"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."

Yes the status quo is unacceptable, but, please, don't say, "No Public Option, no competition." If you get the government involved, it will kill competition!

What does Senator Lieberman base this assessment on? That and his other statements are unsupported by studies. They are merely reflections of his philosophical beliefs.

Neither the Senate nor the House has proposed anything close to single-payer national health care. But in my opinion they should. And I can assure you that I have seen a confidential internal study done by at least one major pharmaceutical company that came to the same conclusion.

How our health care ranks is irrelevant to those who do not have health insurance to begin with.

Just a note of clarification on the "single payer" system.

That is the system that Canada has. Please do not confuse it with systems like the NHS in Britain. The big difference is that anyone in the health care field do not work for the government. Doctors are self employed, but are paid by the government when invoices (all electronic) are submitted. The same goes for labs, rehab, etc. Hospitals are non profit institutions, but again while funded by the government, are independant.

In Canada, I have a health card. Whether I go to a doctor, lab, or hospital, all they do is swipe the card, and then I am treated.

For the US, why could something similar not be put into effect?

Think of it this way, whether you are on private insurance, or medicare/medicaid or something different, no matter what doctor or hospital you went to, all they did was swipe the card. Immediately they would know how much is covered, what your co-pay is, what treatments are covered etc. This would not only speed up time, but would eliminate suppression of treatment, and would VASTLY reduce costs up front.

As I have used as an example before, one of the largest hospitals in the greater Toronto area is the Sunnybrook Health Sciences Center. All told, between the cancer care, veterans care, and the hospital, it has over 6,000 beds.

The accounts receivable department has 6 people, all used for out of country billing.

Now, in the US, how many people would be needed, and what would the savings be? Those savings could then reduce costs, or improve treatments while increasing the profits.

Just a thought.

Why you ask Lk? Its because the right ( Republicans) in the US considers this socialism, never mind that we ALREADY have socialism in the US, its called Medicare/Medicaid, and the Veterans Health Care System. The key word is "socialism", they want nothing like any other government in the world has. Its a word game and nothing else in my opinion. This word supercedes anything else related to health care reform in their eyes. They cite that this is more "big government", and more big spending......just my opinion, and I am not alone, as the American Medical Association is in favor of the Senate Health Care Reform Bill and AARP as well, whom I belong to, and this represents about 38 million Americans, some of whom, do not support this bill, and are leaving the organization. They have that right. As I have stated before I am in favor of single payer, failing that, open up Medicare to all, but Republicans don't want this either, so the lines in the sand are being drawn, and drawn again...the battle continues....

Actually, if you look at the current Medicare Advantage program, in which the federally-funded Medicare program uses private health plans to manage and coordinate the care of seniors, while maintaining veto power on all coverage decisions, you will see competition alive and well. However, the competition is not in cost, as all Medicare beneficiaries pay the same, but in service, quality and benefits.

Because health care is a public good - like the environment, defense and education - it by definition cannot be efficiently distributed by the free market; the government has to become involved in order to ensure universal access.

Well it looks like the public option may be on the way out with a compromise being the expansion of the Medicare program for those 55 and over. This would cover more people than now but still not everyone. However, a new bureacracy would not be created as the existing program would simply process more people.

Compromise proposal

Without the public option, the cornerstones left now are the ban on discrimination against people with pre-existing conditions and portability requirements (which includes the opportunity to pay for similar coverage after losing a job that supplied insurance).

And the House and Senate bills will have to be reconciled.

Cost-saving will have to occur for the Dems to survive 2010 with a majority. Delaying may not be an option.
Looks like "single-payer lite".

The key will be whether it is enforced, along with rules that eliminate health-insurers anti-trust exemption. We still have an electoral system that allows politicians to be purchased. That could mean loopholes aplenty.

Opponents of health care reform should be ashamed of themselves. More proof the status quo is NOT working.

Even worse than the unexpectedly low life expectancy (What's a year of life to a politician who has to worry about where the money to finance his/her next campaign going to come from?) is the difference in infant mortality: which not only puts a near the level of a third world country, it suggests the disparity in health care distribution (uninsured) and preventive care (including, but not limited to, healthy air and water) are critical factors.

Rush Limbaugh gives U.S. healthcare his stamp of approval as doctors find "nothing wrong" with him.

It seems the latest argument against current health care reform bills is the stupidest of all. The apparently straight Bart Stupak from Michigan's 1st district leads a group of Congresspersons who insist that the government must deny women financing of reproductive services that may lead to the termination of her pregnancy.

