Munson Man
Sep 17 2008, 10:01 AM
QUOTE(mdterp01 @ Sep 17 2008, 12:47 AM)

Why is the race so close? Come on people. Please lets not keep the whole elephant in the room thing going.
Actually, I said this months ago. Of COURSE it's racism, but it's impossible to prove racism when it's not overt, so the media can't report it - although having no proof generally doesn't stop "journalists" like Keith Olbermann (who I see NBC has demoted from its election coverage thanks to the complaints of real journalists at the network).
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: if the polling the night before the election shows Obama ahead by about 51-49 or even 52-48, I think he loses the popular vote by a percentage point or two. We all have an element of racism with us, but there are still too many people who like to convince themselves they are "progressive" but who harbor deep unease at the thought of voting for a black man, and I think when the time comes and they are alone in the voting booth and nobody can see what they are doing they will vote McCain. I think that's one reason Obama is always so annoyingly measured in his responses: he knows better than anybody that Joe Sixpack finds nothing as menacing as an angry black man.
Sorry to be so blunt. I hope nobody fainted.
mdterp01
Sep 17 2008, 10:16 AM
QUOTE(Munson Man @ Sep 17 2008, 11:01 AM)

Actually, I said this months ago. Of COURSE it's racism, but it's impossible to prove racism when it's not overt, so the media can't report it - although having no proof generally doesn't stop "journalists" like Keith Olbermann (who I see NBC has demoted from its election coverage thanks to the complaints of real journalists at the network).
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: if the polling the night before the election shows Obama ahead by about 51-49 or even 52-48, I think he loses the popular vote by a percentage point or two. We all have an element of racism with us, but there are still too many people who like to convince themselves they are "progressive" but who harbor deep unease at the thought of voting for a black man, and I think when the time comes and they are alone in the voting booth and nobody can see what they are doing they will vote McCain. I think that's one reason Obama is always so annoyingly measured in his responses: he knows better than anybody that Joe Sixpack finds nothing as menacing as an angry black man.
Sorry to be so blunt. I hope nobody fainted.
I totally co-sign with that Munson. I mean it wasn't blunt to me. Its just reality. But it is a subject that a lot of people are uncomfortable to talk about. Ignoring it, however, isn't the solution.
hockeyTom
Sep 17 2008, 10:28 AM
The Palin effect may be wearing off.....Plus other random thoughts for the day. I am in total agreement with Donna Brazile too. Obama needs better commercials. Ones that will STICK!
George Twins fan
Sep 17 2008, 11:56 AM
I got this in an email and thought it was pretty spot on:
QUOTE
I'm a little confused. Let me see if I have this straight.....
* If you grow up in Hawaii , raised by your grandparents, you're "exotic, different."
* Grow up in Alaska eating mooseburgers, a quintessential American story.
* If your name is Barack you're a radical, unpatriotic Muslim.
* Name your kids Willow, Trig and Track, you're a maverick.
* Graduate from Harvard law School and you are unstable.
* Attend 5 different small colleges before graduating, you're well grounded.
* If you spend 3 years as a brilliant community organizer, become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, become chairman of the state Senate's Health and Human Services committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senate representing a
state of 13 million people while sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran's Affairs committees, you don't have any real leadership experience.
* If your total resume is: local weather girl, 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, 20 months as the governor of a state with only 650,000 people, then you're qualified to become the country's second highest ranking executive.
* If you have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 beautiful daughters, all within Protestant churches, you're not a real Christian.
* If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and left your disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you're a Christian.
* If you teach responsible, age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of birth control, you are eroding the fiber of society.
* If , while governor, you staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state's school system while your unwed teen daughter ends up pregnant, you're very responsible.
* If your wife is a Harvard graduate laywer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family, your family's values don't represent America's.
* If your husband is nicknamed "First Dude", with at least one DWI conviction and no college education, who didn't register to vote until age 25 and once was a member of a group that advocated the secession of Alaska from the USA, your family is extremely admirable.
OK, much clearer now.
SFJohn
Sep 17 2008, 12:23 PM
QUOTE(BoSoxRudy @ Sep 15 2008, 06:21 AM)

