And so it begins.

Edit to add: In experts we trust.

I wonder how many non-Philly,non-Rays fans are actually rooting for Philly?

My guess is probably zero. No one outside of the people who support that lame loser classless city would actually want to see them get a world championship.

Go Tampa!

josh

Poor Josh. So bitter. So sad and pathetic and bitter.

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!

I think injecting your unsolicited one-sided, "be all and end all" opinion 19,156 times is pathetic, sad and bitter.

Gee. I've never heard that before. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Sucks to be you, then, since I'm not going anywhere. So if you're not happy, well, don't let the door hit ya where the dog should've bit ya.

Simply put...

GO RAYS!!!

actually i seem to recall a period of time when you weren't posting....those were the days outsports was worth reading...

so what's been longer? the last time Philadelphia won a championship, or a last time your ugly ass got laid?

Oh wow! Another Philly team has to go through a Tampa Bay team for a Championship!

Actually this could be a good match up, but I think the Rays will prevail. They didn't seem hung up on giving up facing Boston and they have faired well against NL teams. If I remember, Sonnanstine likes hitting and he will probably pitch game 3.

Let's Go Rays! We're number 1! (jab!)

P.S.- How come I didnt get a call offering my insight like the JIP did? LOL

The Phils have a shot if Howard hits like he did in September. I don't expect him to.

Hey JIP, i didn't see you mention that the only writer in your columnwho picked the LCS winners correctly is Rob Neyer, one of my favorite "stathead" types! How on earth could that have happened?

Josh, darling, if the best you can do is personal insults, then you've alreadly lost. You're just another in the line of losers who can't play nice and have nothing intelligent to add. And as of now you're on Ignore status like the others...at least, those who are still posting.



It does add a layer of intrigue, doesn't it? Still, I'm just so happy that the Rays beat Boston because I'm so sick of Boston teams.



Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then?

um...you already started with the insults....by calling me pathetic bitter and sad.....so..i guess i just have to add hypocritical to your long list of character flaws....all i was doing was making a normal remark about the state of the world series....

i guess it does make sense for you to ignore me...i wouldn't want you to have to read anything intelligent--- instead of the mindless bullshit that you've been posting for years...it might hurt whatever small brain you have left....

josh

The topic of this discussion is the 2008 World Series. Further personal or other off-topic comments will result in the suspension of that member's posting privileges.

Outsports moderator

I really have no interest in the Phillies/Rays World Series and probably will only watch the series clinching game. Since one of my favorite players, the ageless Jamie Moyer, pitches for the Phillies, I will root for the Philadelphia. And there was a time in the 90's when Tampa/St Pete was courting the Mariners so that would be another reason why I can't root for them.


Go Phillies.

I'm happy for both teams, since it's some new blood. That being said, I'm pulling for Tampa Bay, since they're relatively close, even tho they beat the White Sox. They've got an young, fun team. Most of locals down here seem to be pulling for them (unless they have Philly roots, of course....)

I am originally from Philly so I should be routing for the phillies but since i now live in Orlando I am rounting for the Rays.

With apologies to all my Outsports Philly buds, I am rooting for the Rays. With no real rooting interest I tend to go for the underdog/small market team.

I'll go out on a limb: Lidge will blow a save.

My favorite of Jonah Keri's 31-1/2 reasons to watch the WS:



http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...mp;sportCat=mlb


JIP, you know Neyer is the same blind squirrel who had the best overall predicting score this year?

http://vegaswatch.net/2008/09/evaluating-a...tions-2008.html

The consensus here is the same as the sports world at large - the Phillies are underdogs.

Peter Gammon of ESPN picks the Phils because of their bullpen strength. I think they need a heck of a lot more than that to beat the Rays. Some hot bats maybe...

It should be a fun series to watch.

GO PHILLIES!

Well in a few hours I am off to the game! Woo hoo!

I do have to say when I hear people say "Oh I am not watching because I don't have any real interests in those teams" it is just annoying. Or when you hear media people say "Noone will be watching this series". Granted everyone has their points of view, but arent you a "baseball fan" and not just a fan of "My team". Do you only watch the Superbowl if your team is in it?

I think one of the best stories this year is not just that it is Tampa Bay, but it's a team with young POST STEROID ERA players on it who have shown it doesnt just take money to buy a team. And I think the Phillies and Charlie Manuel have stuck with what they believed would work over time and it did.

Growing up in Clearwater I also got to go see alot of Philly and Toronto spring training games and many other teams in the area.

What is even more annoying is the drama queens at ESPN and other supposedly "Sports Guys" who wanted the National Enquirer episode of the World Series between Manny Ramirez and the Red Sox.

