually, more than Milli Vannilli, it reminds me of the Martha Wash/C + C Music Factory/Black Box flap back in the early '90s.
Wow, the Chinese are apparently as image-conscious and shallow as Americans. Who knew!
Wow, the Chinese are apparently as image-conscious and shallow as Americans. Who knew!
Saw a report on CNN this afternoon where the Chinese threw their weight around yet again with a British Reporter, roughed him up pretty good, and then others who held up signs that said " Free Tibet."
The opening ceremonies were just filled with fraud! They had a "pretty" girl lip-sync to the "not pretty" girl's voice. They mixed in computer-generated fireworks with the real ones. And now it turns out that the 56 kids who were supposed to be from 56 different Chinese ethnic groups weren't. Instead, they were actors from a troupe comprised primarily of one ethnic group. 
What a farce. Beijing police grab foreign and Chinese activists
Some excerpts:
Yes, let's be sure to lock up the old women and work them to death.
Some excerpts:
QUOTE
Police descended on a group of foreign pro-Tibet activists and some disgruntled business owners from Hong Kong on Thursday, taking both groups away minutes after they displayed protest signs in central Beijing.
The abrupt end of the separate protests—and the sentencing of six foreigners to 10 days of detention for “disrupting public order”—underscored China’s determination to prevent any disruption during the Olympics.
The government has said it would allow protests in three areas during the games, but no application to hold a demonstration has been accepted. One of the Hong Kong protesters on Thursday, Wang Pei, told The Associated Press his group also tried to submit an application.
“But police put up many obstacles to make it difficult,” Wang said from a police station where the group—five men, two women and a teenage girl—was being held.
----
Two Associated Press photographers were roughed up by plainclothes security officers, forced into cars and taken to a nearby building where they were questioned before being released. Memory cards from their cameras were confiscated.
----
Some 77 applications were lodged to hold protests, none went ahead. Rights groups say the zones were just a way for the Chinese government to put on an appearance of complying with international standards. A handful who sought a permit to demonstrate was taken away by security officials, rights groups said.
Earlier this week, two elderly Chinese women—Wu Dianyuan, 79, and her neighbor Wang Xiuying, 77—who applied to protest were told they would be sent to a labor camp for a year. They were still at home Thursday under the surveillance of a government-sanctioned neighborhood watch group, Wang’s son Li Xuehui said.
Li said no cause was given for the order to imprison the pair. Activists said the order was an intimidation tactic.
The abrupt end of the separate protests—and the sentencing of six foreigners to 10 days of detention for “disrupting public order”—underscored China’s determination to prevent any disruption during the Olympics.
The government has said it would allow protests in three areas during the games, but no application to hold a demonstration has been accepted. One of the Hong Kong protesters on Thursday, Wang Pei, told The Associated Press his group also tried to submit an application.
“But police put up many obstacles to make it difficult,” Wang said from a police station where the group—five men, two women and a teenage girl—was being held.
----
Two Associated Press photographers were roughed up by plainclothes security officers, forced into cars and taken to a nearby building where they were questioned before being released. Memory cards from their cameras were confiscated.
----
Some 77 applications were lodged to hold protests, none went ahead. Rights groups say the zones were just a way for the Chinese government to put on an appearance of complying with international standards. A handful who sought a permit to demonstrate was taken away by security officials, rights groups said.
Earlier this week, two elderly Chinese women—Wu Dianyuan, 79, and her neighbor Wang Xiuying, 77—who applied to protest were told they would be sent to a labor camp for a year. They were still at home Thursday under the surveillance of a government-sanctioned neighborhood watch group, Wang’s son Li Xuehui said.
Li said no cause was given for the order to imprison the pair. Activists said the order was an intimidation tactic.
Yes, let's be sure to lock up the old women and work them to death.