IIRC, Zogby was pretty much spot-on with the 2004 election results.
New Zogby/Reuters poll out this morning, and the mad rush towards Obama continues. Obama has gained 7% in the last week and moved from 5% down to 2% up.
Gallup Daily Tracking poll is the exact same. Obama is now up 2% at 47-45 after being down 5% last week. Combine these two with yesterday's Diageo/Hotline poll (Obama up by 4%) and Survey 2000 poll (Obama up by 4%) and things are looking good.
I do NOT agree with those who say that if Obama enters election day with a 2% lead in the polls, he will lose because of racism in the voting booth. Of course racism is still very prominent in this country and it exists. But I agree with Chuck Todd's analysis that he does not believe the full extent of the Obama vote is being measured and he just said this morning that it's quite possible Obama has a lead actually somewhere around 5 to 7% nationally and that it is much more likely that Obama will over-perform on election day compared to polling rather than under-perform based on enthusiasm along with surges in Democratic registration across the board.
This election shifted dramatically over the past few days, primarily because people are -- for the first time -- talking about issues. Real issues, like the economy. McSame's ads will get even nastier (if that's possible) in the coming days.
CPT_Doom
Sep 17 2008, 01:54 PM
QUOTE
I do NOT agree with those who say that if Obama enters election day with a 2% lead in the polls, he will lose because of racism in the voting booth. Of course racism is still very prominent in this country and it exists. But I agree with Chuck Todd's analysis that he does not believe the full extent of the Obama vote is being measured and he just said this morning that it's quite possible Obama has a lead actually somewhere around 5 to 7% nationally and that it is much more likely that Obama will over-perform on election day compared to polling rather than under-perform based on enthusiasm along with surges in Democratic registration across the board.
I agree that the potential for GOTV by Obama should be enough to counteract the Bradley/Wilder effect. IIRC, Obama's numbers in the primaries were about where they polled, showing relatively small Bradley/Wilder effects.
Bill W
Sep 17 2008, 02:42 PM
QUOTE(Munson Man @ Sep 17 2008, 03:01 PM)

I think that's one reason Obama is always so annoyingly measured in his responses: he knows better than anybody that Joe Sixpack finds nothing as menacing as an angry black man.
See, I think he's annoyingly measured in his responses because he's a Wall Street-funded, "mainstream" Democrat who's not nearly as different from McCain on the issues as his myopic vassals would like to believe.
Joe in Philly
Sep 17 2008, 03:54 PM
This obsession with the daily polls is ridiculous.
I think it would be fun to take about 1000 people and interview them daily to see if they're switching back and forth between one candidate or the other, or from decided to undecided. Then we'll see a daily poll that truly demonstrates whether a particular event or sound bite has an effect.
Munson Man
Sep 17 2008, 04:47 PM
QUOTE(Joe in Philly @ Sep 17 2008, 04:54 PM)

This obsession with the daily polls is ridiculous.
I think what's amusing is that we get these breathless posts about the polls only when Obama is doing well. When he's not, there's silence followed by dismissals of polls as being "too early."
I also think it's unhealthy to only get news from one source - the Chuck Todd fan club on here is scarier than a gaggle of screaming 10-year girls at a Miley Cyrus concert. Just because it's on MSNBC doesn't mean it's true - just search for Tom Brokaw's unflatterng commentary about his cable colleagues.
hockeyTom
Sep 17 2008, 04:59 PM
QUOTE(Munson Man @ Sep 17 2008, 02:47 PM)

I think what's amusing is that we get these breathless posts about the polls only when Obama is doing well. When he's not, there's silence followed by dismissals of polls as being "too early."
I also think it's unhealthy to only get news from one source - the Chuck Todd fan club on here is scarier than a gaggle of screaming 10-year girls at a Miley Cyrus concert. Just because it's on MSNBC doesn't mean it's true - just search for Tom Brokaw's unflatterng commentary about his cable colleagues.
True, and the same can be said of Faux News as well.
mdterp01
Sep 17 2008, 06:10 PM
QUOTE(Munson Man @ Sep 17 2008, 05:47 PM)

I think what's amusing is that we get these breathless posts about the polls only when Obama is doing well. When he's not, there's silence followed by dismissals of polls as being "too early."
I also think it's unhealthy to only get news from one source - the Chuck Todd fan club on here is scarier than a gaggle of screaming 10-year girls at a Miley Cyrus concert. Just because it's on MSNBC doesn't mean it's true - just search for Tom Brokaw's unflatterng commentary about his cable colleagues.
And what is so amusing about that? If most people are supporters of one particular person over another then of course you are going to hear more about when they are seemingly doing better. I don't see anything abnormal about that. I find it amusing that you think its amusing. Seems like natural human behavior to me. But as I have said...I don't know how much I'm even putting into the polls right now. Sure it says Obama is up a little or tied, but who knows? He could be. But the way these damn things fluctuate it could easily be McCain up by a few. I was told awhile ago to disregard the national polls because it is so close, and that its basically going to come down to each teams get out the vote organization on election day.
BoSoxRudy
Sep 17 2008, 06:52 PM
It's like any sports crowd. When their team is ahead, the crowd whoops and hollers. When the opposing team takes the lead, the crowd gets real quiet. As much as my head knows all too well that polls this far out don't mean much, I'm a political junkie, and I just can't help myself.
Bryan
Sep 17 2008, 07:08 PM
I think the polls are usually bullsh*t...I also think Obama's securely in front. The Palin glow has already faded and it's been just a couple of weeks since she hurled onto the scene. McCain seems like he's barely holding it together - watching him speak, watching him fumble through his answers to questions that don't seem all that tough to me, is nerve wracking to me: I feel like he's going to explode any minute! The McCain/Palin ticket will one day be on par with Dan Quayle as a national joke. Sure, it's still looking 'maverick and reformer' right now but when you strip away all the hoopla, it just falls apart.
There are certainly going to be those who freak at the thought of a black man being President but those people are likely all over 40 or 50 years old. The younger generation, those voting for perhaps the first time, are not looking at his skin color - they're looking at his substance and his ability to inspire and see things clearly and fairly.
I think we're watching the evolution of our country in action right this very moment - yes, it's moving very fast, and that can be very challenging and confusing, but nevertheless, this country has to change, the old ways, the old straight white boy elitist network has to change: and when I say elitist I mean the Bushes and the McCains because they certainly are that. McCain once was a true independent, I think...but he surely has sold his soul...I hope he can redeem himself when he goes back to the Senate. I'm disgusted with him.
mdterp01
Sep 17 2008, 07:24 PM
QUOTE(Bryan @ Sep 17 2008, 08:08 PM)