Anyway, would this day just get over with already! Let's go Rays!

rays are a great story and i'm pulling for them, but baseball is not football. people without rooting interests don't typically watch it. don't be annoyed if baseballs fans are disinterested. rays couldn't even fill up the ballpark in september. enjoy the series and who cares if the rest of the baseball world doesn't watch.

I can't say that I'm a non-Phillies fan but I have been only a casual baseball fan (my father was a bigger one, but he hasn't followed it since the glory days of the Baltimore Orioles).

Still I'm taking the Phillies in seven - apparently the first to do so in the poll, so far. The Phillies, like the city are very "blue collar" oriented - not very interesting to watch but get the job done when pressed.

To be honest I like the two young players Price and Upton a lot. That energy could be a killer if the series lasts a short period of time. But if it does drag out, tactics, strategy and playoff experience are going to matter more, and the Phillies could play well if they, well, come to play.

So much for my little kiss of death.

I have been reading some stuff on the net about Phillies fans having a sense of entitlement because it's been longer since they won the pennant than the Rays, or the Devil Rays for that matter, have existed.

That in itself could be a the kiss of death. The world doesn't owe them, and if they think it does they will be disappointed. But I'm gonna go with the Phillies, hoping the players have more sense than some of the fans.

I'm not sure I agree about the sense of "entitlement." That makes it sound like people think they should just be awarded the title. (That said, if the NFL finally acknowledges the Patriots' cheating and cares to retroactively re-distribute the Super Bowl XXXIX trophy... ) There's definitely a sense that we've waited much longer for one of our teams to win a championship, and have gone through many more agonizing misses over the years. As Todd Zolecki of the Phila. Inquirer puts it on the Phillies Zone blog at philly.com:



He goes on...





Chris Coste is the DH for game 1.

Something that always bugs me: Why does the Rays' ballpark announcer imitate a carnival barker? Very unprofessional, IMO -- but maybe that's just me.

Game one goes to the Phils!!!!!! So much for the home-field advantage. So much for the long layoff after the NLCS. So much for those stupid cowbells and the painful national anthem by the Backstreet Boys.

Once again a lot of scoring opportunities were wasted, but Cole Hamels did it again -- 4 starts in the postseason, all 7-plus innings, no more than 2 runs in each start. Madson and Lidge shut the door in the 8th and 9th.

Edit to add: Before the season Rollins said the Phils would win 100 games this year. Well, they won 90...during the regular season. Counting postseason, guess how many they've won?

And if you believe in odd numerical omens, the last time the Phils won the Series was in '80. This is '08. Their closer back then wore number 45. Their closer now wears number 54. Hmmmmmmmm.

Three to go! Let's go Phillies!!!

The Phillies won the game they were supposed to win and didn't do so convincingly. Constantly they had runners on but failed to produce. Shields and Garza (and likely Sonnanstine) probably won't allow them to get on to begin with... and the Phillies starting rotation drops off substantially from Hamels.

There's a reason Rays in 6 is a popular choice...

Agreed. I thought this game would be dominated by Philly and they barely squeaked by and benefited by a non-balk call that led to an out. (Plus they almost benefitted by another bad call--Burrell was clearly inside the runners lane in the 5th and should have been called out since blocked the view of Pena being able to catch the ball).

Rays also lost game 1 to Boston at home and still won. Plus, many teams in baseball history have lost game 1 at home and still won the world series.

Buck and McCarver are so painful to listen to. How they continue to have jobs is beyond me. They really don't have a clue what they are talking about.

Josh

I also thought the Phils would win at least one Hamels start. Joe Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus thinks the Phils' best shot at winning the series is starting Hamels THREE times -- which would pretty much require a rainout for Game 3 to push everything back. And the forecast for Saturday night is damp...

Memo to Buck & McCarver: DON'T WANNA HEAR 2 MINUTES ON THIS WEEKEND'S NFL SH*T DURING A F*CKING WORLD SERIES INNING.

Like Boston, Phillies got game 1 as many guessed. One mistake by Kazmir and he was behind by two runs, but a win is a win. Hopefully the Rays can get a win tonight and head to that evil dark place northward!

Other than Moyer, who isn't pitching until game 3, no Phils starter has lost in the postseason. Shields has lost twice. Where exactly is this dropoff?

It's in the fact that Hamels was about the 4th best NL pitcher in the regular season this year; Moyer was 17th in the league in Value Over Replacement Pitcher (one of JIP's fave metrics), and none of the other Phil starters were close to the top 20. Shields, Kazmir and Garza were #11, 17, and 19 in the AL facing stronger teams, so Hamels' matchups are the only ones where the Phils have a better guy starting.

