OK - a team in Phoenix goes bankrupt - losing tens of millions a year. Anybody that has looked at it - with the exception of the guy the owner wants to sell to and who by far has offered the highest bid - has bailed. The latest the NHL's white night Reinsdorf. So now the NHL wants to buy the team and has put forward a $140 million dollar bid of their own for the team with the idea of flipping it to an owner they want later.
In the meantime an underserved market - Southern Ontario where hundreds of thousands of people would like to buy a ticket to an NHL game - but can't because it is practically impossible to get Leafs tickets - that underserved market has a hockey fan worth billions ready to pour hundreds of millions into buying a team and renovating the 17,500 seat arena in Hamilton - but the NHL says no - that would not be good for the league.
Yet one day after announcing their bid to keep the Coyotes in Phoenix the NHL admits that any potential owners they talk to after spending $140 million of league money to buy the team - will have the right to move the team unless they get a better lease at the arena in Glendale.
So in other words the NHL will spend money to buy a money losing team and then likely sell it to somebody who may want to move it to Vegas or Kansas City - but a $215 million bid that will move the team to a hockey hotbed is bad.
Somebody please explain! And could somebody also please tell me where the NHLPA is on this. Their deal is a revenue sharing arrangement where they are guaranteed a percentage of league revenues. Shouldn't they be concerned that their salaries will be lower if the team is kept in Phoenix. Shouldn't they be concerened that the league is talking about spending $140 million in the hope of finding a satisfactory owner later - even though they've had 8-9 months to find one and any serious bidder after looking at the numbers in Phoenix have bailed.
Sounds very fishy to me - and it makes me wonder how much weight is MLSE - owners of the Leafs exerting on NHL brass to keep a team out of the Southern Ontario market. Even though Balsilie has indicated he's ready to pay tens of millions to settle territorial issues.
I'm a Leafs fan - but grew up in Hamilton. Screw the Leafs - Go Balsilie Go - on this one.
Full Version: What has the NHL got against Hamilton
Unfortunately, this issues long ago ceased to be about business models and it has become primarily a Canadian nationalism issue and an ego battle between the NHL Board and Balsillie.
First off, you don't grant franchises where they will be profitable. You grant franchises where it will grow the overall market for your product. If that is Hamilton, so be it, but I'm not so sure that it is the best market for relocation. If relocation is warranted in the first place. You must realize that moving teams to hockey hotbeds, is not necessarily a good thing. You want to expand your market, not canibalize it. That tends to be the big failure of franchises. You don't saturate the market you already dominate with more and more franchises. Rather you put franchises in markets that you don't dominate and if you are patient enough in a genration or so, you may now have a new market for more franchises.
Let's be honest, the move south was unpopular in Canada, but it has worked. It has been, overall, not terribly profitable, but it has increased the market, which is what the long-term objective was. Take a look at the draft, kids are now being drafted from places like California, Texas, and Colorado. The American junior leagues are no longer a joke, though clearly inferior to the CHL, kids are being drafted from them in the first and second rounds. None of that was true 15 years ago. A few years back a study was done to determine what state or province could boast hosting the most professional hockey players. The shocking result was that Texas of all places had the most. They had develpoed an extensive "rodeo" hockey league. The American Southeast is now littered with ECHL and CHL teams. Again, none of that was true 15 years ago. Hockey is one of the fastest growing youth sports in the US, for the past 15 years or so. This is a very good thing for hockey. But I'm not necessarily sure it is the best thing for Canada, and thus enters the nationalism issue. If you don't support a team in Hamilton, you are de facto anti-Canadian. This is why the league needs to tread lightly on this issue.
Second Balsillie has proven himself to not be hockey material. He is a remarkable businessman, but a little too Trumplike to be a suitable hockey owner IMO. The man obviously doesn't understand the concept of team play. Most of the best entrepreneurs don't. That's what makes them great entrepreneurs. They defy convention, tell everyone else to screw off and build their business how they think it should work. But that mentality isn't appreciated in a franchise system, especially one that is an old boy's network like hockey, and isn't appreciated by the hockey community who udnerstands the value of team play and paying your dues.
