This story was on the front page of today's NY Times:
Uganda's anti-Gay Push

The story is chilling, especially as it points to the involvement of American evangelical "pastors," such as Scott Lively, Caleb Lee Brundidge, and Don Schmierer. Links in the article and Google searches reveal their ties to the so-called "Ex-Gay Movement." Even Rick Warren, who gave the invocation at Obama's inauguration, went to Uganda to denounce homosexuality.

I will use this thread to denounce the silence in the face of this hatred of a public figure much admired in the threads on this Board, who is an Evengelical Christian. That person is Tim Tebow. I posted in the Hot Jocks section my concerns over the likelihood of Tebow's own homophobia, considering his and his father's exclusive brand of Christianity. Allow me to provide some links that make me believe Tebow is, in all likelihood, homophobic. They include the Website of Bob Tebow's Ministry, where he asserts that in the Philippines, a country with an overwhelmingly Catholic population, the majority of the people have not heard the gospel of Jesus Christ. I link to a piece calling this to attention, and excorciating Tebow and other so-called "Christian athletes" for their narrow-minded views on religion. Bob Tebow is a graduate of Western Seminary. Type "homosexuality" into the Search mode on the site and gape at the many links to lectures and syllabi devoted to purporting homosexuality to be deviant and curable. Though Tebow may not have made any homophobic statements himself, he is the very public face of his father's Ministry, praised for its good works in the media. A recent SI article attests to this. If he is a true Christian, it is incumbent upon him to speak out against the atrocity about to be committed against gay, lesbian, and transgendered people in Uganda.
Bob Tebow Evangelicalistic Assoc.
What Would Jack Do?
Western Seminary


Tebow will enjoy an illustrious football career. And he is a great player. I fervently pray, however, that he does not end up on any NFL team that I root for.

He's also been "silent" on the imprisonment and murder of Christians in Eritrea and Somalia. Where is your denounciation of him for that? He also hasn't denounced the persecution of Christians in Pakistan, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Yet, you remain silent about that. And, to follow your process, you yourself remain silent in the face of people being killed for being Christians (or maybe they're being killed because they came out as Christians even though they were supposed to be Muslim...for some in those cultures it's not really much different).

Honestly, man, the issue of people being put to death for being homosexual is horrendous. Shouldn't that be the focus? Why are you making it about Tebow? While many people in the US are enraptured by him, those in Uganda, who have a say in their country, wouldn't know him from any other white man who walked in, would they? Isn't the outrage most appropriately addressed to those who would murder someone for how they feel?

This thread is about homosexuality in Uganda...yet it's really about Tebow and other Christian athletes and your judgment that they are narrow-minded. I'll probably regret responding here, because I get that the whole idea is just terrible and is fueling your post. But Tebow is not who some fans have made him out to be...he is not the second coming. Just as Obama isn't the second coming. They can't know everything about everything, nor should they be expected to have an answer for everything.

It seems to me calling Tebow out puts the attention on him in a most Rush/Beck kind of way and takes it off the vulgarity that is being considered in Uganda. If Tebow denounced it today, would it make a difference in Uganda today or tomorrow?

You are certainly correct that the focus should be on the horrendous situation for GLBT people in Uganda. Nonetheless, the article also pointed out how American Evangelical ministers stoked the flames of hatred, intolerance, and demonization of homosexuality there, turning Uganda into a front on America's Culture Wars. I am merely suggesting that an Evangelical Christian of Tebow's stature (a man who wears his faith on his face) ought to take a stand against it. Should he also speak out against the persecution of Christians around the globe? Of course, he should. But that is not the point here.

The situation for gays in Uganda can easily become tragic. Could it become so for gays in the US? I doubt it. But the rhetoric used by evangelical Christians and other Christians on the right about homosexuality sows the seeds of hatred of us. Though we do not face the death penalty for being gay, we are denied civil rights and liberties. It is ironic that Tim Tebow has become a gay pin-up, while it is highly probable that he believes we are disordered and deviant.

Perhaps then, I am not taking Tebow to task, but ourselves. Why lust over a guy whose ilk demonizes me?

The legislation being proposed in Uganda is actually even scarier than what is described here--worse than anything I'm aware of, even in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia. Not only does it institute a death penalty for homosexual behavior but a truly Orwellian clause in the legislation could give jail-time to people merely for being aware of gay or lesbian persons and not informing authorities.

As far as Tim Tebow...I think I'd have to say that it seems absurd to single him out. However, I do think there's a substantial difference between Uganda and Sudan. Yes, there are persecution of Christians (and other non-muslims and non-Arabs) in Sudan, but I'm not aware of any Americans aren't flying to Khartoum and cheering on the government's efforts--quite the contrary. The situations in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq are also dissimilar because they are not examples of government-sponsored persecution. They're more akin to gay bashing or anti-muslim violence in North America or Europe (though admittedly more severe). Well, I suppose there may be more organized anti-Christian violence in Waziristan and Taliban-controlled parts of Afghanistan, but again--those are not condoned by governments.

