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millerbeach
kick...ROTFLMAO. I thought the same thing...at least she's not "showing"...LOL Who knows...maybe one of them will do it the legal and moral way and JUST SAY NO to pre-marital sex. After all, we all know how well that phrase works in the Palin family....you betcha! laugh.gif
canmark
Hmmm... seems that Miss Sarah thinks that Paul Revere warned the... British? rolleyes.gif laugh.gif

QUOTE
"He who warned, uh... the British that they weren't gonna be takin' away our arms by ringing those bells and, um, makin' sure as he's riding his horse through town to send those warning shots and bells that, uh, we were gonna be secure and we were gonna be free."
Crew Chief
Can't she just go away? And what IS this fascination with all things Sarah Palin?!? blink.gif

Now if the fascination was over TODD Palin, well...that's a different story. biggrin.gif
SeaCraig
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 3 2011, 07:43 PM) *

Can't she just go away? And what IS this fascination with all things Sarah Palin?!? blink.gif

Now if the fascination was over TODD Palin, well...that's a different story. biggrin.gif
She represents all that the Republican right wing conservative tea party people believe in!
Crew Chief
I don't think so, because I know many people who call themselves conservative Republicans who think she should just go away.
canmark
Miss Sarah says, "I know my American history" and blames the lamestream media for their "gotcha" journalism. rolleyes.gif
BoSoxRudy
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 4 2011, 07:59 AM) *

I don't think so, because I know many people who call themselves conservative Republicans who think she should just go away.

Anybody can call himself a conservative Republican. George W. Bush was a self-proclaimed (compassionate) conservative, yet he created the biggest Federal Government entitlement program since the 1960s. Mitt Romney calls himself a conservative, yet he supports the multibillion dollar Federal Government subsidies of ethanol and believes in anthropogenic global warming. Chris Christie is supposed to be a conservative (or so the entire Establishment GOP keeps saying), yet he supports the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (a transfer-of-wealth scheme similar to Cap & Trade), strict gun control, and amnesty for illegal immigrants.

Chris Christie has gone out of his way on more than a few occasions to attack Sarah Palin, just as so many faux-conservatives have. Faux conservatives are almost as obsessed with the supposedly irrelevant Sarah Palin as liberals are. The common thread is that faux-conservatives are every bit as addicted to Big Government and its rapacious spending as liberals are.

The 2012 campaign is still in its infancy, but I'm guessing that the likes of Mitt Romney and Chris Christie will start to criticize or at least bristle against the Tea Party. I rarely have a good word to say about liberals, but I'll grant them this: when they pound the table for more taxes, more programs, and more government control, at least they're being honest. The specious faux-conservatism of Mitt Romney, Chris Christie, Newt Gingrich et al (the list is quite literally endless) advocates spending our nation to destruction, all while the faux-conservatives rail against liberals and Democrats for their wanton spending.
sportinlife
QUOTE(BoSoxRudy @ Jun 5 2011, 06:25 PM) *
The specious faux-conservatism of Mitt Romney, Chris Christie, Newt Gingrich et al (the list is quite literally endless) advocates spending our nation to destruction, all while the faux-conservatives rail against liberals and Democrats for their wanton spending.
It's not how much is spent but how much and by whom. The nation's wealth is being spent right now on luxuries for the wealthy using income pirated through securities in the financial market. These will never stimulate the USA domestic economy. You are complaining about the wrong expenditures.

Our financial crisis is a privately-created and privately-funded one. Not a public one. Reducing public expenditures to zero will only make the matter uncontrollably worst.
SeaCraig
QUOTE(sportinlife @ Jun 6 2011, 05:09 AM) *

It's not how much is spent but how much and by whom. The nation's wealth is being spent right now on luxuries for the wealthy using income pirated through securities in the financial market. These will never stimulate the USA domestic economy. You are complaining about the wrong expenditures.

Our financial crisis is a privately-created and privately-funded one. Not a public one. Reducing public expenditures to zero will only make the matter uncontrollably worst.
It's not a conspiracy theory to say they're working very hard to create a permanent underclass that will always work for next to nothing.

Bachman recently said if we got rid of the minimum wage we'd eliminate unemployment. How does such a vapid idiot have a national stage?
swiminbuff
Just imaging if McCain-Palin had one and McCain fell to illness this woman would now be the leader of the free world !!!! Can you seriously imagine her on the world stage.
sportinlife
Her errors are however instructive. She claimed that Revere rode to warn the British. According to the wiki profile he was warning the rebels but was captured by British soldiers and when questioned gave them what he believed to be misleading information.

Though there is no claim that he was tortured - and the British troops did not want to upset the colonial populace known to be already agitated - he obviously did not intend to warn them about how well-armed the rebel militias were, as Palin alleged.

She was apparently more interested in making an argument against gun control.

