Haggard faces more gay sex accusations

Mmmmmmmmmm Hmmmmmmmm....

How about the "sterotypical closet" Rev. Haggard? Or is this the discovery of the Haggardsexual?

HBO is premiering a documentary on him this Thursday.

Washington Post Article

After reading more about the latest Haggard revelation, it appears that the upcoming HBO special on him in all likelihood prompted his former church to leak that information. The timing is no coincidence. What interest would it serve them? Haggard resigned and now sells insurance. It's part of a homophobic agenda on their part. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Haggard. He was a hypocrite. But his church is more insidious. It displays not one one iota of what most Christians or other religiously-minded individuals should...charity.

We're right to take Haggard to task, but perhaps somewhere down the road I hope he comes to terms with and accept his homosexuality. The greater enemy to gays and lesbians are the types that still control his church, who preach love and charity, but display neither.

An extensive piece in the Washington Post today on Haggard with some interesting quotes.



This quote concerns me:



Link

If the church is trying to get out in front of this, the content must be in our favor (maybe only slightly and has more to do with the church covering their asses). If this got out just to promote the HBO documentary....we'll have to see. I just hope we're not going down the "ex-gay therapy" is successful road.

Paying the man $100,000 with the condition that he seek therapy may not be "hush money", but it is certainly coersion to not come out as gay.

Oprah is having him on her show tomorrow.

Yes, and I am looking forward to it too.

Still sounds pretty screwed up. He's not gay, not bisexual, he is heterosexual with issues or according to his therapist he is heterosexual with gay attachments. He also says he still feels gay temptations or urges but no longer has the complusion to act on those urges. The wife sounded as if she actually believes that one can simply choose to be gay or straight.

Stupid fool

Yes, Haggard's wife may be foolish, but I don't want to attack her for remaining with him. I'm not an expert, but after reading about Jim McGreevey, Larry Craig, Haggard, and other less-known closeted gay men, I understand that there are a myriad of reasons why wives fail to see their husband's homosexuality and/or choose to remain with them. Is she deluding herself? Of course. Should she be scorned for her choice? I don't think so.

After watching his 1 hour performance yesterday two words come to mind: whata MESS!!!!

To me he sounded like he was trying desperately to reconcile his homosexuality with his version of Christianity. What I heard (paraphrasing) was, "Yes, I have homosexual urges, and I'm okay with that because that's who I am; however, I don't act on those urges because I am holding on to the teachings of my religion with every ounce of strength I can muster."

I think we all, especially those of us who are about Haggard's age, know how this will play out. He'll go through the cycle:

1. I'm really, really hungry for a man, and there's no one around to see. (Shut up, Jesus, I can't hear you right now!)

2. Oh no. I sinned again. I've got to tell Jesus, my wife and my therapist (of questionable credentials).

3. I will never do this again because my faith is stronger for having sinned again.

Six months later he'll repeat the cycle. The next loop will occur two or three months after that. Each time the loop will get shorter until he reaches a point where he'll stop lying to himself and everyone else, and either accept who he is, go quietly mad or commit suicide. I doubt he'll kill himself, but people in crisis...

In any case I think Haggard may turn into the poster boy for the damages done by irrational fundamentalism.

I watched part of the interview and could only shake my head. I thought about myself before I came out, when I was also deluding myself into believing I was not "really" gay and could change. The man is a poster child for the river DE-NIAL, but I can't really hate the guy. He is a pathetic figure who continues to cling to a belief system even though his fellow believers have turned their backs on him. The very "exile" he was forced to accept from his church demonstrates that even his church knows that his sexuality is not a choice - if it were they would not have turned him out so completely.

Boy, are you right, Puschkin! And I'm sure we'll hear about Larry Craig getting caught in another bathroom stall somewhere down the line! What's makes me angry, frustrated, and unforgiving is how the activities of self-loathing, self-denying, closeted, gay men, i.e. tearoom sex, park cruising, and what not, are used by the Religious Right to denigrate homosexuality as perverse, sinful, and wrong. They fail to recognize that their own non-acceptance of gays leads these men to pursue such unfulfilling sexual lives.

