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SCTrojan
Well @ least this is a step, albeit a small one, in the right direction. More details to come.
boomer400
Whoop-dee-f**kin-doo. I'm sorry, but when you make solemn promises to overturn DOMA, end Don't Ask Don't Tell, and pass ENDA, this kind of stuff doesn't cut it.

Plus, it's not all federal employees. I'm guessing that members of the military will not be lining up to take advantage of this policy change.
SCTrojan
You're absolutely right!
HornFan
As a fed with a partner who is unemployed and COBRA insurance expiring this month, I'm very happy. This is truly a godsend for us.

Obama has been in office for 6 months with an economy hitting rock bottom and two wars, so my expectations concerning gay rights have not been as high as others apparently. At least there's still hope for ending DOMA, DADT and passage of ENDA with the current administration.....the alternative would have have gotten us exactly nothing. He needs the help of Congress for the big stuff.
SCTrojan
Good to hear that...

I, too, am patiently willing--still--to judge his administration @ least by 2012...We'll see...
HornFan
Never forget "believe it when I see it". The NYT has used this wording

QUOTE
While he will announce a list of benefits, officials said, they are not expected to include broad health insurance coverage, which could require legislation to achieve.
unsure.gif
SCTrojan
& then there's this from the updated article:

QUOTE
Instead, Obama will use his signature instead of legislation to achieve the benefits parity sought by same-sex couples.
mdterp01
Hmmm..well its more than Bush would have done. So I think people need to take a chill pill and allow the guy more than 6 months in office before they expect sweeping change. Someone wrote and I totally agree that the guy was given the keys to the Titanic after it hit the iceberg and with the ship half submerged. He is certainly open to criticism and I have questions about the plans he has for the country. But I voted for him for a reason and am going to have faith that in the end he will come through. Even when Bush became President in 2000 I waited a good while before really criticizing his administration.
fantomas
QUOTE(mdterp01 @ Jun 17 2009, 05:03 AM) *

Hmmm..well its more than Bush would have done. So I think people need to take a chill pill and allow the guy more than 6 months in office before they expect sweeping change. Someone wrote and I totally agree that the guy was given the keys to the Titanic after it hit the iceberg and with the ship half submerged. He is certainly open to criticism and I have questions about the plans he has for the country. But I voted for him for a reason and am going to have faith that in the end he will come through. Even when Bush became President in 2000 I waited a good while before really criticizing his administration.


No chill pill here. There was no reason for his Justice Department to argue so aggressively for DOMA, even going so far as to compare same-sex marriages to incest, nor did he have to continue the policy of forcing out gay translators of Arabic. He could have challenged DOMA and with his pen stopped the dismissal of gay people in the military pending a review. Instead he has chosen to kick gay people in the ass repeatedly, and now he throws out this scrap. I'm sorry, but this isn't the change I voted for. Sure he's got a lot on his plate, but he is mirroring Bush a bit too much for my tastes. On the other hand, I did say to my partner that I thought he might be Clintonesque in some key ways, and he's proving that he's more than up to the challenge. Preventive detentions, support of warrantless spying on Americans' phone conversations and emails, the flipflopping on Gitmo, the constant lack of transparency concerning the financial cleanup, the continued funding of the war in Iraq and the buildup in Afghanistan, the attempts to protect the Bush administration's crimes and now the attempts to hide the visitor logs, just as Bush did, etc.--this is not the change I voted for. Maybe it's cool with others, but we might as well have put a moderate Republican in office and be done with it.
mdterp01
Well I respect your feelings about that fantomas. The issues with national security I am still chalking up to there are things that President Obama now sees that candidate Obama did not. Still...I am disappointed with certain things. I wonder if my mind would change if I had access to the briefings and documentation that he sees. I mean I think the Iraq war was a mistake to begin with and now I think its not as simple as take the troops out. Again, a mess he has to try and resolve the best way possible.

