I'm starting this thread because this discussion began in the New York Yankees thread stemming from Andy Pettitte and his mentions of God and as one poster said, "his in-your-face religion" in baseball. I wanted to post but felt that it would make that thread go all off track, so here is where I felt people who want to talk about religion in baseball can.

So, as for Andy Pettitte, I agree with the people that felt uncomfortable with him thanking God for his performances or for giving him to will to try. I think it's fine that he has his faith to get him through games, but I do feel that he shouldn't be talking about it that much in post-game interviews.

Also, another person that bugs me is Curt Schilling who always starts a game that he pitches by kissing his cross pendant and crossing himself like he does a little prayer before the game. I feel like he's making it seem like he's in the right and should then win. Just because the other players didn't cross themselves, does that mean God didn't get their message?

Also, I agree with other people that it seems like a selfish thing to do as a Christian to ask God to help you win a game. I'm a Catholic and I believe that you should be self-less and pray for the poor and those who are suffering. Yeah, sure, if you're the Detroit Tigers you might want to ask for prayers, but I feel like God has a lot to deal with already, don't be sending up signals about a ball game. God already gave us the game for enjoyment, why make it into some major life issue?

Peace out!

You're right Batboy, this subject deserves its own thread, even though it has been discussed in the past, and not only on the Yankees thread. I've already put in my two cents, so I don't really need to add much here. I wasn't aware of Curt Schilling's rituals (haven't seen a lot of him since the '01 World Series)...although I've certainly noticed the 'crossing' among many of the Spanish-speaking ball players, including some of the Florida Marlins. I sometimes wonder if they do this more to protect themselves from a pitcher with a reputation for hitting batters (Pedro? Roger?) than from a desire to get on base Although I find such behaviour a little odd, it doesn't bother me as much as the Pettitte-style grand-standing.

BTW, nice galleries on your website.

I think athletes, or anyone for that matter, has a right to any religious expression of their choosing. Be it on TV, in private, or where ever.

Besides, God isn't listening anyways. He's too busy killing kittens whenever somebody masturbates. wink

I will give Andy credit for thanking God for his performance, and not for making his team win. Big difference-I'd like to think that God likes all teams equally.


By definition, God cannot have "a lot to deal with," he's/she's God! You know, as in Almighty? I can understand, to a certain extent, people's discomfort when others talk about their religion. I think, however, we're going a bit over the line when we have a problem with what people pray for. Unless of course they're doing it on your front porch with a bullhorn at say, 3AM wink

Well, my attitude is that it depends on circumstances. Now, I'm not unbiased by any means; I'm totally anti-religion and don't believe in God/Goddess/higher powers. But, you know, I don't mind in the course of an interview with a magazine or something, a player says something like:

"I got caught up in the lifestyle and was drinking too much and cheating on my wife, so I turned to God for help. I'm much better off now".

That's cool, if it helps. What makes me roll my eyes and quote Bugs Bunny by saying "Oh Guinnevere!" is dorks like Trot Nixon, after he hit the homer to beat Oakland in the ALDS, intentionally inserting "My Lord, Jesus Christ" in to his comments. It's totally planned and it reeks of Bible thumping, which I can't abide.

Yeah, excellent stuff on your website there, Batboy.

It's odd, though--I've never seen any athlete being interviewed and thanking Allah, or Buddha, or any other deities. It's always God or Jesus Christ.

I definitely understand putting this thread out there, and I must admit that I have very strong opinions regarding this topic. However, at the risk of being labeled hypocritical and/or intolerant again (see Yankee thread), I will respectfully opt out.

It really doesn't bother me at all. We all state personal beliefs every day that other's don't agree with. It's not a big deal. If anything, it's yet another example of how we can let differences divide us if we choose to. The whole Jesus thing doesn't work for me in a public context, but if it works for you, knock yourself out - it's no skin off my nose.

Joe, the only athlete I remember ever thanking Allah is Nureddine Morcelli (spelling??) who won the 1500 in Atlanta in 1996.

Personally, I'm waiting for someone to thank Satan--maybe a Raider? wink

~Adam

I'm not religious myself, but I don't have a problem with athletes praying before, during, or after a game if they choose to do so. "God Bless America" is performed at most ballparks and even though I love this country, I typically push the mute button until it's over!

