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LarryC
Apparently, Toronto and Miami are actually going to do the long-rumored trade of J. O'Neal (with Jamario Moon thrown in) for Marion.

Pretty ironic for the Heat -- they effectively traded S. O'Neal for J. O'Neal. The funny thing is that Shaq, though 6 years older, is still better and more durable. And if Jermaine had a hard enough time staying healthy in Toronto (and everywhere else he's been), I wonder how Riley thinks he'll hold up under the notoriously brutal Miami practices.
Travelpat
Well I'm fortunate enough to have tickets to the very first game post-trade for the Raptors this Wednesday when Lebron and the Cavs come to town. Not sure if this trade is a sign of the Raps waving the white flag on this season - or if they are figuring that with a healthier Calderon and a Marion, Bargnani, Bosh front court if the Raps are going to take a run at becoming an up tempo team a la Colangelo's Phoenix teams and hope to squeak in to the playoffs.

And maybe this is the eternal optimist in me - but as much as the team has disappointed this year they still are only 5 games out of a playoff spot and just look how easy their schedule gets down the stretch. They will play 10 of their last 16 games at home and only 4 of those 16 games are against teams that are currently in a playoff spot. I can't imagine there are many other teams out there with a schedule that easy down the stretch.

Wed, Feb 18 Cleveland
Fri, Feb 20 at New York
Sun, Feb 22 New York
Tue, Feb 24 Minnesota
Fri, Feb 27 at Phoenix
Sun, Mar 01 at Dallas
Tue, Mar 03 at Houston
Fri, Mar 06 Miami
Sun, Mar 08 Utah
Wed, Mar 11 at Philadelphia
Fri, Mar 13 Detroit
Sun, Mar 15 Indiana
Mon, Mar 16 at Charlotte
Fri, Mar 20 Charlotte
Sun, Mar 22 L.A. Clippers
Wed, Mar 25 Milwaukee
Fri, Mar 27 Oklahoma City
Sun, Mar 29 Chicago
Wed, Apr 01 at Orlando
Sat, Apr 04 at New York
Sun, Apr 05 New York
Tue, Apr 07 Atlanta
Wed, Apr 08 at Indiana
Fri, Apr 10 Washington
Sun, Apr 12 Philadelphia
Mon, Apr 13 at Washington
Wed Apr 15 at Chicago
.
canmark
I'm not sure why people keep saying that the Raptors are "only" 5 games out of the 8th spot in the East. Even if they made up those 5 games on the Bucks, there are still 5 other teams ahead of them. 5 teams that are saying we are only 1, 2, 3.5, 3.5, 4.5 games out of a playoff spot. We can't expect 6 teams to all go in the tank while the Raptors go on an unprecedented winning streak. The Raptors are more precisely 2nd last in the Eastern Conference. The best bet for the Raptors would for Bosh and Calderon to stay out with injury (thus giving the team an excuse for losing) and lose. If we stay where we are we have a good chance at a good lottery pick. Combine a good lottery pick with cap space to sign a free agent and that makes next season look good (and improves our chances of keeping Bosh). What I'm afraid of is the Raps scratching and clawing their way up to the 9 or 10 spot and getting stuck with a low lottery pick (or by some miracle getting the #8 spot, being blown out in the first round to Cleveland or Boston, and having to give up our #1 draft pick to Miami).

Remember when David Robinson was injured and the Spurs went in the tank? They got the #1 draft pick and selected Tim Duncan. And... next thing you know they are NBA Champions.
canmark
Shaq stole the show at the NBA All Star game. First was his great masked dance with JabbaWokeeZ, winner of season one of America's Best Dance Crew (which I watch sometimes on Muchmusic in Canada). And then the great role reversal give-and-go with Chris Paul in the post and Shaq delivering a bounce pass through Dwight Howard's legs.

