Read it and weep.
So where were the SEC and Department of Treasury while this was going on?
Is there some way we can blame this on American car manufacturers and their UAW handlers?
And lastly, how many more "Madoffs" have made off with wealth that could have been working for someone?
Full Version: How Madoff made off with US wealth
There's this con man: prominent New York attorney Marc Dreier.
Looks like he got a tougher deal than Madoff.
Looks like he got a tougher deal than Madoff.
This is just horrible. In addition to individuals, several non-profits have been ruined because of this man. So many trusted him..trust that was sadly misplaced. The latest I have heard is that he may have a forture squirreled away in foreign banks. For the sake of the non-profits, I hope that is the case.
There is a relatively simple and straightforward solution to our economic mess: progressive taxes that only exempt those who invest - and do so within the US. Regardless of where the money is spent the market will then work for those who pay it.
But for now the money is being either hoarded or used to make the financier look solid while waiting for the storm to pass. The third possible usage is to continue the bad investments (loans that are made to make money quickly rather than to make things which will make money more slowly) that got us where we are. There is a real danger that that will resume once high-flying international crooks see an opening.
Right now we are paying money into a leaking bucket. We cannot fix the situation by pouring more into it. The bucket must be repaired first, or at least at the same time. We are risking real disaster if we do not.
The president is the only elected official in this country whose constituency is the entire nation. He or she has to be the driving force to achieve this transition back to common sense. I include "she" because it is not clear that the next president yet fully understands this, or is willing to act upon it.
I'm still hopeful.
Barack Obama, I believe, has the best of intentions. These are necessary but not sufficient to fix this bucket.
But for now the money is being either hoarded or used to make the financier look solid while waiting for the storm to pass. The third possible usage is to continue the bad investments (loans that are made to make money quickly rather than to make things which will make money more slowly) that got us where we are. There is a real danger that that will resume once high-flying international crooks see an opening.
Right now we are paying money into a leaking bucket. We cannot fix the situation by pouring more into it. The bucket must be repaired first, or at least at the same time. We are risking real disaster if we do not.
The president is the only elected official in this country whose constituency is the entire nation. He or she has to be the driving force to achieve this transition back to common sense. I include "she" because it is not clear that the next president yet fully understands this, or is willing to act upon it.
I'm still hopeful.
Barack Obama, I believe, has the best of intentions. These are necessary but not sufficient to fix this bucket.
If he has a lot of that money in "swiss bank accounts" I think you can still forget it. I'm sure that money is going to go to people he was close to. I think it would be a miracle if they recover anything. Its really a sad situation. They were profiling this elderly Florida couple who has now lost their entire life savings due to this guy. This is slimy to the worst degree as far as I'm concerned. From what I understand the SEC did investigate him several years ago and found nothing wrong because his scheme was done off the books, and what he had presented and what the SEC investigated appeared totally on the up and up.
QUOTE
From what I understand the SEC did investigate him several years ago and found nothing wrong
I've read that some of the companies that did business with him had him audited by "indepent" firms who had ex-SEC members on their staff.None of these ex-SEC auditors could find anything wrong with his books.
That either says something unpleasant about our system for auditing or about the integrity of said auditors, or both.
The spreading ooze:the corruption is deeper and wider:
QUOTE
The $50 billion also pales next to other sums that remain unaccounted for in the Bush era, from the $345 billion in lost tax revenue due to unpoliced offshore corporate tax havens to the far-from-transparent disposition of some $350 billion in Wall Street bailout money.
and international:Satyam is Hindi for Madoff:QUOTE
The latest development comes after the company's founder, Ramalinga Raju, and his brother, co-founder Rama Raju, were arrested Friday and taken into judicial custody until Jan. 23.
So where is the outrage? Or better still, where is the money?
After this scandal, Madoff should have his mofo ass thrown in jail & not stay out on bail! Let's see how the judge rules on this. 
I was watching the news a few days ago (I believe it was CNN) & one of the reporters asked the other reporter,"What do you think Martha Stewart thinks of all this & the rest of the Wall Street scandals?" The other reporter responded, "Injustice!"...I'll say!
