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simontexas
Well, the season hasn't started yet and there has already been a huge surprise retirement and a slap in the face for US fans. The defending World Champion Jeffrey Buttle announced his retirement last month. And then, sadly for US viewers, NBC programmers decide only to show the Skate America event. For the past couple of years I had been criticizing ABC/ESPN for decreasing its coverage of the Grand Prix Series. NBC has taken over prior to the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver and has seriously decreased the hours devoted to international figure skating. To complain about the lack of figure skating programming email: nbcsportshelp@nbcuni.com

The ISU Grand Prix wikipedia site is a good place to keep up with the series and results. The information I put below. I culled from that site or related links. It also has links for the other national and international competitions.

Here is the view information and entrants for Skate America.
Event - Date & Time NBC *all times Eastern
Skate America
SUN 10/26/08 4-6 PM
Here is the view information for the US Nationals
SAT 01/24/09 3-6 PM
SAT 01/24/09 9-11 PM
SUN 01/25/09 4-6 PM
SAT 01/31/09 2:30-4:30 PM

Skate America - Everett, Washington
Men - Entries
Kevin VAN DER PERREN BEL
Christopher MABEE CAN
Kevin REYNOLDS CAN
Shawn SAWYER CAN
Chengjiang LI CHN
Takahiko KOZUKA JPN
Andrei GRIAZEV RUS
Igor MACYPURA SVK
Adrian SCHULTHEISS SWE
Evan LYSACEK USA
Adam RIPPON USA
Johnny WEIR USA

Ladies - Entries
Mira Leung CAN
Liu Yan CHN
Susanna Poykio FIN
Annette Dytrt GER
Valentina Marchei ITA
Miki Ando JPN
Yukari Nakano JPN
Kim Yu-Na KOR
Tugba Karademir TUR
Rachael Flatt USA
Kimmie Meissner USA
Mirai Nagasu USA

Pairs
Megan Duhamel / Craig Buntin CAN
Zang Yue / Wang Lei CHN
Adeline Canac / Maximin Coia FRA
Aljona Savchenko / Robyn Szolkowy GER
Maria Mukhortova / Maxim Trankov RUS
Rena Inoue / John Baldwin USA
Keauna McLaughlin / Rockne Brubaker USA
Caitlin Yankawskas / John Coughlin USA

Ice Dancing
Kristin Fraser / Igor Lukanin AZE
Alli Hann-McCurdy / Michael Coreno CAN
Pernelle Carron / Mathieu Jost FRA
Isabelle Delobel / Olivier Schoenfelder FRA
Sinead Kerr / John Kerr GBR
Katherine Copely / Deividas Stagniunas LIT
Ekaterina Rubleva / Ivan Shefer RUS
Tanith Belbin / Benjamin Agosto USA
Emily Samuelson / Evan Bates USA
Jane Summersett / Todd Gilles USA

Also, here is a list of the tope male competitors and the Grand Prix Events they will be competing in:
Top Men Contenders & Grand Prix Events
Jeffrey BUTTLE (CAN)*
Patrick CHAN (CAN) - CAN & FRA
Kevin VAN DER PERREN (BEL) - USA & RUS
Tomas VERNER (CZE) - CHN & RUS
Brian JOUBERT (FRA) - FRA & RUS
Daisuke TAKAHASHI (JPN) - CHN & JPN
Stephane LAMBIEL (SUI) - CAN & FRA
Evan LYSACEK (USA) - USA & CAN
Johnny WEIR (USA) - USA & JPN

Rest of American Field & Events
Jeremy ABBOTT (USA) - CHN & RUS
Ryan BRADLEY (USA) - CAN & FRA
Stephen CARRIERE (USA) - CHN & JPN
Brandon MROZ (USA) - CAN & FRA
Adam RIPPON (USA) - USA & RUS

Rest of Canadian Field & Events
Vaughn CHIPEUR (CAN) - CHN & RUS
Christopher MABEE (CAN) - USA & JPN
Kevin REYNOLDS (CAN) - USA & JPN
Shawn SAWYER (CAN) - USA & CAN
Jeremy TEN (CAN) - CAN & CHN

* Buttle was initially assigned to the 2008 Skate Canada International and 2008 Cup of China for the 2008/2009 season. He announced his retirement from competitive skating on September 10, 2008, saying that his motivation to compete has ceased.
Tennis Guy
QUOTE(simontexas @ Oct 9 2008, 02:59 PM) *

* Buttle was initially assigned to the 2008 Skate Canada International and 2008 Cup of China for the 2008/2009 season. He announced his retirement from competitive skating on September 10, 2008, saying that his motivation to compete has ceased.