Shaq and JabbaWokeeZ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmbh7pqYFDw

Shaq's give-and-go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf4zIVU5VWs
Travelpat
There is one other very important factor that comes into play for the Raptors Canmark - and that is their gaining any kind of traction in terms of being a major player in the Toronto sports market - and I think the pressure is extreme to do something THIS year. Remember this is a team that just 3-4 seasons ago was playing sometimes to an almost half empty ACC on many nights and still has nowhere near the following of either the Leafs or Jays and now may only be on par even with TFC. We've chatted on here about the fact that a whack of their games have been on TSN2 this year (including this week's game against Lebron and the Cavs) - which most people in Toronto do not get and how that impacts negatively on the level of interest in the team. Rumour has it more people were at the ACC than watched across all of Canada on TSN2 one of their recent home games. Nobody I work with will even take free tickets to a Raps game if I have to cancel at the last minute - yet if it is baseball, hockey or soccer tickets that become available - I'll get multiple offers.

And I suspect this may be one of the last seasons that the Leafs will be wallowing near the bottom of the NHL standings with Brian Burke now at the helm. So if they want to take advantage of building their fan base NOW is when they must be doing it - because we know a team doesn't stand a chance in attracting support once the Leafs become good again and completely dominate the sports market here - especially when you also take into account that the Vancouver Olympics next winter will completely knock them off the sports radar for about the entire month of February.

So THIS IS THE YEAR the Raptors need to at least maintain the level of support they built up - mainly two seasons ago and have been riding the coattails of since. If they go in the tank and fall off the sports radar without at least making one round of the playoffs - they are in trouble at the gate next season. As the NHL season winds down this year the Leafs are not going to just miss the playoffs on the final weekend, as they have the last 2 regular seasons, sports fans here will be desperate for something to fill that void through late March and early April. An exciting Raptors run at the playoffs followed by a high profile opponent - such as Boston or Cleveland could be just exactly what the Raptors need. Of course I'm assuming they do not embarrass themselves should they make the playoffs.
LarryC
I think the biggest problem Toronto has is convincing Bosh not to leave in 2010. Sorry to say this guys, but right now the chances of that are looking about as slim as the Raptors beating Cleveland in the first round of the playoffs.
Travelpat
I tend to agree Larry - even with signing a free agent with some money freed up under the salary cap and adding a higher first round pick if we tank - a draft pick that is still likely to take a couple of years to develop - keeping Bosh is a long shot at best. And let's face it - how often does a 'lets tank - sign a good free agent and get a good draft pick' plan ever actually pan out. Once out of every 15-20 times NBA teams actually try that plan of attack? I don't like those odds.

I'd rather have a fun ride for a few weeks now making a run for the playoffs and then let the chips fall where they may. And I really think this team can't afford to totally tank now as Mark suggests because the fan support they have is not that strong - and I don't think MLSE will let them tank because they know that will mean tens of thousands of fewer ticket sales for next season, never mind missing the opportunity for a couple of play-off gates this season.

As it is even the actual number of people at the ACC has been thousands below the announced crowd the last couple of times I've been there and there have also been a significant number of completely empty corporate boxes too. Now I suspect tomorrow that may be different with Lebron in town - but the bottom line is the Raps have to generate some buzz again now or you are likely to see next season start with crowds down in the 14,000 - 15,0000 or less range for some games. Many of 6,000+ people who purchased season tickets for the first time after the success of two seasons ago won't renew. I've already had discussions with a number of people who have season tickets around the location my friend has his tickets and there already have been a number of discussions about not renewing if they do not make the play-offs.

So I'd rather be entertained with a fun run to the play-offs now and worry about where the Bosh chips may fall after 2010, because tanking now - would not be fun, would alienate the fragile fan base and realistically be absolutely no guarantee of us being in any kind of an improved position come next year or the year after that.
LarryC
So in the last few days, the Hornets have given away Tyson Chandler and the Kings have given away both Brad Miller and John Salmons. I hate these kind of deals. But in the current economy we'll probably see a lot more salary dumps that make zero basketball sense in the next few days.

