Brokeback Mountain's effect on the future of gay-themed Hollywood movies is a major sub-topic in the Brokeback Mountain discussion, one that we feel merits its own thread. Posts on that subject have been moved here.

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Posted by canmark (Member # 149) on December 28, 2005, 02:40 PM:

... someone suggested that the success of Brokeback Mountain may encourage the financing of other gay-themed films, esp. those that have languished in development hell. Brokeback Mountain itself took many years to get produced, as nobody would finance it and no stars would commit to it.

I found that such sentiments were echoed by Outsports feature writer Patricia Nell Warren on the website for The Frontrunner movie, which has been in development literally for decades. It looks like Ms. Warren is now becoming more personally involved with the production of this film and I wish her (and the film) all the best.

Now that we have a movie about "gay cowboys," can a movie about a "gay athlete" (The Frontrunner, The Dreyfus Affair) be far behind? Posted by CPT_Doom (Member # 1027) on January 04, 2006, 11:36 AM:

canmark has been doing a wonderful job keeping us up-to-date on BBM's box office success...

What this box office success should mean, and awards will only strengthen the message, is that \"gay\" movies can make money, if done well and marketed appropriately. Many people have mentioned other plays or books (e.g., the Front Runner) as the likely candidates for the next big \"gay\" movie, but I can't help thinking the next likely production might be \"Take Me Out.\" It is a prize-winning and very successful play, has a subject matter that both appeals to men (sports) and is topical (homophobia in sports), plus it does not concentrate on male/male romance, so should be more palatable to producers (I can't see anyone in Hollywood currently underwriting a love story such as the Front Runner just yet).


Posted by rye67 (Member # 2603) on January 06, 2006, 09:24 PM:

My prediction for the future. (Brokeback Mountain's success) will give wind to the wings of a studio to adapt 'Front Runner' or some such for the big screen. They will provide a larger budget than BrokeBack's $14m, but the movie will not gain the same critical acclaim, and be subject to unfavourable comparisions with BBM, leaving the studio dissapointed and re-introducing nervousness about big-screen gay-themed features. Proving that money can't buy an audience, you need the Brokeback combination of ingredients - great story/screenplay, great director, great acting.


Posted by Anthony D. Langford (Member # 2279) on January 06, 2006, 11:55 PM:

Your prediction might be correct. Or maybe while it might not be as good as BBM, it'll be well recieved and make a little bit of money and open up the notion of seeing more gay themed films with bigger budgets more often. Or even better we'll have more movies of all sorts with promiment gay characters in all sorts of roles and that fact that they're gay won't be a big deal. More than anything that's what I'd like the legacy of BBM to be.


Posted by UMRebel/Bucfan (Member # 1742) on January 23, 2006, 05:16 PM:

NOW, here are the BIG questions that I have. What happens after Brokeback? Does Hollywood follow it up with another \"gay\" film? Where do you find a film that won't be an anti-climax after the success of Brokeback? \"The Front Runner\"? What do us BbM-A 12-steppers do?

Oh my God, I'm havin an anxiety attack!! eek! Breathe in 1,2 and Out 1,2!!! I need to call my BbM-A buddy!


Posted by charliecstl (Member # 59) on January 23, 2006, 07:46 PM:

The Dreyfus Affair is another movie that has been long in the making. My understanding is that Ben Affleck (of all actors) was lined up, but had to move along to do that major thud Pearl Harbor before they could get everything in place.

It would be a great choice for a couple of reasons -- it would tell the story of professional athletes (another final frontier for gay stories) and I think if done right, it would also be very well received. The story was clearly not as haunting as BBM, but it did play to the right senses and emotions.


Posted by ursaminorjim (Member # 88) on January 23, 2006, 08:04 PM:

Yeah, but The Dreyfus Affair just...wasn't very good.

Although, it would be kind-of funny now that Arnold Schwarzenegger is Governor of California.