This is ironic since he does not seem to want to deny men the same financing by prohibiting prescription of treatments for erectile dysfunction, which I assume will still be paid for as part of all government-sponsored health reform bills.

A better solution might be for one of the Congressmen to insist on equal treatment for both sexes.

Perhaps the best person to do that - and the only one who might have the balls to do it - is the only openly gay Congressman Barney Frank from Massachusetts 4th district.

It would be simple for Barney to just approach Bartholomew in the congressional men's room (this is an issue between men after all) with the suggestion since Barney obviously has no malevolant interest in interfering with men's reproductive rights. As an added incentive Barn could then point out to Bart (since by now they would be on a first nickname basis) that this would also prevent the excessive loss of spermatazoa.

I think I am beginning to see their M.O. in all this mess....just wear us down until we are sick and tired of hearing about it all. This whole thing is so frustrating, it has become exhausting. I can't believe the short-sightedness of those in Congress, especially the Republicans. It seems as if the Republicans just want to stop everything, regardless of how it may benefit their constituents. The sad thing is, those Republicans know what they are doing with their ability to easily fool their supporters. Until I see some of those "teabaggers" sign over their Social Security checks, and pay market rate for health care, I won't believe they want something as relevant as health care for their constituents.

In a speech in Calgary, Sarah Palin admits her family took advantage of Canadian health care--yes, that gosh darn socialized medicine!

I read notes from her speech in Calgary yesterday. The hypocrisy on the right is just plain stunning. But esp. from her.

Meanwhile, Rush Limbaugh threatens to leave the U.S. if Obama's healthcare reform bill gets passed. He says he'll move to Costa Rica. But does he realize that Costa Rica has government-run universal healthcare?

And with any luck he'll do so soon irrespective of the outcome of the health care legislation.

Goodie. Now, maybe he'll get some rare tropical disease and his balls will fall off. Fitting end to the D-bags of all D-bags.

The pieces seem to all be coming together and it seems like this bill will be passed. Not what needs to happen but there has to be a start somewhere. The system is broken. I'm glad Obama toughed it out. The Rethugs are just coming up with the lamest daggers to throw at him now. Its so pathetic. At least come up with a reasonable argument. Some of them are just saying the dumbest shit.

Health care reform opponents are only shooting themselves in the foot.

Why would anyone not realize that taunting a Parkinson victim is not a good photo op, at the very least?

It boils the issue down to the real crux of the debate: should we all pay for healthcare that will benefit some more than others due to their - often unfortunate - illness?

That is the real difficulty for opponents of health care reform. If it could be done in a way that would guarantee that their personal income and lifestyle would not be diminished, we would not be seeing these poll numbers of people losing faith in the economic benefit of reform.

Unfortunately such calculations can only be estimations and generalizations, since promising any individual a guaranteed financial benefit would be difficult to prove in the absence of pryor experience, and most likely have to be done by illegal or unethical means, such as the sweetheart deals for certain states.

Therein lies the paradox. I am personally convinced that any of the current bills would ultimately benefit more USA citizens financially, as well as improve their lifestyle, moreso than doing nothing as opponents say.

They're also attacking 11-year old boys whose mother's have died.

Yep, they sure are, especially Washington States own Glen Beck. He should be ashamed of himself, but I know thats asking alot. Rush Bloatface isn't alot better. I think deep down the conservatives are scared to DEATH this health care bill is actually going to do some good work. I think thats whats really motivating them. Of course they still have excuses for not supporting the fact it actually helps to cut the defecit. Amazing.

Indeed. They want Obama's plans to fail, even if it hurts the country. The worst thing that could happen (to them) is the US economy goes up, unemployment goes down, the wars are over, and everybody is getting medical coverage. For them, that is the worst. thing. ever.

How charming.

From HuffingtonPost:

Oh but the Tea Party people aren't racist right? I know that all of them aren't, but it really says a lot about a "movement" based on the makeup of its members. I sure don't see any people of color when I look at those rallies. Of course not all of them are racist. Many don't like big gov't and I don't particularly like it either. However, STATISTICS and actual evidence does show that under Obama taxes have gone down for those same people who are protesting about taxes. That shows me that they are a bunch of followers who don't know shit about their own movement and that many are hiding behind the idea of "its about taxes" rather than Obama himself.

Thanks be to God. It passed. History has been made by President Barack Obama. I am very proud to be an American tonight. Hats off to you, Mr. President. You did it.