Translation: Buttle realized he can't do a quad, is getting to old to add it to his repertoire, and that he'd never be able to even remotely come close to living up to the hype brought on by one of the biggest strokes of sheer luck in sports history (aka, last year's fluke at Worlds...without a quad) and decided to spare himself the embarrassment.

Carolina Costner may want to take the money and run too, after her silver medal from last year.



Ok, sorry for all that grouchiness...but I feel last year was a step in the wrong direction for a sport that already has a very tarnished image when it comes to judging and scoring.
simontexas
Results ISU Grand Prix FS Final 2008/09
Men
1 Jeremy ABBOTT USA 237.72
2 Takahiko KOZUKA JPN 224.63
3 Johnny WEIR USA 215.50
4 Tomas VERNER CZE 206.65
5 Patrick CHAN CAN 205.16
WD Brian JOUBERT FRA 0.00

Ladies
1 Mao ASADA JPN 188.55
2 Yu-Na KIM KOR 186.35
3 Carolina KOSTNER ITA 168.01
4 Joannie ROCHETTE CAN 166.36
5 Yukari NAKANO JPN 161.93
6 Miki ANDO JPN 158.25

Pairs
1 Qing PANG / Jian TONG CHN 191.49
2 Dan ZHANG / Hao ZHANG CHN 188.22
3 Aliona SAVCHENKO / Robin SZOLKOWY GER 185.09
4 Tatiana VOLOSOZHAR / Stanislav MOROZOV UKR 175.83
5 Yuko KAWAGUCHI / Alexander SMIRNOV RUS 167.45
6 Maria MUKHORTOVA / Maxim TRANKOV RUS 153.16

Ice Dance
1 Isabelle DELOBEL / Olivier SCHOENFELDER FRA 156.10
2 Oksana DOMNINA / Maxim SHABALIN RUS 152.95
3 Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE USA 148.04
4 Federica FAIELLA / Massimo SCALI ITA 145.12
WD Tanith BELBIN / Benjamin AGOSTO USA 0.00
WD Jana KHOKHLOVA / Sergei NOVITSKI RUS 0.00
simontexas
Here are the final standings for the US national championships.

Rank Name Points
*World Team
(#A) Alternate

Men
1 Jeremy Abbott 241.89*
2 Brandon Mroz 229.70*
3 Evan Lysacek 229.10*
4 Ryan Bradley 221.40 (2A)
5 Johnny Weir 203.99 (1A)
9 Stephen Carriere (3A)
Ladies
1 Alissa Czisny 178.06*
2 Rachael Flatt 173.78*
3 Caroline Zhang 171.08 (1A)
4 Ashley Wagner 165.33 (2A)
5 Mirai Nagasu (3A)
Pairs
1 Keauna McLaughlin / Rockne Brubaker 178.76*
2 Caydee Denney / Jeremy Barrett 176.27*
3 Rena Inoue / John Baldwin 171.08 (1A)
4 Amanda Evora / Mark Ladwig 159.95 (2A)
5 Brooke Castile / Ben Okolski (3A)
Ice Dance
1 Meryl Davis / Charlie White 201.68*
2 Emily Samuelson / Evan Bates 181.64*
3 Kimberly Navarro / Brent Bommentre 176.30 (1A)
4 Madison Hubbell / Keiffer Hubbell 171.51 (2A)
6 Jane Summersett / Todd Gilles (3A)
7 Trina Pratt / Chris Obzansky (4A)
Tanith Belbin / Ben Agosto* (did not compete)
Enigma
QUOTE(Tennis Guy @ Nov 2 2008, 07:08 AM) *

Translation: Buttle realized he can't do a quad, is getting to old to add it to his repertoire, and that he'd never be able to even remotely come close to living up to the hype brought on by one of the biggest strokes of sheer luck in sports history (aka, last year's fluke at Worlds...without a quad) and decided to spare himself the embarrassment.