Posted by UMRebel/Bucfan (Member # 1742) on January 23, 2006, 09:10 PM:

I read The Dreyfus Affair a few years back and wasn't impressed at all. I still have the book around here somewhere. Maybe I should take another look at it. I definitely remember being disappointed after reading it though. Certainly nothing like the feeling after reading \"Brokeback\". I haven't read The Front Runner yet. That may be next on my list.

Does anyone have a suggestion for another book, that could make the short list for a movie, that I might read? It may be up to us to do the research and find the next story to be taken to the big screen.


Posted by charliecstl (Member # 59) on January 23, 2006, 09:50 PM:

I liked The Dreyfus Affair but have already noted it is not the meaty substance of BBM. It still is a story about love and acceptance in a context that would inspire people to think.


Posted by gobar (Member # 2029) on January 24, 2006, 05:39 AM:

My thoughts on a few books that may have at one time been worthy would be Giovannis Room and the Mysteries of Pittsburgh but I don't think either have held up well enough. MoP would be very dated (mid 80's tripe) and GR ends tragically. It may have worked a few years ago but thankfully we're past that. Maybe a try at the Bandstetter detective series? I thought The Dreyfus Affair was a little over the top. I haven't read much gay lit lately though.


Posted by gmginsfo (Member # 171) on January 24, 2006, 10:12 AM:

I'd like to see some returned reality in tales that clearly have a gay theme, like the ones ignored in \"Troy\" and \"Alexander.\" There are SO MANY gay men and women in history whose private lives were central to their public ones, but which have been whitewashed when told onscreen. E.g., \"The Cole Porter Story,\" and even the first Oscar Wilde biopic. \"The Front Runner\" would be great too, but there's A LOT of other material out there just waiting to be properly portrayed. A really serious effort, equally appealing to gay men and lesbians, might deal with Harold Nicolson and his wife Victoria Sackville-West, but that might not have the broad appeal a bio of more widely known figures would.


Posted by UMRebel/Bucfan (Member # 1742) on January 24, 2006, 10:29 AM:

I just wonder if Hollywood will have the balls to produce a gay themed movie that doesn't end in tragedy and where the gay characters aren't married. I'm tired of people getting hung up on the \"infidelity\" aspects of these stories without being able to consider the broader messages. Like the infidelity to one's nature and the fact that a person who lies to and deceives him/herself about his sexuality can hardly be expected to be honest with others about it.

I don't require a \"happily ever after\" film. To me those are pure fantasy no matter what the orientation of the characters. Everyone has problems and obstacles thoughout their lives and relationships. I just want a story where the characters are normal, not closeted (or at least come out) and still alive at the end of the film. Is that too much to ask?


Posted by gobar (Member # 2029) on January 24, 2006, 10:37 AM:

A truly amazing life story that could be portrayed would be that of Gertrude Stein and Alace B Toklas. They knew everybody and lived a very exciting life together. Theirs was a beautiful relationship. I know it's been done before with Linda Hunt but I think it could be revisited.


Posted by gadbearr (Member # 220) on January 24, 2006, 10:58 AM: I really thought the movie "Latter Days" was a happily ever after movie but it took a while to get there and you were exhausted by the time the movie was over. The happy ending was done very well.


Posted by UMRebel/Bucfan (Member # 1742) on January 24, 2006, 11:32 AM:

I really enjoyed "Latter Days" but I don't think it had the universal story that would make it marketable like "Brokeback". I wonder if a movie about a gay character that doesn't involve stereotypes or tragedy can have mass appeal. I don't want to sound like a nay sayer but there are certain realities that have to be considered. Just because straight people aren't interested in seeing a gay romance doesn't necessarily mean that they are homophobic. I hate to admit it but I've watched a couple of lesbian themed movies and I just couldn't get into them. I am hardly lesbophobic and I can appreciate these movies but it doesn't mean that they necessarily appeal to me. Brokeback is only touching mainstream America because of the UNIVERSAL truths in the movie that are expressed through the gay characters but are relateable to anyone IN SPITE of the gay storyline. The gay positive message just happens to be attached to those universal elements and that's why it is having a gay positive impact. The tragic ending is also a big part of the beauty of the movie.