Regardless of whether the guy actually has Irish ancestry, his campaign slogan should now become "O'BAMA O'12", with a bouquet of shamrocks at both ends.

Well! That was the last time Frum gets invited to CPAC!

Meanwhile, congrats to Obama and Pelosi for their leadership, and to Democratic representatives for honoring principle above political risk. A massive achievement!

The latest protests against health care reform have gone well beyond just plain stupid to downright sinister.

In fact they remind me of another extremist protest, also inspired and condoned by extremist rhetoric from socially respectable people.

The same type of folks who brought us eugenics now seem to want to allow anyone who is sick to simply die, despite the fact that most of them are benefitting from the socialized aspects of current health care and other government programs, either directly or indirectly.

It is hard to know exactly who is behind some of the most extreme actions but the publicly elected official voices of instigation and support are obvious.

These voices need to take responsibility for the terror that they are fomenting.

Then they need to make it clear whether or not they support the actions being taken - both against their colleages in office and innocent bystanders like the brother of Virginia's US representative Tom Perriello. For some November may be too late to speak up.

Wow...I just made a reference to the very same thing in another post. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it like this.

The worst president in United States history has done it all right--succeeded in the beginning of the end of the U.S. economy, and with congressional Corruptocrats, told America, an overwhelming majority of which was vehemently opposed to this cramming of the bill down our throats, "F--- you!"

I have never seen such arrogance and stupidity by Congress and a president in my lifetime, perhaps in the history of this republic.

This bill was one of, if not the worst, bills ever to have been passed. It already is having significant negative impacts that are only going to get worse.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...2445136066.html

The sooner this pathetic excuse for a president and his cronies in Congress are gone, the better this country will be.

Smile, Jimmy Carter, for this monster in the White House is making you look like a Lincoln!




Interesting that no one was ever arrested or even caught. No names were ever brought forth. In fact, evidence now suggests this was all made up in attempt to smear Americans who dared to oppose the arrogant actions of congressional Corruptocrats.

We should be advised not to dismiss those in the Tea Party movement, because unlike fringe protesters, this large and expanding group of Americans is very much like another group of fed up people who founded our nation. The very same bunch of people was responsible for establishing this great nation of ours when they got fed up with the tyrannical actions of the British government, actions not much unlike the actions of the Constitution-trashing party that currently controls Congress and the trasher-in-chief himself.

So the name-calling that was witnessed and recorded by news cameras is faked, you're saying? The smashed windows at congressional offices, the threatening voice and e-mails, that was all made-up?

Are you saying that the left is taking a page out of the right's book? Remember Ashley Todd, the young, white McCain volunteer who said she was attacked by a big black man, an Obama supporter, and had a "B" scratched into her cheek? Now there's an example of something that was faked.

A response more typical from my middle school students--attempting to excuse the behavior of the Left and media here by pointing to bad behavior of someone else.

I was not and am not talking about the actions of idiots after the vote. I am referring to the fact that these alleged racial slurs toward congressmen, as they were walking to go vote, alluded to in the original post by you never happened. No one was ever arrested. No camera ever caught the name-calling claimed by a black congressman. In fact, when asked for an interview to discuss this, the congressmen involved all declined and instead ran and hid behind the media who were supportive of them.

Nothing like making up this schit in order to make those who oppose this horrible bill look like fringe kooks. Everyone knows there are extremists on both sides (though the Left is far more intolerant and bigoted than the Right), but the overwhelming majority of those who oppose this bill are decent, normal Americans who have had enough with the Corruptocrats and their autocratic, arrogant control of Congress and the White House.

We can only hope this destroys that party for decades to come.

Health Insurance Reform is just the first step in taking back the country from those who would just transfer all wealth to the wealthy and burden the average person w/ 10 year car loans 40 year mortgages and hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loans.

Those who underestimate this President (most white people do underestimate African Americans) do so at their own peril. He passed what is basically a republican idea-based health bill when everyone said it was over. HA!

Having women and people of color in charge is uncomfortable for lots of people. It's new. But own the uncomfortableness, I'm sure for some it's scary that the big black man is in charge. And I agree, that childish behavior doesn't elevate the debate...things like name calling don't further the conversation, they just expose the speakers true position.

That's ridiculous. I'm as white as one can be. I absolutely and certainly have NO problems with a black man--or woman--being president. It has nothing to do with feelings of being subjugated to them or anything like that. It has to do with this idiot's policies of trying to turn the U.S. into some European nanny state.



