This was posted on the Time magazine blog.

FJM, funny you should ask about when a homosexual will be elected President. In the latest edition of The Advocate, with Obama on the cover they did a story on this. Best guesstimate? About 30 years, give or take....and yeah I can hear Limbaugh calling Palin a babe, while they ( Republicans) refer to Hillary as "the Bitch."

The Palin pick will go over well with some women. Just listen to McCain's daughter, 23, gushing in a People interview. Like it or not, there are plenty of women (and men, too) who are as dippy as this. For them, this is a big accomplishment for women, for working women, for mothers, etc. I don't think one should underestimate the appeal Palin to many people.

The GOP ticket has been referred to elsewhere as "Gramps and Debbie from Accounting." I like it. Go forth and spread the word.

I like that "Gramps and Debbie from Accounting line." Bill Maher was hilarious last night talking about Palin and McCain as a sitcom: "The Maverick and The Milf". I'm paraphrasing, but he said something along the lines of: "John McCain has been telling us for the last 18 months that we live in a dangerous and scary world. We're at war. It's dangerous out there. Terrorists are everywhere and they want to kill us. Democrats don't understand that. I, John McCain, am the only one standing between the blood-thirsty Al Quaeda and you. Oh, and if I die, hopefully this stewardess can handle it."

And then this line from Maher: "When she got a phone call at 3 a.m., it meant that a moose had wandered into town and was turning over trash cans."

On a different note, I was getting my hair cut this morning at my usual salon. My stylist has said in the past that he's not really into politics but he "liked Hillary," and the salon owner in the booth next to him has talked glowingly of McCain on previous visits. Her son got back from Iraq about 6 months ago and she'd always said she was an "independent Republican" voting for McCain because as she said a few months back, she "didn't like either Hillary or Barack." But... today... the salon was abuzz about both Obama's speech and McCain's VP pick. I was shocked to hear that both my friend who cuts my hair and the salon-owning Iraq vet mom were now voting for Obama. And I was amazed that both knew all the details about Palin already, calling her a "right-wing nut job." The salon-owner lady particularly made me smile. She goes, "A mother of 5 in her early 40s with no experience? Hell that could just as easily be me for Vice President. I don't think so, John McCain!" And then all 8 or 10 people in the salon erupted in laughter and applause. Ah, another Saturday morning with the gals! But seriously, she is the type of woman the McCain camp was appealing to... an Independent, 40ish woman with a son who just returned from Iraq. If those people can see through McCain, he's never going to win. BTW, I also live in one of Calfornia's most conservative districts and counties where our congressperson is a Republican.

But for the Right, Palin's got what they want: Babies, guns, Jesus reads the headline on Rush Limbaugh's website. Hot dam! This is a woman with accomplishments.

Apparently, she's the "new face of feminism"



And the money keeps rolling in ($7 million since the announcement)

From USA Today: "There is wide uncertainty about whether Palin is qualified to be president. In the Gallup/USA Today poll, taken Friday, fewer than 4 in 10 voters say they believe she is qualified. Of all respondents, 39% say she is ready to serve as president if needed, 33% say she isn't qualified, and 29% have no opinion. That's the lowest vote of confidence in a running mate since the elder George Bush chose then-Indiana senator Dan Quayle to join his ticket in 1988. In comparison, Delaware Sen. Joe Biden was seen as qualified by 57%-18% after Democrat Barack Obama chose him as a running mate last week. Polling indicates the choice of Palin is no more or less likely to affect the race than the choice of Biden."

From the Anchorage Daily News: "While Palin's approval rating in the state is higher than many governors, it is not close to the 80 or 90 percent number that was being widely reported in the news media yesterday. Our most recent polling, completed in July, shows Palin with a 65% approval rating, down 16% from a poll taken in January before her ethics investigation began."