I was watching the news a few days ago (I believe it was CNN) & one of the reporters asked the other reporter,"What do you think Martha Stewart thinks of all this & the rest of the Wall Street scandals?" The other reporter responded, "Injustice!"...I'll say!
Now this truly is a tragic outcome because of this scandal. 
I know it doesn't clarify that the suicide was directly linked to the Ponzi scheme, but one would venture to guess that it was. If so, I wonder what legal steps the family will/can take against Madoff now.
I know it doesn't clarify that the suicide was directly linked to the Ponzi scheme, but one would venture to guess that it was. If so, I wonder what legal steps the family will/can take against Madoff now.
Again, showing the lack of so called blind justice. This son of a bitch gets to remain in his $7 million penthouse while accused of this $50 billion dollar ponzi scheme. Meanwhile, some guy is in prison in Philadelphia for petty theft under $500 because he has a substance abuse problem and is poor. Ridiculous. This makes me so angry!!!
SCTrojan...I was just talking to a friend about that, but its really hard to do. The most they could probably do is file a civil suit, but even that will be hard to do. It often depends so much on the circumstances. There have been civil suits filed based on things like this. One that comes to mind is one of my old boyhood friends who took a very wrong path, ended up in jail, and hung himself. Allegedly, some of the other prisoners saw what he was doing, screamed out to the officers for help, but none of them paid any attention. She has since filed a civil suit for negligence and wrongful death. In addition, she also warned them that he had a history of suicide attempts and was worried he may attempt while in the jail. This situation may be so much harder sue Madoff over, but if I was the victim's family I would definitely seek legal advice to see if the case would hold water.
SCTrojan...I was just talking to a friend about that, but its really hard to do. The most they could probably do is file a civil suit, but even that will be hard to do. It often depends so much on the circumstances. There have been civil suits filed based on things like this. One that comes to mind is one of my old boyhood friends who took a very wrong path, ended up in jail, and hung himself. Allegedly, some of the other prisoners saw what he was doing, screamed out to the officers for help, but none of them paid any attention. She has since filed a civil suit for negligence and wrongful death. In addition, she also warned them that he had a history of suicide attempts and was worried he may attempt while in the jail. This situation may be so much harder sue Madoff over, but if I was the victim's family I would definitely seek legal advice to see if the case would hold water.
"What do you think Martha Stewart thinks of all this & the rest of the Wall Street scandals?"
I heard this exact quote at the YMCA the other day. Amazing.
T
I heard this exact quote at the YMCA the other day. Amazing.
T
It is rare that I read articles by this columnist since I tend to find that he avoids the really tough measures necessary to regulate the economy, or makes suggestions that suggest he either is in the emloyment of one of the larger financial institutions, or expects to be at some point.
But this article Time For (Self) Shock Therapy has me shocked that I find myself agreeing with him almost word-for-word:
But this article Time For (Self) Shock Therapy has me shocked that I find myself agreeing with him almost word-for-word:
QUOTE
"Right now," said David Smick, author of "The World Is Curved," "the bankers are sitting on mountains of cash, including our bailout money, because they know their true balance sheets are a disaster - far worse than publicly stated." The situation will likely worsen as delinquent consumer and auto loans are piled atop bad mortgages.
"Obama needs to inject some truth serum into the banking discussion.
No one trusts the banks, and even the bankers don't trust each other." Bringing clarity to bank balance sheets, said Smick, "is the first step to fixing America's bank lending problem."
Only after we bring full transparency to the bank balance sheets will we see private capital buying into banks again at scale. But have no illusions. There are still real balance sheet problems that have to be surmounted. This is not just a psychological crisis.
Add progressive taxation and I think we have a fix.
"Obama needs to inject some truth serum into the banking discussion.
No one trusts the banks, and even the bankers don't trust each other." Bringing clarity to bank balance sheets, said Smick, "is the first step to fixing America's bank lending problem."
Only after we bring full transparency to the bank balance sheets will we see private capital buying into banks again at scale. But have no illusions. There are still real balance sheet problems that have to be surmounted. This is not just a psychological crisis.
