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sportinlife
She has become as big a "draw" as the president on her tours of the halls of power. What will her roll as a "modern" first lady mean for future women who hold that office?

Will she set the standard for the "first dude"?

I always thought Hillary deliberately hid her light a little so as not to outshine Bill Clinton. Michelle seems to have no fear of that with Barack.

So is Barack Obama more tolerant or was Bill Clinton less confident? Or is this just a sign of "change" we didn't quite expect?

Harvard law professor Charles Ogletree, who taught both Michelle and Barack has frequently said that he expected Michelle to become a senator and even joked on The Daily Show that he thought her becoming president was more likely than Obama achieving that office.

Personally I don't think any African-American who was the descendant of slaves was likely to become president before Obama. That aspect of his "biography" is still unusual and was critical for his success IMHO.
Puschkin
QUOTE(sportinlife @ Feb 8 2009, 02:35 PM) *

Personally I don't think any African-American who was the descendant of slaves was likely to become president before Obama.

Really? Why not?
sportinlife
QUOTE(Puschkin @ Feb 8 2009, 12:00 PM) *
Really? Why not?
Because I think it statistically unlikely that a black person with slave ancestors would have Obama's patience and humility or would have climbed to a position to make a serious bid for the presidency, and developed the inclusive attitude that he has toward the two races, African and European-American, necessary to persuade enough Americans in both groups that he shares their views.

I know there are unique political circumstances (two wars and the sudden recent contraction of the markets being the most prominent) that contributed to Obama's success, but none of the "Breadkthrough" politicians, such as those discussed Gwen Ifill's book, hade the unusual and relevant life story to make the kind of breakthrough Barack Obama managed. His biography distanced him from the history that is still both unsettled and unsettling in most of our minds - black or white.

Should Michelle Obama seek a career in politics she too will crash headlong into that turbulent water. Ia sense she has. The generational difference between today's Americans and those of past presidential contenders is not as vast as we may think. One only has to observe ongoing self-segregation, the success of covert uses of racism (which very nearly derailed Barack Obama's campaign), and the MSM's denial of retail racism which is highlighted by the differing effects of the current slump in the two communities.

Ignoring that difference may be politically correct for now but what if it reaches the comfortable middle class?
millerbeach
Sportinlife, I see your point of view, but isn't that selling a race a bit short? Who are we to know how someone else may have fared in the race. Too many variables out there for an accurate assessment. I fully understand where you are coming from in regards to the burden of slave ancestory, but surely others have overcome that issue. Funny little story involving my neighbor and Obama. I applied for a job with Obama, almost on a lark. I have not heard back, still waiting! The point is, I mentioned this to my neighbor. She happens to be African-American. We are very, very good friends, and have been since becoming neighbors almost eight years ago. We know each other very well. She has been out of work, and I suggested she apply. She has been a big supporter of his, also got to see him when he visited Wicker Park in Highland, IN. (She was about 20 feet away from him and took some great pics). When I asked her to try and apply, she said no, she couldn't. I asked why. She said she felt too ashamed, being a child born out of wedlock to a teenage mother, and her father died of AIDS. She said her past would preclude her from employment in the Obama administration, because of her percieved "chekered" background. She also said she is of mixed race, which would further complicate things. I told her Obama is mixed-race too, also with a non-typical parental arrangement during his childhood ! I was shocked at her response. Here is someone I have known for quite some time, having shared other intimate details of our lives, yet I had no idea she was carrying such a burden. It reminds me of the old saying, be nice to everyone...you have no idea of the burden they may bear. To me Obama represents everything that is right about this nation. Someone of a different upbringing, different heritage CAN make it to the highest office in the land. His victory proved it really is possible. As Michelle Obama said, I have never been more proud to be an American.
sportinlife
Thank you for that story millerbeach. It does not surprise me in the least; though I am not surprised that it seemed to shock you. You have to remember that racism is imbibed and imbeded in black culture in the USA. That is perpetuated by the many who - unlike you apparently - have become immune to its harshness or (and this I am afraid is still quite common) take advantage of it to continue to shame blacks in to not taking advantage of what opportunities may present themselves. I could tell you many stories but will settle on one that is quite personal to me: My father who is a Korean War veteran carries health insurance that costs him about $1000 per quarter. I had always assumed he carried it for my mother who is ill with diabetes and requires more care than the average 78 year old. Only recently did I learn that he was no longer able to do the supplemental work he does (farm labor for older white widows with property they could no longer manage, selling strawberries and other garden crops he raises in a garden behind the house, etc.) to augment the social security benefits that they have depended on for food and utilities for several years. When asked why they did not get veterans benefits for their healthcare he responded that he was required to go much further from home to visit the doctors who would provide veteran's care. And I found out through my own research that living spouses of living veterans who are not career military do not qualify for healthcare or nursing home care at all. In fact I do not believe these spouses qualify for much of anything. For my father to benefit from the nursing home care he would have to be separated from my ill mother. As I see it, for her to be placed in a nursing home she would have to be separated from him. This could be the death of either, saving us taxpayers money in the short run but contributing to a declining economy overall. Benefits for the aged is one thing that economists have estimated was most efficient in contributing to the moderate success of the Japanese recovery plans and others. The retired tend to spend rather than to save.
millerbeach
Sportinlife, I hope things improve for your father. It is shameful how this nation treats its elderly, especially elderly veterans. Hopefully, Obama will address these issues.
Puschkin
QUOTE(sportinlife @ Feb 8 2009, 06:50 PM) *