As for the gay issues...I mean perhaps this doesn't bother me so much because I'm not someone who personally cares about getting married. I think much of it has to do with the financial security that I already have so I don't need added tax benefits and this and that. Our families are so supportive of each other, my boyfriend and I are each other's power of attorneys. But, because there are gay friends of ours who are very much affected by this and deeply care about marriage equality, I certainly favor it for their sake. I guess one could flip the script on me and say well what if in the 50s I had a friend who said they didn't personally care about blacks having the same rights as whites then how would I feel? (even though I don't like the comparison of the gay rights movement to the civil rights movement). But I would see the point they were trying to make. I don't know. I know the list of things I'm concerned about and marriage equality is not even in the top 5.
CPT_Doom
The issue with the Obama administration, and the Dems in general, is not a marriage-only issue; it is an issue of basic fairness. I get that Obama cannot enact legislation on his own, or overturn DOMA or DADT, not to mention getting ENDA or hate crimes or the Uniting American Families Act through - he needs Congress to accomplish those. But the President is supposed to set the agenda, particularly when his own party is in power, and we have seen a complete lack of leadership from Obama on LGBT issues.

We allegedly are an important constituency in the Democratic Party, but can you imagine any other constituency of the Party being treated this shabbily? The ONLY statements about LGBT rights we have gotten from Obama, et. al were two jokes - one explicitly poking fun at the Iowa marriage decision - a Gay Pride proclamation, and the defense of DOMA (which could have been written by Pat Robertson). Is that being a "fierce advocate" for LGBT rights? Where are the symbolic touches that are so important to the Presidency? Where is the lesbian couple struggling with debt used to illustrate the economic issues the entire country is facing? Where is the commemoration of Stonewall 40 - the visit that Obama is making to an imporant location in gay rights (can you imagine Obama ignoring a similar anniversary, say, for the March on Selma?)? Where are the talks to LGBT groups by Obama or his wife - hell, we only get VP Biden for the damn fundraiser next week, and that is just another ATM withdrawl by the Democrats.

Even more troubling is that the defense of DOMA brief outlines the exact legal "logic" used to deny LGBT citizens all rights - not just marriage. Hell, if that brief were followed, we would lose employment protections, the right to visit partners in hospitals - basically everything.

What I see, unfortunately, is an administration so scared of f*cking up the enormous good will with which Obama entered office that they are willing to sacrifice a constituency that they see as unimportant - we have nowhere else to go, right? What they don't see is how damaging that is to the President.

The funny thing is that we are the only group that Obama did worse than Kerry with - 27% of the LGBT vote went to McCain, so we were already wary of the guy. This is not helping - in fact I would argue Obama is in the process of destroying - not just damaging, but eliminating - his support in the LGBT community. And the only way we can respond is to do what we are doing - cutting off the funding spigot.

I have already returned my annual DNC renewal form with a $0 contribution and a note that my wallet might reopen if the Dems change their tune. I have unsubscribed from their mailing lists (as did quite a few people, from what I understand - yesterday was not the day to ask for $$) and informed the administration that they don't need to contact me about any of their big issues. If they don't need to respect me and my community, they must feel they can get their agenda passed without us, and I am more than willing to let them do that. I also intend to participate in whatever protest occurs next week at the DNC fundraiser. We cannot sit by while our dollars are sucked into this political machine that uses us as lubricant.
SCTrojan
That's 1 of the reasons why I became a Green Party Member a while back. I was fed up w/ the Dems--too many promises, very lil accomplished for us. As for Obama, I still stick to my original post, in 2012 I'll assess him & his adminsitration. For now I simply wait frustratedly patient. dry.gif
boomer400
Nice post, CPT.
fantomas
CPT's post was great.

I'd only add that the Congressional Democrats remain as spineless as they ever were, on gay rights and everything else. It's as if they're stuck in 1992 and 2002. They not only have a majority in both the Senate and House, but will probably increase both (as they'll certainly get Franken seated, and likely hold onto all their seats in the next election while winning a few more seats in the Senate, like in Missouri, possibly Kentucky, and very likely now in Nevada). Yet they stay stuck in the most cautious mode possible.