I think that gay themed films will always have a limited market for reasons that have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with homophobia, intolerance or bias of any kind. I will probably never be into rap music or many shows on UPN, but it has nothing to do with racism but is rather reflective of different tastes influenced by culture and lifestyle. At the same time, many of my black friends don't like my Yee Haw country music. That doesn't make them anti-white or anti-country. We have to accept that a lot of gay positive people aren't interested in gay films unless they have storylines that THEY can relate to. That is natural and perfectly fine.

I think gmginsfo is on the right track. Our best bet will probably be a movie with a character who just happens to be gay rather than a gay themed movie. Here! TV recently did a movie about a submarine captain that did just that. The movie was really bad but the idea was good. I would personally welcome such a portrayal and I'm certain that the fundamentalist would hate it equally as much as Brokeback. Nothing gets them hotter than portraying fags as just normal everyday people. Anything that works them into a frensy can't be all bad.

It is going to take one HELL of a story to have a BbM level of marketability to the mainstream. I believe that as we search for that next gay themed story we will come to realize more and more just how incredible Brokeback is.

[ March 12, 2006, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: m1 ]

Posted by UMRebel/Bucfan (Member # 1742) on February 10, 2006, 06:22 AM:

As far as the discussion about the next "gay" film goes, I look forward to seeing any high quality gay themed movie that has a good and credible storyline. Aside from that, I would love to see more movies where a character or two JUST HAPPENS to be gay even if the story itself isn't gay centered. I think the recent movie "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" was moving in that direction. I would love to see characters on the big screen that are just average, everyday people that happen to have partners of the same sex. Not heroes and not villains. They don't even have to be the stars in every film. Is it too much to ask that the demographics of the characters on the big screen look like the demographics of the people in audiences that go to see them?


Posted by UMRebel/Bucfan (Member # 1742) on February 10, 2006, 09:31 AM:

Well it's official. Hollywood is looking for the next Brokeback. As some here have suggested, The Dreyfus Affair may be the next big thing. I read the book a few years ago but I have to say that I didn't much care for it. Maybe I'm "way out in left field" here but I would like to see a gay man featured who isn't married and in the closet. Frankly I'm sick of hearing the wing nuts missing the message of a movie because all they can focus on is the infidelity of the "typical" selfish, deceitful, anti-family homa-sek-shuls.

I've ordered a copy of "The Front Runner". I'm embarrassed to admit that I haven't read it, especially considering the association of the author with Outsports. I don't even know anything about the plot except I think it centers around the Olympics and a gay track star. I don't know if marriage infidelity is a part of the story. I hope not. Anyway I've heard a number of people suggest that this would be a good movie venture. I can't wait to read it.


Posted by Terry in Oaktown (Member # 1646) on February 10, 2006, 09:56 AM:

UMRebel, if I remember correctly, one of the characters in the Front Runner was married but the athlete was not. I loved the book but I'm not too sure how well it will translate to the big screen.

Someone mentioned E. Lynn Harris. I agree that it would be VERY interesting to see how that will play on the big screen.


Posted by Munson Man (Member # 569) on February 10, 2006, 10:23 AM:

What you're looking for is a "post-gay" movie, where being queer is no big deal, it just is what it is. Perhaps something like this high school farce, which goes by the name Another Gay Movie and has been chosen as an entrant in this year's Tribeca Film Festival.


Posted by Tennis Guy (Member # 3443) on February 10, 2006, 10:24 AM:

I read The Dreyfus Affair twice. I remember having very different opinions of it after each reading.

The first time, I felt much more moved by it and really liked all the sports-speak and plot. I'm not sure why, but the second time I read it, I got the feeling the author was just playing it up for laughs, with the dog and the shrink especially.

I still think there were some intense moments in the book, and some are so heart-wrenching:

SPOILERS FROM THE BOOK BELOW!!!