New Orleans has obviously given up on this season -- I'm sure that makes Chris Paul feel real good about his team. The Kings weren't going anywhere anyway, but now I wonder if they'll win another game all season. smile.gif

By the way, I don't know if Smokey is still following this board, but I heard that Memphis nixed a deal where they could get Amare because they didn't want to give up Rudy Gay! I guess that's another economic decision, because it sure makes no basketball sense.
George Twins fan
Okay so WTF is with Memphis seemingly bending over backwards to help the Lakers? Last year, they basically stole Gasol and now they've managed to get the Grizzlies to fork over a conditional second round pick for Chris freakin' Mihm? Come on!

And the Tyson Chandler to OKC trade has been rescinded. The Thunder didn't medically clear Chandler.
Travelpat
Somebody forgot to tell the players on the Cavs and Raps that the all star break is over. Quite possibly the poorest played NBA game I've ever attended tonight. I knew once Bosh did not dress that we stood no chance against the Cavs - but the never ending missed lay-ups and travel call after travel call against each team just became a joke. Cavs won by about 15 - not sure of the final score as I joined the half of the crowd that left during the first few minutes of the 4th quarter. Watching paint dry - or reading Chris Bosh's Twitter entries from over the all star break would be more exciting. And if you've read Bosh's Twitter entries you know just how boring the game must have been if I'm saying that.
LarryC
QUOTE(George Twins fan @ Feb 18 2009, 08:05 PM) *

Okay so WTF is with Memphis seemingly bending over backwards to help the Lakers? Last year, they basically stole Gasol and now they've managed to get the Grizzlies to fork over a conditional second round pick for Chris freakin' Mihm? Come on!

George, you're kidding, right? A conditional second round pick (protected to #55!) is worth about as much of 5 minutes of Kwame Brown's time. What's more, the Lakers paid Memphis to take him. What's in for Jerry Buss is saving a little bit on luxury tax.

What an incredible anti-climax this year's trade deadline was. After all the rumors of mega-deals, the biggest thing that happens is Houston gives Orlando Rafer Alston?! (By the way, I don't understand what Houston is thinking. Alston is a mixed blessing, but Kyle Lowry is competely unproven.)
smokey16
Larry, I am still around but tired. Trying to watch 2 losing NBA teams is just tooooo much for me.

As for the Grizzlies, no way was Heisley going to pay for Amare. For all the terrible moves the Grizzlies have done on the court, they have made good financial moves off the court.
When the Grizzlies realized no one was going to trade for Antoine Walker's expiring contract, they bought him out, saving 10% of his salary.
The Grizzlies trade for Steve Francis (helping for Rockets), and get cash considerations over the size of his contract, then buy out his contract, mading for a couple payday off Francis. (Mo' Money!..Mo' Money!)
THe Grizzlies trade for Shaun Livingston (helping the Heat), and waive him as the Heat's check cleared.(Mo' Money!)
The Grizzlies trade for Chris Mihm (helping the Lakers), and get more back in cash considerations, than he is owed on his expiring contract (Mo' Money!)
Then the Grizzlies trade Kyle Lowry, who we didn't need with Conley coming on strong and OJ Mayo (who should be the Rookie of the Year), and get back Mike Wilks (expiring contract and out for the season) and Adonal Foyle (expiring contract) and get Orlando's first round pick in the draft and CASH! (Mo' Money, Mo' Money, Mo' Money!)

You may hate Mike Heisley as the owner of your NBA team, but you got to love him as a "BIZNES'" man!!!!

That's just the Grizzlies, add trying to keep up with all the moves of the Oklahoma City Thunder, and you have one tired, worn out NBA fan!!!!!!
Joe in Philly
Read this in the paper today: NBA deals about bottom line, not winning

QUOTE
Despite reaching the Western Conference semifinals last season and holding the fifth playoff seed, while fighting through a series of injuries to key players, the New Orleans Hornets tried to deep-six their playoff chances by trading young big man Tyson Chandler to Oklahoma City.

