Chill-Trick
Sep 4 2008, 06:10 AM
Her speech, the way she delivered it and how she sounded was actually pretty good...however I basically disagreed with almost everything she said...but she did it good.
Levi Johnson...kinda cute! But I got the "I banged this girl, now I'm wrapped up in all this sh*t" vibe he was giving out. It was a nice touch to have him come out on the stage with his hand super glued to Bristol's hand though.
And husband Todd? Did anyone else's gaydar go off big time last night?
Oh, and Barbie McCain holding Track or Trig.....yup, that wasn't done for the camera.
J eddie
Sep 4 2008, 06:32 AM
I don't understand bringing a little baby to that kind of event?! Are they hoping the baby will end up deaf? Anyway,the thought of this twit ending up as president in case something happens to McCain is just as scary as going hunting with Dick Cheney! This is all too weird.It's difficult enough stomaching Cindy McCain but this is all too much!!
BigBlueCowboy
Sep 4 2008, 06:58 AM
Though her politics might not be to your liking. Palin's speech was very good and effective. She certainly was not angry. She connected with the audience at the convention, clearly. And she connected as well to the TV audience. That line about being the advocate for those families who deal with Down syndrome was good. It may have been a mistake to bring up the "bridge to nowhere." She's very vulnerable there. And the line about community organizing was a bit of a low blow at Obama. She's no lightweight. It'll be interesting to see how she goes at it with Biden. He has good one-liners (best was about Rudy being a noun, a verb, and 9/11), but he can also be a long-winded gas bag at times!
But again, the VP choice doesn't matter. People vote for the top choice! And it'll go down to the wire. We'll be up all night, just like 2000.
Bill W
Sep 4 2008, 08:32 AM
Was Sarah Smile auditioning for "Fargo 2: Marge Gets Medieval"? If the Repubs are elected and we have to hear those flaaaaat vowels regularly, I may shoot myself.
Anyway, the Veep Debate should be a splendid display of political prickdom if she and Biden are at the top of their vicious kneecapping game. It may sink the turnout below 50%.
boomer400
Sep 4 2008, 08:33 AM
All last night showed is Palin's facility at reading from a teleprompter in front of an ecstatic audience. (Pretty funny hearing people who have trashed Obama for months about "just words" creaming themselves over....a speech.) It's still an open question how she would fare in an unscripted town hall meeting, a press interview, or the VP debate, let alone negotiations with a foreign head of state. The prospect of someone like Tim Russert interviewing Sarah Palin is almost comical.
We are coming full circle. The media trips over itself (justifiably) calling her unqualified, corrupt, petty, etc. Then when she doesn't fall on her face in a scripted speech, the narrative shifts to "oh wait, she's not so bad after all!" Meanwhile, she won't be more than an arm's length away from a handler from now until November--not unlike her running mate, whose press availability has been severely restricted by Steve Schmidt since his arrival.
The pick has been an absolute disaster so far. Any week where the GOP doesn't attack Obama is a bad week for the GOP. But the selection will probably even out into irrelevance, just like every other VP in history.
hockeyTom
Sep 4 2008, 08:40 AM
What I am thinking though is that I wonder, how many Republicans would secretly wish for a Palin/McCain ticket instead of the other way around. Lets face it, they were not excited by McCain before this pick, now she has them excited.
TheOtherFSU
Sep 4 2008, 09:34 AM
An excerpt from The Nation's review of Palin's speech:
Sarah Palin gave a riveting and devastating nomination speech on Wednesday night. She shared her inspiring story and brave family, while savaging and ridiculing the celebrated life story of Barack Obama, a fellow barrier-breaking candidate, with whithering attacks on his work as a community organizer, senator, and author. She misrepresented his record and simply lied about her own, claiming to oppose earmarks that she supported, and dissembling on her $1.5 billion tax hike and record of raising sales taxes by 25 percent in Wasilla.
Reviewing the McCain Campaign's bullying, "unprofessional" onslaught against anyone who notes Palin's extreme positions and dishonest claims, Time's Joe Klein urged reporters to face facts: "I hope my colleagues stand strong in this case: it is important for the public to know that Palin raised taxes as governor, supported the Bridge to Nowhere before she opposed it, pursued pork-barrel projects as mayor, tried to ban books at the local library and thinks the war in Iraq is "a task from God."
By all accounts, Palin faced a huge task in St Paul. She had to prove she was up to the job of commander in chief.
She struck out big-time -- in a biting speech that showed the only job she was ready for is RNC Chair, another ruthless soldier in Karl Rove's army.
fantomas
Sep 4 2008, 10:23 AM