QUOTE(Joe in Philly @ Aug 16 2008, 05:30 PM)
The opening ceremonies were just filled with fraud! They had a "pretty" girl lip-sync to the "not pretty" girl's voice. They mixed in computer-generated fireworks with the real ones. And now it turns out that the 56 kids who were supposed to be from 56 different Chinese ethnic groups weren't. Instead, they were actors from a troupe comprised primarily of one ethnic group.
I thought that was pretty obvious when I was watching it live. The kids were too clean-cut, the costumes were obviously brand new and made for the ceremony, and the kids didn't look like they were of different ethnicities. Being a large country, different ethnic groups in China may look like people from some of the boardering countries, which are quite diverse: Mongolia, Kazakhstan, India, Nepal, Burma, Viet Nam, not to mention the occupied Tibet.
I also thought the opening ceremony was pathitic.
In watching the 2008 drummers at the beginning, one of them missed their cue. What frauds.
And during the parade of all the women in their costumes, one of those women didn't smile. Shocking! Of course the costumes were new. DUH!
The lip-syncing, big deal. This has been done in every american artistic mediam accordingly. Live shows like the grammys and the oscar telecast. Not to mention film and videos. In fact, during the opening ceremony at the 1984 games in L.A., dozens of grand pianos played classical music which was dubbed.
And some of the fireworks were animated. The commentators said this at the time. And the guys under the chinese printing blocks moving up and down were actually robots made in Japan.
All the censorship in the media surrounding these games and the opening are not only understandable but is exactly what the U.S. would do in same conditions. Our government sensors media coverage of protest during political conventions, super bowls and other national events. This due to the partnership of media executives and the government. So stop the hypocritical view points. How naive. And I thought I was.
As far as I'm concerned, the opening ceremony was the most astonishing spectacle the world has seen. Absolutely brilliant. Politics and deceit did not make those drummers at the beginning of the ceremony hit those drums at the exact moment. Those Chinese printing blocks were moved by people not censorship.
For once we saw that the human spirit is capable of beauty and inspiration. For once we witnessed what is capable when we stop dropping bombs on each other.
In watching the 2008 drummers at the beginning, one of them missed their cue. What frauds.
And during the parade of all the women in their costumes, one of those women didn't smile. Shocking! Of course the costumes were new. DUH!
The lip-syncing, big deal. This has been done in every american artistic mediam accordingly. Live shows like the grammys and the oscar telecast. Not to mention film and videos. In fact, during the opening ceremony at the 1984 games in L.A., dozens of grand pianos played classical music which was dubbed.
And some of the fireworks were animated. The commentators said this at the time. And the guys under the chinese printing blocks moving up and down were actually robots made in Japan.
All the censorship in the media surrounding these games and the opening are not only understandable but is exactly what the U.S. would do in same conditions. Our government sensors media coverage of protest during political conventions, super bowls and other national events. This due to the partnership of media executives and the government. So stop the hypocritical view points. How naive. And I thought I was.
As far as I'm concerned, the opening ceremony was the most astonishing spectacle the world has seen. Absolutely brilliant. Politics and deceit did not make those drummers at the beginning of the ceremony hit those drums at the exact moment. Those Chinese printing blocks were moved by people not censorship.
For once we saw that the human spirit is capable of beauty and inspiration. For once we witnessed what is capable when we stop dropping bombs on each other.
Looking forward to the closing ceremonies. Just heard that they will be directed again by Zhang Yimou and may invoolve actors pretending to be real people. 
Part of the ceremony will be devoted to London, site of the 2012 Summer Games. David Beckham (who will "kick footballs from the top of a red double-decker bus") and Jimmy Page (performing Zepplin's Whole Lotta Love) will be featured. No word on whether the Dalai Lama will make a suprise appearance. 
Part of the ceremony will be devoted to London, site of the 2012 Summer Games. David Beckham (who will "kick footballs from the top of a red double-decker bus") and Jimmy Page (performing Zepplin's Whole Lotta Love) will be featured. No word on whether the Dalai Lama will make a suprise appearance.