Palin misspoke in the same sense that George W. Bush did on several occassions. The politically convenient re-writing of history is the error.
George Twins fan
Interestingly after the Grand Dame of Stupidity made her Revere comment, Wikipedia was flooded with requests to update the page to fit with Palin's account. And while what she said lines up with what historians believe to be true about him being captured and telling the British about the militia, that isn't what she meant at all.
SeaCraig
QUOTE(George Twins fan @ Jun 6 2011, 04:54 PM) *

Interestingly after the Grand Dame of Stupidity made her Revere comment, Wikipedia was flooded with requests to update the page to fit with Palin's account. And while what she said lines up with what historians believe to be true about him being captured and telling the British about the militia, that isn't what she meant at all.
Gosh how easy life would be if I could just go around adjusting history to fit my whim.
millerbeach
Why limit it to history? In the World of Sarah, anything, and I do mean anything, can and/or will be changed to suit her needs or fancy. Must be nice to live in such a bubble of non-reality. It's going to hurt when that bubble is broken. laugh.gif
BoSoxRudy
I haven't followed this kerfuffle much. I don't know what exactly Sarah Palin said, but Robert Allison, chair of the history department at Boston's Suffolk University, says she was right. Aaaah, the Left's magnificent obsession with the supposedly "irrelevant quitter" continues.

Liberals HATE Rush Limbaugh for so many reasons, probably most because he's right far more often than suits their tastes. He said of the Left's magnificent obsession over Sarah Palin that liberals will tell us whom they fear most. They're not obsessively trashing Mitt Romney. If one goes by leftist discourse, one wouldn't even know Tim Pawlenty existed. And even though Rick Santorum's social conservatism goes strongly against the leftist grain, they don't talk about him either. But the Left is OBSESSED with Sarah Palin.
SeaCraig
QUOTE(BoSoxRudy @ Jun 7 2011, 02:34 PM) *

I haven't followed this kerfuffle much. I don't know what exactly Sarah Palin said, but Robert Allison, chair of the history department at Boston's Suffolk University, says she was right. Aaaah, the Left's magnificent obsession with the supposedly "irrelevant quitter" continues.

Liberals HATE Rush Limbaugh for so many reasons, probably most because he's right far more often than suits their tastes. He said of the Left's magnificent obsession over Sarah Palin that liberals will tell us whom they fear most. They're not obsessively trashing Mitt Romney. If one goes by leftist discourse, one wouldn't even know Tim Pawlenty existed. And even though Rick Santorum's social conservatism goes strongly against the leftist grain, they don't talk about him either. But the Left is OBSESSED with Sarah Palin.
Hard to look away from a train wreck. For me it's a fascination that a political party would allow someone who's obviously so unqualified for the office to remain in the mix. I have to believe it's a win at any cost philosophy regardless of how it could hurt the country. My 10 year old niece is more qualified than Sarah Palin.
Crew Chief
The Democratic Party nominated someone just as unqualified—actually MORE unqualified—in Obama, so your argument holds no water.

Regardless, I just think she's an idiot who's almost as smug and unempathetic as Obama.
SeaCraig
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 7 2011, 03:15 PM) *

The Democratic Party nominated someone just as unqualified—actually MORE unqualified—in Obama, so your argument holds no water.

Regardless, I just think she's an idiot who's almost as smug and unempathetic as Obama.
Puhleeze....the experience of the two is not even close. First and foremost the President is educated. Palin, not so much. It makes a big difference. I also think he'd be able to handle the "gotcha" questions that seem to launch Palin in fantasy land...making it up as she goes along. Oh, the President would be able to tell you which newspapers he reads. I'm certain Palin couldn't because she doesn't.
canmark
Video: Kids explain the midnight ride of Paul Revere

Thankfully, there's hope for the country.
Crew Chief
QUOTE(SeaCraig @ Jun 7 2011, 05:36 PM) *

Puhleeze....the experience of the two is not even close. First and foremost the President is educated. Palin, not so much. It makes a big difference. I also think he'd be able to handle the "gotcha" questions that seem to launch Palin in fantasy land...making it up as she goes along. Oh, the President would be able to tell you which newspapers he reads. I'm certain Palin couldn't because she doesn't.


Educated? Sure, so was George Bush.

Fact: Obama is an elitist who has a lot of classroom experience as a student.

Fact: Obama never held a private sector job.

Fact: Obama was a do nothing, worthless state senator with little elected experience.

Fact: Obama has ZERO executive experience.

Palin, at least, was a governor, even if she quit to make money.

She doesn't dwarf him in experience, but she does have more of the single most relevant experience, that being an executive.

In short, Obama is really a rather stupid individual.
SeaCraig
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 7 2011, 06:36 PM) *

Educated? Sure, so was George Bush.

Fact: Obama is an elitist who has a lot of classroom experience as a student.

Fact: Obama never held a private sector job.

Fact: Obama was a do nothing, worthless state senator with little elected experience.