I sat through the whole thing. Very little substance on the major issues facing the country, like the economy, foreign policy, education, etc, except for oil-related topics; lots of lies; and zero mention of her controversial past actions like trying to ban books, loyalty tests, raising taxes constantly, leaving a town with a $6 million budget with over $20 million in debt, hiring an Abramoff lobbyist to get earmarks, sitting through sermons in which Jews were blamed for the Muslim attacks on them, and so forth.
Instead, there were lots of vicious attacks on Obama, a number of them specious, but I expected no less.
I'm still surprised that she keeps blatantly lying when a quick Google presents facts--like .pdfs and documents from Alaskan government and journalistic sources that contradict her statements. I mean, how dumb do she and the Republicans think Americans are?
Are the GOP now promoting teen premarital sex? They appear to be doing so by parading the daughter's boyfriend in front of a national audience. If Democrats did this we'd never hear the end of it. Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly both harshly slammed Jamie Lynn Spears and her parents when that underage teen got pregnant, but now it's fine for the Palins?
simontexas
Sep 4 2008, 11:01 AM
I watched part of Guiliani's speech and waited to see how long it took until he mentioned 9/11. And then they immediately put up a picture of the NY skyline sans towers...I thought that was tactless only because they are trying to harp on people's fears again and again. Then the part when he was making the point about how the American people choose who is the president. He said something similar to that the media doesn't decide, and the special interest groups do not decide, etc. I actually yelled out...and the Supreme Court shouldn't decide either!
Wow, and that diverse crowd! I think I will be able to recognize the African-American delegate on the street if I run into him. Also, I haven't seen Newt Gingrich applaud once.
Sarah Palin's speech was equivilent to a pep rally speech - which these convention speechs are basically, but her speech actually put me in that mindframe. I didn't hear any substance, just a lot of biting rhetoric. She really dragged back some stuff from the last year and a half of campaigning such as the bitter gun & bible clutchers remark. That right there showed me how truly afraid the Repubs are that they are going to lose this election. I can't wait until they use the image of Palin's daughter licking her hand to fix baby Trig's hair. I hope they put it on a video loop on McCain's webpage.
The Biden-Palin debate will be something to watch. I think it has already started with Biden's comments about her speech. Go Joe!
SFJohn
Sep 4 2008, 11:13 AM
The way Palin mocked and ridiculed Obama's community organizing on the south side of Chicago was appalling. Obama became a community activist on the south side after all the steel mills had closed and that part of the city was in big, big trouble. He tried to lift people up at a time when they had little hope. For Palin to mock that, especially when her husband is a supposed steel worker and steel union member himself, is disgusting.
I'm surprised many haven't mentioned on here that her maiden name is Heath and she is part of the Heath Candy Bar fortune. I think the Republicans are trying to keep that under wraps because it doesn't fit with the way they're trying to turn her into the plucky, pull-yourself-up-by-your bootstraps, down home gal. All I see when I look at her is trash.
It never ceases to amaze me how when a minority teen is pregnant, the Republicans tell us about the dangers of welfare and the destruction of family values, but when Palin's daughter gets pregnant, it's a heartwarming tale of God bringing love into the world.
Chill-Trick
Sep 4 2008, 11:40 AM
I was wondering something....will Obama ever get to debate Palin? Or he just McCain, and Biden only Palin?
hockeyTom
Sep 4 2008, 11:53 AM
I couldn't possibly have said it any better than
this.
TheOtherFSU
Sep 4 2008, 12:28 PM
CNN just reported that Sarah Palin cut funding for special-needs children by 62% in Alaska. She's scum.
New Rasmussen and Gallup tracking polls out today. Rasmussen still shows Obama at 50% with no change from yesterday. Gallup's daily tracking shows Obama moving up to a 7% lead at 49-42%, up a point from yesterday when Obama led 49-43%. McCain's support actually fell. The election is only 7 weeks from this coming Tuesday.
jaragonus
Sep 4 2008, 06:08 PM
That poor baby was passed around as some sort of prop- first Cindy had him, the his dad, then the sister-I'm surrpise Sarah did not carry him around during her speech.
mets57
Sep 5 2008, 01:50 AM
mccain's speech put me to sleep.
palin's speech was totally devoid of substance. she's just a snarky, mean-spirited, trailer trash bitch.
hockeyTom
Sep 5 2008, 06:14 AM
I just saw a story online where right after Palins speech Obama raked in $10 million. So keep on talking!!!!
boomer400
Sep 5 2008, 07:21 AM
QUOTE(golfer 25 @ Sep 4 2008, 09:33 AM)