I think the polls are usually bullsh*t...I also think Obama's securely in front. The Palin glow has already faded and it's been just a couple of weeks since she hurled onto the scene. McCain seems like he's barely holding it together - watching him speak, watching him fumble through his answers to questions that don't seem all that tough to me, is nerve wracking to me: I feel like he's going to explode any minute! The McCain/Palin ticket will one day be on par with Dan Quayle as a national joke. Sure, it's still looking 'maverick and reformer' right now but when you strip away all the hoopla, it just falls apart.
There are certainly going to be those who freak at the thought of a black man being President but those people are likely all over 40 or 50 years old. The younger generation, those voting for perhaps the first time, are not looking at his skin color - they're looking at his substance and his ability to inspire and see things clearly and fairly.
I think we're watching the evolution of our country in action right this very moment - yes, it's moving very fast, and that can be very challenging and confusing, but nevertheless, this country has to change, the old ways, the old straight white boy elitist network has to change: and when I say elitist I mean the Bushes and the McCains because they certainly are that. McCain once was a true independent, I think...but he surely has sold his soul...I hope he can redeem himself when he goes back to the Senate. I'm disgusted with him.
Amen Bryan...to everything you posted, particularly about the younger generation not seeing race as an issue because they have had much more opportunity to experience integration. As for McCain... to think that back around 2000 I actually said "now McCain is a Republican I would vote for to be President". There was a time that I really did like him. He was truly independent. But yeah...he is nothing like he once was. Its sad.
hockeyTom
Sep 17 2008, 07:42 PM
Well said Bryan. For the record, I am just over 50 and voting for Obama, but it is true it seems, generally, that the older one is the more reluctant they are to voting for Obama, until the issues are thoroughly explained to them. I know they shouldn't have to be given the headlines lately But a 90 year old friend of the family, now says she will support Obama, after we talked about the issues thoroughly. Before she was somewhat hesitant. This is a generational thing. The younger crowd as Bryan mentioned are far more open minded than the older generation.
TheOtherFSU
Sep 17 2008, 07:58 PM
All this talk of polls. Sheesh. Here's a new one that just came out tonight: CBS News/NY Times poll has it at Obama by 5% among both registered and likely voters. Obama leads 49 to 44. Seems like most every poll has swung about 7 or 8% in Obama's favor since Palin's ABC interview last week. I can't believe the election is only 6 weeks from this coming Tuesday.
Munson Man
Sep 17 2008, 09:29 PM
QUOTE(hockeyTom @ Sep 17 2008, 05:59 PM)