I'm not sure I share the desire to vilify the guy or his wife. The label "gay" is a very recent development in our society, along with the rather difficult to define "gay culture." Before these developments, which have not by any means ushered in some sort of utopian paradise for homosexuals, it was probably the norm for men with homosexual urges to handle it the way that Haggard did. It seems that for some men, this is still perhaps the best solution to a difficult dilemma. As Mark Simpson (a gay man) stated in his piece, Let's Be Civil: Gay Marriage Isn't the End of the Rainbow, "there’s something gay people and their friends need to admit to the world: gay and straight long-term relationships are generally not the same." Simpson goes on to enumerate how gay and straight relationships are different, including that "many if not most long term male-male relationships are very open indeed." If a man has homosexual urges, but wants a more traditional, monogamous relationship, and he wants to have and raise children, what's wrong with him making an individual choice to deal with those urges by sublimating them? (In fact, one might argue that such men keep the "gay" genetic line from dying out completely.) I understand hating the hypocrisy of Haggard speaking out against gay rights, but I have to believe that his choices were (and are) not as easy as standing on the sidelines throwing out insults or facilely proposing the, for some, illusory solution of "coming out."

I can see some of your points, SFTom. Gay, and indeed straight, identities are recent developments historically speaking. And individuals, gay or straight, have a variety of arrangements in relationships. But sublimating feelings only produces self-loathing and leads to psychological and physical problems over the long-term. And it's ultimately not fair to a partner to whom you cannot give your whole self.

I just watched the HBO special on Ted Haggard that I recorded a couple of days ago.

I've never been so appalled by Christian behavior in my life. What a bunch of hypocrites! 14,000 members of his church in Colorado, 30 million members of the national body he headed up, and their punishment is to banish Haggard from Colorado (Can they do that?) and forbid him to preach, which is all he knows how to do. What an ordeal he and his family went through. Yeah, these Christians really showed how well they learned their lessons in church. And the stupid SOB didn't kick the lot of them to the curb as he should have as soon as they turned against him, and continues to try to live by their rules.

Pathetic all around.

Puschkin, please do not confuse these hypocrites with true Christians. Sadly, there are many, many people that spout off about how Christian they are, yet their actions tell a far different story. It is actually very difficult to live a true Christian life. I try, but I also fail at times. That's part of the challenge, realizing your own faults and weaknesses. Please do not allow idiots such at Haggard cloud your opinion of Christians. Liars and cheats are not Christians. People who insist upon passing judgement on others are not true Christians. When one usurps God's ultimate authority of judgement, one can no longer claim to be a Christian. Jesus wants us to all live in love, not hate. Ironically, I know Jews that are more Christian than some of these purported "Christians".

Am I the only one who gets the heebie-jeebies when looking @ Haggard's pix?

Gosh that man looks like a child molesting pervert.

I'm well aware of the dangers of stereotyping Christians or any other groups for that matter, but why, oh why, didn't any of the 30 million Evangelicals or any of the 14,000 in his church come forward during that one-and-a-half-year period to say, "Hey, wait a minute. What would Jesus really do?" Never mind what a misguided, pathetic douche bag Haggard seems to be, you don't treat a family that way. It isn't done. Period.

'Ironically, I know Jews that are more Christian than some of these purported "Christians".'

Don't forget that Christianity was initially a movement within Judaism; however, the current forms of Christianity bear little to no resemblance to it thanks to Paul and his successors. It's something I like to remind those who hit us over the head with Leviticus 18:22 yet don't follow the other 612 commandments to the letter claiming that Jesus "erased" the need to follow those, and some of them are just silly.