Meanwhile, she won't be more than an arm's length away from a handler from now until November--not unlike her running mate, whose press availability has been severely restricted by Steve Schmidt since his arrival.
...and here we go. Palin won't take any questions from the press.
"Who cares if she can talk to Time Magazine?"See also:
The Sarah Palin Cone of Silence
BoSoxRudy
Sep 5 2008, 08:50 AM
I don't know if liberals understand just how fired up the Republican/conservative base is (it ain't just a river in Egypt, ya know). Ted Nugent and his NRA buddies are ready to move mountains for Sarah Palin. Pro-lifers are frantically setting up phone banks and organizing get-out-the-vote drives. Christians are talking to everyone they know and knocking on doors to talk to total strangers. And conservatives all over (whether of the fiscal or social variety), who were so mistrustful of McCain, are breathing a huge sigh of relief because with his pick of Palin, we feel assured that John McCain is indeed one of us. The big thing the polls are missing is just how high Republican and conservative turnout will be in November. If McCain/Palin win, all the usual liberal charges will fly: "Fraud!", "Rigged!", "Stolen!", and of course "Racism!" Hate to disappoint, but it will be none of the above. It's that Barack Obama belittles us for clinging to our guns and religion (oh, how nuanced), whereas John McCain and Sarah Palin understand us and respect us. Since I started voting Republican in the '96 election, I've done so with little enthusiasm. I voted for the Republican mostly just because the Democrat made me nauseous. This is the first election that I'll be striding up to the voting booth psyched as hell.
simontexas
Sep 5 2008, 09:35 AM
Thanks for the reality check BoSoxRudy. It is going to be a fight. The conservatives are going to come out strong and partly because they do believe there is a good chance they may not win. I have to say though, that race (maybe not racism) is an issue among the GOP. As I mentioned previously, the horrible lack of diversity among the delegates is frightening. The GOP has not done anything to be more inclusive in their party. When I hear McCain say, "We are Georgians" and Giuliani talk about Israel, many of the delegates had blank looks on their faces. In the Minnesota state congresswoman's speech about service on Tuesday and in Gov. Palin's speech - when they said the phrase 'faith-based' or 'religion," the crowd erupted. That exemplifies a general lack of respect for anything outside of a gun-toting, bible-clutching point of view. I do recognize that Obama was pandering to a San Francisco audience when he said that statement and the pandering aspect of it did annoy me.
You are right though; the choice of Gov. Palin was a sigh of relief for the conservative base because you could still measure a sense of uneasiness in the crowd last night whenever McCain came close to any small criticism of the Bush administration. I think that's the fine line McCain has to balance - talk about changing Washington without blaming the Bush administration.
I'm just glad that I don't live in a battleground state so I won't have to see all those adverts on TV for the next 2 months!
Share this video with your friends! Help HRC make sure that all your friends know about Obama's personal connection to the GLBT struggle for equality. Send them the link to our video! And remember – the first 20,000 people to send the video to their friends will receive a free Obama Equality sticker.
hockeyTom
Sep 5 2008, 09:37 AM
Hey thats exactly how I feel Bosox, and there are alot of Democrats out there who feel exactly the same way...whats been interesting is to hear how suddenly the McCain/Palin ticket has latched onto the key word "change", and shakeup. Even out here in my state of Washington, in the Governor race between Gregoire (D) and Rossi, ® in some Rossi ads, he mentions the phrase " for a change". That race could be just as interesting the second time around as it was the first time. I know the GOP will turnout for their ticket, but so will we.
boomer400
Sep 5 2008, 09:44 AM
QUOTE(BoSoxRudy @ Sep 5 2008, 09:50 AM)