An editorial in today's Fairbanks Daily News-Miner: "Sen. McCain's selection of Gov. Palin as his vice presidential running mate was a stunning decision that should make Alaskans proud, even while we wonder about the actual merits of the choice.... Alaskans and Americans must ask, though, whether she should become vice president and, more importantly, be placed first in line to become president. In fact, as the governor herself acknowledged in her acceptance speech, she never set out to be involved in public affairs. She has never publicly demonstrated the kind of interest, much less expertise, in federal issues and foreign affairs that should mark a candidate for the second-highest office in the land. Republicans rightfully have criticized the Democratic nominee, Sen. Barack Obama, for his lack of experience, but Palin is a neophyte in comparison; how will Republicans reconcile the criticism of Obama with the obligatory cheering for Palin? Most people would acknowledge that, regardless of her charm and good intentions, Palin is not ready for the top job. McCain seems to have put his political interests ahead of the nation's when he created the possibility that she might fill it."

A quote from Alaska state senate president Lyda Green, a fellow Republican: "She's not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president? Look at what she's done to this state. What would she do to the nation?"

A quote from Alaska Speaker of the House John Harris, a fellow Republican: When asked if he feels Palin is qualified to be Vice President or President, "Well, she's old enough and she's a U.S. citizen."

Also, this: Surprise? First Two National Polls Find Palin Gains LESS Support from Women

I was watching CNN this morning, and they had a 21 yr old on named Adam Brickley. He started up a blog in support of Palin being chosen last year, Draft Sara Palin and although he's not a huge flaming candle, you can pretty much tell he is gay. Why the hell do people do this? Why do people support people who actively work to make them a second class citizen?

And to further that, why would McCain pick a Karen Walker lookalike?

People have a lot of different reasons for supporting candidates. As this site has shown, there are more than a few gay, lesbian, bi (and trans) people who would support candidates whose policies are anti-gay. So maybe the pro-Palin blogger finds her appealing despite her ultraconservative, and mostly anti-gay stands.

Palin was a desparate choice, but also a savvy one. McCain had only met her once or twice, and spoken to her a couple times at most, so I see Rove's or his deputy Steve Schmidt's hands all over this. The fact that she's a right-wing extremist says they felt they had to shore up the base, and her femaleness was a cynical ploy for the PUMAs, but her ideology is so far to the right it will probably only draw a small number of them, who were probably going to vote for McCain anyway.

The big issue will be how Obama and Biden campaign against the ticket and whether the media continue to carry McCain's water for him. There's all kinds of bad news about Palin steadily trickling out; in addition to the abuse-of-power investigation, she left the town of Wasilla in financial shambles; she was involved in another firing issue earlier; she does not have the confidence of either of the Alaska Republican legislative leaders (neither the Republican State Senate leader nor the Republican House leader has good words for her); and she seems genuinely clueless about what the VP does, about foreign policy, and really about what's been happening at the federal level for the last 8 years. McCain's own advisor Charlie Black said on the record that she'd be learning at the knee of the "master," McCain, over the next four years. Is that supposed to inspire confidence in anyone except the faith-based, reality-averse evangelical, neocon and far right-wing communities?

Finally, there are other rumors percolating about Palin and that 5th child. If her candidacy falls apart in any way, Rove will quickly step in to foist Romney or Huckabee, neither of whom is fond of McCain, on the ticket. It would be a brilliant move; the GOP could say that it had put a woman on the ticket (24 years after the Democrats did so, but nevertheless), it didn't work out, and now here's a more acceptable Republican on the ticket.

I assume you're talking about what was whispered about even in Republican circles. The timing of the birth of Palin's 5th child was odd in that it directly coincided with her 16-year-old daughter's 6-month absence from school due to "mononucleosis." When reporters remarked that Palin did not look pregnant even in her fifth and sixth month of pregnancy, Palin immediately said she had been ordered to 'bed rest' due to the nature of the pregnancy of this Down Syndrome baby. She continued governing from home where she and her 16-year-old daughter both were out of the public eye for months. Coincidence?

Not only is McCain desperate, but he picks a woman whose life story is straight out of "Desperate Housewives." Bree Van De Kamp, also a lifelong NRA member and conservative Republican, would be proud.