True, and the same can be said of Faux News as well.
Absolutely!! They're both laughable as news organizations. I highly recommend the Jim Lehrer News Hour on PBS, and BBC World News America for the non-US view of the US. Better yet, read. I start my morning with the NY Times and Wall Street Journal, plus, most mornings, either the International Herald Tribune or Financial Times. Any combination of those does great justice to the news, much more so than MSNBC or Fox.
SFJohn
Sep 18 2008, 12:36 PM
Speaking of Fox News, Rasmussen Reports in polling conducted for Fox shows McCain not leading for the first time in 10 days. When Fox News doesn't show McCain in front, then you know he's way behind. Fox/Rasmussen is the official 'outlier' now in national polling and the only one that wasn't showing Obama ahead in polls released this week.
FWIW, I'll post these polls and shut up since no one wants to hear about polls. Obama doubled his lead from yesterday in Gallup -- up now by 4% (48-44). Survey 2000 has Obama up by 6% (49-43) in its 3-day polling average, but said its single-day polling yesterday shows Obama leading by 8% (50-42). Gallup found the lowest level of consumer confidence ever recorded in its polling history. A staggering number: only 7 percent of the country has a 'positive' view of the economy today.
The first debate is a week from tomorrow. I'm guessing both sides wanted to limit any potential damage by scheduling it on a Friday.
And speaking of Jim Lehrer, I find him boring. Factual and smart but boring. I like both Fox and MSNBC because then you really know what each side is trying to spin.
Bill W
Sep 18 2008, 01:43 PM
Lehrer is stodgy and full of conventional wisdom [sic]. He couldn't come up with an original thought or incisive angle if he tried.
sportinlife
Sep 18 2008, 08:55 PM
John McCain seems to be having serious woman problems;
Corporate supporter
Carly Fiorina doesn't think that he or any of the other candidates for president or VP is capable of doing her job. Some would say she hasn't done so well herself unless you think that firing employees is the only way to turn a profit. She should be president. What's good for Hewlett-Packard should be great for the country.
Then there's
Lady Lynn Rothschild talking up the "redneck" vote for him, since she was so successful in getting it for Hillary Clinton. Obama is an "elitist" she says - in a lady-like way of course: pearls dripping from her mouth.
Then of course there is the prospective VP herself
Sarah Palin, fending off prosecution by just not talking about troopers. Oh and hubby ain't talking either. Just so we know their not discriminating against us guys.
Last but not least there is
Cindy Dearest. Couldn't run a campaign without the trollop. I refuse to repeat the c-word rumor - whoops! So how does he recuse himself from issues involving beer, especially when he'll need the r-neck vote for re-election to his second term.
Roberta talk to that boy.
SeaCraig
Sep 18 2008, 10:14 PM
With an obvious total lack of understanding of how the economy, and its individual parts, work how could anyone believe the McSame is qualified for President? Do we want another President like the one we have...."I'm staying in DC to meet with my economic advisors" What in the hell has he been doing since, and I'll be generous here, we bailed out Freddy and Fannie?
But with McCain we'll get a commission and he'll fire someone he doesn't have the power to fire. If he's elected we're doomed.
sportinlife
Sep 19 2008, 04:14 PM
She's made it official;
it's now Palin-McCain. Now if she can just get rid of the old guy. Maybe Cheney's idea of a little hunting accident...
hockeyTom
Sep 19 2008, 04:48 PM
She is the only reason McBush draws big crowds, and everybody knows it. I don't think this is the last we hear of Ms. Palin should they be defeated, and of course I hope they do. I get the feeling she may think about biggers things in 2012.
SFJohn
Sep 20 2008, 09:21 AM
Gallup daily tracking... Obama up by 5% (49-44)
Research 2000 daily tracking... Obama up by 8% (50-42)
Fox/Rasmussen daily tracking... Obama up by 1% (48-47)
State polls news: Fox/Rasmussen today moves heavily-Republican Indiana back to a toss-up as Obama has closed the lead there to 2%. Indiana has only voted Dem one time since 1936, and Bush won the state 60-39% in 2004. New state polls yesterday give Obama a 9% lead in Michigan (52-43), a 2% lead for Obama in Ohio (47-45), and a 5% lead in PA (49-44).
mdterp01
Sep 20 2008, 09:29 AM
Yeah....and next week or the week thereafter we will probably see "McCain closing in once again on Obama" or "Obama losing ground" once this financial stuff settles and we start talking about lipstick and pigs again. People are so fickle in this country. Its like everyone has ADHD and needs some new ridiculous story to keep them interested each night because god forbid we actually stick to talking about main issues from now til election day without the "did he mean that Sarah Palin was a pig" or this new story out about Sarah Palin's preacher conducting a witch hunt.....NO REALLY...literally a witch hunt. These polls are ridiculous...fluctuating all over the place.
I was watching something last night though and the host was wondering if this recent shift toward Obama was one that was going to stick because of the financial crisis and Sarah Palin's bubble bursting. We'll see, but I'm not betting on it. I bet its close right up until November 4.
mdterp01
Sep 20 2008, 09:48 AM
QUOTE(Munson Man @ Sep 17 2008, 11:01 AM)

