This is interesting. Looks like the closet is more open even among the Neo Nazi's in Europe.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/23/jorge

It was a pretty open secret in Austria. He and his partner were no strangers in gay bars there. Petzner has now been removed as leader of the party. Interesting that Haiders wife knew and did not object to the relationship.

A closeted gay Nazi-lover in Austria. Big surprise. Had he been born in the US he might be a leader in the GOP right now.

No, his name would have been Pat Buchanan, who is just as anti-immigrant as Haider was. Though Buchanan certainly would not make comments saying the SS had "good guys" in it and praising Hitler's labor policy. Haider was rightly condemned for that by the EU and others.

Austria is a strange place. I love it, Go to Graz if you get the chance. As beautiful as Vienna and Salzburg, but off the beaten track. And unlike their northern cousins, Austrians have more of a sense of humor. But it is very conservative. Austrians like to say they were Hitler's first victims, but they welcomed the Anshluss wholeheartedly. Because of the Cold War, Austria did not experience denazification and the soul-searching that Germany (particularly West Germans) went through. Hence you could have Kurt Waldheim elected president after his wartime activities came to light.

I experienced first-hand how they have not learned from their past, at least on the part of an older generation. In the early 90s I was going from Prague to Vienna by train. I was traveling a first class (real cheap back then) and wanted to practice my German with the older couple in the same compartment. The old guy started to say that American policy vis a vis the Native peoples and English policy vis a vis the Irish was just the same as what their policy vis a vis the Jews! WTF, I thought. When I challenged him on it, he became agitated, and I just moved.

As for Haider's homosexuality, well as swiminbuuff stated, it was an open secret. Ernst Roehm was gay. It was accepted amongst the Nazi party leadership until Roehm and the SA challenged Hitler for mastery of the party and challenged the army by wanting to replace it with the SA. Roehm's homosexuality was used to justify the Night of the Long Knives in 1934.

A few years ago after 9/11, there was a Dutch politician on the Right who was openly gay. He spoke out against the way immigrants (mainly Muslim) were not being integrated into Western societies, that is, non-acceptance of liberal ideals and values. He was murdered by Islamist terrorists. Though he was described as a far right politician in the press, he was not the same as Haider. Haider was more, like Buchanan, rising to prominence by using a rallying cry, "Close the gates, the barbarians are at the doorstep!"

Pim Fortuyn was his name. I'm familiar with Austrian history, including from after the Anschluß forward. I've read all the rationalizations for this man's and his right-wing parties' ascents, but it's no less disturbing. And as far as I know, Pat Buchanan isn't a closet homosexual. But Larry Craig and other top right-wing GOP types are.

One thing I'll never forget years ago was being in Brussels and running into an American couple, older folks from Utah, who'd been traveling through Central Europe. They really wanted to see Austria because the husband was of Austrian descent. Well, they get to Austria, and I guess they had a horrible time. They couldn't stop talking about how rude everyone was, how expensive it was, and how, when they went to the salt mines, they were shoved down one of the tunnels I guess you can slide down. All in all it sounded like a trip from hell. They did say they'd had a good time in Germany and other neighboring countries.

I was only pointing to the parallels between Haider's views and Buchanan's, nothing else.

I think this is Jörg Haider and Stephan Petzner in happier days



If anyone can read this article they could say for sure whether that's Petzner on the right.

An even more interesting pair of photos:

Governor of the Austrian province of Carinthia Joerg [apparently "oe" = "ö" in varying transliterations] Haider, right in first photo and left in the second, walks along Lake Woerthersee in Velden, Carinthia with Seif al-Islam Gadhafi, son of Libyan Leader Moammar Gadhafi





Weren't there rumors about Seif Gadhafi's sexuality as well, though he has been rumored to have been romantically involved with an Israeli actress? And hasn't his father worn cross-dressing attire and heavy makeup? Perhaps it's just a cutural peculiarity for an aging dad, and a royal prerogative for the jet-setting son.

Interestingly Seif Gadhafi is credited with something called the Isratine Proposal - according to his wiki entry - which is similar to something I wrought about in a long lost thread, though I had no knowledge of his proposal until today.

Apparently it is something that has some interest among a few middle east protagonists, though none that I know of within the only place that matters: Israel.

I am loving that white ensemble Seif al-Islam Gadhafi has on. Not many people can pull off all white, and I think it looks particularly great on someone with his skin tone.

The article doesn't say who that is with Haider.

And, yes, oe=ö. Also ae=ä and ue=ü and ss=ß. It's important to make these substitutions if you don't have the native letters. My favorite examples of leaving the umlauts off are schwül=muggy (weather) and schwul=gay (homosexual).

Would that change the pronunciation as well - "ü" sounding like the "e" in her and "u" like the the "oo" in school?

In which case they wouldn't be confused so easily when spoken correctly.

It's a deficiency of English language inscription that sounds vary for the same letter, and only memorization can fill all the gaps.

Yes, they are pronounced differently as they really are different letters: u/ü. It's not like forgetting to dot an "i" or cross a "t". The sound of "ü" doesn't exist in English, but sounds kind of like a cross between the "ee" in "cheese" and "oo" in "school."

The problem is only in print especially in the American press. The "ue" for "ü" substitutions must be made if you don't have "ü" in your type font, but either through ignorance or laziness this is seldom done.

Pim Fortuyn wasnot killed by Islamist terrosrists. He was killed by WHITE Dutchman!!




Pim Fortuyn wasnot murdered by Islamic terrorist. He was killed by WHITE Dutchman!!
And his policy certainly was more or less the same as Haider's. I think it will be even worse if he had had the chance setting up policies like Haider did.

Yep, Fortuyn was killed by a white Dutch citizen, Volkert van der Graaf, who was a radical left activist.

Fortuyn's politics were deeply problematic.

Yes, Fortuyn's politics were problematic, but I agree with Andrew Sullivan on this.

On van der Graaf

That is totally suggestive!
Like all previous presidents of US>> their actions were based on non facts>> cannot blame the world hating Americans>> I do hope Obama is able to turn the tide...

Uh?