The veteran players New Orleans acquired - Wilcox and Joe Smith - weren't desired because they could help the Hornets make a run at the Los Angeles Lakers, Denver Nuggets or San Antonio Spurs, but because their expiring contracts helped save $12 million that Chandler was due to make next season.

To the delight of the other Hornets players, who think Chandler can help them win, the trade was rescinded when Chandler failed his physical in Oklahoma City.

In Toronto, the Raptors traded for Jermaine O'Neal last summer to demonstrate to All-Star forward Chris Bosh that they had a commitment to winning. Last week, the Raptors shipped O'Neal to Miami for Shawn Marion and his expiring contract.

I don't think Bosh, who can be an unrestricted free agent after next season, is convinced the Raptors are all in it for a ring.


This is a rather large factor in my having so little interest in the NBA.
canmark
The Suns were unable to move Amare Stoudamire and now they lose him to eye surgery--out 8 weeks.

=============

Jazz owner Larry Miller has died. Of course, Miller gained some notoriety in the gay world when he pulled Brokeback Mountain from his movie theatre chain. Miller had also once employed John Amaechi, who Amaechi called "a bigot" in his book.
LarryC
QUOTE(Joe in Philly @ Feb 20 2009, 02:43 PM) *

NBA_deals_about_bottom_line__not_winning.html]NBA deals about bottom line, not winning[/url]
This is a rather large factor in my having so little interest in the NBA.

Doesn't affect mine. The teams with a chance to win it all -- Lakers, Celtics, Cavaliers and Spurs (if Ginobli ever gets healthy) -- are still in it to win. The rest of this stuff is just window dressing.

Smokey: OKC was a good team to adopt! Heisley may be Fed Ex'ing in another season, but the Thunder are developing an exciting base of Durant (his omission from the All Star game was criminal), Green and Westbrook, and have a ton of draft picks for the next few seasons. Too bad they panicked on Chandler's toe, though.
Joe in Philly
QUOTE(LarryC @ Feb 21 2009, 12:29 PM) *

Doesn't affect mine. The teams with a chance to win it all -- Lakers, Celtics, Cavaliers and Spurs (if Ginobli ever gets healthy) -- are still in it to win. The rest of this stuff is just window dressing.


That's great if you're a fan of one of those four teams. If you're a fan of some other team, it's a joke. Why bother watching or going to games when you know it'll take not just one but a series of miracles for your team to win a title? If you're stuck year after year between, say, 7th and 12th in the conference -- not good enough to get past the first playoff round, not bad enough to have a real shot in the lottery for the #1 draft pick. You can't improve in the draft because you're never high enough to get a real difference-making talent, and you can't improve in free agency or by smart trading because the salary cap requirements are so constraining and flat-out bizarre?
phillyrunner
QUOTE(Joe in Philly @ Feb 21 2009, 04:25 PM) *

That's great if you're a fan of one of those four teams. If you're a fan of some other team, it's a joke. Why bother watching or going to games when you know it'll take not just one but a series of miracles for your team to win a title? If you're stuck year after year between, say, 7th and 12th in the conference -- not good enough to get past the first playoff round, not bad enough to have a real shot in the lottery for the #1 draft pick. You can't improve in the draft because you're never high enough to get a real difference-making talent, and you can't improve in free agency or by smart trading because the salary cap requirements are so constraining and flat-out bizarre?



I think you and Larry happen to be in agreement. He said the rest of the league is window dressing and you basically said being a fan of some other team is a joke. So whether the rest of the league is a joke or window dressing it's all the same. Nowadays even tanking the year on purpose does not guarantee you a number one pick. If attendance drops perhaps changes will eventually be made.
LarryC
Actually, we aren't. I meant that the rest of the trades were just window dressing.