Actually, I said this months ago. Of COURSE it's racism, but it's impossible to prove racism when it's not overt, so the media can't report it - although having no proof generally doesn't stop "journalists" like Keith Olbermann (who I see NBC has demoted from its election coverage thanks to the complaints of real journalists at the network).
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: if the polling the night before the election shows Obama ahead by about 51-49 or even 52-48, I think he loses the popular vote by a percentage point or two. We all have an element of racism with us, but there are still too many people who like to convince themselves they are "progressive" but who harbor deep unease at the thought of voting for a black man, and I think when the time comes and they are alone in the voting booth and nobody can see what they are doing they will vote McCain. I think that's one reason Obama is always so annoyingly measured in his responses: he knows better than anybody that Joe Sixpack finds nothing as menacing as an angry black man.
Sorry to be so blunt. I hope nobody fainted.
Racial Views Steer Some White Democrats Away From ObamaPretty much backing up what we have been talking about. Its sad but hey...this country is still relatively new when you think about it. How many freaking hundreds of years have the Israelis and Palestinians been fighting? I think that with each passing generation, it gets better. I mean we just had the 50th anniversary of the Civil Rights Movement. So, things will take time. But, the more we mingle through integration and realize that what you see on tv and in shows isn't an entire representation of anyone then it will continue to improve.
hockeyTom
Sep 20 2008, 10:12 AM
Yes, that just backs up a headline I just saw on Yahoo. But, I am still scratching my head somewhat because just a few months back, didn't something like 70% or more of the public say they thought the country was ready for a minority to be President??? What happened?? Someone said, not sure who, a pundit that Obamas' race would hurt him, AND help him......
Munson Man
Sep 20 2008, 10:50 AM
[quote name='hockeyTom' date='Sep 20 2008, 11:12 AM' post='367701']
Yes, that just backs up a headline I just saw on Yahoo. But, I am still scratching my head somewhat because just a few months back, didn't something like 70% or more of the public say they thought the country was ready for a minority to be President??? What happened?? Someone said, not sure who, a pundit that Obamas' race would hurt him, AND help him......
[/quote
As the article points out, it depends on how the survey is conducted. If a person is asking the questions, people are too embarrased to admit to their own prejudice. However, when a survey is done without human intervention, online or by writing in results, people are more open and admit to their true feelings. According to the methodology used in this poll, if Obama were white his lead in the polls would be ~ 6% wider.
kick
Sep 20 2008, 01:36 PM
The ridiculous thing now is that McCain is now blaming OBAMA for sending jobs overseas and the bad economy in Michigan.
BULLSHIT!!!
sportinlife
Sep 20 2008, 04:31 PM
As I've mentioned before I think there are many voters who will not vote for Obama for reasons that they are not proud of. Though one poster immediately assumed that I was refering to racism, and to that poster, the first is only partially right and the second only that poster could determine. I think far more will be fair.
However I do believe there are many things that could motivate an anti-Obama vote yet not be something the voter would admit even in an anonymous poll. As examples, and this is by no means exhaustive:
- they don't like someone he has been associated with, even though it may be an unfair or false association (i.e. Reverend Wright, Michelle Obama, financier Robert Vezco and most recently former Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines, etc.)
- they do not wish to suggest that they put the welfare of a state other than the US before that of their own country (i.e. Israel or one of its perceived middle eastern enemies, an Eastern European country, China, India, etc.), either because it is a country of origin or of majority ethnic and ideological similarity.
- they share Obama's ethnic origing and have self-doubts about their own competence, therefore assuming Obama's as well
People do not like to admit that they've made unfair assumptions or associations or that they think illogically.
SFJohn
Sep 24 2008, 08:56 AM
With the election 5 weeks from Tuesday, the first debate only 48 hours away and people already voting in early voting in several states (and more states set to begin early voting next week), the new ABC News/Washington Post poll out today shows Obama up by 10% nationally (52-42) among registered voters and 9% (52-43) among likely voters. The ABC News poll has a lot of good news for Obama, but none moreso than the fact close to 2/3 of all voters now view the economy as the #1 issue, and when asked who understands the nation's economic problems better, Obama is up big (57-33%).
Fox/Rasmussen today has Obama up by 2%, which may not seem like a lot until you consider it's a poll conducted for Fox News, and that Obama has not had a lead that size in their polling since immediately after the Dem convention.
New state polling out yesterday shows Obama up by 2% in Florida, Obama by 4% in Michigan, an exact tie in Ohio, Obama by 2% in Virginia, and two new polls in Colorado where Obama is up by 4% and 7%.
Things are trending Obama at a pivotal time.
mdterp01
Sep 27 2008, 11:44 AM
I'm sorry but why the f**k is no one in here talking about that disastrous interview that Sarah Palin did with Katie Couric in which she fumbled over her speech, repeated the same thing over again as if it was the only line she remembered cramming for a test the night before. And finally....the icing on the cake...that explanation about Russia's proximity to Alaska giving her foreign policy experience. DIS-AS-TER!!! YOU HEAR ME?!!! IT WAS A MESS!! Even conservatives are turning against her and some are suggesting she should step aside.
PennState4Ever
Sep 27 2008, 11:58 AM
QUOTE(mdterp01 @ Sep 27 2008, 04:44 PM)