I have mixed feelings about this article. I wish Obama would be as harsh as FDR, but considering who he is & what he's been sayin in his speeches, perhaps it would have caused a negative image/stir especially during his inauguration (although he did have stern words for the terrorists of the world). He obviously is/was trying to invoke a sense of national unity so....
QUOTE(SCTrojan @ Jan 20 2009, 06:50 PM) 
I have mixed feelings about this article. I wish Obama would be as harsh as FDR, but considering who he is & what he's been sayin in his speeches, perhaps it would have caused a negative image/stir especially during his inauguration (although he did have stern words for the terrorists of the world). He obviously is/was trying to invoke a sense of national unity so....
But I am not yet convinced that he will be able to stick to the tough love that the market needs. His "pragmatism" may cause him to give up on something that is working, but not fast enough, just as it may help him to avoid persisting in an ineffective fix. Building from the bottom up may take more time.
Polls say most people seem willing to give him a couple of years. That is very unusual for Americans, especially in the internet age. However a good policy may have to be implemented longer to show results "on the ground" in employment with benefits for average workers.
My personal preference would be to return to a progressive tax as quickly as possible to pay for the disaster.
More scandal! To think that this could have been dealt w/ a decade ago. Un freakin real!
It is difficult to know just how serious a threat Harry Markopolos believed there was - or is - to his "public saftey" but it is likely that his financial future was at stake; and not so much due to the direct action of Bernard Madoff or an associate, but due to the system that has been bought and paid for by those who can afford to influence how SEC laws are made and enforced.
That would be a relatively long list of people with money to spare for political influence - if not as capital to support the bad investments or loans they make.
Tom Daschle's situation is only the most recent example of how money from multiple institutions and/or individuals can "buy" laws without appearing to, or in a way to make it appear they are doing "good" unselfishly for others.
Federal employees in the executive branch ultimately answer to one person, even if there is a multitude of legislation thrown down by Congress.
I thought Obama made an exceptional departure from past administrations when he apologized publicly for the failure on his part in the Daschle nomination - without the impetus of a threat of impeachment or an imminent election. Bush persisted in an illegal war in the face of national and international public pressure for years. Still I am waiting for Obama to wake up on this economic situation. He can only sleep for so long.
That would be a relatively long list of people with money to spare for political influence - if not as capital to support the bad investments or loans they make.
Tom Daschle's situation is only the most recent example of how money from multiple institutions and/or individuals can "buy" laws without appearing to, or in a way to make it appear they are doing "good" unselfishly for others.
Federal employees in the executive branch ultimately answer to one person, even if there is a multitude of legislation thrown down by Congress.
I thought Obama made an exceptional departure from past administrations when he apologized publicly for the failure on his part in the Daschle nomination - without the impetus of a threat of impeachment or an imminent election. Bush persisted in an illegal war in the face of national and international public pressure for years. Still I am waiting for Obama to wake up on this economic situation. He can only sleep for so long.
And the tragedies continue & not simply on American soil.
I'm more concerned about the shameless mini-Madoffs who are continuing the tradition largely unfettered.
A few exceptions:
Mini-Madoff 1
Mini-Madoff 2
Mini-Madoff the movie
A mini-Madoff collection
Maybe they can be made into dolls and sold at Christmas...or Halloween.
It would certainly do more for the economy than any of them have.
Or perhaps the SEC could start a new uncorrupted branch of career enforcers called the Anti-Madoff Division.
A few exceptions:
Mini-Madoff 1
Mini-Madoff 2
Mini-Madoff the movie
A mini-Madoff collection
Maybe they can be made into dolls and sold at Christmas...or Halloween.
It would certainly do more for the economy than any of them have.
Or perhaps the SEC could start a new uncorrupted branch of career enforcers called the Anti-Madoff Division.
At least hudreds of those that were scammed were able to vent!
Hopefully in the end they get SOME of their losses back...but I'm not holding my breath, sadly.