I hope I'm not jinxing it by saying this, but this is the first time I've been on the politics and religion thread in years and not felt like it was an attack-fest pitting poster against poster. That said, I think there have been a lot of comments worthy of talking head time on CNN or FOX or another network.

I am from a small, farm town in Ohio, as some of you know. One thing that I do have to say is that although she is a creationist and anti-abortion and anti-gay there two things working against her even amongst the "college boys" and the "NRA" voters - she is a woman and she is inexperienced.

In many of the evangelical denominations women still cannot become a part of the clergy. Wait a minute, include Catholicism in that too. Many of these religious women and men are not going to vote for her because she is a woman and it just goes against what they believe at a core level about leadership. It was easy to vote against Barack, but now it's become the lesser of two evils, "a black or a woman". I see male independents working in the same way supporting of Barack over Hillary.

In terms of experience, most of the people I grew up around, while racist, sexist, homophobic, and heavily invested in voting against their class interest, valued their own lives. And having Palin in the White House presents the question in a fundamental way, with China, Russia, India, Pakistan, and Iran on the horizon, can this woman handle being President? Pro-gun won't matter if in your mind you think we'll be nuked. They might not say this to a pollster, but they will definitely say it at Kroger or the gas station or the Moose Lodge. This pick is unsettling at a cellular level to me. Work will be done to change Palin's image obviously, but give us hicks some credit at least for now.

I suspect that if he was asked Powell turned him down.
I'll admit that all good politicians have to be good actors, but to compare Palin to Walker is an insult to Walker's acting abilities, by anyone's measure.

I actually see more family resemblance to Michael Palin:



Wonder if there is a family relationship. Dress him in drag, pluck his eyebrows, a nice set of false teeth and a hair makeover; and he could have done a great Monty Python skit as her.

But Michael Palin is no Dame Edna Everidge.

And Sarah Palin is no Hillary Clinton. Comparing the two is both false and insulting, to both of them really. And where are they finding all of these women who claim they will now vote for McCain because Palin's a VP?

I actually think she looks - and sounds - exactly like Tina Fey.

Sarah Palin's sportscasting days! This is so old, the NHL scoreboard included the North Stars, Whalers and Jets!

OMG, she is a hair hopper!!!! How 80's is that doo!!!!

She definitely looks like Tina Fey. They need to get her back on SNL. I'm sure they could do something really funny.

Obama camp should ignore this woman and concentrate on attacking McCain. McCain=Bush or worse.

See my posted pics on the 2nd page of this thread if there were any doubts of that...

I don't think she should be ignored at all. Concentrate on McCain, yes. But Sarah Palin's ideas demonstrate either a lack of scientific knowledge, or a denial of it that is sincerely dangerous. And the Republicans could easily find a way to get the two of them into office, by jiggering the electronic ballots again if necessary IMO.

But concerning her scientific knowledge:

- Intelligent Design is pseudo-science.

- Compelling all women to bear children regardless of the results of prenatal testing could forcefully impose unnecessary suffering on both the children and the parents, as well as the general population since there would be an increase in the birth of children with special needs. Few parents would be able to afford to care for them on their own and would depend upon economic assistance from elsewhere. Also the rate of the occurence of these children could increase over time should they live long enough to produce others who bore the same affliction. Not Sarah Palin or anyone else should have the power to impose this.

- her ideas are in fact a type of reverse eugenics that would make universal healthcare absolutely necessary, and at the same time cause it to fail. No system could survive long-term under the evolutionary stress of ignoring modern scientific realities. Palin's paradox.

This post from Daily Kos has written up a chronology about the alleged 5th child. It has some pretty persuasive evidence, including photos, that the story is true. I'll withhold final judgement, but goodness she's certainly fit for someone in their 7th month of pregnancy. Jeez, McCain's vetting process is certainly top-notch isn't it?

Her entire story about her water braking in Texas and then getting on a plane for an eight hour flight back to Alaska to deliver, doesn't really pass the smell test. Would any woman in her right mind do that? Wouldn't that flight be a bit uncomfy? Goodness, just crazy.