Like I said, it's shades of 1992 alongside 2002, and it's not good either for them or the country. The sad thing is that there's no other real option at the federal level. The GOP is daily proving itself a coven of nutcases, racists, sexists, homophobes, and what have you, and no other party is viable now. So what do we do? I'm also sitting on my wallet, writing letters, emails and faxes, and getting involved with every organization that will force the Democrats and our president and his administration to fulfill their promises and make this country better.
Dan85
Looking south of the border, I can't help but shake my head here and feel glad that I live in Canada (despite the fact that in my particular province the last premier said that gay marriage would happen "over his dead body" - it happened anyway).

For a country that is purportedly the freest in the world, American citizens and government seem awfully concerned about what everyone else does. Seriously, the extent to which this effects anyone aside from those who are themselves gay is so negligible as to be non-existent. Lets look at this from a different perspective. Recently there has been a lot of attention given to smoking bans. I think they are crap. If I don't want to be exposed to smoke, I can choose not to patronize establishments that permit smoking -i do admit that the health and safety argument for workers is a little more valid. Although I am personally not in favor of anti-tobacco legislation, it arguably this has much more of an effect on people who don't smoke than gay marriage does on people who are not gay.

Using my own country as an example, I would be hard-pressed to think of anyone in Canada who gives the issue a second thought now. Not that this clip is any sort of proof, but it sorta illustrates a point somewhat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z08DWTOW8s

...Two years after the fact what ignited extreme debate barely elicits a whisper.

The Dems at the moment have an unparalleled amount of goodwill and Obama seems hell bent on maintaining it. Thing is, if gay marriage is legalized it'll probably have little-to-no impact on future elections. Like it or not, gay rights are a fringe issue and so long as the democrats can put together a halfway competent campaign (ok, doubtful) they will be ok. By dragging his feet on gay rights, Obama risks having the conversation current when Americans next go to the polls.

I find it inconceivable that Obama and his advisers are fundamentally unaware of the public attention span. They must know that the best time to introduce potentially divisive legislation would be at the beginning of an administration, especially when that legislation can be calculated to have little impact down the road... If Obama planned to act the time to do it would be now not later. Why have the issue in the spotlight for mid-term elections?

Because I don't personally believe that the administration is so dumb that it would be unaware of timing considerations, I am forced to believe that it has no intent to address these issues during this term at all.
mdterp01
Good point about getting things pushed through early on in the administration. Thats when a lot of political pundits said would be the best time to make the push for healthcare reform and the like. Definitely disappointing but I have faith he will come through with at least meeting some of these issues. Sorry but no politician who wants to get elected is ever going to support gay marriage right now. Still too much of a religious divisive issue.
SCTrojan
The US Green Party's Ten Key Values.

QUOTE
8. RESPECT FOR DIVERSITY
We believe it is important to value cultural, ethnic, racial, sexual, religious and spiritual diversity, and to promote the development of respectful relationships across these lines...
mdterp01
QUOTE(CPT_Doom @ Jun 17 2009, 03:50 PM) *

The funny thing is that we are the only group that Obama did worse than Kerry with - 27% of the LGBT vote went to McCain, so we were already wary of the guy. This is not helping - in fact I would argue Obama is in the process of destroying - not just damaging, but eliminating - his support in the LGBT community. And the only way we can respond is to do what we are doing - cutting off the funding spigot.


Yes I'm still curious about that drop in LGBT vote with Obama. I haven't seen any articles that really talked about it, but its funny that seniors and gays were the two categories that Obama underperformed. It has to be more than just being "wary" of him given the 8 years we had. More wary to go and support McCain with that sidekick Palin? Hmmm...thats scary. So why did he not have the support Kerry did? He's certainly been more vocally supportive and now with the extension of health benefits than any Republican so if gays want to bite off their noses to spite their face do ya really think anything is going to get done soon? Look how long it took African Americans to stick with one party to get certain rights approved.