There is a much-quoted admonition at the beginning of this article that explains why everyone should be disgusted with this proposed legislation:And they should be equally appalled by Scott Lively's response to it:As for Tim Tebow he seems perfectly capable of answering questions concerning his faith with regard to his virginity. This quote: "I think you're stunned right now," Tebow joked with reporters after revealing his virginity. "You can't even ask a question.… I was ready for that question, but I don't think ya'll were." suggests he has an answer.

I love these "supposed 'truths'"... Typical of homophobes who want to paint the glbt community w/ one common stroke:



Those notions alone deserve a triple

...Where did these buffoons get their data? What RESPECTED study(ies) helped them come to such conclusions?

...Let's get real people...This type of crap is simply based on homophobia, paranoia, & bigoted BS!!!

Why would thousands of "heteros" gather anywhere to talk about gays? For three days? This was on the front page of The New York Times? Really? Must have been a really slow news week to publish an international story on the front page. Are they sure this wasn't some sort of Faux News/Sarah Palin book signing party in Africa? Back to the point, this is horrible, and flies in the face of the basic premise of Christianity. I can't speak for this group, Uganda, or little else, but I know this is NOT a Christian action. As a Christian, I take offense that any group would use the good name of Jesus Christ to perpetuate hatred. Again, Jesus is NOT about hate...he is all about love. We (humans) were not placed on this planet to pass judgement on others. That is God's job. Any human (mortal) who passes judgement on other mortals is usurping the ultimate authority of God, and that unto of itself is a mortal sin. Oh, and by the way, Uganda is OFF my vacation list.

Ok, I got an idea.

Gay men're all evil people endowed with supernatural power to convert straight men to gay just by existing.

And surely they think all lesbians are witches endowed with the same unfathomable power (unless they're in a girl-on-girl porno movie in which cast it's therapeutic for straight men to watch).

So why don't all us GLBT warlock/witches get together and use our superpowers for good.

If we all concentrate really hard at the same time we could force everyone who thinks or says the word "homosexual" to actually think or say "christian".

Maybe they could even be forced to substitute "Jesus" for "gay". I'm sure he wouldn't mind. It couldn't possibly hurt any more than being tortured while dragging a cross around.

And the great things is that, since none of us has a stamp or star on us to identify who we are, they wouldn't have any idea where this "terrorist" attack of mind-control is coming from.

One little glitch though. I think after a while they might start to realize we're all "gay". Now that's scary.

I appreciate that you came back to it. It was confusing since you created a thread about the situation in Uganda, yet your denunciation was of Tebow and other Christian athletes. If you wanted to denounce him, then the thread should have been titled about Tebow, rather than using the horrible developments in Uganda as a means of attacking him. There's too much of that approach in our politicized and polarized public discourse, imo.

JC...not sure who said Sudan. I identified Eritrea and Somalia. While it's arguable that Somalia has no functioning government as we would use the term, Eritrea does. And murderous persecution of Christians goes on there. However, the point is that I mentioned both of those as examples of how Tebow had also been "silent"...even regarding people you would expect him to be sympathetic too. Which, he probably is. But he might not know about it. And, as with Uganda, shouldn't be fingered as not "speaking out" against it because someone decides he should.

And there are governments which are directly opposed to religious activity, including basic human freedoms to practice the faith of their choice. Saudi Arabia is one. North Korea is another. China also actively suppresses people for religious reasons, be they Christian, Muslim, Faloun Gong. Anyone tried to be a non-Muslim Zoarastrian in Iran? The Taliban is no longer running all of Afghanistan, but before 9/11/01 they made non-Muslims wear yellow patches. As a post noted...it becomes a slippery slope of accepting persecution of a minority group that can lead to worse, whether that group is homosexual, religious, or ethnic.

After writing my congressman, this is the response I received:

Dear millerbeach:

Thank you for contacting me to express your concerns regarding Uganda. I appreciate hearing from you.

As you know, on October 14, 2009, Ugandan Parliamentarian David Bahati introduced the Anti-Homosexuality Bill of 2009. This bill would outlaw homosexuality in the country of Uganda. Additionally, the measure would institute criminal penalties for homosexuality, including the death penalty for having sex while HIV positive.

In response to this situation, you should know that Ugandan President Yoweri Kaguta Museveni has stated that he is committed to blocking this legislation from becoming law, and on December 22, 2009, several Members of Congress sent a letter to President Museveni, requesting that he oppose this legislation. Be assured that I will continue to monitor this situation with your views in mind.

Thank you again for contacting me. Do not hesitate to let me know if you have any other questions or concerns.


Sincerely,
Peter J. Visclosky
Member of Congress

I was surprised to read that the Ugandan president said that the Prime Minister of Canada had a talk to him about the gays. I've never heard Harper talk about gay people in his own country.

According to the NY Times, Kenyan police had to break up a gay wedding because an angry mob was about to stone the nuptial couple to death.

Which suggests he thinks doesn't need to (assuming he supports Canada's gay-positive laws) or doesn't dare (on the odd chance that he actually does not).

