Well - all those supporters of fighting in hockey are going to be hard pressed to support their argument now. A 21 year old hockey player for a minor league team just outside Toronto has died after a few weeks in a coma - due to severe head trauma that he suffered when his head hit the ice after his helmet came off during a fight. Police are now investigating to see if charges should be laid.
Don Cherry on Hockey Night In Canada - who has lead the crusade to protect players by having no touch icing adopted in the NHL - because of how many players have been needlessly seriously hurt in races for the puck on icing calls - inexplicably promotes fighting in hockey. He even at times has said the 'good guy' fighters take their own helmets off so the guys don't hurt their hands. That now sounds dumber than ever in view of the fact that Don Sanderson - the 21 year old who has died - hit his head on the ice after his helmet had come off during a fight.
I was at a Leafs game last year when a Leaf player was badly hurt with a concussion suffered during a fight. It was very scary and you could see the panic in the eyes of game officials, trainers and other players as they feared the worst the way his helmetless head whacked against the ice after being nailed by a punch.
Here's the tragic story of the 21 year old who has lost his life because of a stupid hockey fight.
http://www.thestar.com/article/561306
Full Version: Hockey Player dies from injury suffered during fight
I'm going to disagree on the no-touch icing rule, because there are plenty of times when a player's hustle in getting to the puck first and negating the icing results, if not in a goal, at least in a change of momentum.
What has to change is the league's acceptance of dirty hits. Some fights occur because a team falls behind by a couple of goals early and wants to regain momentum, so the "enforcer" goes out and starts a fight with the other team's "enforcer." I don't give that idea much credibility so it would seem easy enough to remove that from the sport.
But other fights are started because of a blatantly dirty play, and in part these hits continue to happen because the league won't crack down. The league has to set out strong punishments -- at least 15 games for a first offense, and worse from there -- and stick to them and enforce them consistently. Often the suspension seems to be based on the injury suffered. Just because a hit doesn't result in a serious injury doesn't mean the intent wasn't there.
And the league has to ban all hits to the head under any circumstances.
What has to change is the league's acceptance of dirty hits. Some fights occur because a team falls behind by a couple of goals early and wants to regain momentum, so the "enforcer" goes out and starts a fight with the other team's "enforcer." I don't give that idea much credibility so it would seem easy enough to remove that from the sport.
But other fights are started because of a blatantly dirty play, and in part these hits continue to happen because the league won't crack down. The league has to set out strong punishments -- at least 15 games for a first offense, and worse from there -- and stick to them and enforce them consistently. Often the suspension seems to be based on the injury suffered. Just because a hit doesn't result in a serious injury doesn't mean the intent wasn't there.
And the league has to ban all hits to the head under any circumstances.
Im not here to start a huge arguement. It is tragic that a player has passed. It is even more tragic that it is due to an injury while fighting. To say that fighting should not be allowed is ridiculous. Each player choses to drop the gloves and engage in a fight. Noone is coaxing them into this. Everytime they fight they risk serious injuries. If it comes down to an isolated incident of a death occuring due to injuries not even in the NHL to ban fighting, i'm sorry but that is laughable.
So if a player dies but he's not in the NHL it's okay? Is that really what you're saying? Is a death that could've been prevented not a valid reason to change a rule?
And if fighting should be allowed to remain in hockey, why shouldn't it be allowed in any other sport? If Kobe Bryant is lighting up the scoreboard, should an opposing player be allowed to fight him in order to turn around the game's momentum? Should a batter be allowed to charge the mound and beat up Carlos Zambrano if Zambrano's pitching a no-hitter?
And if fighting should be allowed to remain in hockey, why shouldn't it be allowed in any other sport? If Kobe Bryant is lighting up the scoreboard, should an opposing player be allowed to fight him in order to turn around the game's momentum? Should a batter be allowed to charge the mound and beat up Carlos Zambrano if Zambrano's pitching a no-hitter?
The first rule change from the unfortunate death has taken effect in the OHL (Ontario Hockey League) which is basically the Ontario Division of Canadian Junior Hockey that competes against the Western Hockey League and Quebec Major Junior Hockey League for the Memorial Cup each year. It is not a ban on fighting - but basically a ban on removing helmets during a fight.
The Ontario Hockey League - which includes teams in Erie PA, Saginaw MI and Plymouth MI has instituted a game misconduct and an automatic one-game suspension for players who remove their helmets or undo their chinstraps before or during fights. The OHL previously fined a team $100 when a player took off his helmet to fight.
Also under the new rules, if a player removes his helmet and releases his chinstrap to fight and the opposing player doesn't, the former gets an additional two-minute minor penalty in addition to the game misconduct and game suspension. If the player removes his opponent's helmet or releases the chinstrap before or during a fight, a game misconduct and a one-game suspension is the penalty.