What's happened in the last 2 weeks isn't reliably indicative of how they're likely to pitch now.

(edited to refine my numbers)

Boston >>>>>>>>>>> anyone Myers or Blanton pitched against

But that's beyond the point because the postseason is too small of a sample size to judge anything. Just as an example, Myers won his two playoff games at home where for the season he had a 3.01 ERA... however, on the road he was 3-8 with a whopping 6.21 ERA.

You can't argue at all that the Phillies starting four is better than the Rays starting four.

GAME TWO TO THE RAYS!!!!

Just like we thought it would happen... nice, timely hits by the Rays and a great job by Shields, Wheeler and Price to limit anything that Philly wanted to do.

And wow, either David Price is tall (what, 6'6"?) or the Ken Rosenthal is really short.

First, Boston isn't that great a team. If they were they would've beaten Tampa Bay.

Second, if you look at only season in total that's one thing. Look at Myers' stats after he returned from his stint in the minors. That's more indicative of how he's pitching right now. And how he pitched tonight. He certainly didn't lose the game. His offense did, by continuing to suck with runners on base. Jayson Werth did, by making the first-inning error that set up the two runs, and by getting doubled off first base, which is totally inexcusable. And although it wasn't a major factor, the incompetence of the home plate umpire tonight didn't help.



Sure I can. Sports is all about such arguments. That's not what I'm arguing, though. I'm merely disagreeing with the knee-jerk assesments of the "experts" and the haters.



Efficient but not hits. Two runs scored on ground outs and one on a bunt.



There are about 25 people in the known universe who knows what a VORP is. And a third of them don't care.

Tough loss tonight for Phillies who had men on base most of the night but couldn't bring any home until the ninth. Dobbs looked lost up there against a righthander for the first time all year. Even though Brett Myers gave up 4 runs, I didn't think he was particularly hit hard. Some poor fielding and a reversed strikeout call helped the Rays get enough runs to make the difference.

In this game I think the homeplate umpire made two mistakes. One was calling a strikeout on Baldelli then reversing it on an appeal which according to the announcers is not allowed. I don't know the rules but would be interested to know if the announcers were correct. The replay did show Rocco crossing the plate with his bat nonetheless. The other mistake was not calling a hit batter on Jimmy Rollins in the ninth, when it clearly hit his uniform. So for those people that complain the Rays didn't get the breaks in game one, well they did tonight.

While his hand motion may have appeared like he was going to call a strike, on replays you could clearly hear him say something that wasn't "strike" and sure sounded like "ball" to me before motioning to first for the appeal.

They finished just behind the Rays in the regular season and took them to 7 games... so if they're not that great, what are the Rays???



You can say the offense sucked with runners on base, but I feel it's more that Rays pitching are bearing down and getting the job done when they have to. And that was a great, great play by Rocco and Carlos to turn that double play. And I'm glad the Philly fans are going to try to blame the umpire.



I'm sorry, but I don't know where you get off thinking you know more than the "experts." Even though it was a pro-Rays piece in a way, your recent blog entry on it really didn't sit well with me. There is a reason why they have the jobs that they do. So you disagree with them... okay... but you can't just act like they have no clue what they're talking about because it's not what you think.

An assesment that the Rays pitching staff is better than the Phillies pitching staff isn't "knee-jerk." It's a well-supported assesment that was backed up tonight.

I am not going to blame the umpire for the Phillies losing the game, the lack of offense did them in. But umpires in the WS should not be sending mixed signals. I saw a replay and he definitely made a hand motion that looked like a strike out. The announcers saw it too. When does an umpire make a had gesture for a ball? If he said ball he should not have made any hand gestures at all.

Sooner, thanks for the explanation from Mike Port. But it just underscores my point about mixed signals. When you are chosen to umpire in the most important games of the year, it is not a time to be displaying "confusing mechanics".

A fair point...

Better than the Red Sox.



Or it's the Phillies hitters NOT bearing down enough.



But it wouldn't have been a double play if Werth ran properly.



WHO is blaming the umpire? NO ONE. Pointing out that the umpire made mistakes ISN'T blaming him. Certainly no more than the people last night whining about the alleged balk.



I never said I know more than the "experts." I am merely pointing out that they aren't always correct in their assessments, and they have biases that they don't admit to when they make their assessments. Or else right now we'd all be watching the Red Sox and Dodgers...or Red Sox and Cubs...or Angels and Cubs. At least when I said "Phillies in 6" I admit my bias. They don't.

And most of those "experts" dismissed the Rays all season, and all the way through the ALCS.