I think this doesn't pass the smell test either but on the other hand, who in their right mind would want their child born in Texas?

Quick! Please! What is the address of the Republican National Committee and the campaign offices of John Mc Cain? I have a few thank-you notes to send! This is the BEST thing to ever happen for the Obama camp...Mc Cain has caved! This thinly-veiled pick is downright silly! Pandering for the female vote but picking a right-wing nut job? Won't cut the mustard in November. If she really is a Christian mother, her first and foremost duty is to take care of her special-needs child. God gave her that child for a reason...He knows she is capable to care for a Downs Syndrone child. The needs of this child are great, and she needs to acknowledge her duty to that child. How in the world could she possible devote herself to that child AND be vice president, let alone president of the United States?

Good article here from USA Today, and this is one that will surely get a lot more play in the media....

Palin repeatedly backed Alaska's "Bridge to Nowhere" in 2006, but on Friday in her first appearance with McCain, she lied and said she never supported it.

The faked pregnancy rumor, apparently false.

Damn, that would've been fun to watch the fallout.

I can't for the life of me figure out why. To me, that is like a black peson supporting the KKK because they think the leader speaks well and makes good points on other issues. "Sure, they hate me because of the person I am, but what the heck"

Ms. Palin comes not without some controversy. I read a story in my newspaper this morning where its sounds like she sure was for that bridge that went to nowhere in Alaska, before she was against it. Democrats said that she only changed her position as she became the Republican Vice Presidential nominee. Whoops!

Wanna place money on this, FSU?

I'm one lifelong Democrat who will admit this pick was a home run for McCain. It has energized his base like no other pick has, and McCain's re-invigorated base is much more energized than Obama's is.

BTW, every Labor Day weekend since 1980 I have predicted the outcome of the presidential race. (It's kind of a family thing that has turned into this fun little game we have.) I have never been wrong in my predictions, either, believe it or not. It's one of the few things at which I have been successful.

Don't know if I'll make my quadrennial prediction on this board, though, because [a] if I predict Obama I can be wrong, and if I predict [b] McCain, some here will think I'm some secret Republican.

I'll say this much, FSU: if you think Obama's going to win in a landslide, you've got a big surprise coming.

Disclaimer: While I'm not going to vote for McCain, I am sad to say that over the last couple weeks, Obama has permanently lost my vote. There are a few reasons behind this, but I'm not going to elaborate in this thread.




That's an insulting and stupid statement, miller. As Cokie Roberts said yesterday morning, Democrats must be very careful about this. If we start saying she should stay home with the kid(s), we're going to understandably piss off women in general, and this only helps the McCain ticket. Women have been fighting this stereotype for years, and now you're feeding right into that. We're better than that.

Turns out that Palin's 17 year old daughter IS currently pregnant. But it's alright 'cause those kids are going to get hitched and everything is legit.

Uh oh, not so quick...today ABC News (NY TV local) is reporting not only that the daughter is 5 months pregnant and will marry her boyfriend (so much for abstinence education, etc.), but also that the rumors continue to swirl around Palin on the other issue.

Interestingly enough, she's also on record as saying that if her daughter were raped, she would chooose "life" (i.e., require her to carry the child to birth) over any other option.

A question: if she was showing like this Freeper pic shows, why 1) on earth didn't her staff realize she was pregnant (I can't think of a single person I've ever met who doesn't realize when a woman showing like that is pregnant); 2) her revelation that she was pregnant surprised them so; and 3) not even the flight attendants on the plane recognized she was pregnant, especially *after* her water had broken, in Texas, no less. Also, if her daughter had been taken out of school for months for viral mononucleosis until the late spring or so, they're saying she got pregnant around that same time? All a bit bizarre, but whatever.

The Democrats probably should leave this alone and let it play out in the media. What I hope they do as soon as they take office is push for comprehensive adolescent sex ed, including informing them about the wide array of contraceptive and STD-prevention options available.