So those pinheads who opt for balloon mortgages or buy houses they can't afford are now somehow our responsibility to help? Those people who can't manage their credit and can only get high-interest loans or 10-year car loans are somehow getting shafted? So we must "take back" our country from such evil lenders who offer these high-risk deals?

Get real, would you? This is a capitalist country. If you don't like that, there are plenty of countries elsewhere that treat you like an unintelligent child who needs to suckle at the breast of Government.

If we followed your ideals, lenders who offer these loans would be banned from doing so, which, of course, would mean they would go out of business; yet they're on the verge of going out of business for this very reason--people who are high risks aren't paying.

And I for one am tired of having to pay for everyone else's irresponsibility.

I don't care which side of the aisle proposed it when, but forcing every American to buy health insurance just strikes me as wrong. It's not analogous to car insurance, because you don't necessarily have to drive to live, especially when you're in a metro area with highly available transportation, and the mandatory insurance part for car insurance is for liability only. How fair would it be to force people who live within walking or bike-riding distance of their jobs (or with complete train/subway/bus coverage for their needs) to buy car (liability) insurance?

The government forcing you to buy any product or service is wrong. Last I read, 14 states have already filed lawsuits deeming it unconstitutional, with about 34 in total looking to fight it similarly...both blue and red states. Universal health care is wonderful and all, when the government picks up the tab, which wouldn't be possible. But FORCING people to buy it isn't the same thing.

I agree with you that it is not at all like auto insurance. Driving is a privilege provided by the state to drive on public roads. It is not a right. Moreover, when driving, one has to be of a certain age, pass tests, follow laws, etc. Auto insurance is mostly to help protect others more so than the driver himself, to which you alluded via your liability comment.

There are parts of this bill that most people like (pre-existing conditions situation, children up to 26 included, etc.), but this bill in its entirety is absolutely terrible. Reform should have done one step at a time.

We know it's bad when Pelosi says, "We have to pass this bill in order to find out what's in it," or when Rep. Dingell says, "...this is to control the people," or even when Rep. Hastings, a corrupt federal judge who was impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate, when the rules to vote were being debated, "Rules? We don't need any rules. We make 'em up as we go along."

These comments speak volumes about these idiots, and anybody here who excuses them or praises the actions of such contemptible people ought to himself be shot.

Everyone isn't as smart as you CC. Not everyone realizes how much a 40 year mortgage really costs. Yet the beloved G. W. Bush tried to get as many people to buy houses as he could. Home ownership for all.....oh yeah, but there's no need to regulate the lenders ....oops I guess that "idea" didn't work out so well. Capitalism only works when it's strongly regulated otherwise it cannibalizes everything in its way starting with labor. You may not agree with all of Marx's works, but he has been proven right in the several of his main assertions particularly his writings on labor. Unregulated capitalism is just anarchy for the rich. Who, by the way, get rich because of the system that ALL of us work to support.

The barons of the past had some sense of responsibility. Carnegie, Ford, Mellon, Rockefeller all realized they needed to share what they were stealing. Now, with a very few exceptions, it's just me, me, me.

Yes! We need to return to the strong Democratic values that help people organize and earn decent wages and benefits. We must stop shifting the cost of education to the poor. We must stop allowing your beloved corporations to operate in our country yet not pay taxes. We must change the trend we're currently on where we are going to end up with only haves and have nots.

I don't have to leave the US for this. We don't have to stand for greed. We, the United States of America, can stand for allowing every citizen the opportunity to get an education and make a decent living. Our problem is we have been convinced that allowing corporations to run amok is best for the country. And we are paying for it.

When you look at nearly every other comparable nation they have a network of social programs that enrich the lives of their citizens. Even the surveys of happiness show that the US ranks low. All of the arguments that the right uses are really sham arguments. Higher taxes, free education through graduate school, state supplied health care, paid leave, shorter work weeks, and the like all work.

It's a type of insanity to see year after year after year these programs work for others yet deny that they work. And it's insane to think they can't work in the US either.

You can have the last word, because I decline to debate with someone who compliments or agrees with Karl Marx, whose philosophies are anathema to this country. I recommend moving to a country more amenable to your views. I'll fight to my dying breath to keep intact this country's democratic and capitalist ideals.

As an educator I would think you'd be more open to reading all views. Just because I read Marx doesn't mean I agree with everything he says. Some of his theories have been proven correct. Pesky things those facts.