Not necessarily. Again, an error helped get the Rays two runs in the first.

That's kind of a copout response. He didn't give a confusing mechanic, he gave a mechanic that he always gives for strike 3. A few innings later he rung up someone looking and his mechanic on that started the exact same way.

The Rollins HBP in the 9th though was the correct call. If your uniform is loose fitting (like Rollins wears his uni), and the ball only hits the uniform, then you are not entitled to first base.

Rollins also got away with an interference call in the 7th when Ruiz was stealing second. He swung at a 3-2 pitch and as Navarro released the ball, Rollins stepped right in front of the plate blocking the view. As a result, Navarro's throw short-hopped second base. Since Rollins was already out, Ruiz should have been called out too. McCarver and Buck as usual had no idea what they were talking about when the discussed the play and said, "Rollins is lucky he didn't make contact with Navarro, because then it would have been intereference". Bullshit. You don't need contact in order to get an interference call.

Glad Tampa was able to bounce back. Shields make some big pitches in the game. I know Tampa didn't get many "big hits", but they made their outs count, driving in some runs in the process, as opposed to striking out with a runner on 3rd base and less than 2 outs and mulitple occassions during the game.

josh

Every year Buck and McCarver seem worse. Wednesday night Dim Tim erred in saying Carlos Ruiz is from Venezuela (he was born in Panama). Last night there was not only no correction, Joe Suck REPEATED the error! Does no one at Fox Sports correct these clowns? And Baldelli's check was not "clearly" a swing; I thought he stopped in time (so did Joe Morgan on ESPN Radio).

JIP, I assure you several hundred MLB team employees know what VORP is; it's one of many reasons they know more about baseball than you do. As long as you're going to try to pretend to be a columnist maybe you should make a decent attempt to keep yourself informed.

Good win for the Rays, I expected more offense and runs, but eh. I am off to San Fran on vacation. Who knew the Rays would be in the World Series this week?

Best call of the night last night... The crowd chanting "Tampa..... Bay" and Joe Buck says the Philly faithful are cheering. Moron.

Re: VORP: Yawn. Same old zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

And I'm not pretending to be anything.



Real fans don't schedule vacations during the playoffs.

Edit to add: Some computer models now say tomorrow's rain will end before the game's start time. Some others think it will last until 10 or 11 pm.

I'll be keeping an eye on the weather - I have tickets to the game tomorrow night. I attended another WS game on October 21, 1993 - Phils beat Toronto 2-0.

Hopefully, the Phils won't camp out on the bases again.

Josh you are predictable. There is not a single questionable call favoring the Phillies you would agree with regardless of what the umpires call or announcers say. The opposite is true when it pertains to any team they the Phillies are playing. Really I don't know why you are such a hater of Philadelphia unless you personally had a bad experience in the city. I like NYC even though I may root against the Mets or Giants just because it's a natural rivalry. I can only surmise there is something personal going on here. If you dislike certain people fine, just don't lump everyone under the same umbrella.

Actually, I was disagreeing with Danley's notion and his VP's media statement that his mechanic was "confusing". He gave the normal mechanic for strike 3 and then appealed. That's a major league f**k up and his excuse was a copout. So in that case, I agree that the Phillies got a raw deal on that call.

I am offering insight as to the Rollins HBP. Regardless of whether I like the Phillies or not, my interpretation of how I know the rules are immaterial to the teams that are playing.

I did have a bad experience at CBP. The majority of fans that I encountered there were the biggest bunch of ass****s I've ever met. And that behavior was exhibited with my mom in attendance with me (so that should answer any doubts as to whether or not I was acting inappropriate). I don't even recall getting treated that way in the Bronx, and we all know how much I hate those bastards and their fans.

I've always hated the Eagles because of the rivalry with the Giants. The Phillies seemed to me immaterial because they sucked for 20 years. In the past few years they've been better so the rivalry intensifies. Yes there are posters on this board who root for Philly who infuriate me, but that's not why I made the posts pertaining to the umpires calls. In fact, one time, I was taken to CBP by a former outsports poster who is a Phillie fan and we had a wonderful time.

I'm always offering opinions on umpires calls regardless of the teams playing. I am an umpire in my own right so therefore I'm routinely more interested in the calls they make and typically have more opinion on them. As far as the announcers, I don't care what Buck and McCarver are saying it's probably bullshit and moronic.

Josh

What on earth does this mean?

You'll have to ask Bill W about VORP, sorry.

Looks like a rain delay is probable. The cold front is moving through, and they say once it's past the weather will improve. At his pregame press conference Joe Maddon said he hears that they're looking at a 9:30 pm ET start.