I don't know if liberals understand just how fired up the Republican/conservative base is (it ain't just a river in Egypt, ya know).
Most Obama supporters DO understand that. I don't know why you would think otherwise.
Puschkin
Sep 5 2008, 09:49 AM
QUOTE(BoSoxRudy @ Sep 5 2008, 01:50 PM)

It's that Barack Obama belittles us for clinging to our guns and religion (oh, how nuanced), whereas John McCain and Sarah Palin understand us and respect us.
I think it's important to distinguish between "religion" and "denomination." Christianity, Judaism and Islam are religions, to name a few. Roman Catholicism, the Anglican Communion, Southern Baptism, Amish, Mormonism, the Metropolitan Community Churches and Westboro Baptism are denominations of Christianity, again to name a few. All of these have some very different interpretations about the relationship between G-d and man and how man should conduct himself as outlined in Christianity's seminal books of law and commentary, a.k.a. "the Bible." Though I don't know and cannot say for sure (and neither can you) that John McCain and Sarah Palin respect each religion equally, I seriously doubt that they understand and respect each denomination equally.
For the record, I have two nephews, who are brothers, eight years apart. Both are Autistic. I love them, and they love me. I would never trade them. And, my own mother had a child at the age forty (my youngest sister, the fifth of us; I am the eldest).
After that pregnancy, my mother's obstetrician advised my parents, despite that fact that they were practicing Catholics, that they should decide on a suitable and reliable form of birth control. They did.... despite the Church. I was about 14 by then, and for the first time, discovered condoms in my parent’s medicine cabinet. No shock. It seemed practical and smart.
As for the Palin selection, and since, all this past week, I've be ruminating over McCain's choice. There was something about her that was bothering me. But I couldn't put my finger on it. My brain had lots of the distractions. The general election, the economy (I was laid off on the first of July this year), some stayed-to-long guests over Labor Day weekend, the US Open Tennis (I'm a freak for it), et al.
This I knew immediately: Sarah Palin stands for just about everything I don't. Examples? Abortion rights, Creationism, Library Censorship, Christian Evangelism, Coastal Drilling, and more. And as for her mocking Obama on his 'community organizer' resume of jobs, honestly, I wanted to up heave and vomit. How petty.
Still, I couldn't get over it, that still, I was missing something. But I had a surprise last night. I dear friend of more than 25 years visited unexpectedly. We see each other rarely, yet we have remained very close all these ensuing years. My friend is smart, informed, educated with a Masters in Engineering Degree, accomplished, and married with a beautiful wife and child. Generally he is fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. After all, he is my friend.
But he expressed himself last night most vigorously and somewhat crudely about Sarah Palin. His words were, "How can we trust this woman to keep our borders secure, when she can't even secure the borders of her own vagina, as well as the vagina of her under-the-age-of-consent teenage daughter?"
Wow. Is that sexist or what? Or is it also indicative of reality? Was it responsible for Sarah Palin to allow herself to become pregnant at the age of 44, when statistically the risk of bearing Downs-Syndrome child is high? And was it responsible for Sarah Palin to advocate against school sex education programs that include instruction on the use of birth control devices, when ultimately her very own daughter could have prevented her teen pregnancy, might had she been better informed?
This is what I wonder about: Does Sarah Palin have the ability to make keen judgments? I am clear that my post might bring a ton of critique for its uncharming insensitivity. Yet still, I am very nervous about this VP Candidate assuming election to the Nation's 2nd in command.
TRL
CPT_Doom
Sep 5 2008, 03:01 PM
QUOTE
This is what I wonder about: Does Sarah Palin have the ability to make keen judgments? I am clear that my post might bring a ton of critique for its uncharming insensitivity. Yet still, I am very nervous about this VP Candidate assuming election to the Nation's 2nd in command.
Since my own grandmother was the apparent product of some rekindling of romance aboard ship when my great-grandparents emigrated (they already had 5 children ranging from age 16 - 7, with one dying at 3) I can't really fault Ms. Heath and her sex partner Mr. Palin for becoming pregnant at both 40 and 44 (IIRC, the 4th child is about 4 - 5). However I do believe there are enough legitimate questions about her judgement in her professional life to question her fitness for the Veep slot.
In fact, what I find most damning about her are the examples - troopergate, the town police chief, the town librarian - of when she capriciously fired staffers she felt were not enthusiastic enough supporters. In the case of her ex-brother-in-law, the trooper, she clearly acted unethically and potentially illegally; in the other two cases, it was just poor leadership and management.
When you add in the distortions she made about her own record - the "Bridge to Nowhere" that she supported when it was politically beneficial, and for which Alaska has already built an access road that now won't be used; the jet she put on ebay but actually did not sell that way (she ended up having to use a broker and the state lost $$ on the deal); the natural gas pipeline that has not been approved, only a preliminary contract for it has been awarded, and that was to a Canadian company - you see that she's really just GW Bush in a dress (no unintentional cheerleading puns intended).
Add to that her extreme ideological conservatism, which is currently being carefully hidden by the McSame campaign, and I think her fitness is more than a little questionable.
Chill-Trick
Sep 5 2008, 03:46 PM
QUOTE(BoSoxRudy @ Sep 5 2008, 09:50 AM)

This is the first election that I'll be striding up to the voting booth psyched as hell.
You're going up to the booth excited to be voting for a guy who doesn't care how many more soldiers die, just as long as he wins....and a woman who has taken steps to belittle homosexuals?
nice.
boomer400
Sep 5 2008, 06:07 PM
QUOTE(Chill-Trick @ Sep 5 2008, 04:46 PM)

You're going up to the booth excited to be voting for a guy who doesn't care how many more soldiers die, just as long as he wins....and a woman who has taken steps to belittle homosexuals?
nice.
Anything to avoid a 20% capital gains tax.
BoSoxRudy
Sep 5 2008, 06:19 PM
Oh, Chill Trick, your response was <drip sarcasm> so very nuanced </drip sarcasm>.
I'm sure you'll be striding up to the voting booth psyched as hell to vote for Barack Obama because of his unequivocal and unalloyed support for gay marriage. Oh wait, except he (minor detail here) doesn't really support gay marriage, does he? Or he'll pull a Slick Willy move, that is, he will shamelessly gladhand gays for our votes, and then when the time comes to pass legislation that will make gay marriage the law of the land, he'll weasel out of it. Clinton even went the extra mile by passing the contemptible Defense of Marriage Act, although you would never guess from the way liberal gays persisted in their unflagging support of the duplicitous assh*le. You really think that Obama/Biden will make gay marriage a reality in all 50 states? Yeah, you just keep thinkin' that, pal.
boomer400
Sep 5 2008, 06:44 PM
QUOTE(BoSoxRudy @ Sep 5 2008, 07:19 PM)