Because I think it statistically unlikely that a black person with slave ancestors would have Obama's patience and humility or would have climbed to a position to make a serious bid for the presidency, and developed the inclusive attitude that he has toward the two races, African and European-American, necessary to persuade enough Americans in both groups that he shares their views.

Do you see Obama's patience, humility and inclusive attitude to be the result of his non-US black background, or could it be that he has those traits because he is biracial?

As an aside, Sportinlife, I wish all the best for your parents. The way we treat people in need in this country is truly disgraceful.
sportinlife
QUOTE(millerbeach @ Feb 10 2009, 12:26 AM) *
Sportinlife, I hope things improve for your father. It is shameful how this nation treats its elderly, especially elderly veterans. Hopefully, Obama will address these issues.
Though that is true mb, I am more concerned about the fact that it may be less economically sound to give tax cuts to large businesses than to social programs, which assist people who will spend direct subsidies or consume resources supplied by someone elses spending (making those recipients better risks for tax-payer expenditures than, say, banks or large investors who do not need to spend the money; or at least do not need to spend it quickly or efficiently in order to profit).

They are even more efficient than giving tax breaks to the comfortable middle class that would save it for retirement or invest it in the same "market" that has allowed the current debacle.
QUOTE(Puschkin @ Feb 10 2009, 10:30 AM) *
Do you see Obama's patience, humility and inclusive attitude to be the result of his non-US black background, or could it be that he has those traits because he is biracial?
One can not speak of direct cause-and-effect when discussing such immeasurable quantities as "patience" and "humility". When I say that Obama's lack of slave ancestry in the USA makes it easier for him to develop and express these characteristics I am merely making a personal observation and expressing a personal opinion as someone who has lived his life with the knowledge that his ancestors were enslaved by the ancestors of his fellow countrymen and women. I attended high school with someone who was white and female who shared my surname. My own research brought the two of us together again when I found her on the internet. I liked her then as much as I do now. She was surprised. I was not at all.
Puschkin
I don't know, Sportinlife. As I've mentioned in other posts, I'm biracial, and I've got the slave cred. My great grandmother (born: 1860, died: 1953) was born a slave. Nevertheless since neither I nor anyone else can undo history, I've decided to get over it. I learned that attitude from my holocaust survivor mom who doesn't bear today's Germans any malice. No American white person living today has owned slaves. No American black person living today has been a slave. If we continue to dwell on the past, we'll never get anywhere.
millerbeach
Agreed, Puschkin, but there are plenty of black Americans who still have trouble catching a taxi. Those issues are very real, and very much alive today.
sportinlife
This very interesting article about Bayard Rustin speaks volumes about the historical difficulty of being an African-American activist in the USA.

I don't think that Michelle Obama's status as first lady - or former first lady - will insulate her from those difficulties, even in this day and age.
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