While I try not to involve the Almighty in games I watch (over the years I have come to believe that there is a strong possibility that she is a yankee fan), for those of you who like to pray, curse etc. I have a few Patron saints that you might like to keep in mind.

Tiger Fans, Mariner Fans (especially after All-Star break), Cub Fans, Red Sox Fans, {insert your own team here}.....try St. Jude, patron saint of desperate causes.

Hitters who suddenly can't see the ball.....St Aloysius Gonzaga, patron saint of eye problems.

Fans of teams other than your own....St Quirinus..patron saint for possessed people and those with an obsession.

If the cap fits....St Bibiana...patron saint of hangovers.

Umpires...of course other than the UMP who posts on this board....St Lawrence the Illuminator...patron saint for the blind.

For the Kittens mentioned in the previous post....St Gertrude of Nivelles..patron saint for cats..or perhaps the above mentioned St Lawrence.. apparently these is no saint for those with hair on the palms of their hands

I have my TV on MTV in the background, while I surf the net and listen to music. MTV has one of the seemingly endless Real World/Road Rules challenges playing. The reason it's relevant to this thread? M@tt, from the New Orleans RW is a team member. He's a unrepentant God Squader. Now, I think he's way cute and I was glad to see him with his shirt off. But the total dork has written "God is Love" across his nice pecs. It's advertising, it is. And that's what bugs the hell out of me: he's using this silly show as a platform to advertise his beliefs. Grrrr.....

[ November 04, 2003, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

Adam, Mike Tyson always says "Praise be to Allah". Who cares what these players do with religion. If they want to show their religious freedoms, that's fine. They are not praying to god to win usually. They are praying to god or acknowledging god about having no injuries during the game and that they have a good performance not necessarily praying for a win. You guys are making way way too big a deal of this. Also, Curt Schilling's father died a few years back and he kisses his cross before the game in honor of his dad to devote his perfromance to his dad and acknowledge him. So, you guys have no idea where these guys are coming from. So, all of you shoud shut up until you know whats going on. I am glad that people are actually religious and have morals and not trash like all the satanic athiests in here.

[ November 08, 2003, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Mattjock ]

Well, we love you TOO Matt.

"Satanic athesists?". Man, the ignornace of Bible Thumpers never ceases to amaze. Atheists don't believe in Heaven OR Hell. It's a simple concept really.
Rubbish. NFL playoffs, late 90's. Tony Boselli (?), stated quite clearly that God cured his cold that day but let someone else on the other team stay injured.

The win is for the Glory of God, to prove that He is The Great Scorekeeper in The Sky.

The Angels in the late 90's used to have a God Squad; they were quite clear that they were proselytizing when they would babble on in interviews about Jesus, Their Lord and Savior. The Fellowship of Christian Atheltes would tell their people to slip in references whenever they could. And so on.

Maybe you should be more informed before you make silly comments.

[ November 08, 2003, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

I agree. Mike Tyson is such a good, virtuous moral being.

Exactly. And so, Matt, according to the book of myths that you apparently believe in, unless you're a virgin, you're an abomination (Lev: 18:22) that should be put to death (Lev: 20:13).

But it's nice to see that you're a beacon of morality in this dark, evil world.

[ November 09, 2003, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: Jim Allen ]

[quote]batboy:
I'm starting this thread because this discussion began in the New York Yankees
thread stemming from Andy Pettitte and his mentions of God and as one poster said,
\"his in-your-face religion\" in baseball.
[/quote]Because it may be necessary I'll say this up front: I differentiate
between having religion and imposing it. You and others believing
whatever you do is fine. It is those who feel people who disagree
and do not believe what the impositionists do have no right to
disagree.


I wanted to post but felt that it would make that thread go all off track, so here
is where I felt people who want to talk about religion in baseball can.

So, as for Andy Pettitte, I agree with the people that felt uncomfortable with him
thanking God for his performances or for giving him to will to try. I think it's
fine that he has his faith to get him through games, but I do feel that he
shouldn't be talking about it that much in post-game interviews.
[/QUOTE]

Of course people felt uncomfortable. That's the whole idea, to make
you and others feel uncomfortable. You will end up feeling either
the need to leave or the need to join so as not to feel excluded.