...like when he was telling his young twin daughters that he was leaving mommy, and he broke down crying. And one of them said "that's OK, Mommy isn't going to take you to the cleaners."

This big, tough, jock, however burst into tears at what seemed random times...and that to me, anyway, got old. It didn't seem like it was for laughs or for stereotyping, but to demonstrate a real pressure...but it still didn't make sense to me.

There was some interesting promise at the end of the book that was a good message, and by the way BBM is being accepted by the "cool, secure" hetero guys, the ending of TDA could have been a glimpse into the future. Maybe the author was ahead of his time (remember this was the early '90s) with his prediction of "how it would all blow over"..."it" being the world having to realize that...horror of horrors!!!....big, tough, jock heros can be gay! eek!

I know I'm sending a very mixed message of it, I think I need to read it a 3rd time...and focus a little better!

It would translate well to film, IMO, but not if Ben Affleck took the leading role, as he was slated to do previously.


Posted by UMRebel/Bucfan (Member # 1742) on February 10, 2006, 10:42 AM:

Is there some unwritten literary rule that requires that non-stereotypical gay male characters have to either be married or dating someone who is? It's so common that it has become a stereotype: that all non-stereotypical gay males always marry women and/or stay deep in the closet. I can't think of many, if any, stories surrounding a gay character that don't have this scenario at the center of their storylines. It shows that there is still either a real lack of understanding of the complexities of expression and experiences of gay males or there is just an unwillingness to produce literature or film that projects that complexity.

I love Brokeback Mountain (duhhh) but I see it as a step forward, not the finish line. It's human nature to always want more, to always want better. I think our boys gave us a wonderful step forward but I would hate to see the genre get type cast into the same ole tired “closet romance” or “homosexual affair” over and over again. It will be nice to see that first film where the gay characters are out, proud and single at the beginning of the story. There's romance and awkwardness as they come together. They go through some rough times but at the end they are happy, or at least ALIVE. I know it's possible, I've seen the straight version a thousand times. Now I'm getting greedy! Give us an inch..... (gadbearr, GET YOUR MIND OUTA THE GUTTER! wink )

Munson Man, you're absolutely right. That's a good term for it \"post gay\" and I would like to see more films of this type. Although \"Another Gay Movie\" would not be my idea of an example of what I'm talking about. I said this earlier on this page but I'll repeat it because it speaks to how I would like to see more \"post gay\" movies: Posted by gobar (Member # 2029) on February 10, 2006, 11:09 AM:

Ok I see the next big gay movie thing as a detective thing along the lines of Bond butbased more in reality like Erin Brockavich. Anyone ever read any of the Dave Brandstetter mysteries? Written by Joe or John Hanson. They were always pretty popular books and the lead guy was a middle aged insurance detective who was well put together, refined and lived with his hot young black boyfriend who was a reporter. Good stories and definitly would be adaptable to the screen. Both guys masculine and out, broad stories not very homocentric like some other gay mystery writers.

People could definitly get behind and root for a Bandstetter kind of guy.


Posted by chi-town (Member # 2283) on February 10, 2006, 12:51 PM: Harlan Brown, the coach in \"The Front Runner\" had been married and had fathered two kids, but lost them and his job from a \"scandal\". Billy, his lover and student was just plain non-conventional in up-bringing and attitude. A good read. There's even a sequel, I was surprised to hear, called \"Harlan's Race\".

As for the next \"gay\" movie, I still think that the m2m love story at the heart of the \"Epic of Gilgamesh\" has yet to receive its due. But I guess that's hardly a modern topic.


Posted by gobar (Member # 2029) on February 18, 2006, 09:23 AM:

Has anyone seen the premise for the new movie Freedomland? Unfortunately I think it got made because of the interest from Crash, specifically from the racial disharmony so... after a few months we should see the next things from the interest in BBM. I'd have to think some good actors would be interested in the next wave of gay related movies. Shouldn't be too long now. The thread about gay books to movies has a post about the Dreyfus Affair being bought again recently or some such activity.