The league is still exciting to me. Two years ago, who thought the Celtics would ever be relevant again? Four years ago, the Lakers looked like a mediocre team. New Orleans was a perpetual door mat, and before LeBron blew up, Cleveland was perpetually mediocre. And now, watch out for Portland and -- believe it or not -- in a few years, OKC.

Sure, some teams do stupid things and sabotage what could have been (Phoenix, Dallas), and some moves that sounded good on paper (Sixers signing Elton Brand) don't work as planned. But that's all part of the game of strategy. The only team that is truly doomed no matter what they do is the Clippers. smile.gif And that, I think, is the earthly punishment for Donald Stern.
WSU Cougars
Lakers smashed the Suns tonight...big game involving Cavs vs Spurs on ESPN tomorrow!!
LarryC
The Suns are a sad sight without both Amare and Nash. Their most effective player last night was, good grief, Alando Tucker.

Separately, just after I was pronouncing the Clippers' doom, they somehow beat the Celtics two nights ago. Boston didn't have Garnett, but they easily won their last 2 games without KG before running into the fearsome Clippers.
canmark
His Shaqness took charge last night against the Raptors. 45 points on 20/25 shooting (5/8 from the free throw line). Bargnani and Voskuhl both fouled out (Voskuhl in only 8 minutes!) feebly trying to guard Shaqasaurus, who stomped on the lowly Raptors.
LarryC
He was trying to match Kobe's 81. OK, I'll stop piling it on. smile.gif

So it seems the Celtics will once again be the most successful bottom feeders. Proving you don't need any trade assets to filll your needs, Marbury and Micki Moore have fallen into their labs (or sank into their hole). I'm surprised Cleveland didn't make a move with Wally's expiring contract. I still don't quite see their current team getting past Boston. (Although there's hope -- supposedly Joe Smith is desperately pleading for a buyout from OKC, so he can worm his way onto a contender).
canmark
Alonzo Mourning's #33 to be first jersey retired by the Miami Heat.
canmark
The Big Shaqtus does it again, dropping 33 points (13/18 shooting, 7/12 FT) as the Suns defeat the Lakers 118-111 despite Kobe's 49 points (18/38 shooting, 10/10 FT) and Pau's 30 points (12/18).
Travelpat
I'm sure the Raptors must be challenging some sort of NBA record for losing the most games in one season - when at some point during that game they had a double digit lead. They did it again yesterday against Utah. Up by 10 late in the 3rd quarter - only to lose by 8. I think one article in todays Toronto Star sums up the entire season for the Raptors.

The headline 'Raptors take usual route to defeat by Jazz'

Then the article goes on to say....
"When the time comes to write the obituary on this Raptor season – the final, polished version of a work that probably could have been started in December – they will use their latest loss as a true indicator of all that's gone wrong. It will be a story that goes something like this: Play well in spurts. Get good production from a couple of players. Hang tight with good team until it really matters. Lose focus at both ends at precisely the wrong moment. Falter down the stretch of close game. Search for answers. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

A Raptors game story tends to take on many of the same characteristics and this one shall be no different.
Chris Bosh has 30 points, Andrea Bargnani has 20 and the Raptors play with intensity and purpose for about 40 minutes. Then a good team clamps down on the best Raptors, Toronto's defence goes from passable to pitiful and another loss goes in the books."

I could not have said it any better myself.