I'm sorry but why the f**k is no one in here talking about that disastrous interview that Sarah Palin did with Katie Couric ...
Because they're all too busy worrying about whether they should date Log Cabin Republicans.
canmark
Sep 27 2008, 12:03 PM
I felt bad for Palin in that Katie Couric interview. She's in so over her head. Like a child thrown in the deep end of the pool. Somebody save her.
YouTube of Sarah Palin telling Katie Couric
about her foreign policy experience thanks to Alaska's proximity to Russia and Canada.
What I don't get is, sure, a remote part of Alaska is close to a remote part of Russia. So what! Anchorage is 4,365 miles(!) from Moscow. Anchorage is actually closer to Mexico City (3,409), Tokyo (3,462) and Beijing (4,024), but that doesn't make her an expert on tacos, sushi or kung pao chicken!
Edit: correction... Juneau is the capital of Alaska. Wasila, though, is close to Anchorage. Juneau to Moscow is 4,550 miles. Boston to Moscow is 4,490 miles. But between Boston and Moscow is Europe. Between Alaska and Moscow is... Siberia.
HornFan
Sep 27 2008, 12:22 PM
It's just incredible what a bad pick Palin has been as the VP running mate for McCain. She's SO bad, they won't even allow her to comment or be interviewed after the first Presidential debate. McCain's judgement in ALLOWING this to happen should eventually be his downfall. If not, we're f**ked as a country. Of course we've elected W twice, so we are capable of another FUBAR on election day. Scary.
I think this
CONSERVATIVE WOMAN has pretty much nailed it regarding Palin as the VP running mate.
QUOTE
Kathleen Parker: How to solve this Palin problem?
Friday, September 26, 2008
If at one time women were considered heretical for swimming upstream against feminist orthodoxy, they now face condemnation for swimming downstream – away from Sarah Palin.
To express reservations about her qualifications to be vice president – and possibly president – is to risk being labeled anti-woman.
Or, as I am guilty of charging her early critics, supporting only a certain kind of woman.
Some of the passionately feminist critics of Ms. Palin who attacked her personally deserved some of the backlash they received. But circumstances have changed since Ms. Palin was introduced as just a hockey mom with lipstick – what a difference a financial crisis makes – and a more complicated picture has emerged.
As we've seen and heard more from John McCain's running mate, it is increasingly clear that she is a problem. Quick study or not, she doesn't know enough about economics and foreign policy to make Americans comfortable with a President Palin should conditions warrant her promotion.
Yes, she recently met several heads of state as the U.N. General Assembly convened in New York. She was gracious, charming and disarming. Men swooned. Pakistan's president wanted to hug her. (Perhaps Osama bin Laden is dying to meet her?)
And, yes, she has common sense, something we value. And she's had executive experience as a mayor and a governor, though of relatively small constituencies (about 6,000 and 680,000, respectively).
Finally, Ms. Palin's narrative is fun, inspiring and all-American in that frontier way we seem to admire. When Ms. Palin first emerged as Mr. McCain's running mate, I confess I was delighted. She was the antithesis and nemesis of the hirsute, Birkenstock-wearing sisterhood – a refreshing feminist of a different order who personified the modern successful working mother.
Ms. Palin didn't make a mess cracking the glass ceiling. She simply glided through it.
It was fun while it lasted.
Ms. Palin's recent interviews with Charles Gibson, Sean Hannity and now Katie Couric have all revealed an attractive, earnest, confident candidate. Who Is Clearly Out Of Her League.
No one hates saying that more than I do. Like so many women, I've been pulling for Ms. Palin, wishing her the best, hoping she will perform brilliantly. I've also noticed that I watch her interviews with the held breath of an anxious parent, my finger poised over the mute button in case it gets too painful. Unfortunately, it often does. My cringe reflex is exhausted.
Ms. Palin filibusters. She repeats words, filling space with deadwood. Cut the verbiage, and there's not much content there. Here's but one example from her interview with Mr. Hannity:
"Well, there is a danger in allowing some obsessive partisanship to get into the issue that we're talking about today. And that's something that John McCain, too, his track record, proving that he can work both sides of the aisle, he can surpass the partisanship that must be surpassed to deal with an issue like this."
When Ms. Couric pointed to polls showing that the financial crisis had boosted Barack Obama's numbers, Ms. Palin blustered wordily: "I'm not looking at poll numbers. What I think Americans at the end of the day are going to be able to go back and look at track records and see who's more apt to be talking about solutions and wishing for and hoping for solutions for some opportunity to change, and who's actually done it?"
If BS were currency, Ms. Palin could bail out Wall Street herself.
If Ms. Palin were a man, we'd all be guffawing, just as we do every time Joe Biden tickles the back of his throat with his toes. But because she's a woman – and the first on a Republican presidential ticket – we are reluctant to say what is painfully true.
What to do?
Mr. McCain can't repudiate his choice for running mate. He not only risks the wrath of the GOP's unforgiving base, but he invites others to second-guess his executive decision-making ability. Mr. Obama faces the same problem with Mr. Biden.
Only Ms. Palin can save Mr. McCain, her party and the country she loves. She can bow out for personal reasons, perhaps because she wants to spend more time with her newborn. No one would criticize a mother who puts her family first.
Do it for your country.
Kathleen Parker is a syndicated columnist. Her e-mail address is kparker@kparker.com.
Palin is a Mess of a Pick by McCain
mdterp01
Sep 27 2008, 12:33 PM
QUOTE(PennState4Ever @ Sep 27 2008, 12:58 PM)