Posted by gobar (Member # 2029) on March 10, 2006, 05:39 PM:

This from an article on 365gay.com Is the cat out of the bag? Will he do a good job? He'd better learn to be a better actor before attempting this.

Posted by canmark (Member # 149) on March 10, 2006, 05:57 PM:

Pitt reportedly owns the movie rights to the book?!

As for as I know--according to The Frontrunner movie website--the movie rights belong to Patricia Nell Warren's production company: I think that was a totally made-up gossip piece.


Posted by kick (Member # 829) on March 10, 2006, 06:17 PM:

I would not be surprised that if in the next year or so a less critically acclaimed gay theme movie runs the gamut and takes home a pile of Oscars.

It always seems Hollywood likes to make up for their mistakes....

Also, they seem to enjoy trying to create something- i.e., when Moulin Rouge was nominated for Best Picture, it seemed that was paving the way for Chicago to win when it was nominated.


Posted by gobar (Member # 2029) on March 10, 2006, 06:35 PM:

Canmark I too read that after going all over the place the rights were again owned by Patricia Nell Warren. I just thought maybe this was a new development. It would be really nice if things started moving on some these works, like The Front Runner and the Dreyfus Affair.


Posted by sportinlife (Member # 311) on March 10, 2006, 07:26 PM:

A gracious nod and thanks to Brokeback Mountain from Peter Lefcourt: Looks like good things may be happening. But who is Andrew Lang? And it is still going to be tough to cast DJ Pickett.


Posted by gmjambear (Member # 1911) on March 11, 2006, 02:35 AM: Story concept:
A gay, interracial, spiritual romantic issue-oriented drama with some comic elements set in the present. It has to be an ensemble piece and cost no more than $10-15 million to produce. Also, considering the storyline, the movie could be marketing to various groups.

I would have suggested an all-out comedy that's full of irony and sharp wit but most comedies don't win Oscars.


Posted by kick (Member # 829) on March 11, 2006, 08:34 AM:

Any writers out there?

I have an idea for a movie-

Victor, Viktor Vermont

A gay's man's sister to whom he is very close falls in love with an Argentinean immigrant because her rich and famous husband (politician)lacks steam in the bedroom.

Unfortunately, her immigrant lover is in the process of being deported.

Her gay brother decides to have a civil union with her lover... thus bringing a legal issue forth of whether or not he can stay in the U.S.

The brother's sacrifice touches the immigrant who then decides to share an intimate moment with him as a thank you.

What happens to the relationships- brother/imiigrant, sister/immigrant, sister/husband. What happens to the husband's career if this case and its details come forward? What happens legally- does a civil union hold weight?

I'm willing to cowrite


Posted by fantomas (Member # 230) on March 11, 2006, 11:57 AM: This movie exists already. One version of it is called "Relax...It's Just Sex." It came out in 1998 and was directed by P.J. Castellaneta, who used to write for the "Simpsons" and some other shows (Tracy Ullmann, etc.) Multiracial, featuring lesbian, gay, bi and hetero storylines, and quite funny in places. Check it out.

[ March 12, 2006, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: m1 ]

Posted by jaragonus (Member # 3990) on March 11, 2006, 08:11 PM:

Who is Brad planning to play in the Front Runner- the coach-he looks great but a bit old for the kid?


Posted by kick (Member # 829) on March 12, 2006, 07:46 AM:

If Brad does indeed work on Front Runner, I wouldn't be surprised to see him decide to take more of a director/producer role, ala George Clooney and Robert Redford (whom he worked for in A River Runs Through It).