QUOTE(Baxion @ Aug 23 2008, 07:23 AM)
The lip-syncing, big deal. This has been done in every american artistic mediam accordingly. Live shows like the grammys and the oscar telecast. Not to mention film and videos.
The difference is that the person whose voice was heard was still the person whose face was seen (except in the case of C&C Music Factory's "Gonna Make You Sweat" video where they used Martha Wash's vocal and had another, slimmer, woman lip-syncing. That's what China did.
QUOTE
All the censorship in the media surrounding these games and the opening are not only understandable but is exactly what the U.S. would do in same conditions. Our government sensors media coverage of protest during political conventions, super bowls and other national events. This due to the partnership of media executives and the government.
That's not government censorship. That's the media voluntarily censoring itself. There's a difference.
QUOTE
Politics and deceit did not make those drummers at the beginning of the ceremony hit those drums at the exact moment.
No, it was the prospect of a trip to the labor camps with the 79-year-old women that inspired them.
Beijing Olympics remind us to cherish freedom
QUOTE
...on Day 1 of competition, (Todd) Bachman, a millionaire from America's heartland, was stabbed to death at lunchtime at the site of Beijing's first timepiece. His wife was nearly slain, too. His daughter, a former Olympic volleyball player, watched it. A local guide was injured.
It was as if it never happened.
The public was not notified of the slaying for 3 1/2 hours.
Residents and business owners near the scene immediately were warned by police and "volunteers" to erase their memories and seal their lips.
With terror in their eyes, they forgot, and shut up.
That's what this country is about. Here, the government, not the people, controls what you say, what you read, what you do and how many babies you can have (one).
This should be a clear lesson to any American who willingly surrenders any freedom in the name of anything.
There can be vigilance without fascism. There cannot be communism without fascism. At least, there has not been....
The guide, a 26-year-old woman, never completely identified, has disappeared.
The USOC and International Olympic Committee were completely complicit with the Chinese government's wish to mute the horror. They continue to be so.
USOC chief Peter Ueberroth said his organization investigated the matter. Ueberroth provided no specifics about the investigation or the attacker, a 47-year-old named Tang Yongming, who, according only to the government, jumped to his death after the attack.
Ueberroth said he was convinced the attack was not politically motivated. He called the attacker "crazy."
He provided no evidence for either.
Perhaps Tang was unstable, and perhaps he acted alone, but there remains significant relevance in the act. It was a knife attack on Westerners in a tower once used as a museum of nationalism, if not xenophobia, since the museum recounted historic aggressions by foreigners toward China.
Ueberroth, the IOC and the Chinese government have not addressed those points.
This is what happens when absolute power reigns. This, for Americans, should be terrifying.
Despite sanitized global television coverage and virtually no coverage here, the slaying and its murky aftermath marred the rest of a well-presented, well-organized celebration of an emerging country.
It was as if it never happened.
The public was not notified of the slaying for 3 1/2 hours.
Residents and business owners near the scene immediately were warned by police and "volunteers" to erase their memories and seal their lips.
With terror in their eyes, they forgot, and shut up.
That's what this country is about. Here, the government, not the people, controls what you say, what you read, what you do and how many babies you can have (one).
This should be a clear lesson to any American who willingly surrenders any freedom in the name of anything.
There can be vigilance without fascism. There cannot be communism without fascism. At least, there has not been....
The guide, a 26-year-old woman, never completely identified, has disappeared.
The USOC and International Olympic Committee were completely complicit with the Chinese government's wish to mute the horror. They continue to be so.
USOC chief Peter Ueberroth said his organization investigated the matter. Ueberroth provided no specifics about the investigation or the attacker, a 47-year-old named Tang Yongming, who, according only to the government, jumped to his death after the attack.
Ueberroth said he was convinced the attack was not politically motivated. He called the attacker "crazy."
He provided no evidence for either.
Perhaps Tang was unstable, and perhaps he acted alone, but there remains significant relevance in the act. It was a knife attack on Westerners in a tower once used as a museum of nationalism, if not xenophobia, since the museum recounted historic aggressions by foreigners toward China.