I'm sure you'll be striding up to the voting booth psyched as hell to vote for Barack Obama because of his unequivocal and unalloyed support for gay marriage. Oh wait, except he (minor detail here) doesn't really support gay marriage, does he? Or he'll pull a Slick Willy move, that is, he will shamelessly gladhand gays for our votes, and then when the time comes to pass legislation that will make gay marriage the law of the land, he'll weasel out of it. Clinton even went the extra mile by passing the contemptible Defense of Marriage Act, although you would never guess from the way liberal gays persisted in their unflagging support of the duplicitous assh*le.
I don't know if you've heard, but it's not 1993 any more. It's time to get over Bill Clinton.
QUOTE
You really think that Obama/Biden will make gay marriage a reality in all 50 states? Yeah, you just keep thinkin' that, pal.
This is such a ridiculous argument. Just because Obama won't make "gay marriage a reality in all 50 states" doesn't mean the two candidates are equivalent on GLBT issues.
- McCain is against civil unions, Obama is for civil unions.
- McCain supports Don't Ask Don't Tell, Obama is against Don't Ask Don't Tell.
- McCain supported the Arizona marriage amendment and supports the California marriage amendment. Obama opposes any constitutional amendment at the state or federal level, including the current Proposition 8.
- McCain: "I don’t believe in gay adoption." His advisers backtracked on this, saying it should be up to the states, but his instincts are obvious.
- McCain voted for DOMA, Obama opposed DOMA.
- McCain opposes including GLBT people in hate crime bills, Obama supports inclusion.
- McCain opposes including GLBT in ENDA, Obama supports inclusion.
- McCain is far more likely to nominate anti-gay justices to the Supreme Court.
It's one thing to have voted Republican back when all politicians were generally against gay rights. But to do so now, when gay soldiers on the front lines may be able to come out (75% of Americans support DADT's repeal), and when marriage and other union rights are spreading across the country, is almost unconscionable.
Is Obama perfect on gay issues? No. Will all those policies I listed actually get passed by Congress and signed by the president? Unlikely. But anyone who argues the two candidates would have an equal impact on the lives of gay Americans is a liar or a fool.
hockeyTom
Sep 5 2008, 08:29 PM
Perfect he ain't. But, anyone who has doubts about where Obama stands on the gay issues NEEDS to get a copy of the Advocate with him on the cover, about one issue back and read the article. Obama has been a supporter early and often going way back. Both he and Michelle have many gay friends. I have no doubt what so ever, we will have a good friend in the highest office in the land, and I certainly cannot say that about McCain should he be elected.
noumenon
Sep 5 2008, 09:13 PM
On a lighter note, I was expecting this when I heard the song played at RNC, and it happened.
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/articl...t_id=1003846678Heart Lashes Out Over 'Barracuda' Usage
Dean Goodman, Reuters
Rock group Heart, angry that its 70's hit "Barracuda" is being used as the unofficial theme song for Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin, is biting back at the Alaska governor...
PennState4Ever
Sep 6 2008, 03:57 AM
QUOTE(hockeyTom @ Sep 6 2008, 01:29 AM)

Perfect he ain't. But, anyone who has doubts about where Obama stands on the gay issues NEEDS to get a copy of the Advocate with him on the cover, about one issue back and read the article. Obama has been a supporter early and often going way back. Both he and Michelle have many gay friends. I have no doubt what so ever, we will have a good friend in the highest office in the land, and I certainly cannot say that about McCain should he be elected.
While I can say with some satisfaction that I have never cracked the cover of an issue of the Advocate, I'm relieved to know that the "some of my best friends are gay" defense remains an acceptable measure of a candidate's worth.
hockeyTom
Sep 6 2008, 06:09 AM
I can't wait to hear the Log Cabins take on
this!
J eddie
Sep 6 2008, 06:17 AM
I find it interesting that all those Uber-Conservative Evangelicals that McCain was trying to win over are not repulsed by the situation with Pailin's pregnant teenage daughter.

It does make you wonder.
sportinlife
Sep 6 2008, 07:55 AM
Every individual in Sarah Palin's 7 member family will get a payout of
about $3200 dollars this year. Alaska has
no state sales tax or state income tax. This is all possible due to
oil wealth that resembles one of the oil-rich arab gulf states more than the other states in this country.
I think it is a perfectly legitimate question to ask of Palin: "How does your experience running this state prepare you to run the rest of the nation?"
George Twins fan
Sep 6 2008, 08:51 AM
QUOTE(noumenon @ Sep 5 2008, 10:13 PM)

On a lighter note, I was expecting this when I heard the song played at RNC, and it happened.
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/articl...t_id=1003846678Heart Lashes Out Over 'Barracuda' Usage
Dean Goodman, Reuters
Rock group Heart, angry that its 70's hit "Barracuda" is being used as the unofficial theme song for Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin, is biting back at the Alaska governor...
Jackson Browne also sued the McCain campaign for using his song "Running on Empty" in an attack ad against Obama. John Mellencamp also made the McCain campaign stop using one of his songs.
noumenon
Sep 6 2008, 10:05 AM
Palin's Wasilla church comrades will "pray away the gays". Isn't that a catchy rhyme?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26567170/
HornFan
Sep 6 2008, 10:22 AM
QUOTE(PennState4Ever @ Sep 6 2008, 03:57 AM)