Posted by Munson Man(Member # 829) on March 12, 2006, 11:22 AM:

The rights to Front Runner are owned by Patricia Nell Warren herself, not by Brad Pitt or anyone else. About six months ago my boyfriend got in touch with her via e-mail and met with her several times. He has produced several movies and has a new movie premiering at the Tribeca Film Festival next month (OK, shameless plug, I know). He's always wanted to produce a movie of Front Runner. Prior to the first meeting he worked up a treatment, some budget parameters, and other info. He met several times with the IOC about using stock footage from the 1976 Montreal Games, and with the RIAA about the rights to some pop music from the mid-70's. He presented all this preliminary work, and outlined his vision to PNW. He sees it as an intimate story with a small budget (hence the stock footage rather than staging Olympic races for the cameras, which would cost a fortune). While he enjoyed his conversations with her, she is adamant that any movie be a more capital-intensive project. She envisions an approach that my boyfriend estimates would cost in excess of $20-25 million to bring to the screen. Also, she is attached to a gentleman that she insists be part of any production package. To make a long story short, the BF respects her vision of what her book should become, but he feels it's economically unviable, that nobody will finance it as currently contemplated, and that we may never see a film version of the movie in PNW's lifetime.

"The Front Runner" looks like one of those projects that is forever in pre-production but is never given an actual greenlight. The only way to get that movie made is if there is star named attached to one of the the two leads. A lot of great material is ruined if not handled properly look at the film version of "Bent" a terrific play which did not make a very good movie.

[ March 13, 2006, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: jaragonus ]

Over the years, there have been many, many rumours about Frontrunner. When the book was first published, there was a lot of talk about Paul Newman playing the coach, and Johnboy Walton (what's his name) playing the runner.

The one point that most people don't realize is that when Frontrunner was first published, the thought of an openly gay Olympic Athelete was like a gay politician.

The story was good in it's day, and brought us a lot of visibility when we needed it, but I think that the premise is now outdated. There are many openly gay Olympic Atheletes, who were out when they competed. I don't think it would have the effect that some want.


There are a lot of great gay books that would be equally great movies. Here are a few that I like

1 "The Lord Won't Mind". A love story set in the 1920's - 1930's. Very similar to BBM in the effect on the 2 protagonists. Don't know if it's still in print.

2 The Naked Civil Servant by Quentin Crisp. I saw the late Mr Crisp interviewed a few times, and apart from the fact that he was "old world" gay, he was a fascinating person. Had he written about 25% of the people he slept with, Hollywood would be a lot less closeted. I think it would make a fascinating movie.

3 Ghandi Dancer. Story about a gay priest falling in love with an Aboriginal American veteren. Touching story, with an ending that no one expects.

4 A book by Helmut something, (I'll try and find the title and author). He was put in Auscwitz/Birkenau for being gay, and when the camp was freed, he and all other gay and lesbian inmates were sent to an allied forces prison for being gay. He wasn't released until the late 1940's. It has the potential to be a great film.

Will edit my post when I find the title.

In 1975, John Hurt played Quentin Crisp in the critically-acclaimed TV version of The Naked Civil Servant. With respect to your suggestion, I would have a lot of difficulty seeing anyone other than John Hurt playing Quentin Crisp.

[ March 13, 2006, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: gmjambear ]

I've made this suggestion before, but I still think turning Dan Savage's "the Kid: What Happened When My Boyfriend and I Decided to get Pregnant" into a movie (although it might play better as a TV film than a theatrical release) could be great. His writing is so funny, particularly his take on the somewhat bizarre situations he and his partner found themselves in when going through the adoption process (e.g., when the two are in a required training course for adoptive parents and the two birth mothers who come in to speak to them about the process talk about how they wanted a Christian family for their baby - the outlook does not look good for a gay couple). But the book also has a poignant, at times heartbreaking, aspect as well, as Dan and his partner get to know the "homeless by choice" teenager who has chosen them to adopt her child, grapple with the possibility of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome because the mother drank during the early part of the pregnancy (she didn't realize she was pregnant at the time), and come to terms with the real sacrifice she is making. Because they went through "open adoption" and therefore the mother has the right to see the child periodically, they know they have a connection to this woman for the rest of their lives.