Witness the Texas high school football case, where catholics and
mormons - *not* atheists - sued to ban prayer from the start of
football games (fundamentalist xians believe catholics and mormons
are satanists).

Interesting in that case was the fact that the catholics and mormons
named themselves \"Johns and Janes Doe\". During the trial, numerous
defence motions were entered to have the plaintiffs real names used.
As soon as the judge released their names, the plaintiffs started
receiving death threats. So much for \"xian love\".


Also, another person that bugs me is Curt Schilling who always starts a game that
he pitches by kissing his cross pendant and crossing himself like he does a
little prayer before the game. I feel like he's making it seem like he's in the
right and should then win. Just because the other players didn't cross themselves,
does that mean God didn't get their message?
[/QUOTE]

People who pray in public are hypocrites and show-offs, or at least
that's what \"jesus\" calls them (see Matthew 6:5-6).

I can't speak for others, but my definition of a public place is
anywhere that someone has a right to be there and does not agree
or want to take part in some activity not related to the place.

For example, sex in your own bedroom is private, the beach isn't
private and sex on public beaches is illegal. Similarly, nobody
has any business in your bedroom without your invitation, but
people do have a right to go to the beach and shouldn't have to
witness something they don't want to see.

The locker room is a private place for discussing football, hockey,
baseball, or whatever, but it becomes a public place once people
start discussing religion *unless* all members of said team share
that religion. What other reason is there for people to display
their religion in front of others except to impose it?


Also, I agree with other people that it seems like a selfish thing to do as a
Christian to ask God to help you win a game. I'm a Catholic and I believe that you
should be self-less and pray for the poor and those who are suffering. Yeah, sure,
if you're the Detroit Tigers you might want to ask for prayers, but I feel like
God has a lot to deal with already, don't be sending up signals about a ball game.
God already gave us the game for enjoyment, why make it into some major life issue?

Peace out! [/QUOTE]

Anyone who claims "god helped us win" should first explain why their
"god" did nothing to help the people in the World Trade Center.

Oh, that's right, "god" was on the islamic fundies' side. After all,
the xian "god" and the islamic "god" are one on the same; that's why
they and judaism are termed "Abrahamic religions", because they all
derive from Abraham. (Tongue firmly in cheek when I said that.)

The only "prayer" that I would not find obscene would be for two things:
1) everybody on *both* teams plays their best, and 2) nobody gets hurt.

Unfortunately, this is the one prayer you never hear coming out of these
show-offs' mouths. They don't pray for the betterment of everyone, ie.
"love thy neighbor as theyself", they pray for their own gratification,
and to impose their religion on those who don't share it. Ethically,
fundamentalist xianity and fundamentalist islam are the same. If anyone
disagrees with that and says "the fundy muslims are terrorists, not any
xians", please tell me what James Kopp and Eric Rudolph are.


Bob Dog

Mattjock, I don't think we're all satanist athiest just because we don't want people flaunting their religion on a national broadcast sports program. If we wanted that, we would watch Billy Graham.

Now if you excuse me, I have to get back to my sacrificial goat.

[ October 23, 2005, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: m1 ]

satanic athiests

I think he ment to write 'satan atheists'... you know as distinct from the ones who wear leather or flannel etc.

Dug up this old thread to post this, as reported in Pat Hickey's column in The Gazette, Montreal:

"Any country music fan can tell you there's a lot of hurtin' and cheatin' in Nashville, but the Nashville Sounds Triple-A baseball team has discovered there are also a lot of God-fearin' Christians. The team expects to double its Friday attendance with Faith Night promotions. The special night will feature entertainment by Christian bands and Bible-inspired give-aways like a Moses bobblehead."

Wait a minute. A "Moses bobblehead??" Honestly. There are not enough eye-rolling gremlins in the world to express....

"Hey kids! You've seen him "do the wave" on the Red Sea! You've seen him chat with flaming shrubbery! Now, lay witness as Moses' head bobbles uncontrolably back and forth, to and fro! Just like Charlton Heston's!"

Let me guess - next week's give-away: The Chatty Moses Doll: "Thou shalt not steal second."