And while I'm slagging the Raps - how is this for stupidity at the ACC. I was invited to a game in a private box last Friday against the Heat and was told my ticket would be 'at the will call window at Gate 2.' The problem with that is the will call window is at Gate One. I went up to the will call window at 6:10PM Friday night and after a search was told there was no ticket for me there. I wandered outside to Gate 2 and it is a gate that opens right out on to Bay Street - no will call window. There was a desk I could see inside - but that was 20-30 feet INSIDE past the turnstiles and a security guard said no tickets are ever left there - which made sense since you would have needed a ticket to get there. I won't bore you with all the details of what the four of us who were supposed to be in the same box went through over 45 - 50 minutes including almost getting into a shoving match with an over zealous guard at Gate Two - but after some shouting at people inside the box office and then yelling through the door at Gate Two at people inside at that desk 30 feet past the turnstiles - it was finally determined that our tickets were at that desk. We managed to get to the Box right at opening tip - but the food they had served at around 6:30 was by then somewhat cold. Oh well - fits with the story of the season up here.

How is that for brilliant. You can pick up your tickets at a desk that you need a ticket to get to! I wonder if it was the Raptors coaches who came up with that brilliant plan?
LarryC
Well, Pat, if it makes you feel any better, the Clippers were up by 19 in the 4th quarter and still managed to lose to Cleveland. They've had a number of spectacular come-from-ahead losses this year, but this may be the best yet.
J eddie
Detroit Piston's owner Bill Davidson has passed away.

Rest in peace
canmark
LeBron James on 60 Minutes tonight.
canmark
Ginobili out for the season (and playoffs).

Zach Randolph DUI.
LarryC
Well, that's it for the Spurs. Duncan is also looking worn down, having had to carry them for much of the first half of the season. A little mentioned sideline is that Bruce Bowen is washed up -- hardly plays this year. I think they would miss that defensive stopper in the playoffs, not that it really matters now.
WSU Cougars
I need the Blazers to keep winning and a recent win over LA will help with the team's confidence. I'm excited for the playoffs coming up.
smokey16
I know it's a little early but here are my picks for year-end awards:

MVP: LeBron James
ROY: OJ Mayo (Derrick Rose will get it, but I think Mayo deserves it. Rose had a lot more talent around him than OJ.)
DOY: Dwight Howard
MIP: Devin Harris
6th Man: Jason Terry
COY: George Karl
WSU Cougars
QUOTE(smokey16 @ Apr 13 2009, 09:03 AM) *

I know it's a little early but here are my picks for year-end awards:

MVP: LeBron James
ROY: OJ Mayo (Derrick Rose will get it, but I think Mayo deserves it. Rose had a lot more talent around him than OJ.)
DOY: Dwight Howard
MIP: Devin Harris
6th Man: Jason Terry
COY: George Karl


Good picks!
LarryC
I think Rose deserves it. Mayo is and will be what's known as a "volume scorer." Rose is the complete package -- he can score, run a team and defend.

George Karl is always a half-second away from losing his team. I think either Mike Brown (the easy pick because Cleveland got the best record) or Rick Adelman wins it. This one really is a crapshoot. It's so hard to tell what figured in a team's success. With Denver, I say it was Chauncey Billups. I guess I'd pick Adelman as most deserving, but does anyone really think he's a better coach than Popovich, Sloan or Jackson?
LarryC
Not to gloat, but the COY vote was Brown #1 and Adelman #2. Should have taken that prediction to Vegas. Unlike the other awards, this one was actually a bit hard to call.

LarryC
The Clippers won the lottery! Poor Blake Griffin Either he'll turn into Michael Olowokandi or he'll suffer a career-alter injury.
canmark
The Raps went in #9 and end up #9.

=========

Michael Olowokandi was the Clips' last #1 pick. That draft (1998) saw the likes of Mike Bibby (2), Antawn Jamison (4), Vince Carter (5), Dirk Nowitski (9), Paul Pierce (10). The second round of that draft saw the likes of Rashard Lewis (32) and Rafer Alston (39). And Brad Miller was undrafted that year.
LarryC
In defense of the Clippers (and I can't believe I just typed those words), Olowokandi was the consensus #1 pick at the time. According to the experts, Bibby was the only other possible consideration, and only idiots pick small over big.

It's just the curse of the Clippers. Even when they do the right thing it's wrong.
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