While I can say with some satisfaction that I have never cracked the cover of an issue of the Advocate, I'm relieved to know that the "some of my best friends are gay" defense remains an acceptable measure of a candidate's worth.
You've made it clear that you are anti-Obama with your (consistent) backhanded comments about him and I have not read the Advocate article either, but I don't think the poster was suggesting that having gay friends was the thrust of the article. It's interesting that you are proud to have never read the Advocate even though you don't have the first clue what is inside. I'm not sure what you are afraid of there.
Obama has walked the talk regarding gays in his personal and legislative life. He supports federal benefits and protections for gays including access to survivor benefits. He supports the passage of ENDA. He supports enhancing hate crime legislation by passing the Mathew Shepherd Act. He wants to repeal DADT. He would like to see an increase for AIDS and AIDS awareness funding and he supports gay civil unions. I dare say you can't say any of those things about McCain/Palin (except that they may have some gay freinds...although I'm not sure Palin has played that card because her hands are full of evangelical pablum).
boomer400
Sep 6 2008, 10:34 AM
QUOTE(PennState4Ever @ Sep 6 2008, 04:57 AM)

While I can say with some satisfaction that I have never cracked the cover of an issue of the Advocate, I'm relieved to know that the "some of my best friends are gay" defense remains an acceptable measure of a candidate's worth.
Do you care that McCain supports and Obama opposes Don't Ask Don't Tell? You mention being in Baghdad (or, as mentioned by HornFan, sarcastically demean Obama) in almost every post.
CPT_Doom
Sep 6 2008, 11:37 AM
QUOTE
n a lighter note, I was expecting this when I heard the song played at RNC, and it happened.
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/articl...t_id=1003846678 Love me some Ann and Nancy Wilson! Of course, since Nancy Wilson is married to Cameron Crowe - one of those horrible liberals corrupting Hollywood and America's morals, what would you expect?
QUOTE
Obama has walked the talk regarding gays in his personal and legislative life. He supports federal benefits and protections for gays including access to survivor benefits. He supports the passage of ENDA. He supports enhancing hate crime legislation by passing the Mathew Shepherd Act. He wants to repeal DADT. He would like to see an increase for AIDS and AIDS awareness funding and he supports gay civil unions. I dare say you can't say any of those things about McCain/Palin (except that they may have some gay freinds...although I'm not sure Palin has played that card because her hands are full of evangelical pablum).
Exactly. Obama is not perfect on our agenda, but he ain't perfect on a lot of things. He's, after all, a human being and a politician (see one can be an Obama supporter AND rational - no kool-aid necessary). Not only is he light years ahead of McCain on gay issues, he also has not reversed himself as McCain has - since McCain needed to kowtow to the anti-gay hate movement if he wanted the nomination. What part of the GOP do you think Sarah Palin is supposed to firm up after all?
One other note that I really liked about the Advocate article (available online IIRC, since I don't subscribe either) was that Obama basically came out and challenged the LGBT community to continue pushing him on the marriage issue and laying the political/cultural groundwork for full equality. It was a very FDR kind of move. I don't for one minute believe Obama really cares about the word "marriage" - but he knows it is political suicide right now to be in favor of full equality and is making a calculated callous political move. It is one of the least attractive parts of his candidacy, but one I can understand. After all, as he points out in his own book
Audacity of Hope, politics requires compromise, and sometimes you have to support a package of legislation or ideas that contain small things you don't agree with, because the larger package is so good.
In fact, I know Michelle Obama, in speaking to an LGBT group (saw this online at the campaign website) stated that Obama does not care if states enact DP benefits, Civil Unions or Civil Marriage, he supports equal rights and believes the federal government should recognize them all.
De facto, therefore, he is in favor of gay marriage.
Just as FDR needed the votes of the Southern Democrats, and therefore could not go as far on equal rights for African-Americans as he would like (and, in fact, used his wife as a means of appealing to AA voters and undermining some of the segregation in society), Obama knows a large chunk of the country is just not comfortable with gay marriage, and this is not the election to fight that one out. He will go as far as is politically possible and kill it as a negative issue. Given the level of corruption in the current administration - and the trend toward that kind of corruption Ms "Don't f*ck with my sister or I'll get you fired" Palin has already shown, I can live with that choice if it boots the GOP out of office.
Munson Man
Sep 6 2008, 12:45 PM
QUOTE(hockeyTom @ Sep 5 2008, 09:29 PM)

Both he and Michelle have many gay friends.
Ugh!!
I have no doubt that Obama will be generally better on gay isues than McCain, and each individual should give that the weight they feel is appropriate.
But we should NEVER accept such an ignorant, self-loathing comment as that. It's incredibly offensive, and I'm disappointed that nobody else seems to care. Next we'll be hearing that the Obamas routinely congratulate their "many" gay friends for "acting straight," and that they feel their gay friends are "a credit to gays."
hockeyTom
Sep 6 2008, 01:24 PM
Its a good detailed article. Obama talks about the changes he is going to make to correct the inequities he feels currently exist as they relate to gay rights. Yes, he is against gay marraige, but he makes it clear his opinion is evolving on this. As I have said before it is perfectly clear we will have a friend in our corner. With McCain and especially Palin, we will NOT.
For those who want to check out this story,
read on.
kick
Sep 6 2008, 02:28 PM
QUOTE(CPT_Doom @ Sep 6 2008, 04:37 PM)