Third, Reinsdorf didn't really pull out. The NHL is now effectively bidding for him. And now he doesn't have to assume the risk of re-negotiating the horrid lease at Glendale Arena. But he still will be given the franchise if the NHL buys the team and doesn't relocate it. So it is a win-win for him. He pulled out not because he didn't want the team, or couldn't make it work, but rather, because the NHL assumed all the risk for him.
Personally, I think the best result would be one of two things. First, for the judge to award the team to Balisillie but not give him the right to move it. Saddle him with a team in Phoenix, and to hell with whatever conditions he made on it. Then have to negotiate with the NHL to move the team, or just move it on his own and prove that his isn't NHL material. Or two, award it to the NHL, and allow the team to be bought by the highest bidder, pending approval by the NHL Board, and approval for relocation as well, if needed. If Hamilton can make the best case for it, so be it then.
First off, you don't grant franchises where they will be profitable. You grant franchises where it will grow the overall market for your product. If that is Hamilton, so be it, but I'm not so sure that it is the best market for relocation. If relocation is warranted in the first place. You must realize that moving teams to hockey hotbeds, is not necessarily a good thing. You want to expand your market, not canibalize it. That tends to be the big failure of franchises. You don't saturate the market you already dominate with more and more franchises. Rather you put franchises in markets that you don't dominate and if you are patient enough in a genration or so, you may now have a new market for more franchises.
Let's be honest, the move south was unpopular in Canada, but it has worked. It has been, overall, not terribly profitable, but it has increased the market, which is what the long-term objective was. Take a look at the draft, kids are now being drafted from places like California, Texas, and Colorado. The American junior leagues are no longer a joke, though clearly inferior to the CHL, kids are being drafted from them in the first and second rounds. None of that was true 15 years ago. A few years back a study was done to determine what state or province could boast hosting the most professional hockey players. The shocking result was that Texas of all places had the most. They had develpoed an extensive "rodeo" hockey league. The American Southeast is now littered with ECHL and CHL teams. Again, none of that was true 15 years ago. Hockey is one of the fastest growing youth sports in the US, for the past 15 years or so. This is a very good thing for hockey. But I'm not necessarily sure it is the best thing for Canada, and thus enters the nationalism issue. If you don't support a team in Hamilton, you are de facto anti-Canadian. This is why the league needs to tread lightly on this issue.
Second Balsillie has proven himself to not be hockey material. He is a remarkable businessman, but a little too Trumplike to be a suitable hockey owner IMO. The man obviously doesn't understand the concept of team play. Most of the best entrepreneurs don't. That's what makes them great entrepreneurs. They defy convention, tell everyone else to screw off and build their business how they think it should work. But that mentality isn't appreciated in a franchise system, especially one that is an old boy's network like hockey, and isn't appreciated by the hockey community who udnerstands the value of team play and paying your dues.
Third, Reinsdorf didn't really pull out. The NHL is now effectively bidding for him. And now he doesn't have to assume the risk of re-negotiating the horrid lease at Glendale Arena. But he still will be given the franchise if the NHL buys the team and doesn't relocate it. So it is a win-win for him. He pulled out not because he didn't want the team, or couldn't make it work, but rather, because the NHL assumed all the risk for him.
Personally, I think the best result would be one of two things. First, for the judge to award the team to Balisillie but not give him the right to move it. Saddle him with a team in Phoenix, and to hell with whatever conditions he made on it. Then have to negotiate with the NHL to move the team, or just move it on his own and prove that his isn't NHL material. Or two, award it to the NHL, and allow the team to be bought by the highest bidder, pending approval by the NHL Board, and approval for relocation as well, if needed. If Hamilton can make the best case for it, so be it then.
Personally, I'm not sure that MLSE is really the culprit. Yes they are holding the veto card over Hamilton, but if the relocation fee was high enough I think they would relent. Everyone, even MLSE, has their price.
What is holding this up is Balsillie's own behavior in poking the eyes of the NHL board, and the NHL board thinking that they rule NHL hockey, which, of course, they do. If he really wanted a team, he would have shown up at a meeting with a sack of money and said here's my fee. I want a team in Hamilton, let's see what can be worked out. But he's never really done that. He has acted as if because he is rich and Canadian he has a right to a team, something that the NHL board seems to disagree with.
If Hamilton really wants a team, it has to show that it is the best place to increase the overall hockey pie, something to this date, it has not shown that it can do. But perhaps it can show it in the future.