Because they're all too busy worrying about whether they should date Log Cabin Republicans.
LOL...thats actually pretty funny.
canmark
Sep 28 2008, 08:38 AM
SNL's
version of the Katie Couric - Sarah Palin interview.
Puschkin
Sep 28 2008, 10:57 AM
QUOTE(PennState4Ever @ Sep 27 2008, 04:58 PM)

Because they're all too busy worrying about whether they should date Log Cabin Republicans.
mdterp01
Sep 28 2008, 01:58 PM
QUOTE(canmark @ Sep 28 2008, 09:38 AM)

SNL's
version of the Katie Couric - Sarah Palin interview.
Oh my god....it was HILARIOUS!!!! When she said to Katie "can I use a life line" I HOLLARED!!! Ooo they made her look like a real idiot!! But ya know what, going into the vice presidential debates, the standard is set so low for her that even doing what would be considered mediocre by normal standards might get her high praise. So even if she does ok I would expect people to say oh yes she held her own and blah blah blah because the expectations are so low. You know how each side spins this foolishness.
sportinlife
Sep 28 2008, 04:24 PM
The greatest danger for Obama-Biden in the VP debates is that Joe Biden will establish a separate foreign policy from that supported by Obama - either explicitly or by implication - suggesting that the two are somehow out of sync even before being elected.
But back to Princess Palin here is another
example of how important her language problem could become should she become VP or, heaven-forbid, president.
Puddy
Sep 28 2008, 11:03 PM
QUOTE
SNL's version of the Katie Couric - Sarah Palin interview.
Did you notice that an entire section of that sketch was taken almost verbatim from the Couric interview? This woman is a walking self-parody, and McCain should be utterly ashamed of himself for using this woefully unprepared and unqualified person to run with him. Country first, my @ss! If I weren't completely petrified of a McCain-Palin presidency, I'd feel sorry for her. I can't imagine that her political career isn't going to be irreparably damaged by this debacle.
Darius
Sep 30 2008, 06:19 AM
I too am starting to feel sorry for Palin and for her family. I mean how long can you put up with people calling you stupid and out of your league and making fun of you like this? Wouldn't this at some point begin to wear you out? I mean insult after insult every time you pick up a newspaper or read a blog. At some point wouldn't you want to just crawl into a hole and hide from the world? Public opinion often times can be divided but when you have conservatives calling for her to step aside, that's insulting. At what point will she be embarassed enough to bow out or maybe get a clue herself that she will go down in history as the biggest political laughing stock that ever existed? Has she no pride? Is she a narcisssist? Does she care about what effect this will have on her family? I also think this snafu certainly points to the poor decision making of McCain. He should have stood up to his party and made his own choice. Where's that maverick factor now?
I know I am asking a lot of questions here but I am really scratching my head over this one.
I know "You'll get back to me on this one".
hockeyTom
Sep 30 2008, 08:14 AM
I know it may be difficult, but Biden basically has to just showup on Thursday night, and let Palin to all/most of the talking.....
wvderby
Sep 30 2008, 09:29 AM
QUOTE(hockeyTom @ Sep 30 2008, 01:14 PM)

I know it may be difficult, but Biden basically has to just showup on Thursday night, and let Palin to all/most of the talking.....