In either case I would take that as a good sign were I Canadian.

Edit to add:

I don't know whether to laugh or to cry about this one. And this headline only deepens my indecision. The front page says it all:



I wonder if he's met with the American evangelicals or supports the death penalty for gays. But then maybe it's some sort of hoax or misunderstanding. Only the money trail would tell. And this has apparently gone on for years without much of a tale.

At a recent human rights forum in Kampala, a Ugandan Member of Parliament vowed "I would kill a gay son". As chilling and repulsive as that is, at least there were others in the meeting who condemned his remarks. Not all Ugandans share this politician's views.

Also about the situation in Uganda: for the second time this week, gay issues were discussed on CBC's The Current (the other occasion being a discussion about Pride House at the Olympics in Vancouver, which I posted yesterday). Despite the widespread hatred towards gays, there is apparently a bar in Kampala where gay men, at considerable risk, discreetly meet on Sunday evenings.

Meanwhile, in Malawi a gay couple has been convicted of... being gay, essentially, and face long prison sentences.

Malawian gay couple sentenced to 14 years hard labor.

NY Times: Malawi President Pardons Gay Couple

The pride of Africa


The shame of Africa

The real shame of humanity:
Uganda Gay Activist found beheaded

NPR/AP: 'Hang Them': Uganda Paper Publishes Photos Of Gays

A gay Ugandan speaks out about what life is like on the inside.

His defiant statement at the end is both moving and encouraging, if dangerous to his own health and life:I felt inspired by Nsubuga's words.

His problems make the task of the "It gets better" campaign seem like a cakewalk.

Obama has said that he doesn't know what it is like to grow up gay. I have no idea what Nsubuga's daily struggle must be like.

The fact that the so-called muslim Mufti has a more humane solution to Uganda's gay problem than the so-called Christian authorities only emphasizes the dire situation for gays in Uganda, and the uniformly bankrupt misinterpretation of religion by its self-professed guardians.Indeed Uganda itself should be diplomatically marooned from the family of civilized nations, as Hitler's Nazi regime was evetually opposed. That Uganda's history of discrimination is not unique only quickens the need.

A very tragic turn to the plight of gays in Uganda:
Murder of Ugandan Gay Rights advocate

My brother-in-law's father is from Uganda....amazing family, something like 14 kids, all with professional degrees, doctors, lawyers, professors, etc...

And yet, most of them are EXTREMELY homophobic, even the ones that live in England and the US (I guess I have a stereotype that the educated are more accepting). At my sister's wedding reception one of the men said some stuff and my sister got on the mike and told them all that if they didn't accept her gay family and friends they could leave. It was quite a scene. I've never had a problem on an individual level, but every now and then my sister will raise the issue at a family gathering which is always interesting....and sad.

In a typical hetero-oppressive way they don't even see the need for gay rights in the country.

SeaCraig, can you hug and thank your sister for me? I really do appreciate the effort she made to stifle hatred, on her special day of love. God bless her. This is exactly how this battle will be won...one by one, idiots and bigots need to be called out and made to feel embarrassed because of their stupid behavior and hateful comments. Doesn't matter if it's here in the USA or in Uganda. I've had a couple of instances where I too, spoke up and challenged stupid comments or behavior. They slink back like cockroaches and cower. I, however, have a vested interest as a gay man. Your sister did not. She has earned my respect.

What mb said.

I'll hug her for ya, but I won't tell her why.....I can't let her head get too big.....hehehe

Nah, I'll tell her, she needs to hear support too.

The YouTube preview of the episode of Vanguard on "The American Architects of Uganda's Anti-Gay Bill" make it abundantly clear that a parallel between current day Uganda and pre-World War II Germany would not only not be an exaggeration but would be frighteningly accurate.

And to label the American evangelical "christians" who accelerated - if not started - this movement to impose death penalties on homosexuals as Missionaries of Hate is surely an understatement.

This is a documentary that should be shown widely throughout this country. For every homophobe it creates, ten would be prevented.

The fact that a USA evangelical could charge $50 dollars per person and fill a stadium in a country with a $300 per capita GDP boggles the mind.

We may say that things are just as distorted here in a sense. But consider that 1/3 of Uganda's national income is foreign aid according to the documentary. Our taxes may be paying to kill the citizens of another country for who they are. If this law passes the humanitarian crisis in Libya may look like a tea party. Perhaps we are too pre-occupied with our own problems to worry about a few gay Ugandans. Should we be?

Shouldn't they be able to apply for U.S. citizenship under a hardship case of persecution? It may be bad to have to leave your own nation, but if they are coming after you because of your sexual preference, it would seem to me you'd want to leave. What baffles me with "Christian" groups like this, is why? There is so much need here in the United States, yet they take "God's money" and go off to Uganda for some bizarre, hateful reason. Did they ever ask themselves What Would Jesus Do? I just don't understand how they justify their hatred and condone murder. The Ten Commandments are pretty clear on that one.

Ugandan Parliament prepares for a likely vote Wednesday on the fate of its "Kill the Gays" bill