Carolina Costner may want to take the money and run too, after her silver medal from last year.
Ok, sorry for all that grouchiness...but I feel last year was a step in the wrong direction for a sport that already has a very tarnished image when it comes to judging and scoring.


Actually, thanks to the new judging system you don't need a Quad in order to win. As long as you have flawless triple axles and impressive foot work and a bit of creativity, you'll be fine. Look at Patrick Chan, he's picking up where Jeffrey Buttle left off.

I think the new judging system is working great.
Tennis Guy
QUOTE(Enigma @ Jan 30 2009, 01:47 AM) *

Actually, thanks to the new judging system you don't need a Quad in order to win. As long as you have flawless triple axles and impressive foot work and a bit of creativity, you'll be fine. Look at Patrick Chan, he's picking up where Jeffrey Buttle left off.

I think the new judging system is working great.


Disagree. A system that punishes "incomplete" quads and destroys you if you fall on one, is going to set the sport backwards if men who could do them are going to leave them out because of it. And if you think Costner deserved the silver last year at worlds and that there wasn't a problem with judging, well, I just don't know what to say.
canmark
Canada's Patrick Chan won the Four Continents Championship in Vancouver. American Evan Lysacek took silver and Japan's Takahiko Kozuka took the bronze.
IPB Image
Ken
Personally I don't think figure skating should be all about one jump, it should be the whole package. If a skater can't do all the in between stuff well then he really does need the quad if he wants to compete. The jumps are still worth more points and make up about 40% of the total score for a long program anyway. I don't think it would be good for the sport for it to be worth much more than that because then the focus would be all about the jumps and that's not really what the sport is about.

I'm not sure what you mean by an "incomplete" quad. If a quad only gets 3 3/4 revolutions then it is really just an over-rotated triple instead of a quad and rightly should be downgraded as such. The difference between a clean quad and a clean triple is 3.5 points. Therefore even if a skater completely wipes out on a quad (-3 points on the Grade of Execution and -1 for a fall), as long as they get the revoulution they'll still get scored almost as well as a triple toe with an average landing.

I don't think that it will set the sport backwards because most of the men can't afford to leave them out because they aren't all-around skaters. The new scoring system encourages them to improve their skating skills in all aspects so that they can maximize their scores in the different areas of their performance. Once there is more parity between the skaters in all-around skating skills they will all need quads to set themselves apart from each other. Personally I'd rather see a well-skated program with fluidity and grace between jumps, spins, footwork, etc. that has an emotional connection with the music than a skater who does three quads and little to nothing else in between. To each his own though. I guess that's why skating is still a subjective sport. smile.gif

QUOTE(Tennis Guy @ Jan 30 2009, 03:11 PM) *

Disagree. A system that punishes "incomplete" quads and destroys you if you fall on one, is going to set the sport backwards if men who could do them are going to leave them out because of it.

andrea
Euro Championships took place last month.
The Pairs competition went as expected with Savchencko/Szolkowy winning the gold (eve if they didn't lead after the short program). The 2 Russion couples got silver and bronze.
The Ice Dance had the withdrawls of Domina/Shabalin and the absence of the Delobel/Schoenfelder.
So a great opportunity for getting silver and bronze for couples who would have not had the opportunity with those 2 couples in the race. Khokhlova/Novitski were favourite for the gold at that point and got it. The race for the other 2 podium position was pretty close. Faiella/Scali won silver and Kerr/Kerr the bronze edging Pechelat/Bourzat.
Brian Joubert won the male competition as expected. Verner totally flopped the long program as in last year worlds (IIRC). Contesti got a surprising silver and Van Der Perren won bronze by 0.06 over Ponsero (who made a comeback with the long programme).
The ladies race was really disappointing. Koster threw away the gold with her short program. In the end Lephisto won with Poikyo third (a great day for Finnish girls in front of home crowd).