Linesmen are now ordered to intervene immediately should helmets become dislodged during a fight.
The penalty for removing helmets to fight in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League is a 10-minute misconduct. The Western Hockey League doesn't currently penalize players for taking off their helmets prior to fighting but is reviewing that policy.
The Ontario Hockey League - which includes teams in Erie PA, Saginaw MI and Plymouth MI has instituted a game misconduct and an automatic one-game suspension for players who remove their helmets or undo their chinstraps before or during fights. The OHL previously fined a team $100 when a player took off his helmet to fight.
Also under the new rules, if a player removes his helmet and releases his chinstrap to fight and the opposing player doesn't, the former gets an additional two-minute minor penalty in addition to the game misconduct and game suspension. If the player removes his opponent's helmet or releases the chinstrap before or during a fight, a game misconduct and a one-game suspension is the penalty.
Linesmen are now ordered to intervene immediately should helmets become dislodged during a fight.
The penalty for removing helmets to fight in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League is a 10-minute misconduct. The Western Hockey League doesn't currently penalize players for taking off their helmets prior to fighting but is reviewing that policy.
A player for the AHL Philadelphia Phantoms suffered a seizure near the end of a fight the other night and was hospitalized, but has now been released. You have to wonder if the seizure was brought on by the fight...
Two seconds into the game and they're fighting? Pathetic.
In 30 games with the Phantoms this year Garrett Klotz has a grand total of one point, an assist. Here are the career notes provided on the Phantoms' website:
Maybe even more pathetic: not only was he actually DRAFTED, but the Flyers took him in the THIRD round.
QUOTE
Two seconds after the opening face-off Friday, Klotz and Westgarth took off their helmets and squared off. Each player landed several punches, but near the end of the fight, Westgarth landed several punches in a row. The TV replay seemed to show that Klotz was struck by one of the blows to the head and then crumpled to the ice.
Klotz had the seizure, which lasted for 30 to 40 seconds, as he lay on the ice along the boards at the Monarchs' bench. Team doctors attended to Klotz on the ice and he was put on the stretcher.
Klotz, 20, was alert and responsive on the way to the hospital and watched the rest of the game on television, a Phantoms official said.
Klotz had the seizure, which lasted for 30 to 40 seconds, as he lay on the ice along the boards at the Monarchs' bench. Team doctors attended to Klotz on the ice and he was put on the stretcher.
Klotz, 20, was alert and responsive on the way to the hospital and watched the rest of the game on television, a Phantoms official said.
Two seconds into the game and they're fighting? Pathetic.
In 30 games with the Phantoms this year Garrett Klotz has a grand total of one point, an assist. Here are the career notes provided on the Phantoms' website:
QUOTE
2007-08: Totaled 4 points with 92 PIM in 52 games for Saskatoon.
2006-07: Traded to Saskatoon from Red Deer...Appeared in 63 games and picked up a career-high 107 PIM
2005-06: Signed as a free agent by Red Deer prior to the season...Appeared in 35 games, scoring two goals and collecting 26 PIM
2006-07: Traded to Saskatoon from Red Deer...Appeared in 63 games and picked up a career-high 107 PIM
2005-06: Signed as a free agent by Red Deer prior to the season...Appeared in 35 games, scoring two goals and collecting 26 PIM
Maybe even more pathetic: not only was he actually DRAFTED, but the Flyers took him in the THIRD round.
There is no reason - other than boneheaded tradition - to keep fighting in the game. They don't allow it at the Olympics - and nobody seems to mind!
QUOTE(Travelpat @ Jan 23 2009, 11:43 AM) 
The first rule change from the unfortunate death has taken effect in the OHL (Ontario Hockey League) which is basically the Ontario Division of Canadian Junior Hockey that competes against the Western Hockey League and Quebec Major Junior Hockey League for the Memorial Cup each year. It is not a ban on fighting - but basically a ban on removing helmets during a fight.
The Ontario Hockey League - which includes teams in Erie PA, Saginaw MI and Plymouth MI has instituted a game misconduct and an automatic one-game suspension for players who remove their helmets or undo their chinstraps before or during fights. The OHL previously fined a team $100 when a player took off his helmet to fight.
Also under the new rules, if a player removes his helmet and releases his chinstrap to fight and the opposing player doesn't, the former gets an additional two-minute minor penalty in addition to the game misconduct and game suspension. If the player removes his opponent's helmet or releases the chinstrap before or during a fight, a game misconduct and a one-game suspension is the penalty.
Linesmen are now ordered to intervene immediately should helmets become dislodged during a fight.
The penalty for removing helmets to fight in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League is a 10-minute misconduct. The Western Hockey League doesn't currently penalize players for taking off their helmets prior to fighting but is reviewing that policy.