Hopefully in the end they get SOME of their losses back...but I'm not holding my breath, sadly.
Hopefully in the end, the IRS gets some of the losses back. The new Obama budget will count some unspecified "tax resources" to defray future deficits according to what I have been reading.
If this means that they expect to be able to recoup some of the taxes illegally avoided during the Bush years - above and beyond those legally avoided, which should be captured in the future under new or revised legislation - then that is a hopeful sign.
This financial meltdown is indeed an opportunity. Whether Obama will realize he has the political capital to pursue them persistently and extensively enough to make a difference in stabilizing the economy is another matter.
We shall see.
If this means that they expect to be able to recoup some of the taxes illegally avoided during the Bush years - above and beyond those legally avoided, which should be captured in the future under new or revised legislation - then that is a hopeful sign.
This financial meltdown is indeed an opportunity. Whether Obama will realize he has the political capital to pursue them persistently and extensively enough to make a difference in stabilizing the economy is another matter.
We shall see.
There might be SOME light @ the end of the tunnel after all for those who were swindled. But oy, what a nightmare!
A brighter light at the end of the tunnel may be how we fix a fundamental problem with our economy: capitalism as practiced by the USA and a world still under our current leadership is antithetical to the scientific process with respect to how we share information.
In the business world the patent is a critical tool. It protects information from others. Information is power and can be used for profit. In the scientific world not sharing information is usually counter-productive and even dangerous because it defeats the necessary vetting process that is required to produce good science.
It is true that geniuses may work best in a vacuum that does not bombard them with conventional wisdom because they need to break away from that to solve the most difficult problems. But those breadthroughs are far less useful if their fruits cannot be honed and then diffused by other scientists.
A case in point is the drug development that I have seen peripherally in my own work as an analytical chemist in the pharmaceutical field. When companies are run by scientists they seem to tend toward better science and more effective and safer drugs. When they are more influenced by MBAs the science takes second place to patent protection to yield more profit from poorer drugs for a longer period of time.
How we deal with this conflict and achieve efficiency as well as quality may determine how, or even if, we emerge from the current world economic slump. So I would watch carefully whether we deal with our health.
In the business world the patent is a critical tool. It protects information from others. Information is power and can be used for profit. In the scientific world not sharing information is usually counter-productive and even dangerous because it defeats the necessary vetting process that is required to produce good science.
It is true that geniuses may work best in a vacuum that does not bombard them with conventional wisdom because they need to break away from that to solve the most difficult problems. But those breadthroughs are far less useful if their fruits cannot be honed and then diffused by other scientists.
A case in point is the drug development that I have seen peripherally in my own work as an analytical chemist in the pharmaceutical field. When companies are run by scientists they seem to tend toward better science and more effective and safer drugs. When they are more influenced by MBAs the science takes second place to patent protection to yield more profit from poorer drugs for a longer period of time.
How we deal with this conflict and achieve efficiency as well as quality may determine how, or even if, we emerge from the current world economic slump. So I would watch carefully whether we deal with our health.
Assuming this does not turn out to be a suspicious death, Jeffry Picower's apparent drowning is proof that you can't take it with you, no matter how much you have.
If it is suspicious it may show that Bernie Madoff may be safer in jail with his "buddies" than out.
A lot of people lost a lot of money and are pretty jealous and bitter at those who made it.
If it is suspicious it may show that Bernie Madoff may be safer in jail with his "buddies" than out.
A lot of people lost a lot of money and are pretty jealous and bitter at those who made it.
From what I understand from a 60 minutes special about the two in charge of going after Madoff, anyone who made even 1 cent more from their original investment into Madoff's scheme will be gone after to pay back their profit.
The "Madoffs" are only the tip of a slowly growing iceberg. Larry Elliott's article The capitalist dream is dying a painful death would be better titled with the last line: "The seeds of the next crisis are being sowed. Right here. Right now."
The pain is primarily being felt at the bottom of the iceberg - or pyramid as the case may be - where the weight greatest.
The pain is primarily being felt at the bottom of the iceberg - or pyramid as the case may be - where the weight greatest.
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