Instead of relying soley on the president (because I do believe that gay advocates should still be diggin in his ass for equal rights), what the big gay organizations need to start doing is building their support in the same way that Obama was successful in doing. As a gay man of color I haven't really felt a part of the gay rights struggle. So maybe thats why its nowhere near the top of my priority list for Obama to push through that kind of legislation. People were so outraged and many people's true racism came to light when the exit polls showed blacks voting overwhelmingly for prop 8 (even though thats been dispelled that it was solely us who was responsible for its passage...but ya know with all the numbers out there somehow we got the lion's share of the blame rolleyes.gif ). That shit with blacks who WERE out there to support No to Prop 8 being called the 'N' word certainly didn't help the gay cause amongst generally conservative blacks.

So how about gay organizations looking in the mirror about how they seem to shape this struggle as a movement that seems to be about white gays. A part of me didn't feel sorry for their outrage after Prop 8 passed because there wasn't much outreach to the black community and you are telling me that you couldn't find one black gay couple from California to put in advertisements??? You need to build a coalition before getting something like this passed. Not reaching out to younger blacks latinos (and not the latinos who think they are white...I'm talking about ethnic latinos) who are certainly more open minded than older blacks/latinos, and the black/latino as a whole about this issue should be a start. I know by simple conversation and dialogue I have single handedly changed the minds that many people have felt about gay men....that its not all about sex and clubbing and men in chaps and drag at gay pride. Sorry but thats what most of them think and I don't see many of the main gay organizations doing much to dispel that through outreach.

In addition, (since its not like many gay activists don't use people for their own gain as well) send out black supporters to meet with black clergy and leaders who may be willing to help join the cause. I think you'll find there are many out there who would be supportive, but who exactly has attempted outreach to them?

Its gonna take time and most of the country is still not ready for this kind of change. Small steps yes...but steps nonetheless. Obama definitely needs to be more vocal about DADT since Congress does have to change law to get many of these things approved. Its not just Obama, but I agree since he is the President he needs to be more vocal about supporting these issues since he sets the agenda. Because his election is so historic, I feel as though he does need to push strongly for this under his watch. Its getting better but its still going to take some more time.
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Newsweek has an article entitled "Can Obama Win Back the Gay Community?" So he's lost the entire gay community like that. What has he done differently that other Democratic politicians have it that now suddenly Obama has lost the gay community? Hmm. Well anyway...here is a comment from someone who posted on the aforementioned Newsweek article that I agree 100% with.


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Obama will not be stupid enough to repeal DOMA and DADT during his first term in office. We couldn't win the gay marriage vote in a relatively liberal state like California. As President, he is representing Mississippi and Kansas, too. Gay and lesbians who are advocating that he swiftly make changes don't care about the rest of us. They'll just push the country toward Republican rule. There are people posting on this board right now that abortion and homosexuality are wrong, and they actually expect for you gay fools to get in bed with them. We like to compare our rights with those of racial minorities. Many racial minorities can't comprehend the similarities. Partly because of homophobia and partly because they really do not see the similarity. As a gay person of color, I'll tell you that I don't get it either. And many (almost all) gays and lesbians are closed to any type of conversation regarding racial discrimination, but will use it in their arguments. I even feel used. The only thing that is similar is the discrimination. Until it is proven that sexual orientation is biological, it is different. (Of course I think there is a biologically component.) Further, racial minorities didn't win right rights away. The fight for the rights of African Americans and other racial minorities started more than 100 years before they received any rights. And it is usually the courts who grant the rights. Unfortunately, the courts have left us extremely vulnerable to the will of the majority.
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Each year that passes by I see more and more support for gay rights so I'm hopeful that we are at least moving in the right direction.
sportinlife
I'm actually very optimistic about the future of gay rights, despite Obama's political reticence and ideological shortcomings.

I think it is unlikely, in the current political environment, that a vicious homophobe or a regressive (on human rights) will gain a position of decisive social influence, in any party or as an independent, in the near future, barring the evolution of some new horrid characteristic peculiar only to gay people.
SCTrojan
All great posts & lots of stuff to chew on. May need some time to respond to some of your posts...