Thanks for the info. I don't keep tabs on the CHL as much as I really should. I'd heard of the changes but never in detail. Thanks. Doesn't surprise me that the WHL hadn't done a thing yet as of when you wrote that.
QUOTE(Joe in Philly @ Jan 5 2009, 04:39 PM)
I'm going to disagree on the no-touch icing rule, because there are plenty of times when a player's hustle in getting to the puck first and negating the icing results, if not in a goal, at least in a change of momentum.
What has to change is the league's acceptance of dirty hits. Some fights occur because a team falls behind by a couple of goals early and wants to regain momentum, so the "enforcer" goes out and starts a fight with the other team's "enforcer." I don't give that idea much credibility so it would seem easy enough to remove that from the sport.
But other fights are started because of a blatantly dirty play, and in part these hits continue to happen because the league won't crack down. The league has to set out strong punishments -- at least 15 games for a first offense, and worse from there -- and stick to them and enforce them consistently. Often the suspension seems to be based on the injury suffered. Just because a hit doesn't result in a serious injury doesn't mean the intent wasn't there.
And the league has to ban all hits to the head under any circumstances.
While you are correct about icing, frankly the risk IMO just isn't worth it compared to the benefit. But it is a judgment call.
As for fighting. There is some truth to the fact that fighting in order to change the momentum can work, but honestly, again it isn't that much of a shifter that I'd support it. It is done more for the entertainment value than anything. A time out works just as well IMO, with no risk.
As for the dirty hits, you are correct. The league needs to actually call them, period. I don't care if someone gets injurred or not. They need to adopt a rational system. But they need to hold the teams accountable as well. First off, call major penalties for God's sake! Secondly, the fines ought to be seriously increased. I'd say something along the lines of $250 per minute in the box, or graduate the amount up based on history. Thirdly, the teams ought to have to match the fines and it ought to count towards the cap. A clean organization ought to have an advantage. However, everything needs be called, and called evenly irregardless of who did what to whom and why and in what zone. The most flagrent violations deserve heavy suspensions, like what you mentioned above. Frankly, some guys just don't belong on the ice, no matter how talented they are. They just don't have the emotional control necessary to be a hockey player.
The joke has always been , I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out. Yes it is tradition and yes it is dumb and outdated, and yes some players are on teams more for their ability to fight than their ability to score goals.
In the Panthers-Flyers game last Thursday, Florida's Gregory Campbell and Philadelphia's Daniel Carcillo fought three seconds into the first period. Moronic, useless and pathetic. But most hockey fans love this stuff.
Okay, about the whole "a fight can change the momentum of a game" idea...a thought occurred to me near the end of the Flyers-Penguins game today.
Danny Briere scored on a power play at 4:06 of the second period to give the Flyers a 3-0 lead. 15 seconds later Pittsburgh's Max Talbot and Philadelphia's Daniel Carcillo fought, presumably at Talbot's "request." Carcillo got the better of Talbot, but the Penguins scored 14 seconds later, then another one 2 minutes later, then the Flyers took a couple of penalties that kept Pittsburgh's momentum going, and finally a late-second period goal tied the game and the Penguins went on to win.
So here's my question: if it's a given that a fight can change the momentum of the game -- and I'm not fully convinced it is; after all, if Talbot got his butt handed to him, why didn't that allow the Flyers to keep the momentum? -- why don't coaches tell their players "if we have the lead, DO NOT FIGHT"? Either the losing team's goon is running around trying to get a fight started and isn't actually playing, which can lead to scoring chances, or he gets so incensed at not getting to fight that he does something that warrants a penalty, putting his team shorthanded. Isn't the idea to win the game, and not worry about all this macho "fighting is a part of hockey" crap? Why take a chance that a fight can allow the other team to get back into the game?
Danny Briere scored on a power play at 4:06 of the second period to give the Flyers a 3-0 lead. 15 seconds later Pittsburgh's Max Talbot and Philadelphia's Daniel Carcillo fought, presumably at Talbot's "request." Carcillo got the better of Talbot, but the Penguins scored 14 seconds later, then another one 2 minutes later, then the Flyers took a couple of penalties that kept Pittsburgh's momentum going, and finally a late-second period goal tied the game and the Penguins went on to win.
So here's my question: if it's a given that a fight can change the momentum of the game -- and I'm not fully convinced it is; after all, if Talbot got his butt handed to him, why didn't that allow the Flyers to keep the momentum? -- why don't coaches tell their players "if we have the lead, DO NOT FIGHT"? Either the losing team's goon is running around trying to get a fight started and isn't actually playing, which can lead to scoring chances, or he gets so incensed at not getting to fight that he does something that warrants a penalty, putting his team shorthanded. Isn't the idea to win the game, and not worry about all this macho "fighting is a part of hockey" crap? Why take a chance that a fight can allow the other team to get back into the game?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.