Flip-FLOP!

Wow, so the teenage daughter is now having her 2nd child! There is much, much more that we are going to hear about the secret life of the Palin family. I guarantee it.

There is a female reporter from the Anchorage newspaper on the radio right now discussing it, along with what she said were the hush-hush stories from a year ago. They had a doctor from Johns Hopkins saying he believed there was zero chance of a pregnant woman having her water break and still being able to go to an airport in Texas after that, board a plane and make the long plane ride to Alaska and then deliver a baby the following day. And as fantomas said, flight attendants on that plane trip are now saying she wasn't pregnant, let alone on the verge of delivering a baby. It seems she used the "my water broke" story as a way to get out of a meeting or something in Texas and catch a quick plane back home.

There's really no stigma anymore about teen pregnancy since it's so common. However, there is a helluva stigma when you're an elected person running for Vice President on a "family values" platform and you've lied about having a child to cover it up. I never thought this pick for VP would blow up in the Republicans' faces so early and so hugely.

How long til Palin is pulled from the ticket? Any guesses? I'm sure the "I am withdrawing my candidacy as Vice President to spend more time with my family" press release has already been written and is just sitting there ready to use at any time.

What does it say about her judgment that she has a tiny baby (or grandchild, depending on whom you believe) with Down Syndrome, a teenage daughter who's unmarried and 5 months pregnant, 3 other children and yet she thinks now is the right time to run for Vice President along with the oldest man ever to run for President? God help us all if she were to become President a year from now.

Here is the photo from last Friday of daughter Bristol (who's now confirmed to be pregnant) holding the baby that was delivered last year. God this story gets more eerie by the moment. Gotta love those right-wing Republican family values.

Certainly problems increase in pregnancies for women over 40, but you certainly did not mean to suggest that Sarah Palin is somehow to blame that her child has Down Syndrome...did you?

There are a wide of public issues that one can raise in questioning the fitness of Gov. Palin to hold the second highest office in the land. They range from her touted "reformist" resume and image to her tenure in office as as an elected state-wide official. The latter is also a question that voters must contemplate, when weighing the qualifications of the other ticket.

What is not an issue is her daughter. The young woman is seventeen years of age, and she is not running for office. She should be left alone.

People may well respond that this is newsworthy, especially when candidate's for office use their children for political profit. Gov. Palin did that when talking about her eldest son's deployment to Iraq, and Sen. Biden did the same with his son. Unfortunately, this is part of American politics.

It's Schadenfreude at this young woman's expense, and it won't get us anywhere. Stick to the real issues.

Exactly. I find it quite hypocritical that many of us are so quick to defend John Edwards--"it's his private life, who cares?", "it's between him and his wife," etc.--yet we now are trying to rip on Governor Palin because her daughter got pregnant. It'll sicken me even more if the media tries to make this a big deal, yet they quickly seemed to sweep under the rug the Edwards affair.

Sorry, but this woman made family values the cornerstone of her entire being. It was considered her core theme and one of the main reasons that McCain supposedly picked her. It is an issue whether any of us like it or not. As for sticking to the "real issues," that argument was thrown out the window years ago by the Republicans. And if Palin's teen daughter is pregnant now, it's important to Palin's character to tell the truth to the American people about her previous pregnancy.

I love how right-wingers try to bring John Edwards into this. Randi Rhodes was just talking about how the Edwards comparison was put out as the Republican talking point today. John Edwards, however, isn't running for VP, and he was completely missing last week.

It's funny how McCain is now saying that he knew about the teen pregnancy all along. Yeah right. I'm wondering when Palin told him about it since he'd only talked to her once on the phone.

This is the real issue. I really don't care what these religious nuts (IMHO) do to themselves. They, however, want to tell the rest of us how to live our lives, which puts how they live their lives, i.e. how they raise their children, into play. One of the big hypocrisies of this group is to be anti-abortion and then not wanting to fund programs to help young mothers raise the children.