What is holding this up is Balsillie's own behavior in poking the eyes of the NHL board, and the NHL board thinking that they rule NHL hockey, which, of course, they do. If he really wanted a team, he would have shown up at a meeting with a sack of money and said here's my fee. I want a team in Hamilton, let's see what can be worked out. But he's never really done that. He has acted as if because he is rich and Canadian he has a right to a team, something that the NHL board seems to disagree with.
If Hamilton really wants a team, it has to show that it is the best place to increase the overall hockey pie, something to this date, it has not shown that it can do. But perhaps it can show it in the future.
Hey Tiger
I can appreciate everything you say - but Southern Ontario can EASILY support another team without the market being saturated. New York City area with maybe 500,000 real hockey fans has 3 teams. Southern Ontario with maybe three or four million hockey fans has one.
And guess where some reports here in Toronto have the Coyotes moving to once the NHL sells them. I bet most of you would not have guessed this - Toronto. An MLSE executive is quoted as the source of a story that MLSE have 2 or 3 potential Toronto based buyers waiting in the wings. Owners - who would be friendly with MLSE, which everybody here is assuming to mean that the team will play their games at the MLSE owned Air Canada Centre. More money in rent to MLSE.
And even if that one doesn't pan out - the NHL's behaviour through this entire process has diminished the league and with the league now trying to buy the team - it just gets more bizarre. Think about it. Three months ago the league was arguing in court that they would have 3 or 4 local ownership bids keeping the team in Phoenix while at the same time arguing that the penalty clauses in the arena lease would make it impossible for Balsillie to move the team to Hamilton. Yet what are they arguing now - any new owner the league sells the team to will be able to move the team if conditions are not right for keeping the team in Phoenix. And then today even more silliness. The NHL is now saying that if Balsillie is awarded the team - they will prevent the sale from closing by tying things up in appeals for years on various issues. The team would likely be run by the NHL during that time and lose tens of millions of dollars rather than letting the team go to a place that would vastly improve the bottom line for the entire league.
And I think the NHL desperately needs owners like Balsillie - a true hockey fan who will spend a ton of his own money to make the in game experience better for the fans who would attend the games in Hamilton. An owner who would challenge the Country Club group think mentality that dominates NHL ownership. He'd be the Mark Cuban of the NHL. And I think that Cuban has been good for the NBA - just as Balsillie would be good for the NHL.
And polls even here in the heart of Leafs country - in the city of Toronto - show overwhelming support for Balsillie on this matter - and there is now a strong sense that many people in Southern Ontario may stop watching the Leafs because of how bad they and the NHL have looked through this entire process. That can't be good for the Leafs or the NHL.
Edited to add this story from today's Toronto Star on how bad MLSE are at running a successful team - in terms of the on ice results as opposed to their ability to make money hand over fist.
I've also included a couple of readers comments that appear after the story that may give you a sense of the reaction to to the efforts of the Leafs and NHL to stop a team from going to Hamilton and how this area needs another team so REAL FANS can get tickets to an NHL game!
Here is a link to the story http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/688199
Here are a couple of telltale reader comments.
Comment 1
Will some of you PLEASE SHUT UP...
....and stop telling Leafs fans to stop going to the games. WE DON'T! We can NOT afford to. We watch the games at home or in sports bars. Those people in the platinum, gold and red seats are rich businessmen, as are the box renters. A single seat license costs over $50,000 just for the privelege of then buying seasons tickets at over $400 a game. All of these expenditures are written off as business or business entertainment expenses. No middle class person (with an ounce of intelligence) would ever think of buying a seat like this. That means that MOST of the ACC is filled with NON-fans for every home game. These guys are NOT FANS so when you see them drinking cabernet and eating sushi instead of cheering, STOP CONFUSING THEM WITH REAL FANS LIKE ME.
Comment 2
some Leafs fans do learn, eventually
i threw in the towel recently, not just over the Leafs but the entire league. you can't really blame the regular fans anyway, the corporations buy up most of the season's tickets & they're only interested in having somewhere to send their out-of-town clients for an evening, they don't care if the team is a winner or not. between the Leafs org being the disaster it is, to the Leafs working in cahoots with Bettman to keep hockey out of Hamilton, they've completely lost me. 40 years of being a Leafs fan; i gave it my best shot but they & the league can kiss my ass & my disposable income na-na hey-hey goodbye.