I guess the VIDEO that clearly shows the black congressman being spit on was just photoshopped. That is worse than any namecalling that could have occurred. You can call me a half breed or a n*gger til the cows come home, but if you spit on me I'M WHOOPIN YOUR MOTHERF*CKING ASS!!!!!

In some places, if you spit on someone, you can be charged with assualt with a bodily fluid. I agree...names are one thing, spitting is absolutely over the line. Too bad those teabaggers have the mentality of a grade schooler.

An Orlando doctor has posted a sign on his door: "If you voted for Obama … seek urologic care elsewhere. Changes to your healthcare begin right now, not in four years."

Then he has the nerve to say: "I'm not turning anybody away — that would be unethical," Dr. Jack Cassell, 56, a Mount Dora urologist and a registered Republican opposed to the health plan, told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday. "But if they read the sign and turn the other way, so be it."

Apparently, doctors cannot "refuse patients on the basis of race, gender, religion, sexual orientation or disability, but political preference is not one of the legally protected categories specified in civil-rights law."

Damn, I don't think I'd want to go to a doctor that would be stupid enough to post something like that. I seriously wonder about the legality of that sign, if it could be construed as a denial of care.

I'm still very curious about how all the various states' lawsuits are going to pan out, though. It's unconstitutional for the government to force people to buy a product or service from the private sector. While in theory, I agree we need better health care as a nation, but when the government takes away our choice (like it's now doing with college student loans) there's no doubt in my mind we're going in the wrong direction.

My understanding of the government loan thing is that they always were government loans, but the government was letting the banks earn profit off them without incurring any risk (the government took the hit if it wasn't paid back). Now the government is at least making some profit off them to pay for those losses and also using it to give others more assistance in paying for college. I haven't heard anyone frame this as a loss of choice.

Yeah, the analogy on my part wasn't the most sound. The choice thing is that private banks are being shut out of the equation, so borrowers will have less choice than before, still not a good thing, IMO.

But forcing all consumers to buy a specific product or service from the private sector is still viewed as unconstitutional, as many states are fighting.

Do you have that video or a link to it, mdterp? Because if you do, you can send it to Andrew Breitbart (breitbart.com), who is offering to donate $100K to the United Negro College Fund for anyone who can provide video of anyone shouting the N-word or spitting on Representatives the day ObamaCare passed the House. With all the news cameras, amateur video-takers, not to mention the zillion iphones there that day, if any Tea Partyer were indeed guilty of such loathsome behavior, somebody would have captured it on video, right?

Well, apparently Rep. Emmanuel Cleaver, who went whole-hog Cult of Victimhood, is now furiously backpedaling from his earlier accusations. So I guess this so-called "hate crime" is just another in a looooooooooong history of hate-crime hoaxes. Here are some of my favorites, courtesy of The Goddess:

• In 1997, at Duke University, a black doll was found hanging by a noose from a tree at the precise spot where the Black Student Alliance was to be holding a rally against racism. Two black students later admitted they were the culprits and were immediately praised for bringing attention to the problem of racism on campus. Indeed, four years later the president of Duke gave a baccalaureate address nostalgically describing the hoax as a "protest" against racism. Next stop: the Nobel Peace Prize.
• In 2003, vile racial epithets were scrawled on the dorm room doors at Ole Miss, producing mass protests and a "Say No to Racism" march. And then it turned out the graffiti had been written by black students, against whom no charges were brought. A "Say Yes to Racism" rally at Ole Miss was later canceled due to lack of interest.
• In 2005, obscenity-laced racist and anti-Semitic messages appeared on dormitory walls at the College of Wooster in Ohio. The fliers were instantly blamed on "typical white males," even though all the letter I's in the epithets were dotted with little hearts. Breadcrumbs left by the culprits included the message "Vote Goldwater" among the obscenities. The matter was dropped and flushed down the memory hole when the perpetrators turned out to be a group of leftist students led by a black studies major.
• Just this year, anti-Muslim fliers were put out on the George Washington University campus — by leftists, including a member of "Iraq Veterans Against War." When it was thought the leaflets were from the conservative group Young Americans For Freedom, the dean called for the expulsion of the culprits and the university demanded that YAF officers sign a statement disavowing "hate speech." But when it turned out leftists had distributed the fliers, the matter was dropped faster than Larry Craig was dropped from Mitt Romney's campaign.
• A white woman professor at Claremont McKenna College said her car had been vandalized with racist and anti-Semitic graffiti, with the words "Shut Up!" spray-painted on the hood of her car. She was not black or Jewish, but had recently converted to Judaism and spoke out against racism. So she was a victim! After the vandalism of her car, she promptly became Queen for a Day. Far from "silenced," this anonymous mountebank was given a national microphone to bore us with her race-gender-culture theories. The campus was shut down for a day for anti-racism rallies in the charlatan's honor. Then eyewitnesses identified her as the one who had spray-painted her own car, and the pity party was over.