While the subject matter of gay adoption would probably freak the fundies completely out (and that would be half the fun), a movie version could be one of the few times we see a functioning, albeit quirky, gay couple portrayed, and no one dies!

The key is to finind the perfect combination of screenolay, director and cast.

All I know is that I'd want Ang Lee directing!

CPTDoom that idea is brilliant! I'd love to see that story on film. I've only ever heard excerpts from it but I remember hearing Dan Savage talk on a show about his son not wanting him and his partner to get married (at 6 he said two guys can't get married) but after some discussion he decided it would be ok. I wish I could remember it better but I do remember it was such a touching story and told so well I was tearing up at the end.

gobar -- the marriage story in full is the subject of Savage's latest book, "The Commitment: Love, Sex, Marriage and My Family." That, along with his prior books, are all highly recommended.

Maybe America isn't ready for it, but I would love to see the life story of Esera Tuaolo put to screen. Hard to imagine who could play the part. I am not sure he would want it to happen either. And why wait for "America" any how?

A composite fictional football player based on Tuaolo, Roy Simmons, Jerry Smith and David Kopay would be more doable. Could be better than BBM.

Heck, it might even crack open a few NFL closets.

sportinlife, don't bet on it. Football is definately not ready. I can see the crack opening in baseball or perhaps hockey but not football. I wouldn't mind seeing a movie about gay Marines serving. But then I can see all the comedians turning it into a porn joke. Ah well.

But does it, or should it matter to someone like Esera Tuaolo that "football" is not ready for him to be honest with himself; that they caused him so much misery in his life, and possibly others, by their silence and their greed? I don't think they have any right to use their silly need to stay pristine against association with a work of art because it rightfully sheds light on phobias.

Posted by fantomas (Member # 230) on March 11, 2006, 11:57 AM: Fantomas:

As a matter of fact, I did see "Relax...It's Just Sex" at a fundraiser for the Image/Out Film Festival in Rochester, NY several years ago. It was a good, but not great, comedy. I just hope that there will be more projects that will be given the green light that not only the gay/lesbian community will be able to embrace but a wider audience that Brokeback was able to do.

[ March 16, 2006, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: gmjambear ]

1. Well consider the possibility of making it a fictional account since the NFL probably would not involve their sacred brand name to a movie because of its subject matter, and film it in Toronto, Montreal, Winnipeg and/or Vancouver. (In place of Minneapolia, Atlanta, etc.)

2. Speaking of jokes, another possible story idea. A struggling comedian who is sick and tired of the stereotypical BS and suddenly becomes a success when he comes out of the closet and causes an uproar when he writes a tell-all, scathing book on gays and homophobia in the entertainment field. Hilarity ensues.

It's no secret to anyone here that I loved Brokeback Mountain. I've been trying to find a worthy story that, in my opinion would be a good follow-up project for Hollywood. I just finished reading The Frontrunner. With all due respect to the author, who is a friend of Outsports, to be honest, I liked it but didn't love it.

I said this once before on the Brokeback thread but I think it bears repeating. One thing that I'm pretty certain of is, if we follow up Brokeback Mountain with another movie where one or both of the main characters are married to a woman and cheating on her in a gay affair, we might as well load the gun, spin the chamber and hand it to the religious right to shoot us in the head. Any positive message in such a movie will be completely lost in the backlash that gays are using Hollywood to promote their "agenda" by encouraging infidelity and the turning of happily married straight men into irresponsible, cheating, family abandoning homosexuals. This will also play into their claims that we are trying to destroy marriage and the family.

I'm not saying that their arguments are valid but we have to be realistic. We saw how they totally missed the message of BbM and obsessed over the infidelity rather than what drove the men into hopeless marriages in the first place. I for one am ready for a gay story where the characters are out and proud, instead of closeted and married. Are gays so boring that their romances are only interesting if they're closeted and/or married and screwing each other on the side?