Submitted by katgyrl.com at 11:17 AM Saturday, August 29 2009
I can appreciate everything you say - but Southern Ontario can EASILY support another team without the market being saturated. New York City area with maybe 500,000 real hockey fans has 3 teams. Southern Ontario with maybe three or four million hockey fans has one.
And guess where some reports here in Toronto have the Coyotes moving to once the NHL sells them. I bet most of you would not have guessed this - Toronto. An MLSE executive is quoted as the source of a story that MLSE have 2 or 3 potential Toronto based buyers waiting in the wings. Owners - who would be friendly with MLSE, which everybody here is assuming to mean that the team will play their games at the MLSE owned Air Canada Centre. More money in rent to MLSE.
And even if that one doesn't pan out - the NHL's behaviour through this entire process has diminished the league and with the league now trying to buy the team - it just gets more bizarre. Think about it. Three months ago the league was arguing in court that they would have 3 or 4 local ownership bids keeping the team in Phoenix while at the same time arguing that the penalty clauses in the arena lease would make it impossible for Balsillie to move the team to Hamilton. Yet what are they arguing now - any new owner the league sells the team to will be able to move the team if conditions are not right for keeping the team in Phoenix. And then today even more silliness. The NHL is now saying that if Balsillie is awarded the team - they will prevent the sale from closing by tying things up in appeals for years on various issues. The team would likely be run by the NHL during that time and lose tens of millions of dollars rather than letting the team go to a place that would vastly improve the bottom line for the entire league.
And I think the NHL desperately needs owners like Balsillie - a true hockey fan who will spend a ton of his own money to make the in game experience better for the fans who would attend the games in Hamilton. An owner who would challenge the Country Club group think mentality that dominates NHL ownership. He'd be the Mark Cuban of the NHL. And I think that Cuban has been good for the NBA - just as Balsillie would be good for the NHL.
And polls even here in the heart of Leafs country - in the city of Toronto - show overwhelming support for Balsillie on this matter - and there is now a strong sense that many people in Southern Ontario may stop watching the Leafs because of how bad they and the NHL have looked through this entire process. That can't be good for the Leafs or the NHL.
Edited to add this story from today's Toronto Star on how bad MLSE are at running a successful team - in terms of the on ice results as opposed to their ability to make money hand over fist.
I've also included a couple of readers comments that appear after the story that may give you a sense of the reaction to to the efforts of the Leafs and NHL to stop a team from going to Hamilton and how this area needs another team so REAL FANS can get tickets to an NHL game!
Here is a link to the story http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/688199
Here are a couple of telltale reader comments.
Comment 1
Will some of you PLEASE SHUT UP...
....and stop telling Leafs fans to stop going to the games. WE DON'T! We can NOT afford to. We watch the games at home or in sports bars. Those people in the platinum, gold and red seats are rich businessmen, as are the box renters. A single seat license costs over $50,000 just for the privelege of then buying seasons tickets at over $400 a game. All of these expenditures are written off as business or business entertainment expenses. No middle class person (with an ounce of intelligence) would ever think of buying a seat like this. That means that MOST of the ACC is filled with NON-fans for every home game. These guys are NOT FANS so when you see them drinking cabernet and eating sushi instead of cheering, STOP CONFUSING THEM WITH REAL FANS LIKE ME.
Comment 2
some Leafs fans do learn, eventually
i threw in the towel recently, not just over the Leafs but the entire league. you can't really blame the regular fans anyway, the corporations buy up most of the season's tickets & they're only interested in having somewhere to send their out-of-town clients for an evening, they don't care if the team is a winner or not. between the Leafs org being the disaster it is, to the Leafs working in cahoots with Bettman to keep hockey out of Hamilton, they've completely lost me. 40 years of being a Leafs fan; i gave it my best shot but they & the league can kiss my ass & my disposable income na-na hey-hey goodbye.
Submitted by katgyrl.com at 11:17 AM Saturday, August 29 2009
Here are links to a couple of newspaper articles on this subject. One describing the Coyotes to Toronto to play at the ACC scenario. The other describing how badly and dishonestly the NHL hyas handled this.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/nhls...article1265993/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/globe...article1265916/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/nhls...article1265993/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/globe...article1265916/
They're being drafted from Tennessee, too... 