Fact: Obama has ZERO executive experience.

Palin, at least, was a governor, even if she quit to make money.

She doesn't dwarf him in experience, but she does have more of the single most relevant experience, that being an executive.

In short, Obama is really a rather stupid individual.
And that response reflects more about you than the President!
Crew Chief
Sorry, but the facts speak for themselves, regardless of your ability to acknowledge them. Your ignorance of Obama's elected career is but one reason you and other liberals have this ridiculous belief that he's smart. Hell, he isn't even that book smart! 57 U.S. states, ay there, Barry?

The guy accomplished nothing as an Illinois state senator; he accomplished nothing as a U.S. senator, and has accomplished little as president. In fact, he is so far an abysmal failure rivaling Jimmy Carter.
SeaCraig
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 7 2011, 07:10 PM) *

Sorry, but the facts speak for themselves, regardless of your ability to acknowledge them. Your ignorance of Obama's elected career is but one reason you and other liberals have this ridiculous belief that he's smart. Hell, he isn't even that book smart! 57 U.S. states, ay there, Barry?

The guy accomplished nothing as an Illinois state senator; he accomplished nothing as a U.S. senator, and has accomplished little as president. In fact, he is so far an abysmal failure rivaling Jimmy Carter.
Not only is your list not fact, but your conclusion here is supposition. Time will tell. I'm comfortable with my own conclusion...also supposition. Even though he's way too right wing, he'll ultimately be remembered as a very good to great President...saving us from financial ruin, ending two wars and finally addressing health care.
Crew Chief
QUOTE(SeaCraig @ Jun 7 2011, 08:23 PM) *
Not only is your list not fact,


It is, indeed, factual. All those were true. I know it's hard to accept, but you'll get over it.


QUOTE
saving us from financial ruin, ending two wars and finally addressing health care.


Now THAT almost made me laugh my lungs out. He is destroying the economy with his anti-growth policies.

As Michael Barone so effectively wrote:

QUOTE

Last week, it was noted that various forms of the word "unexpected" almost inevitably appeared in news stories about unfavorable economic developments.

You can find them again in stories about Friday's shocking news, that only 54,000 net new jobs were created in the month of May and that unemployment rose to 9.1 percent.

But with news that bad, maybe bad economic numbers will no longer be "unexpected." You can only expect a robust economic recovery for so long before you figure out, as Herbert Hoover eventually did, that it is not around the corner.

Exogenous factors explain some part of the current economic stagnation. The earthquake and tsunami in Japan caused a slowdown in manufacturing. Horrendous tornadoes did not help. Nor did bad weather, though only a few still bitterly cling to the theory that it's caused by man-made global warming.

But poor public policy is surely one reason why the American economy has not rebounded from recession as it has in the past. And political posturing has also played a major role.

Barack Obama and the Democratic congressional supermajorities of 2009–10 raised federal spending from 21 percent to 25 percent of gross domestic product. Their stimulus package stopped layoffs of public employees for a while, even as private sector payrolls plummeted.

And the Obama Democrats piled further burdens on would-be employers in the private sector. Obamacare and the Dodd-Frank financial-regulation bill are scheduled to be followed by thousands of regulations that will impose impossible-to-estimate costs on the economy.

That seems to have led to a hiring freeze. The Obama Democrats can reasonably claim not to be responsible for the huge number of layoffs that occurred in the months following the financial crisis of fall 2008. And Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke did manage to help stabilize financial markets.

But while the number of layoffs is now vastly less than in the first half of 2009, the number of new hires has not increased appreciably. Many more people have been unemployed for longer periods than in previous recessions, and many more have stopped looking for work altogether.

It's hard to avoid the conclusion that the threat of tax increases and increased regulatory burdens have produced something in the nature of a hiring strike.

And then there is the political posturing. On April 13, Barack Obama delivered a ballyhooed speech at George Washington University. The man who conservatives as well as liberal pundits told us was a combination of Edmund Burke and Reinhold Niebuhr was widely expected to present a serious plan to address the budget deficits and entitlement spending.

Instead, the man who can call on talented career professionals at the Office of Management and Budget to produce detailed blueprints gave us something in the nature of a few numbers scrawled on a paper napkin.

The man depicted as pragmatic and free of ideological cant indulged in cheap political rhetoric, accusing Republicans — including House Budget Committee chairman Paul Ryan, who was in the audience — of pushing old ladies in wheelchairs down the hill and starving autistic children.

The signal was clear. Obama had already ignored his own deficit-reduction commission in preparing his annual budget, which was later rejected 97–0 in the Senate. Now he was signaling that the time for governing was over and that he was entering campaign mode 19 months before the November 2012 election.

People took notice, especially those people who decide whether to hire or not. Goldman Sachs's Current Activity Indicator stood at 4.2 percent in March. In April — in the middle of which came Obama's GW speech — it was 1.6 percent. For May, it is 1.0 percent.