Judging by the number of posts, one would think Outsports were a board for Cult of Victimhood Drama Queens, not gay sports lovers. Of course, not one of the resident DQs, nor any other liberal in this country for that matter, was particularly disturbed when it looked like pro-life (allegedly) Bart Stupak might stop ObamaCare's passage and he was besieged with death threats from the LEFT. Where were the quivering lips, the tear-welled eyes, and the comparisons to Kristallnacht then? Oh, that's right, according to liberals, death threats are fine and dandy if they're used to advance THEIR agenda.

It is little wonder that he is being less strident after viewing the actual video of the incident.

But it is also little wonder that he found the spittal in his face while shouting abusive and insulting.

Civil rights protesters were once considered overly-sensitive when the same was done to them during sit-ins.

Funny, I only hear crickets now! Thanks for the link, Sport. Now perhaps this sophmoric behavior will come to an end. One can dream...

From the Talmud: We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are.

Of course the Cultists of Victimhood will see in that video a man spitting on Representative Cleaver because that dovetails perfectly into their own self-important victimhood fantasies. Come on, look at how mdterp got her panties twisted into the Gordian Knot before even knowing the facts of the incident.

I like to give people the benefit of a doubt, and in this case, that would mean that this is more a case of "say it, don't spray it." But even if one man did indeed stoop so low as to spit on someone simply because he disagreed with the other's politics, one isolated kook hardly represent a movement of millions. But again, there is always one standard for conservatives, and another one for liberals.
Voter fraud is wrong!! (unless it helps get the all-important 60th Senate seat, Al Franken, then leftists get as quiet as a churchmouse)
The Tea Party hates black people!! (but when the SEIU thugs beat, kicked, and called an African-American Tea Partyer a n*gger, no liberal seemed particularly bothered)
The Tea Party is a violent mob!! (never mind that a leftist wingnut bit off a Tea Partyer's finger)
Bart Stupak death threats (been over it, so many times, NO RESPONSE yet from liberals)

I do have to wonder why Rep. Emmanuel would issue a statement where he claims that he was spat on and called the N-word, turn turn around and refuse to talk about it, and then go so far as to deny ever saying he was spat on and called the N-word when his own office issued a press release stating exactly that. The United Negro College Fund is a terrific cause, and a hundred grand would do the organization a whole lotta good, yet no one's gotten Andrew Breitbart to pay up. Kinda like how that million dollar offer from T Boone Pickens to whoever can prove the Swiftboaters were lying has yet to be claimed after all these years. For liberals, their victimhood fantasies and race hoaxes are kinda like implants in a strip club: fake is just as good as, if not better than, real.

millerbeach, did it not occur to you that some of us, in fact most of us, have lives whole and apart from this message board? Tonight I went out to dinner, saw Cirque du Soleil's "Viva Elvis" (a terrific show, although still a bit rough), and then grabbed a drink. Just because I, or one of the two or three other conservatives here, didn't respond within nanoseconds, it doesn't mean "just crickets," OK?

Of course let's get caught up in whether he had spit on his face from the guy speaking with such vitriol that it flew out of his mouth....hardly courteous debate....or whether the guy actually spit on him.....not out of the realm of possibility given history, current stoking of anger and again, the vitriol of the protester.

And of course let's have all the white people determine how black people should feel, act, respond in that situation. Because certainly you know what that's like.

FYI...the health bill passed. Move on. It's really the height of white privilege to think that after more than a year of debate and many votes we should still be debating it. This privilege shows up in so many ways. I wish people would just wake up and realize that all this fear is not based in reality. It has little, if nothing, to do with what is actually happening, i.e. healthcare, but white people feeling power slip away.

If we are truly a country that's a "melting pot" or "salad bowl" or if we at all stand for the "liberty and justice for all" then we need to get beyond the minutiae of details and resolve the bigger issues.

One thing we DO know is that Republicans are the biggest liars there are and that they don't give a shit about the average person. You can take that to the bank.

There's one liberal's opinion