Ueberroth, the IOC and the Chinese government have not addressed those points.
This is what happens when absolute power reigns. This, for Americans, should be terrifying.
Despite sanitized global television coverage and virtually no coverage here, the slaying and its murky aftermath marred the rest of a well-presented, well-organized celebration of an emerging country.
Why don't you insert the 1996 Atlanta games into that post JIP. You get the same same story.
In fact none of your arguements in my opinion to my earlier post 8/23 has any strength. It just doesn't wash.
In fact none of your arguements in my opinion to my earlier post 8/23 has any strength. It just doesn't wash.
This has nothing to do with 1996 or your arguments, about which your information is wrong thus making them laughable to begin with. This is about China today.
How did these two fare in Chinese prison? Let's take a look at some of the details...
Beijing. What a glorious showcase for the Olympic ideals.
QUOTE
Detained separately, Rae and Conley met Sunday at the Beijing Airport, where they were forced to buy $2,000 tickets on Air China to Los Angeles, even though they already had booked return flights.
----
About 1 a.m. Aug. 19, Rae said, he and others were leaving a restaurant when "a sea of cops" with video cameras suddenly came down the street and arrested them.
Rae said he was taken to the "unmarked" Hainan Hotel, where he was interrogated for 22 straight hours. He said he repeatedly had been asked: "Who sent you?" and "Why are you here?"
Meanwhile, Conley, who was feeling sick, had stayed at the Hotel Bo Tai - near where Rae was being detained - when a knock on the door awoke him.
Police told him they were conducting a routine investigation about Chinese threatening tourists - the first of many misstatements - and asked him to go with them, Conley said.
----
After 22 hours, the two men were taken to the Chong Wen Detention Center and held separately in a 12-by-30-foot room with 10 to 12 others.
Each inmate was assigned a wooden bed, with a drawer underneath, and all the beds were pushed together, like a platform, on one side of the room.
Rae said he was given a "blanket reeking of urine, a dirty Tupperware-like bowl and filthy spoon, in which rice and vegetables were dumped. Drinking water was available for only 15 minutes early in the morning - if you could find a bottle. Otherwise you won't have water that day," he added.
----
For seven hours at a time, Rae said, he was interrogated in a metal chair with a high back and a metal bar on his lap, with bars in front of him, as if he was in a cage. Seven cops threw questions at him.
Rae told them the truth: He was a photojournalist documenting pro-Tibetan protests.
Police said "what we were doing was far more egregious because we were trying to split Tibet from the motherland and send images around the world," Rae said.
----
Asked if he had been beaten, he said he was repeatedly slapped on the shoulders. "After you're up for 36 hours straight, pushing is magnified a bit," Rae said. "They were extremely angry with us."
Meantime, at the recommendation of Students for a Free Tibet, Conley claimed he was a tourist and listed what he had videotaped: the Great Wall, the Forbidden City, Tiananmen Square, the Dirt Market.
He contended that he was just visiting, noticed the protesters and filmed them.
"I stonewalled them,"Conley said.
At one point, he text-messaged his pregnant wife, Eowyn Rieke, a physician: "In jail. All fine."
Later, he e-mailed his and other Twitter social-networking accounts.
Two inmates stayed up all night to watch the other inmates, and the pair were rewarded with little things by the guards. In the evenings, inmates were allowed to watch only one program, usually table tennis, on CCTV, the Chinese network.
Through a surveillance camera and loudspeaker, guards kept watch on the TV-watching inmates, who all had to sit upright in chairs next to each other. If someone slumped, the TV was shut off, Rae said.
For exercise, they had to walk in circles around the room all at the same time, Rae said.
Most foreigners were jailed for alleged visa problems, but one 22-year-old Chinese man confided that he had been sentenced to two years of hard labor for practicing Falun Gong, a religion banned in China.
"My people are tortured when they go to labor camps," he said. "I'm really scared."
Two days later, he was moved.