"That is a major drop in no time at all," wrote Business Insider's Joe Weisenthal.

After April 13, Obama Democrats went into campaign mode. They staged a poll-driven Senate vote to increase taxes on oil companies.

They launched a Medi-scare campaign against Ryan's budget resolution that all but four House Republicans had voted for. That seemed to pay off with a special election victory in the New York 26th congressional district.

The message to job creators was clear. Hire at your own risk. Higher taxes, more burdensome regulation and crony capitalism may be here for some time to come.

One possible upside is that economic bad news may no longer be "unexpected." Another is that voters may figure out what is going on.


BTW, there's a reason even insider Democrats in Illinois considered him a "do-nothing, know nothing politician" when he was in the General Assembly.
sportinlife
To have a Republican win the 2012 race would have been a challenge for the likes of Lee Atwater, much less Karl Rove. The screaming from the right will have to ramp up to a level that may cause even the most gullible Independents to become wary of their sanity.

The reason is the early polling pitting the most credible Republican candidate so far head-to-head against Obama. These early polls are obviously subject to change but past experience suggests that a president in a very poor economy running against someone with alleged business experience should be - at the very least - polling slightly below any credible challenger.

And Romney is the only one so far.

As the campaigns progress and the news media start to look closer at the declared candidates, things will only get worse for those with high negatives.

Despite the rantings of right-wing extremists, Obama has no really large negative. Therefore one has to be created out of whole cloth.

And that is what is already happening here and elsewhere. Romney's business experience of closing down companies and eliminating jobs will not be covered up by making extremist statements about Obama's work.
Crew Chief
The GOP won't have to create any negatives for Obama. He is a landslide victim waiting to happen. I personally know many people who eagerly and enthusiastically voted for him in 2008, but they can't stand him now. Like so many saps, they were bamboozled into thinking he was going to be some wonderful president. Well, with their paychecks having shrunk thanks to the Democrats, with his economy-destroying policies, his horrible energy policy, and more, they've had it with him. The only exception seem to be the blacks, who'd vote for him even if Jesus Christ ran as a Republican.
SeaCraig
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 8 2011, 08:13 AM) *

The GOP won't have to create any negatives for Obama. He is a landslide victim waiting to happen. I personally know many people who eagerly and enthusiastically voted for him in 2008, but they can't stand him now. Like so many saps, they were bamboozled into thinking he was going to be some wonderful president. Well, with their paychecks having shrunk thanks to the Democrats, with his economy-destroying policies, his horrible energy policy, and more, they've had it with him. The only exception seem to be the blacks, who'd vote for him even if Jesus Christ ran as a Republican.
I think you're going to be surprised. There's no serious candidate on the other side. Tax breaks and destroying Medicare as a way to stimulate the economy? I think even now, 75% of the country knows that's a big lie.
Crew Chief
There was no serious candidate in 1992 until Bill Clinton, some "hick" (who turned out to be a good president) from Arkansas came along, and he beat a president who had approval ratings of 91% at one time.

As far as "destroying" Medicare, fortunately, a majority of the country knows that this is typical Democratic scare tactics and demagoguery at its best. Enough people realize or will realize that Obama is the consummate class warrior, pitting classes of Americans against each other and dividing the country worse than any of his predecessors. Hell, his economic policies alone have done just that.

As James Carville so wonderfully put it years ago: "It's the economy, Stupid!"

Indeed it is, and Obama's economic policies have only made things worse. Jimmy Carter Redux, indeed.
SeaCraig
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 8 2011, 10:34 AM) *

There was no serious candidate in 1992 until Bill Clinton, some "hick" (who turned out to be a good president) from Arkansas came along, and he beat a president who had approval ratings of 91% at one time.

As far as "destroying" Medicare, fortunately, a majority of the country knows that this is typical Democratic scare tactics and demagoguery at its best. Enough people realize or will realize that Obama is the consummate class warrior, pitting classes of Americans against each other and dividing the country worse than any of his predecessors. Hell, his economic policies alone have done just that.

As James Carville so wonderfully put it years ago: "It's the economy, Stupid!"

Indeed it is, and Obama's economic policies have only made things worse. Jimmy Carter Redux, indeed.
The incumbent will win unless there's someone else with a better plan. So far all there is are a bunch or radical righties who want to regulate every part of our private lives, steal our money and give it to the rich and corporations and take us to war at the drop of a hat, and dismantle every social safety net program we have. See how that's worked in WI...they're going to lose the Senate over it.

That message won't fly. Now if someone, some mysterious candidate who has a radically different message, emerges late in the process then perhaps. But the R's have moved so far to the right that there's not much chance of anyone close to mainstream emerging on that side. And a 3rd party candidate would most likely be a tea bagger splitting the right giving the President a huge victory.
Crew Chief
QUOTE(SeaCraig @ Jun 8 2011, 12:02 PM) *
The incumbent will win unless there's someone else with a better plan.