Love me some Ann and Nancy Wilson! Of course, since Nancy Wilson is married to Cameron Crowe - one of those horrible liberals corrupting Hollywood and America's morals, what would you expect?
Exactly. Obama is not perfect on our agenda, but he ain't perfect on a lot of things. He's, after all, a human being and a politician (see one can be an Obama supporter AND rational - no kool-aid necessary). Not only is he light years ahead of McCain on gay issues, he also has not reversed himself as McCain has - since McCain needed to kowtow to the anti-gay hate movement if he wanted the nomination. What part of the GOP do you think Sarah Palin is supposed to firm up after all?
One other note that I really liked about the Advocate article (available online IIRC, since I don't subscribe either) was that Obama basically came out and challenged the LGBT community to continue pushing him on the marriage issue and laying the political/cultural groundwork for full equality. It was a very FDR kind of move. I don't for one minute believe Obama really cares about the word "marriage" - but he knows it is political suicide right now to be in favor of full equality and is making a calculated callous political move. It is one of the least attractive parts of his candidacy, but one I can understand. After all, as he points out in his own book Audacity of Hope, politics requires compromise, and sometimes you have to support a package of legislation or ideas that contain small things you don't agree with, because the larger package is so good.
In fact, I know Michelle Obama, in speaking to an LGBT group (saw this online at the campaign website) stated that Obama does not care if states enact DP benefits, Civil Unions or Civil Marriage, he supports equal rights and believes the federal government should recognize them all. De facto, therefore, he is in favor of gay marriage.
Just as FDR needed the votes of the Southern Democrats, and therefore could not go as far on equal rights for African-Americans as he would like (and, in fact, used his wife as a means of appealing to AA voters and undermining some of the segregation in society), Obama knows a large chunk of the country is just not comfortable with gay marriage, and this is not the election to fight that one out. He will go as far as is politically possible and kill it as a negative issue. Given the level of corruption in the current administration - and the trend toward that kind of corruption Ms "Don't f*ck with my sister or I'll get you fired" Palin has already shown, I can live with that choice if it boots the GOP out of office.
Similarly with Michelle Obama, and despite my utter hatred for GWB, his wife Laura has noted that she does not agree with her husbands view of laws regarding the GLBT community. With five children, Sara Palin has a decent chance that one of her children may be GLB- lets hope for their sake that is a no.
George Twins fan
Sep 6 2008, 02:58 PM
Question...if John McCain were to die before the election, does palin become the nominee or would the RNC have to pick a new one? Morbid question I know but just curious.
sportinlife
Sep 6 2008, 03:56 PM
QUOTE(George Twins fan @ Sep 6 2008, 03:58 PM)

Question...if John McCain were to die before the election, does palin become the nominee or would the RNC have to pick a new one? Morbid question I know but just curious.
Good question, and not at all morbid considering the threat to both presidential candidates this year. The question and an answer were both
posited here. See "pretzlgirl" at the bottom.
Joe in Philly
Sep 6 2008, 05:02 PM
QUOTE(Munson Man @ Sep 6 2008, 01:45 PM)

Ugh!!
I have no doubt that Obama will be generally better on gay isues than McCain, and each individual should give that the weight they feel is appropriate.
But we should NEVER accept such an ignorant, self-loathing comment as that. It's incredibly offensive, and I'm disappointed that nobody else seems to care. Next we'll be hearing that the Obamas routinely congratulate their "many" gay friends for "acting straight," and that they feel their gay friends are "a credit to gays."
You're a credit to your people.
Yankees fans, that is.
WChip
Sep 6 2008, 06:35 PM
John McCain's not dead?? I hadn't heard.
TheOtherFSU
Sep 6 2008, 07:16 PM
Hmm. Maybe Palin could move to the top of the ticket and pick Fred Phelps as her running mate. That would certainly energize the base.
Mariner Duck Guy
Sep 6 2008, 07:49 PM
QUOTE(BoSoxRudy @ Sep 5 2008, 06:50 AM)