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About 1 a.m. Aug. 19, Rae said, he and others were leaving a restaurant when "a sea of cops" with video cameras suddenly came down the street and arrested them.
Rae said he was taken to the "unmarked" Hainan Hotel, where he was interrogated for 22 straight hours. He said he repeatedly had been asked: "Who sent you?" and "Why are you here?"
Meanwhile, Conley, who was feeling sick, had stayed at the Hotel Bo Tai - near where Rae was being detained - when a knock on the door awoke him.
Police told him they were conducting a routine investigation about Chinese threatening tourists - the first of many misstatements - and asked him to go with them, Conley said.
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After 22 hours, the two men were taken to the Chong Wen Detention Center and held separately in a 12-by-30-foot room with 10 to 12 others.
Each inmate was assigned a wooden bed, with a drawer underneath, and all the beds were pushed together, like a platform, on one side of the room.
Rae said he was given a "blanket reeking of urine, a dirty Tupperware-like bowl and filthy spoon, in which rice and vegetables were dumped. Drinking water was available for only 15 minutes early in the morning - if you could find a bottle. Otherwise you won't have water that day," he added.
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For seven hours at a time, Rae said, he was interrogated in a metal chair with a high back and a metal bar on his lap, with bars in front of him, as if he was in a cage. Seven cops threw questions at him.
Rae told them the truth: He was a photojournalist documenting pro-Tibetan protests.
Police said "what we were doing was far more egregious because we were trying to split Tibet from the motherland and send images around the world," Rae said.
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Asked if he had been beaten, he said he was repeatedly slapped on the shoulders. "After you're up for 36 hours straight, pushing is magnified a bit," Rae said. "They were extremely angry with us."
Meantime, at the recommendation of Students for a Free Tibet, Conley claimed he was a tourist and listed what he had videotaped: the Great Wall, the Forbidden City, Tiananmen Square, the Dirt Market.
He contended that he was just visiting, noticed the protesters and filmed them.
"I stonewalled them,"Conley said.
At one point, he text-messaged his pregnant wife, Eowyn Rieke, a physician: "In jail. All fine."
Later, he e-mailed his and other Twitter social-networking accounts.
Two inmates stayed up all night to watch the other inmates, and the pair were rewarded with little things by the guards. In the evenings, inmates were allowed to watch only one program, usually table tennis, on CCTV, the Chinese network.
Through a surveillance camera and loudspeaker, guards kept watch on the TV-watching inmates, who all had to sit upright in chairs next to each other. If someone slumped, the TV was shut off, Rae said.
For exercise, they had to walk in circles around the room all at the same time, Rae said.
Most foreigners were jailed for alleged visa problems, but one 22-year-old Chinese man confided that he had been sentenced to two years of hard labor for practicing Falun Gong, a religion banned in China.
"My people are tortured when they go to labor camps," he said. "I'm really scared."
Two days later, he was moved.
Beijing. What a glorious showcase for the Olympic ideals.
Now reports are coming out revealing that there was some musical fakery at the Sydney Olympics, too. Seems the Sydney Symphony Orchestra 'performed' while music by musicians from the Melbourne Symphony (and some members of Sydney) played.
QUOTE
The orchestra’s managing director told The Sydney Morning Herald that it not only mimed over a pre-recorded set for the opening of the Sydney Olympics in 2000, but that some of the pieces were recorded by the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra. Both orchestras were quoted in the story saying the miming act was done purely as a safeguard in case anything went wrong during the performance.
And the good old United States can invade a sovereign nation, Iraq (without the request of its citizens) and murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people, in the name of so-called democracy, and yet still have the audacity to reprimand and threaten the "breakaway" states of Georgia who have stated that they wish to affiliate with Russia.......not to mention their frequent incursions into Central and South America.
How about America taking a good look at itself for once?
Sure the Chinese have much to answer for.......but let's start at home heh?
Superman UK
How about America taking a good look at itself for once?
Sure the Chinese have much to answer for.......but let's start at home heh?
Superman UK
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