Sorry, but history proves you wrong. Obama's economy is worsening by the month, and because his economic policies inhibit growth, stifle production, and more, things will only get worse. The American people are wise to his failure as a president. It's no secret that the generic, no name Republican candidate beats him in a match-up. I'm not one saying as of this date that "he's toast." No, I'm simply saying that unless the economy dramatically turns around, which it won't or can't under his policies, he will do a Jimmy Carter and get his clock cleaned come November 2012.

As far as your comment about the GOP candidates being radical righties trying to regulate our lives, remember this:
  1. It is Liberals who want to control people's lives as much as they can. The Left favors restrictions on speech, religion, and anything that doesn't conform to their ideological views, and they favor forcing their beliefs on everyone else and disallowing others' views, and the American people realize this.
  2. The country is right of center and not left. Knowing that Obama represents the radical, Socialist left, the American people will not stand for more of this.
SeaCraig
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 8 2011, 11:12 AM) *

Sorry, but history proves you wrong. Obama's economy is worsening by the month, and because his economic policies inhibit growth, stifle production, and more, things will only get worse. The American people are wise to his failure as a president. It's no secret that the generic, no name Republican candidate beats him in a match-up. I'm not one saying as of this date that "he's toast." No, I'm simply saying that unless the economy dramatically turns around, which it won't or can't under his policies, he will do a Jimmy Carter and get his clock cleaned come November 2012.

As far as your comment about the GOP candidates being radical righties trying to regulate our lives, remember this:
  1. It is Liberals who want to control people's lives as much as they can. The Left favors restrictions on speech, religion, and anything that doesn't conform to their ideological views, and they favor forcing their beliefs on everyone else and disallowing others' views, and the American people realize this.
  2. The country is right of center and not left. Knowing that Obama represents the radical, Socialist left, the American people will not stand for more of this.
No matter how many times you say it, the President is nowhere near left, let alone socialist. In other cases where the economy was bad, there was something positive to move toward. The R's have nothing positive....at all.

First piece of evidence: House Republicans saying jobs would be issue #1...months later and no votes on any job measures whatsoever...just job killing proposals. Liars.
Crew Chief
QUOTE(SeaCraig @ Jun 8 2011, 12:23 PM) *
No matter how many times you say it, the President is nowhere near left, let alone socialist.


First, yes he is. Second, what is important is that he's perceived as radically left, and that's how the American people have increasingly been viewing him. That's really all that matters, whether you care to admit it or not. It's not too dissimilar from Americans perceiving Republicans as Medicare destroyers. Fortunately, that has been tempered by the facts, as well as President Clinton even being heard telling Rep. Paul Ryan a few supportive words.

QUOTE
In other cases where the economy was bad, there was something positive to move toward.


This "something positive" can be simply a promise to make things better, which undoubtedly the GOP nominee will do. In addition to Carville's quote of, "It's the economy, Stupid!" there is the question even Bill Clinton asked when he ran: "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?" With Obama as president, the answer is a resounding "No!"

Have you even seen the latest major poll trumpeted by ABC News yesterday? A whopping 89% of registered voters says the economy is in "bad shape." A substantial 66% says the country is "on the wrong track." These are ominous numbers for Obama. Considering his policies only serve to cause the problems that result in such abysmal poll numbers, I can't see any way for him to turn things around.
SeaCraig
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 8 2011, 12:13 PM) *

First, yes he is. Second, what is important is that he's perceived as radically left, and that's how the American people have increasingly been viewing him. That's really all that matters, whether you care to admit it or not. It's not too dissimilar from Americans perceiving Republicans as Medicare destroyers. Fortunately, that has been tempered by the facts, as well as President Clinton even being heard telling Rep. Paul Ryan a few supportive words.
This "something positive" can be simply a promise to make things better, which undoubtedly the GOP nominee will do. In addition to Carville's quote of, "It's the economy, Stupid!" there is the question even Bill Clinton asked when he ran: "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?" With Obama as president, the answer is a resounding "No!"

Have you even seen the latest major poll trumpeted by ABC News yesterday? A whopping 89% of registered voters says the economy is in "bad shape." A substantial 66% says the country is "on the wrong track." These are ominous numbers for Obama. Considering his policies only serve to cause the problems that result in such abysmal poll numbers, I can't see any way for him to turn things around.
Well he's only perceived that way by people who don't know the meaning of the words. Even my gun toting tea bagger logger cousins don't think he's that left.

I agree that the economy is not doing well and that he could get blamed for it, the problem is 2010 saw a bit of that feeling and even with control of the House the R's have done nothing. Plus the country (well a supermajority) knows that cutting taxes for the wealthy and eliminating social programs will not encourage the economy. It would have to be someone who has a different idea, but history shows that the way out of this problem is government spending and higher taxes. And no R can make it out of the first primary with that message.
Crew Chief
QUOTE(SeaCraig @ Jun 8 2011, 02:02 PM) *
but history shows that the way out of this problem is government spending and higher taxes.