Some performances....

female long program

Lepisto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjNrIwJeH0U
Kostner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9idFZMkm74...feature=related
Poykio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLKrYRZP-OI...feature=related


male long program

Joubert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_VvyUzQ3Jk
Contesti
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlVxeT_sQEE
Van Der Perren
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTZqe7YGrFw

Ice Dancing free dance

Failla/Scali
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBg6YDnF1xk...feature=related
Kerr/Kerr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mEr03qQwo8...feature=related

Khokhlova-Novitski FD videos seem to have all been removed though
simontexas
Thanks for the links Andrea. As you may have read in my opening message, due to a change in the network contracts, American television is showing way less figure skating competitions as it has in the past 10+ years. Even if ABC/ESPN did show each competition delayed by a week, we still were able to see all of them. The NBC network did not even plan on showing the European Championships. I love to watch all the up and coming skaters that don't make it to Worlds.
dry.gif
Anyway, Ken - great explanation about the pointing system. I believe the new system is more lenient on the jumps. In the old way it was all or nothing. In this system you still get some points for completing the revolution even if you fall flat on your ass or crash into the boards.
cool.gif
World Championships live from Los Angeles during the last full week and weekend of March.
WoodysMarlins
How screwed up is this?
The week of the World Championships, the short programs will be shown.....ON THE OXYGEN CHANNEL!!!
Not sure how much of THAT will be shown on NBC. Nut the things that kills me is that NBC will continue to run those mind numbing exhibtion programs, like the Salute to the music of Wynnona, Frankie Valli, and Seal, which was kinda ok. Get rid of those and put the competitions on every week.
simontexas
Oxygen Channel (all times US Eastern)
Wed Mar 25th 4:30 pm - 6:30 pm World Championship
Wed Mar 25th 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm LIVE World Championship (Men's Short)
Thu Mar. 26th 12 am - 2 am LIVE World Championship (Pairs Long)
Thu Mar 26th 11 pm - 2 am LIVE World Championship (Men's Long)
Fri Mar 27th 4:30 pm - 6:30 pm World Championship
Fri Mar 27th 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm LIVE World Championship (Ladies Short)
Sat Mar 28th 12 am - 2 am LIVE World Championship (Free Dance)

NBC Network (all times US Eastern)
Sat Mar 28th 9 pm -11 pm LIVE World Championship (Ladies Long)

CBC Network Schedule (all times CAN Eastern)
cool.gif
Tennis Guy
QUOTE(Ken @ Feb 13 2009, 04:48 PM) *

Personally I don't think figure skating should be all about one jump, it should be the whole package. If a skater can't do all the in between stuff well then he really does need the quad if he wants to compete. The jumps are still worth more points and make up about 40% of the total score for a long program anyway. I don't think it would be good for the sport for it to be worth much more than that because then the focus would be all about the jumps and that's not really what the sport is about.

I'm not sure what you mean by an "incomplete" quad. If a quad only gets 3 3/4 revolutions then it is really just an over-rotated triple instead of a quad and rightly should be downgraded as such. The difference between a clean quad and a clean triple is 3.5 points. Therefore even if a skater completely wipes out on a quad (-3 points on the Grade of Execution and -1 for a fall), as long as they get the revoulution they'll still get scored almost as well as a triple toe with an average landing.

I don't think that it will set the sport backwards because most of the men can't afford to leave them out because they aren't all-around skaters. The new scoring system encourages them to improve their skating skills in all aspects so that they can maximize their scores in the different areas of their performance. Once there is more parity between the skaters in all-around skating skills they will all need quads to set themselves apart from each other. Personally I'd rather see a well-skated program with fluidity and grace between jumps, spins, footwork, etc. that has an emotional connection with the music than a skater who does three quads and little to nothing else in between. To each his own though. I guess that's why skating is still a subjective sport. smile.gif


Quite a few people don't like the new scoring system:

http://www.cleveland.com/skating/index.ssf...kating_res.html

While it's understandable that someone like Timothy Goebel, the "Quad King" would say something like:

"Women aren't going after the triple axel and men aren't going for quads. ... The only people who like the new system are people who can't do quads."