It's that Barack Obama belittles us for clinging to our guns and religion (oh, how nuanced), whereas John McCain and Sarah Palin understand us and respect us. Since I started voting Republican in the '96 election, I've done so with little enthusiasm. I voted for the Republican mostly just because the Democrat made me nauseous. This is the first election that I'll be striding up to the voting booth psyched as hell.
Ok, I never post in any of the P&R threads because, really, do any of these posts change anyone's mind? And usually it feels like a bunch of hens in the hen house. What's that song from "The Music Man?" Pick a little, talk a little, cheep cheep cheep, talk a lot pick a little more...
Anyhoo, I do have a couple of questions because I am in a curious mode this afternoon.
Rudy, buddy, no disrepect to your post, but I am really curious. What, exactly, has McCain done and what, exactly has Palin done to "understand you and respect you"?
This is off topic, but, to others who regularly post in the P&R thread. I am also very curious, especially to some of you who seem to be glued to ever political show on television. Are you all as dedicated and focused on your local elections and what state/city/county representatives/commissioners/judges/initiatives/measures are on your local ballot...a ballot which probably directly affects you and your wallet?
And one other observation. This particular thread has become one of the most "popular" thread on OS. People just can't stop talking about Palin can they? I have a friend who is OBSESSED over her (not supporting her) ever since McCain's announcement. He cannot NOT talk about her in any one sentence. If she's fired up Democrats, just imagine how much she has fired up the Republican base, as BoSox Rudy has mentioned and as Cyd has mentioned elsewhere. I work in a conservative industry (insurance) and I overhear some of my co-workers talking about Palin and they are all unanimously fired up over the Palin pick. Prior to the pick they never spoke of McCain. It was all about how much they hate Hillary. Which brings up another thing. Isn't it amazing how a powerful, charismatic woman always end up being called a bitch? Our CEO is a woman and the "b" word flies around quite regularly! Things that make you go hmmmmm.
And I don't know why people think she will be slammed in debates. I wouldn't underestimate her speaking ability. After all, she is a former pageant girl so she is well trained at getting unexpected questions fired at her and answering them with poise and grace. She also won Miss Congeniality so she knows charm. Although I would seriously piss in my pants if, after a long winded bullshit answer, she threw in a "...and World Peace".
Alright. My curiosity is over. Carry on.
tealsea
Sep 6 2008, 07:54 PM
QUOTE(sportinlife @ Sep 6 2008, 08:56 PM)

Good question, and not at all morbid considering the threat to both presidential candidates this year. The question and an answer were both
posited here. See "pretzlgirl" at the bottom.
I hadn't thought of Mc (where's my) Cane dying before he was elected. But it seems a reasonable thought for sometime during his (ohgawdn00oo) presidency. Then the Anti Gay would be president and that is unacceptable. However, I do think that there is a real possibility that attempts may be made to take Obama's life. Apparently the underground press knows things that the mainstream media does not want publicized...."because it gives people ideas." I pray this does not happen to the man. He has done so much good. I was thrilled to actually hear speakers at the convention say the word GAY. The reapublicanters would never utter the word. They just pretend like we aren't here....Until it comes to passing constitutional amendments. They piss me off so much I can't even write.
kick
Sep 6 2008, 08:48 PM
QUOTE(Mariner Duck Guy @ Sep 7 2008, 12:49 AM)

And one other observation. This particular thread has become one of the most "popular" thread on OS. People just can't stop talking about Palin can they? I have a friend who is OBSESSED over her (not supporting her) ever since McCain's announcement. He cannot NOT talk about her in any one sentence. If she's fired up Democrats, just imagine how much she has fired up the Republican base, as BoSox Rudy has mentioned and as Cyd has mentioned elsewhere. I work in a conservative industry (insurance) and I overhear some of my co-workers talking about Palin and they are all unanimously fired up over the Palin pick. Prior to the pick they never spoke of McCain. It was all about how much they hate Hillary. Which brings up another thing. Isn't it amazing how a powerful, charismatic woman always end up being called a bitch? Our CEO is a woman and the "b" word flies around quite regularly! Things that make you go hmmmmm.
And I don't know why people think she will be slammed in debates. I wouldn't underestimate her speaking ability. After all, she is a former pageant girl so she is well trained at getting unexpected questions fired at her and answering them with poise and grace. She also won Miss Congeniality so she knows charm. Although I would seriously piss in my pants if, after a long winded bullshit answer, she threw in a "...and World Peace".
I mean no disrespect to the insurance industry, but it is hugely conservative LOL (MDG knows I love him, so he doesn't count)
I got into a discussion with my agent about my rates because I recently relocated to the city. I gave details about my situation (parked, attended garage, etc, etc)- that I am only a mile from work, etc, etc. I have had no tickets, am over 30, drive a basic vehicle, etc, etc. Eventually I became so upset I asked if it was a racism thing LOL- she didn't like that. Eventually I mentioned how badly the insurance companies helped the victims of Hurrican Katrina and she did not like that. She said the people should have bought flood insurance. I told her that people have to choose between feeding their families or flood insurance, what do they do? Her response: "Well, at least they know where they stand." Then she proceeded to blame my rates on those not covered. I proceeded to hang up LOL
Oh well, just my story...
Back to Palin- she is such a distraction and it is a brilliant move to get people not talking about the depth of policies with Obama versus McCain. It is truly scary that she is getting all of this attention. It is even more scary of the concept that she could be making high level decisions that could effect the nation for ages- i.e. Supreme Court nominations, etc.
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