Thank you for the heaping helping of Catholic guilt regarding the 613 rules (hee-hee, Sunday humor)...same in the Torah as it is in the Shena (I'm misspelling it, my Latin stinks). So often this is forgotten, the virtual sameness of the two religions. As for the "fundies"and Evangelicals, I can't explain their un-Christian behavior. Somehow, they manage to justify their actions, even when they are in direct conflict with the teachings of Jesus. After all, why let a little truth get in the way when you have an agenda to push! Over and over again, Jesus tells us to first of all, love and honor God with all our heart and soul, secondly, to do so to our neighbors. There are no exceptions to this lesson. It is quite clear, repeated many times in plain language, yet the "fundies" who manage to interpret everything else in the Bible in a literal sense, fail to understand this very simple and basic lesson taught by Christ. Some things just make you go "hmmmm".

I'm not following your logic above. What do long-term male same-sex relationships have to do with Ted Haggard's immature denial and failure to accept who he is and what he does, his denunciation of LGBTQ people and his work against gay rights and full civil equality for LGBTQ people, and his serial relationships with various men in his church?

You seem to suggest that there are no monogamous same-sex couples. There are. There are monogamous male-male and male-female couples, just as there are countless "open" male-female couples. Yes, that's right, they're not all monogamous, just as all same-sex relationships aren't open. If they are, that's up to the couple, and more power to them. Relationships aren't static, and where people--two men, two women, a man and a woman, a trio, etc.--may be at one point in their relationship may differ later on in the relationship. We all grow, change, evolve.

Also, a same-sex couple can have and raise children. Thousands do, and more are doing so every day.

The issue is not *monogamy* and *individual choice* and this abstract *gay culture,* it's Ted Haggard's cowardice, his lying, his and his fake-Christian church's inability to come to terms with who he is and what he does. If they don't like homosexuality or same-sex activity, don't engage in it. But don't get on the bandwagon of trying to deny me or anyone else equal rights in this country. And don't hold yourself up as high and mighty and talk about "family values" and "marriage" and "love" when you don't and can't demonstrate any of it.

(BTW: the "gay genetic gene" is likely passed on by the woman, and may be associated with greater fertility in the woman's family line.)

fantomas, thanks for covering that subject because it was stuck in my craw. I've been in a 24 year monogomous relationship (or it will be in three months). But that has nothing to do with the Ted Haggards of the world in my opinion.

Here's my logic: individual struggles with sexuality and religion are very complex and nuanced. You fail to appreciate that when you demonize someone you don't know and assuming the stance of a victim. Moreover, while you breeze right past them or imply that they are meaningless by putting quotation marks around them, issues of monogamy, individual choice, commitment, the raising of children, and the differences between gay and straight relationships are central here. The gay community ignores these facts at its own peril, and at the risk of further Proposition 8-type experiences.

Are you blaming gay people for Proposition 8? The problem isn't gay people, it's anti-gay homophobes and heterosexists.

Ted Haggard and his ilk should appreciate your statement that "when you demonize someone you don't know..." because they're the ones who demonize gays. Most gay people would accept his failings, but for the fact that he can't even accept himself or love himself, and spent years making money and gaining power off of condemning and demonizing us, like so many of these other fake-Christians (cf. Rick Warren).

I don't "breeze right past" anyone, but I do see a lot of hypocrites out there, who use their bully pulpits to destroy people's lives. Think of all the gay people who joyously married and now have that beautiful moment destroyed because some creeps from the Mormon, Catholic and evangelical Protestant faiths decide that they want to impose their false morality on others. People who don't even live in California. Who's to blame with that? Gay people or the horrible fake-Christians who deny others their equal rights under the state and God? Does that sound Christian to you? Did Haggard?

Yes, I know sexuality is complex and people struggle with their desires. But that doesn't absolve Haggard. He's an adult and needs to take responsibility for his actions, just as his church does. If he were a true Christian, he would have admitted what he'd done and not gone out harming the lives of others. Think of all the children who kill themselves or are thrown out of their homes or become estranged from their parents just based on who they intrinsically are. Think of all the people in loveless, unhappy hetero marriages who would love to love someone of the same sex openly but have their consciousnesses warped by false-religion. Think of all the people who would like to marry or just LIVE IN PEACE but have to deal with violence of all kinds, from words to attacks to laws, against them, because of who they are. Who's at fault in all these cases? NOT GAY PEOPLE.