Btw, I get the outrage...
fenwayguy
Some funny-but-serious (i.e. dishy) remarks on the subject by a favorite local blogger. (Hide your eyes from the unfortunate banner.)

QUOTE
According to administration officials, "the timing of the announcement was intended to help contain the growing furor among gay rights groups. Several gay donors withdrew their sponsorship of a Democratic National Committee fund-raising event next week."

Hmmm. Well, the good news is that obviously this means the President will be gay for pay. Just how gay is the question. If he's gonna turn out to be just another str8 cocktease who thinks we're going to keep buying him drinks when he never puts out, he'll find himself alone at the bar, nibbling on his maraschino cherry and chewing ice all night.

On the other hand, if you go around posing as a prostitute and then gay-bashing and robbing your johns, well, word gets around. Trust me, Mr. President, you don't want that kind of reputation.

- Obama: Gay For Pay?, Mike Mennonno, 6/17/2009
BigBlueCowboy
This does not extend health benefits. Yes, he's stepping in the right direction, but Obama does not want to get involved in so-called "Culture Wars." Interesting article here:
Outcry from Gay and Lesbian Activists

Step up to the plate, Mr. President! Do away with "Don't Ask, Don't Tell!" And fight for the repeal of the "DOM Act!" They are insulting and discriminatory to me as an American.

mdterp01
Are unmarried heterosexuals who have been together for a long time extended these same benefits? I'm not saying anything about right or wrong...I'm just wondering if the "common law" thing eventually applies to them or not. I'm kind of ignorant on some of this. Common law marriage doesn't even apply to every state does it?
SCTrojan
QUOTE(BigBlueCowboy @ Jun 18 2009, 10:37 AM) *

This does not extend health benefits.


Yeah, yesterday the article I linked had 2 small paragraphs w/ very lil details. Later in the evening it became a full-on article. After reading it & other articles, yep!, it falls short of what it seemed to originally imply. Disappointing to say the least.

QUOTE(BigBlueCowboy @ Jun 18 2009, 10:37 AM) *

...Obama does not want to get involved in so-called "Culture Wars."


That's what it basically boils down to. As much as I'd want to have him throw the finger @ the conservatives (& even some moderates) in this country about the issues that are dear to our community, the bottom line is that he would get a MAJOR outcry from those who oppose our causes. Sad to say but--nationally--we still haven''t convinced the majority in this country about supporting our rights. Obama truly is in a quagmire: tons of promises to the lgbt community & the risk of a serious backlash. He should have never made his promises. My only thought @ this pt is that him & his administration are hoping that the economy starts turning around w/in the next year or so & that when people are in a "better mood" perhaps he/they may follow thru w/ his/their promises...Who really knows what they're strategizing, if @ all.
boomer400
QUOTE(mdterp01 @ Jun 18 2009, 01:30 AM) *

Its gonna take time and most of the country is still not ready for this kind of change. Small steps yes...but steps nonetheless.

For gay marriage, sure. For almost everything else, bullsh*t. ~70% of Americans support the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell. Even more support a law that would ban job discrimination against gay people. These are not risky policy changes that will piss a lot of people off. Obama either doesn't care or he doesn't really believe that we deserve equal rights. The same goes for Democrats in Congress. Are national Republicans worse? Sure. Am I surprised at the current situation? Not particularly. But that doesn't mean we can't be pissed off when our supposed "fierce advocate" flops so badly.
mdterp01
Now thats true re: DADT. My post was specific to gay marriage. Seriously....why not end DADT. It is idiotic and definitely deserves outrage pointed toward him since he promised it was something he would do. He will take heat from Republicans and some military people but seriously....a gay person not having equal rights under the law still wanting to defend the country he or she lives and being denied even that seems dumb as hell. So absolutely with you on his cowardness when it comes to DADT. Marriage is a whole other issue.