Uh, no it doesn't. The numbers right now totally disprove this myth.

How quickly we forget that big chart the Obama Administration showed us all when they were touting the stimulus bill--MASSIVE spending, BTW, which showed that unemployment would be under 8%, job growth would increase, yadda yadda. Quite the opposite has occurred.

It's time you just get off this "raise taxes and increase spending" soapbox in some sneaky attempt to further implement your socialist agenda. The LAST thing we need to do in this horrible economy is to INcrease debt even further and take MORE money out of Americans' pockets. Good God, dude! Are you even aware of reality???

If you had your way, 100% of our income would be confiscated, and the government would just give us what we need to survive. Considering this would be yet another way for the Left to restrict our freedoms, this doesn't surprise me.
buccoman
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 8 2011, 07:13 PM) *

First, yes he is. Second, what is important is that he's perceived as radically left, and that's how the American people have increasingly been viewing him. That's really all that matters, whether you care to admit it or not. It's not too dissimilar from Americans perceiving Republicans as Medicare destroyers. Fortunately, that has been tempered by the facts, as well as President Clinton even being heard telling Rep. Paul Ryan a few supportive words.
This "something positive" can be simply a promise to make things better, which undoubtedly the GOP nominee will do. In addition to Carville's quote of, "It's the economy, Stupid!" there is the question even Bill Clinton asked when he ran: "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?" With Obama as president, the answer is a resounding "No!"

Have you even seen the latest major poll trumpeted by ABC News yesterday? A whopping 89% of registered voters says the economy is in "bad shape." A substantial 66% says the country is "on the wrong track." These are ominous numbers for Obama. Considering his policies only serve to cause the problems that result in such abysmal poll numbers, I can't see any way for him to turn things around.



That quote ("Are you better off ...") actually originated with Reagan, and he said it to Carter in the last debate of the 1980 presidential election. It's interesting that you raise it as a political question that might work this time around. Bush is still wildly unpopular, so I really wouldn't advise it. While most people clearly blame Obama for the bad economy now, the opinion polls also show most people believe that it all started with Bush. Four years ago was not all that great. Remember? I honestly think people don't feel things have been really good since pre 9/11.

Maybe a lot of people still think Obama is a socialist, but many of them also think he's a Muslim, and some even still believe he was not born in America. They thought all these things when he ran for president the first time, and he still won...

I don't know how it will work out in 2012. These are unprecedented bad times for the American economy, but Bush managed to win in 2004 even though most Americans disagreed with his policies. The Dems ran a terrible candidate named John Kerry. Sometimes I feel as if Obama is heading into a Jimmy Carter scenario, but he is a lot stronger than Carter, and no one is gong to run against him in the primaries, as was the case for both GHW BUsh, and Jimmy Carter, when they lost.

It'll be interesting to se how it plays out. Neither party seems to have a viable economic policy.
SeaCraig
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 8 2011, 01:08 PM) *

Uh, no it doesn't. The numbers right now totally disprove this myth.

How quickly we forget that big chart the Obama Administration showed us all when they were touting the stimulus bill--MASSIVE spending, BTW, which showed that unemployment would be under 8%, job growth would increase, yadda yadda. Quite the opposite has occurred.

It's time you just get off this "raise taxes and increase spending" soapbox in some sneaky attempt to further implement your socialist agenda. The LAST thing we need to do in this horrible economy is to INcrease debt even further and take MORE money out of Americans' pockets. Good God, dude! Are you even aware of reality???

If you had your way, 100% of our income would be confiscated, and the government would just give us what we need to survive. Considering this would be yet another way for the Left to restrict our freedoms, this doesn't surprise me.
See you want it to not be true, and you're hoping against hope that you're right. However, I've seen the numbers that show that in the times of our highest economic growth taxes were higher and government was spending more. Now that's a fact.

It's a false argument to say the stimulus didn't work. It wasn't big enough, or long enough to repair the damage Bush did.
Crew Chief
QUOTE(buccoman @ Jun 8 2011, 02:14 PM) *



That quote ("Are you better off ...") actually originated with Reagan, and he said it to Carter in the last debate of the 1980 presidential election.


I know that. It was reused by Clinton.

QUOTE
Bush is still wildly unpopular, so I really wouldn't advise it. While most people clearly blame Obama for the bad economy now, the opinion polls also show most people believe that it all started with Bush.


Sorry, but that ship has sailed. We're more than halfway through Obama's presidency, and blaming Bush doesn't cut it anymore. Like it or not, this is Obama's economy. Totally and absolutely, and the People know it.