I'm one of the people in this country who is fed-up with the sanctimonious right wing trying to force the rest of us to live by their religious beliefs (sounds like Iran or Saudi Arabia doesn't it). And if you think the difference is we can have our views, look at the raids that happened over the past week in Minneapolis where riot police raided protesters houses without warrants. Once can only surmise that it was to quell dissent during the convention there.

There is a big difference between being for a woman's right to choose, but choosing to never have an abortion yourself, and being "pro-life" and taking that choice away all together. I would never have sex with a woman but if others want to, have at it....it doesn't effect me.

I disagree with Obama on some moral issues. The difference is that he doesn't want to outlaw my position. He leaves open the possibility of discourse so that perhaps education can happen....for either side.

Hell no! If anything, I question having a 5thchild when there are plenty babies out there that need to be adopted by good parents. Plenty of them are special needs as well. It seems selfish to have that many kids when there are plenty of children on the planet in need already. I do think it's time for some sort of birth control when you reach your mid 40's and have 4 kids in the stable. How about a vasectomy?

As far as her teenage daughter being off limits, the McCain/Palin ticket trumpeted their wholesome family from the get go. You can't tout only the good in this case and make everything else off limits. It doesn't work that way when you run for public office and they all knew that. I question her mother's decision to put her in the world spotlight by taking the VP slot on the ticket. Teenage pregnancy is hard enough without the entire globe chiming in on the issue.

First, I forgot to write 'range' between 'wide' and 'of' in my post above...my apologies. Better proofreading from now on.

Sen. Obama stated today that this is a non-issue, and he would not comment on it further. In addition, he said that if anyone connected to his campaign is responsible for the spread of internet rumors about Gov. Palin's or her daughter's pregnancies, he/she would be fired. Good for him.

Again, this is not an issue. Bristol Palin is not running for office. The media usually stays clear of reporting on presidential children, the children of presidential candidates and the children of elected officials, especially if they are underage. Of course, there have been exceptions, such as when the Bush twins were caught drinking underage. The mainstream media reported it, and then moved on. That example should be followed here.

"Sorry, but this woman made family values the cornerstone of her entire being..." And Gov. Palin would have been rightly questioned and called to task if her daughter had terminated the pregnancy.

As for right wingers bringing up John Edwards, well that's all part of the "yeah, well you have this..." mentality, which is a way to deflect from the real issues.

HockeyTom linked to one of those issues. Read that to see if Gov. Palin is fit for public office.



I didn't think that you did, HornFan.

By the way...did you notice that your posts now exceed your member number by one? Congratulations! That's a milestone!

I have a way to go!

It's always good to interject some levity in serious conversations, every now and again!

No, I was oblivious. (No low blows for using that word in the future please.)

At a press avail in Monroe, Mich. today, Barack Obama on Palin:



On charges that his campaign has stoked the story via liberal blogs:






Good for him!

Good for Obama! He is far classier than some of his backers.

As for Palin, I think every revelation about her, and the glee with which some are piling on, energizes the True Believers more and more. The left wing may be handing McCain his own "gay marriage" issue to bring out right wingers and evangelicals in droves. However, I agree that if there si one more revelation Palin may be gone from the ticket faster than you can say Tom Eagleton.

Poll news: Obama has now reached the crucial 50% mark, leading McCain 50-43% in the new USA Today/Gallup poll released this afternoon. This comes on the heels of reaching 49%, his highest mark, in the Gallup daily tracking poll released this morning. Obama is considered the "stronger and more decisive leader" by a 46-44% margin over McCain. McCain's "unfavorables" are the highest he's ever received in a USA Today/Gallup poll. McCain's "favorables" are +16; he's seen favorably by 54% and unfavorably by 38%. Obama, meanwhile, is viewed significantly more favorably by voters (+29). Obama is viewed favorably by 61%, and unfavorably by 32%. And Gallup included the important "enthusiasm gap" question that isn't being measured in most polls. Their poll was conducted entirely after the announcement of Palin as McCain's VP, and 57% of Democrats say they are more enthusiastic about voting than ever before, while only 28% of Republicans feel that way. Interesting numbers, especially on the "enthusiasm gap," because polls by their nature are small samples... and it doesn't seem like any are measuring the amount of excitement on the Dems' side and the huge turnout numbers that are sure to come for Obama.