I still believe that Obama is picking his battles right now. There's a lot of crap going on re: economy and national security. These culture issues are something that he may not want to also add to the pot right now. Granted, this is what I'm hoping. If by the end of the year there's been no move on DADT, the money pot from me and mine (which has been MORE than generous to the Obama campaign) will be drying up. I'm not going to get on his back re: marriage because he stated from the beginning he wasn't going to do anything about that. But, backtracking on DADT is shady.
fantomas
QUOTE(boomer400 @ Jun 19 2009, 01:40 AM) *

For gay marriage, sure. For almost everything else, bullsh*t. ~70% of Americans support the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell. Even more support a law that would ban job discrimination against gay people. These are not risky policy changes that will piss a lot of people off. Obama either doesn't care or he doesn't really believe that we deserve equal rights. The same goes for Democrats in Congress. Are national Republicans worse? Sure. Am I surprised at the current situation? Not particularly. But that doesn't mean we can't be pissed off when our supposed "fierce advocate" flops so badly.


Actually, I think both he and *most* of the Democrats "care." But they're scared. Why, I don't know. It's not like Mississippi and Texas determine federal or Congressional electoral outcomes any more. But the Democrats are still stuck in 1994. I keep hearing that they want to "avoid Clinton's misstakes," but letting extremists' views on gay issues determine the president's and Congress's fortunes is ridiculous. The GOP keeps losing credibility every single day. Look at the viciously racist attacks on Judge Sonia Sotomayor. Look at the racist attacks on the President and Mrs. Obama. Look at the the gross hypocrisy of Promise Keeper and marriage defender John Ensign. He not only slammed Bill Clinton but Larry Craig! And he may not have had just one affair but multiple ones! It's disgusting, and the American people see through this crap. So the Democrats and Obama need to lose the fear.
Dan85
Part of being a leader is doing what is necessary or right for the country even if the decision to do so is unpopular.

Short of allowing gay marriage, I don't see repealing DADT or a full extension of health benefits being the decisive factor in the next election. Not every decision a president makes is going to be popular with the majority nor should it be. Rather, the president's record will be weighed as a whole come election time. It is a sign of cowardice that Obama is not willing to fulfill his promises.
sportinlife
I'd like to send a letter to all congressmen, both Senate and House, and the President with the following message:

"As your employer I am instituting a one-year experimental policy which cancels all health and retirement benefits to you and your dependents. Alternatively you may choose to be temporarily replaced for that year by a contract employee who has to find his or her own benefits on the open market while working at a salary that is 5% greater than yours.

This edict will be instituted by you immediately upon penalty of dismissal for arbitrary reasons not related to your work performance (though it will be made to appear that you violated company policy, and a randomly chosen state and federal law, to any inquiring employer who wants to hire you and to the unemployment compensation authorities in your state as well as the federal government) thereby losing all benefits and your job and the right to COBRA or unemployment benefits.

Do not reply to this message. I have the law on my side.

Thank you for your continued good service. PS - Anyone who goes broke will be assumed un-reemployable."

I might add that those Democrats in the Senate who oppose a public health option will be branded with stars.
SCTrojan
Me likes this very poignant article. It addresses the many issues we've been discussing here.
hockeyTom
My sincere hope is that the get togther at the White House tomorrow afternoon has maybe some kind, any kind of a surprise announcement, or something along the lines of a surprise announcement on anything related to issues that affect us...the ball tomorrow will be in President Obamas court so to speak. Interesting read, the link provided and I too read another political comment along the exact same theme. MY hunch is that Obama is ever mindful of what happened to Clinton back early in his young Presidency, and I will remain cautiously optimistic about what we can and may expect from this President. I will say that I really appreicate the posting of civil rights for gays and lezbians which are listed under the list of issues that he wants to tackle on the White House website; www.whitehouse.gov . One sure couldn't say anything like this was listed under any issues G.W. was going to take on. Its a start, but actions will speak louder than words. smile.gif
SCTrojan
I'm w/ ya hT!
sportinlife
Good to see the senate address "sexual orientation" in the expansion of the hate crimes bill.

For some public safety is also a "health" issue.

Just saw Rivers Wash Over Me at the Philly QFest today and, though the acting may have been spotty, the message was powerful.
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