QUOTE
Four years ago was not all that great. Remember? I honestly think people don't feel things have been really good since pre 9/11.


People believe things have gotten worse since Obama took over, and that they keep getting worse. Those in their 40s or older remember Carter's terrible economic policies, and they see the same things in Obama's, which is one main reason we are where we are.

The sooner this job-killing, anti-growth, regulation-happy, class warrior leaves office, the better this country will be.

QUOTE
Maybe a lot of people still think Obama is a socialist, but many of them also think he's a Muslim, and some even still believe he was not born in America. They thought all these things when he ran for president the first time, and he still won...


No, only a few idiots even heard of this. He won because McCain was a bad candidate running at a bad time. The old man might have had a chance had the financial world collapsed in early fall of 2008.

QUOTE
I don't know how it will work out in 2012. These are unprecedented bad times for the American economy, but Bush managed to win in 2004 even though most Americans disagreed with his policies. The Dems ran a terrible candidate named John Kerry. Sometimes I feel as if Obama is heading into a Jimmy Carter scenario, but he is a lot stronger than Carter,


Only in some limited areas of foreign policy, specifically the Bin Laden affair.




QUOTE(SeaCraig @ Jun 8 2011, 02:22 PM) *
See you want it to not be true, and you're hoping against hope that you're right. However, I've seen the numbers that show that in the times of our highest economic growth taxes were higher and government was spending more. Now that's a fact.


No, it's not a fact. If it was, we'd be growing with an unemployment rate of 4 to 5%.

QUOTE
It's a false argument to say the stimulus didn't work. It wasn't big enough, or long enough to repair the damage Bush did.


The stimulus, the health care bill disaster, his economic policies, his regulations--all these and more have contributed to the horrible state of the American economy. Barone explained this well as mentioned above.

It's time you get off this blame Bush train. You can only ride that for so long, even if it wasn't totally accurate in the first place.
SeaCraig
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 8 2011, 01:26 PM) *


No, it's not a fact. If it was, we'd be growing with an unemployment rate of 4 to 5%.
The stimulus, the health care bill disaster, his economic policies, his regulations--all these and more have contributed to the horrible state of the American economy. Barone explained this well as mentioned above.

It's time you get off this blame Bush train. You can only ride that for so long, even if it wasn't totally accurate in the first place.
Why would it? Taxes are at the lowest in 60 years. Even during the beloved Reagan's time they were twice what they are now.
buccoman
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 8 2011, 08:26 PM) *


The sooner this job-killing, anti-growth, regulation-happy, class warrior leaves office, the better this country will be.
.



Okay, what exactly does all this mean?

Despite what you might think, I'm am an independent, and I call 'em as a I see 'em. All I tried to say in my last post is that it's not going to work to just say we were better off four years ago, and I offered what was meant to be a non-partisan analysis. Seems you just want to use slogans, and hyperbole (and, honestly, Republican talking points), and can't offer any non partisan opinions?

Note my last sentence in the previous post, that neither party has a viable economic plan. What is your party offering?


Crew Chief
I don't have a party, so your question is moot.

I'm a Libertarian-Independent leaning individual, especially in this corrupt state.

The better off than 4 years ago will work because it's effective and gets right to Americans' hearts and minds. It may be a nice, catchy phrase or a slogan, but it will work. Campaigns thrive on such crap.

Every day I meet more people, many of whom are teachers unions members and other Obama voters, who are so fed up with this president and with the idiots who run this state that they can't wait until the next election. Why? Because they see this country gone horribly down the wrong track with an economy that's in a mess, made more so by the clueless guy in the White House. To them I feel like saying, "Well, what did you expect from an elitist who has never held a private job in his life and who was one of the most ineffective legislators (both state and federal) in this state's history?"
buccoman
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 8 2011, 08:51 PM) *

I don't have a party, so your question is moot.

I'm a Libertarian-Independent leaning individual, especially in this corrupt state.

The better off than 4 years ago will work because it's effective and gets right to Americans' hearts and minds. It may be a nice, catchy phrase or a slogan, but it will work. Campaigns thrive on such crap.

Every day I meet more people, many of whom are teachers unions members and other Obama voters, who are so fed up with this president and with the idiots who run this state that they can't wait until the next election. Why? Because they see this country gone horribly down the wrong track with an economy that's in a mess, made more so by the clueless guy in the White House. To them I feel like saying, "Well, what did you expect from an elitist who has never held a private job in his life and who was one of the most ineffective legislators (both state and federal) in this state's history?"



I hear a lot of anti-Obama stuff too, so we can agree on that, and the President should be worried.

But I don't know what the alternative is?? Just "no Obama" ain't gonna' cut it.

What policies do you think should be in place?
Crew Chief
Here's one policy that didn't work and was finally repealed.

His administration's decision to impose the moratorium in the first place cost tens of thousands of jobs. Who knows what we missed during that time his stupid policy was in place?
SeaCraig
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 8 2011, 01:51 PM) *

I don't have a party, so your question is moot.