If the GOP is going to keep pushing for spending tax dollars on "abstinence education" then I'm sorry, but the fact that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant is fair game. Clearly "abstinence education" doesn't work, and this kid is Exhibit A.

And you have to question the judgment of someone who, when her water breaks, gets on a plane and takes an eight-hour flight instead of going to the hospital.

Will they play this song after McCain's acceptance speech?

McCain's VP's daughter is " Juno" !!!

That is interesting and good news FSU. The bounce that was expected happen. I did hear however, that after McCain picked Palin, he supposedly collected something like $4 million over the past several days. Which for McCain is pretty good...

McCain's total haul for August was $47 million. He's hardly down for the count.

With all the problems coming out about Palin--and really, the bad news just keeps coming--

-the US Congress canceled the Bridge to Nowhere earmark in 2005, the year before she started her campaign making her Friday rollout statement that she "stood up to Congress" a total lie;
-she was nearly impeached as mayor of Wasilla for firing public officials who didn't support her campaign;
-she led a 527 in support of corrupt US Senator Ted Stevens;
-she belonged to the Alaskan Independence Party, a secessionist organization in the state, etc.

--she is still a member of a party that knows how to put its people into office, especially the highest ones. If she stays on the ticket, many of us may think she'll be liability, but watch how the "liberal" mainstream media twists things to make her and the "master" McCain look as good as possible. If you ever think they don't play a huge role, just visit The Daily Howler and Media Matters to see how it's not just Faux News that pushes the RNC line. Just remember the lead up to the Iraq War and how that was sold and spun if you're still in doubt.

As somebody mentioned previously, I think liberal democrats need to be careful about appearing to be 'piling on' in their criticisms (and jokes) of Palin (and daughter), as it creates sympathy for her among right wing conservatives. The fact that the unmarried pregnant teen is "keeping her baby" is what they are rallying behind, and that she has the support of a loving, Christian family. Would that these people were more sympathetic of other teen mothers, and would that they were supportive of sex education for all teens... but I guess that's too much to ask. I don't think it's appropriate to make fun of the daughter for her situation... but it *is* relevant to question Palin's support of abstinence education in place of sex education.

Hey CrewChief, you said:

That's an insulting and stupid statement, miller. As Cokie Roberts said yesterday morning, Democrats must be very careful about this. If we start saying she should stay home with the kid(s), we're going to understandably piss off women in general, and this only helps the McCain ticket. Women have been fighting this stereotype for years, and now you're feeding right into that. We're better than that.



That's exactly why I said it...it is the same tripe they (the right-wing nut jobs that have hijacked the Republican party) have been preaching for years....a woman needs to know her place. It's not insulting or stupid if you interpret the Bible in that fashion. She has a special-needs child. This child will most certainly require additional attention and care that her other four children did not require. I hope I did insult her. I find her and her entire party insulting and stupid. See, it is all in good company.

yeah, she's juno with a way hunkier boyfriend.

So, does anyone have any pics of the little slut's boyfriend? I hear his name is Levi...hmm, how biblical! Boy, this is getting richer by the minute. Some pick, McCain...and you expect to run a nation? HA! Oh, editied to ask this question: What is the age of consent in Alaska? I wonder if lover-boy will be charged with statutory rape? If not, is this woman doing her job as a law enforcer? As a mother? Wow, talk about Pandora's box flying wide open! (pardon the obvious pun).

Bristol Palin's baby daddy is 18 year old Levi Johnston, who plays hockey and is a "f---in' redneck" according to his myspace page.Supposedly he also says in his myspace page, "I don't want kids." How about marrying into the White House?

NY Post article.



As Juno says:
"I mean, I'm already pregnant, so what other kind of shenanigans could I get into?"