I almost feel sorry for Palin. I said almost. Remember this is the woman that mocked Obama for being a community organizer and actually had the audacity to compare her 5 colleges in 6 years intellectual background to Obama's Columbia undergraduate and Harvard ( President of the Law review) Law school as being similar at the GOP convention.
She is getting exactly what I hoped for- eaten up on the national scene. It's one thing if she burst onto the national scene championing a set of values and telling use what she is for instead of attacking one of the most brilliant politicians in our generation in an attempt to destroy him. Obama is all about championing his platform. Palin was brought onboard to attack him.
I am happy she and her story has become a joke. The liberal media is not to blame. She is to blame. You reap what you sow.
SFJohn
Sep 30 2008, 10:48 AM
How alarming is it that Palin, when asked this weekend about the Supreme Court, could not name a single Supreme Court decision other than Roe vs. Wade? I think she will fare OK in the debate Thursday if only because the expectations are lower for her than any debate in history.
The polls have worsened even more for McCain and there was even an analyst on Fox today who said the race is basically over. Obama leads by 10 percent in the Research 2000 poll today (his largest lead ever in their tracking) at 51 - 41. Obama leads by 6 percent in Fox/Rasmussen today (his largest lead ever in their tracking) at 51 - 45.
State polls done by Fox/Rasmussen out yesterday: Obama is up 8 in Pennsylvania, and Obama now leads in Florida, Virginia and North Carolina, in addition to Colorado. Obama is polling over 50% in Virginia for the first time, and has pulled within 1 point in Ohio.
The state and national polls are bad enough, but Fox/Rasmussen also reports that for the first time since they began tracking the race in March, Obama now leads McCain on all 10 issues they routinely poll about (truthfulness, preparedness, the economy, Iraq, etc). Also Fox/Rasmussen says Obama now leads among independent voters in every battleground state they've polled.
Interesting to note that Rasmussen on Sept. 30, 2004, showed Bush leading Kerry by 1 percent at 49 - 48, and that's almost exactly where the race ended.
McCain has started airing real nasty national ads as of yesterday. I saw 3 commercials (all new, each one dirtier than the next). This is obviously his final push and he knows the only way he can win is by going extremely negative.
hockeyTom
Sep 30 2008, 11:48 AM
I agree with you SF John. For McBush its full steam ahead with the negativity. There is no looking back, or looking at Obama for that matter.
mdterp01
Sep 30 2008, 04:19 PM
QUOTE(SFJohn @ Sep 30 2008, 11:48 AM)

How alarming is it that Palin, when asked this weekend about the Supreme Court, could not name a single Supreme Court decision other than Roe vs. Wade? I think she will fare OK in the debate Thursday if only because the expectations are lower for her than any debate in history.
The polls have worsened even more for McCain and there was even an analyst on Fox today who said the race is basically over. Obama leads by 10 percent in the Research 2000 poll today (his largest lead ever in their tracking) at 51 - 41. Obama leads by 6 percent in Fox/Rasmussen today (his largest lead ever in their tracking) at 51 - 45.
State polls done by Fox/Rasmussen out yesterday: Obama is up 8 in Pennsylvania, and Obama now leads in Florida, Virginia and North Carolina, in addition to Colorado. Obama is polling over 50% in Virginia for the first time, and has pulled within 1 point in Ohio.
The state and national polls are bad enough, but Fox/Rasmussen also reports that for the first time since they began tracking the race in March, Obama now leads McCain on all 10 issues they routinely poll about (truthfulness, preparedness, the economy, Iraq, etc). Also Fox/Rasmussen says Obama now leads among independent voters in every battleground state they've polled.
Interesting to note that Rasmussen on Sept. 30, 2004, showed Bush leading Kerry by 1 percent at 49 - 48, and that's almost exactly where the race ended.
McCain has started airing real nasty national ads as of yesterday. I saw 3 commercials (all new, each one dirtier than the next). This is obviously his final push and he knows the only way he can win is by going extremely negative.
Well that certainly sounds good but with still over 30 days left, I expect another twist and turn.
aquaman
Sep 30 2008, 08:04 PM
QUOTE(SFJohn @ Sep 30 2008, 11:48 AM)

How alarming is it that Palin, when asked this weekend about the Supreme Court, could not name a single Supreme Court decision other than Roe vs. Wade? I think she will fare OK in the debate Thursday if only because the expectations are lower for her than any debate in history.
Be prepared for all the buzz after the debate to be how Palin won. All she has to do is show up and string sentences together and she'll "win". The only way she can lose is if she utterly fails, catastrophically fails (gaffes, blank stares, etc.). That will not happen.
WChip
Sep 30 2008, 09:07 PM
I would be very surprised if she didn't do enough to boost the perception of the McCain /Palin ticket (but I am deeply hoping that she will expose herself as one of the most unqualified candidates ever for the Vice Presidency/Presidency). The perception will be that she's a common sense, straight shooter, much like the average voter, whether this is true or not.
Puddy
Sep 30 2008, 10:42 PM
I think we might be underestimating Gov. Palin. Apparently she is incredibly well informed. Here's an excerpt from her continuing Couric-Palin saga:
QUOTE
Couric: And when it comes to establishing your worldview, I was curious, what newspapers and magazines did you regularly read before you were tapped for this to stay informed and to understand the world?
Palin: I've read most of them, again with a great appreciation for the press, for the media.
Couric: What, specifically?
Palin: Um, all of them, any of them that have been in front of me all these years.
Couric: Can you name a few?
Palin: I have a vast variety of sources where we get our news, too. Alaska isn't a foreign country, where it's kind of suggested, "Wow, how could you keep in touch with what the rest of Washington, D.C., may be thinking when you live up there in Alaska?" Believe me, Alaska is like a microcosm of America.
She reads so damn much that she can't even name a one! You know I've got to hand it to Katie Couric, she sure knows how to turn the screws. I wonder if she is getting any satisfaction from exposing this fool. Here's hoping Gwen Ifill doesn't let up on her.
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