I'm a Libertarian-Independent leaning individual, especially in this corrupt state.

The better off than 4 years ago will work because it's effective and gets right to Americans' hearts and minds. It may be a nice, catchy phrase or a slogan, but it will work. Campaigns thrive on such crap.

Every day I meet more people, many of whom are teachers unions members and other Obama voters, who are so fed up with this president and with the idiots who run this state that they can't wait until the next election. Why? Because they see this country gone horribly down the wrong track with an economy that's in a mess, made more so by the clueless guy in the White House. To them I feel like saying, "Well, what did you expect from an elitist who has never held a private job in his life and who was one of the most ineffective legislators (both state and federal) in this state's history?"
You're right, some people are really fed up. But what do the R's offer to assuage that feeling? Not a damn thing.
Crew Chief
Sometimes that's all it takes. "Anybody but Obama" may be a legitimate rallying cry.
mdterp01
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 8 2011, 11:13 AM) *

The only exception seem to be the blacks, who'd vote for him even if Jesus Christ ran as a Republican.


Yes...this BLACK would vote for Obama if Jesus Christ ran as a Republican. The issue for me wouldn't be that he was Jesus, but rather that he was a Republican. Of course it's so easy to criticize a group who finally had the opportunity to vote for a Black President when all previous contenders looked like you. Either way...over the past few decades all Democratic nominees and Presidents have scored very high against any Republican among Black voters because Republicans have never shown they have given a damn about Blacks. Errrm....seems pretty f**king obvious to me.
buccoman
QUOTE(mdterp01 @ Jun 9 2011, 03:33 AM) *

Yes...this BLACK would vote for Obama if Jesus Christ ran as a Republican. The issue for me wouldn't be that he was Jesus, but rather that he was a Republican. Of course it's so easy to criticize a group who finally had the opportunity to vote for a Black President when all previous contenders looked like you. Either way...over the past few decades all Democratic nominees and Presidents have scored very high against any Republican among Black voters because Republicans have never shown they have given a damn about Blacks. Errrm....seems pretty f**king obvious to me.


And on top of that, I can't imagine gay folks voting for candidates who don't give a damn about equal rights for gay folks. The majoity of candidates, except for Ron Paul, and the President, want to have DADT reinstated, want to prevent us from adopting kids, and I am guessing guys like Santorum, Pawlenty, Palin and Bachman (and probably others) are against even civil unions. Frankly, most of the presidential candidates running this year would like to have us back in the closet so that we can't do any harm to others (I am not exaggerating).

That's just unacceptable, especially in 2012, given where the public is on these issues. There's a lot of hate for gays among the majority of candidates this year--really deep hatred.
sportinlife
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 8 2011, 05:43 PM) *

Here's one policy that didn't work and was finally repealed.
Interesting that you bring this up just as we are heading into hurricane season and the oil rigs in the Gulf are most at risk of another spill.
Crew Chief
QUOTE(sportinlife @ Jun 9 2011, 08:23 AM) *

Interesting that you bring this up just as we are heading into hurricane season and the oil rigs in the Gulf are most at risk of another spill.


So? That's the same situation every year. Fortunately, it changes nothing.
Crew Chief
QUOTE(mdterp01 @ Jun 8 2011, 09:33 PM) *


Yes...this BLACK would vote for Obama if Jesus Christ ran as a Republican. The issue for me wouldn't be that he was Jesus, but rather that he was a Republican. Of course it's so easy to criticize a group who finally had the opportunity to vote for a Black President when all previous contenders looked like you. Either way...over the past few decades all Democratic nominees and Presidents have scored very high against any Republican among Black voters because Republicans have never shown they have given a damn about Blacks. Errrm....seems pretty f**king obvious to me.


Well, if you like to be fooled by a party that treats you like dependent lemmings, that's fine. I can see the Democrats have done their job well convincing you that the best way to live is to be dependent on government, take no personal responsibility, listen to empty promises to ensure you keep voting for them, and betray your traditionally conservative religious upbringing (most blacks are far more conservative in their religious upbringing than are whites).

I congratulate the Democratic Party for brainwashing a voting bloc so well.
buccoman
QUOTE(Crew Chief @ Jun 9 2011, 05:08 PM) *

Well, if you like to be fooled by a party that treats you like dependent lemmings, that's fine. I can see the Democrats have done their job well convincing you that the best way to live is to be dependent on government, take no personal responsibility, listen to empty promises to ensure you keep voting for them, and betray your traditionally conservative religious upbringing (most blacks are far more conservative in their religious upbringing than are whites).

I congratulate the Democratic Party for brainwashing a voting bloc so well.



More relevant and accurate: the working class white males who have been brainwashed by the Republicans to believe that all the non whites, gays and educated folk are a threat to their "family values."
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