Johnny Weir, who isn't really a quad maven, and is known more for his artistry said:

"I'm longing for the day where you can see a beautiful program, where you can feel an emotion from it and not be adding up the points in your head."

I can't remember the exact numbers that the announcers mentioned, but they said the number of men attempting the quad went down significantly. Lysacek didn't try his in the long program, and I'm not sure if Chan ever even really owned one. I know Joubert, Verner and Kozuka did theirs. I agree that a clean skate should be paramount, with nice artistry and a fall being penalized fairly across the board, but it's hard to argue that this new system isn't holding back some advances in jumping difficulty, and that it is extremely confusing to fans and athletes alike. Even the announcers were quite baffled by the placements after the men's short program.


edit: here's a number of attempts, in this article:
Article, with an interesting title: "Quad - a four-letter word"

When Joubert attended his first worlds, in 2002, some 15 men were doing quads. In L.A., no more than five will try it. Joubert has a quad planned for his short program today – that's gutsy – and three in the long.
Ken
I agree that the new system isn't perfect, but it's still a relatively new system and far better than the archaic, two-marks that don't really mean anything, old judging system. I don't have much issue with the technical side of the marking system. You see the mistakes that the skater made on the scoresheet and there is very little debate about how the skater was scored on the technical side of things. My issue is more with the second part of the mark which is the presentation side. I don't really feel that it's being scored that well, and that was highlighted by the men's short program that you alluded to. I think this part of the mark is still a little too subjective IMO.

As for the new system I can see how you say that it's holding back advances in jumping difficulty, but that's because it's forced the skaters to work harder on the overall package, jumps, spins, footwork, etc. It's less risky to get the maximum difficulty points for these aspects of the program than it is to go for a high-risk element like a quad and lose 4-5 points right there. Skaters like Joubert and Tim Goebel don't really have much else to fall back on besides the quads, although Joubert did receive higher presentation marks than Chan in both the short and long program, which is why I think they need to take a harder look at how that particular aspect is judged. As for Johnny Weir's comment, all I can say is how else are you going to be in a skating competition and not have it scored by points. The day he is "longing for" will come when he turns pro and can skate in ice shows the rest of his life!

I really think that after a few years and once the skaters all become more well-rounded, you'll once again see them trying more quads in order to seperate themselves from their competitors.

QUOTE(Tennis Guy @ Mar 27 2009, 04:33 PM) *

Quite a few people don't like the new scoring system:

http://www.cleveland.com/skating/index.ssf...kating_res.html

While it's understandable that someone like Timothy Goebel, the "Quad King" would say something like:

"Women aren't going after the triple axel and men aren't going for quads. ... The only people who like the new system are people who can't do quads."

Johnny Weir, who isn't really a quad maven, and is known more for his artistry said:

"I'm longing for the day where you can see a beautiful program, where you can feel an emotion from it and not be adding up the points in your head."

I can't remember the exact numbers that the announcers mentioned, but they said the number of men attempting the quad went down significantly. Lysacek didn't try his in the long program, and I'm not sure if Chan ever even really owned one. I know Joubert, Verner and Kozuka did theirs. I agree that a clean skate should be paramount, with nice artistry and a fall being penalized fairly across the board, but it's hard to argue that this new system isn't holding back some advances in jumping difficulty, and that it is extremely confusing to fans and athletes alike. Even the announcers were quite baffled by the placements after the men's short program.
edit: here's a number of attempts, in this article:
Article, with an interesting title: "Quad - a four-letter word"

When Joubert attended his first worlds, in 2002, some 15 men were doing quads. In L.A., no more than five will try it. Joubert has a quad planned for his short program today – that's gutsy – and three in the long.

boomer400
Can anyone translate the commentators here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGmPLOwVCtQ&fmt=18
fanonscudder
I do not speak Korean, but you can't help from noticing the crowd going wild, and the instant replays of Johnny Weir vamping it up. It's nice to see him enjoying himself so - the Worlds were just not the same without him this year. The face make up, the Ricky Martin-esque dance moves, and those spins!
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