QUOTE(sooners2727 @ Aug 29 2009, 06:20 PM) 
They're being drafted from Tennessee, too...
Rather than losing sleep over whether the team is in Hamilton or Phoenix... or Saskatoon or Winnipeg, the league should be more worried about two trends which have much more severe long-term consequences. These come in the form of two reports released this summer which show that viewership of both hockey (and football for that matter) are down in Canada amoung both young viewers and women.
And I will add to that - studies in Toronto show the percentage of people under age 25 who call themselves hockey fans - is at an all time low. And a big reason for that is that 50% of people in this city were not born in Canada and about 50% are visible minorities. Part of what being a fan is all about is about going to a game. Once you go to a game or two in person - my guess is that you are much more likely to watch a few more games on TV and follow the home team a bit closer - in other words - become a fan. I know that has been my experience as a kid, and even as an adult where I became more of a Raptors fan after attending a few games in person.
Well the availability of tickets to Leafs games is so limited - that unless you pay inflated scalper prices or are able to get your hands on a pair of corporate season tickets - or happen to have friends who are a family member of one of those lucky families who have likely had Leafs season tickets for 20+ years - then odds are - you aren't going to be able to go to a Leafs game. It really is an eye opener if you go to either a Friday night or Sunday afternoon Raptors game - and compare the crowd to the crowd at a Saturday night Leafs game. Basketball crowd - a microcosm of Toronto - about 50% white and the other 50% a mix of Chinese, Philipino, Latin, black East Indian etc. Go to a Leafs game and try to find a non-white person - can be quite the challenge.
Another team in Southern Ontario can only help create a situation where a few more single game tickets become available - and some of those surely will end up in the hands of children of visible minorities here in Toronto, which long term can only be good for the Leafs. Sure right now the monopoly is a license to print money for the Leafs, but the unavailability of tickets to entire segments of the growing diverse face of Toronto - long term is not good for the Leafs - or the NHL.
Well the availability of tickets to Leafs games is so limited - that unless you pay inflated scalper prices or are able to get your hands on a pair of corporate season tickets - or happen to have friends who are a family member of one of those lucky families who have likely had Leafs season tickets for 20+ years - then odds are - you aren't going to be able to go to a Leafs game. It really is an eye opener if you go to either a Friday night or Sunday afternoon Raptors game - and compare the crowd to the crowd at a Saturday night Leafs game. Basketball crowd - a microcosm of Toronto - about 50% white and the other 50% a mix of Chinese, Philipino, Latin, black East Indian etc. Go to a Leafs game and try to find a non-white person - can be quite the challenge.
Another team in Southern Ontario can only help create a situation where a few more single game tickets become available - and some of those surely will end up in the hands of children of visible minorities here in Toronto, which long term can only be good for the Leafs. Sure right now the monopoly is a license to print money for the Leafs, but the unavailability of tickets to entire segments of the growing diverse face of Toronto - long term is not good for the Leafs - or the NHL.
Kind of ironic that during the week that the Leafs and the NHL are pulling out all the stops to keep a team out of Hamilton - hence meaning the great unwashed masses of Southern Ontario will not be able to get tickets to NHL games - that the Leafs choose this week to debut their huge 50' x 30' video board. You see the new video board is part of $48 million worth of renovations being done to the ACC - and the board will not be visible to any ticket holder. No the new video board is on the outside western facade of the ACC in the new courtyard area between the two deluxe Maple Leaf condo towers and the ACC.
No new team in the area that 'others' can buy tickets for. But now all those who can't get tickets will now be invited to freeze their asses off and watch their beloved Leafs on the pretty new big screen TV on the outside of the ACC. Anybody else see the irony in that.
By the way a few studies released this week predict that if Hamilton ever was to get an NHL franchise that it would likely end up being ranked 5th in franchise value in the league.
No new team in the area that 'others' can buy tickets for. But now all those who can't get tickets will now be invited to freeze their asses off and watch their beloved Leafs on the pretty new big screen TV on the outside of the ACC. Anybody else see the irony in that.
By the way a few studies released this week predict that if Hamilton ever was to get an NHL franchise that it would likely end up being ranked 5th in franchise value in the league.
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