When I was first coming out, a friend recommended reading The Mayor of Castro Street. It is amazing to think how much and how little has changed in 30 years.

So true. I'm reading it again right now. The other week I found an old SF magazine that has an interview with Milk from before he was elected (during an early campaign).

On Friday there's going to be an anniversary march in his honor.

The new movie Milk is good, but anyone who likes it and hasn't seen the documentary The Times of Harvey Milk should seek it out. It's a great movie.

My partner said the same thing about seeing the documentary after seeing the movie Milk. We both found the movie to be just good, not great. And he thought the documentary was much better, so we'll be renting it so that I can see the entire thing for the first time and so that he can review things he found missing from the movie.

We both thought the death scene was particulary the over-the-top, with the operatic allusions.

Another interesting thing was the importance of politics, and how the "game" is played in the movie. The sudden cold feet of the New York legislature on gay marriage is an indication that the rules have hardly changed.

Democrats made decided appeals to anti-gay groups to win the current presidential election, and protecting their new found majorities, or increased majorities, will now be more important than any single constituency.

But I think the tide is turning on the issue, or better said "issues", of gay rights. And more humane and fair treatment of any minority is progress for gays. Hopefully Democrats will continue a world trend in that direction for the USA.

For too long now a narrow (numerical and minded) right-wing majority has excessively marginalized all of us.

My bf & I were talking about his death the other day. He was 20 yrs old & was living in SF when Milk was shot & killed. He remembers Milk & heard him speak in public many times, he went to the vigils after his death, but what he remembers most was the anger that had reached a boiling point when White's verdict was announced! It was interesting to hear his story knowing that he had witnessed & participated in our community's early, yet tragic political history.

We'll probably go see the film tomorrow. I haven't mentioned it to him but I'm wondering how he's gonna react to it. Knowing my hubby he'll probably cry & relive his anger once more.

Without giving Milk away, I'd love to hear what your boyfriend ends up thinking about the movie, SC.

sportinlife, I've been second -guessing or questioning some of my opinions about or criticisms of the movie. Maybe just as an exercise. I still don't think it's as good as Times.

The operatic bit is something most people I've talked to think is bad. For me it might be a matter of execution, the way it's handled. I kind of like the idea, because City Hall faces the Opera House in San Francisco, Milk loved opera (though if Verdi was too obvious for him, who knows what he thought of Puccini), and maybe most interestingly, Jose Sarria who was Milk's kickass non-traditional forebear in gay SF politics did operatic drag.

The whole match of quiet, retiring, kinda chilly Gus Van Sant with emotive, angry, passionate, demonstrative Harvey Milk is very odd couple. I guess it does work, for the most part.

One thing about Harvey Milk though, that I'd hope Milk combats somewhat. His death was a tragedy (especially in the wake of Jonestown) and still is tragic, but his life was celebratory.

For me, the sad part of Harvey Milk's legacy is how lively gay life, and his ideal of gay life, was back then. There was a palpable sense of community. Now, people are inclined to live through their computers and aim to match straight societal roles. Maybe this will change with a new era upon us in the US. I wonder what he'd think of today. He'd be fighting the marriage-equality battle, I'd guess, but maybe he would have a lot more to say.

I'll keep you posted Two-hander

I haven't seen Milk so I can't comment on it, but I have seen the documentary and it is excellent.

As the Reuters article you link to suggests, it's not "cold feet" but a power struggle, based on race and ethnicity, that is creating a bottleneck with New York's Democratic legislature. It's not unlikely that if the NY State Senate Democrats can resolve their issues and address the concerns of the three Latino legislators, they would conceivably have enough Democratic votes (not counting Rubén Díaz Sr.) and a few GOP ones to pass a gay marriage bill which Governor Paterson would sign. That doesn't mean it would happen, but it's a political struggle right now, rather than a psychologically motivated hesitation on the part of the Democrats, that's holding things up.

Finally, to whom and when did the Democrats make "decided appeals to anti-gay groups to win the current presidential election"? Just wondering, so please do fill me in.

We need more Harvey Milks.

Wait, strike that: we need someone even more forceful, more provocative, more controversial, willing to stand up to criticism from ALL SIDES, willing to point the finger at the people who need the finger pointed at them, willing to speak truth to both power and those who crave it. We need a gay Malcolm, not a gay Martin. We need someone who goes to bat for gay people, but who understands shades of gray.

We need leaders.

Obama made no secret about his intention to expand upon President Bush's faith-based initiative. And though he clearly intends that it doesn’t conflict with church and state [sic] he may find that pratice is harder than the preaching. And I guess I interpret the problems in the New York legislature different than you do fantomas.

It is difficult for me to understand how Obama intends to monitor and regulate the actions of these faith-based organizations.

When I tutored with a black chemistry organization churches were used as classrooms. The religious literature was still there. Bibles are not removed. Mixed messages are certainly sent - so to speak.

I am a person of faith myself. But I neither believe that earth was created in 5000 years nor that "Jesus is my personal savior" in the sense that Christianist zealots do.

Obama and many faithful Democrats have found a way to speak to the christian churches in a language that they may be hearing in a different way than is intended. Hopefully they control their message.

The movie was great...even handed and almost documentary-like though I found myself rooting for Scott and Harvey's relationship. All the supporting cast were terrific especially James Franco and Emile Hirsch but Sean Penn was something special - he's never played someone so flesh and blood, so warm and heartfelt.

I hadn't realized how little I knew about Harvey Milk, but now I see how important he was to the Movement (and how deserving he is to have schools, and such, named after him). It was not only his individual efforts, but he developed a team of people around him, and he helped lead the community at large.

I was actually expecting the movie to be more melodramatic than it was... and I wouldn't have minded if the death scene was even more 'operatic.' I was expecting more tears, more drama, more grief.

I'm also curious about the aftermath, the trial, the White Nights riot, and how the other members of Milk's circle contributed in their various ways to the Movement. I also didn't fully understand Dan White from Milk. It is intriguing that Milk says "I think he's one of us," meaning gay. Harvey seemed to always want to help lost souls, and at times he seemed to be reaching out to White, but there was friction there, too.

Harvey Milk is an important part of gay history, so I hope that young people get a chance to see this. And I hope they realize that all the rights they now enjoy are the results of people like Milk and many, many others, putting their lives, their careers, their families... putting everything on the line. And we should properly honor them.