I know that there will never be a gay positive movie that doesn't send the religious right into an anti-gay crusade but I don't think that we should make it too easy for them. I don't think it's reasonable to become overly concerned with them when looking for the next Brokeback but I do think that we should be careful not to blindly play into their gay = anti-marriage/anti-family propaganda campaign.

I grew up with these people, I know how they work. If the next gay movie has a gay man "cheating" on his "wife", they will be VERY successful in selling their "Hollywood homosexuals are trying to destroy the American family and promote men "turning" homosexual, abandoning their wives and children and living a selfish, immoral life in sin" story. America will look at the "trend" and fall for it hook line and sinker. I just don't think that this is in our best interest.

[ March 16, 2006, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: UMRebel/Bucfan ]

I agree with all you've said Rebel. But you and I know Hollywood loves that tragic image of the closeted gay man. If they were to portray gays and lesbians as nothing more than common people then there wouldn't be a story (in their minds at least). The same is true of how Hollywood likes the flamboyant image of the gay man. To them, Jack McFarland (Will & Grace) and Carson Kreeley are images they can sell to mainstream America as opposed to Jack Twist and Brian Kinney (Queer as Folk).

[quote]gmjambear:
Posted by fantomas (Member # 230) on March 11, 2006, 11:57 AM: [QUOTE][qb]
This movie exists already. One version of it is called \"Relax...It's Just Sex.\" It came out in 1998 and was directed by P.J. Castellaneta, who used to write for the \"Simpsons\" and some other shows (Tracy Ullmann, etc.) Multiracial, featuring lesbian, gay, bi and hetero storylines, and quite funny in places. Check it out. [/quote]I am sorry, but this is one movie that does not deserve any endorsements. I would classify it as an |explitive| |expletive| trainwreck. While any movie with Meg Tilly is suspect to begin with, in this film she took her screen persona to new depths. Then there is the scene where a few of the gay characters rape a gaybasher and then go about their lives as if it would have no effect on their psyches. In fact it then moved into one curtain-billowing-in-the-breeze gay romance sequence. I am happy to report that I have never seen the end of this movie because I did walk out of the theater. People in audience were actually laughing during the rape sequence.

I understand what you're saying. At the same time, many from the religious right would never watch a movie with any gay character unless there's a movie that "positively" dealt with the topic of being ex-gay. Having said that, perhaps a satirical dark comedy about a deeply religious family dealing with their son or daughter who's is forced to attend a ex-gay retreat and that person finds plenty of hypocracy would be enough to PO'ed the religious right and others.

Some other possible adaptations to consider:
Mel White's autobiography "Stranger at the Gate".

Also, I have a memoir called "The Truth Shall Set You Free" by Sally Lowe Whitehead. The subtitle reads "A family's passage from fundamentalism to a new understanding of faith, love, and sexual identity." Some gay audiences would have an issue with her story (e.g.: the POV would be from the wife and not her husband) but I believe her story flies right into the face of the bigotry and hypocracy of the religious right.

If there are filmmakers that are willing to look beyond the current gay stereotypes, see the whole picture and not just "play it safe" for the audience, then maybe there will be another breakthrough just like Brokeback.

[ March 17, 2006, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: gmjambear ]

[quote]Frank:
[quote]gmjambear:
Posted by fantomas (Member # 230) on March 11, 2006, 11:57 AM: [QUOTE][qb]
This movie exists already. One version of it is called \"Relax...It's Just Sex.\" It came out in 1998 and was directed by P.J. Castellaneta, who used to write for the \"Simpsons\" and some other shows (Tracy Ullmann, etc.) Multiracial, featuring lesbian, gay, bi and hetero storylines, and quite funny in places. Check it out. [/quote]I am sorry, but this is one movie that does not deserve any endorsements. I would classify it as an |explitive| |expletive| trainwreck. While any movie with Meg Tilly is suspect to begin with, in this film she took her screen persona to new depths. Then there is the scene where a few of the gay characters rape a gaybasher and then go about their lives as if it would have no effect on their psyches. In fact it then moved into one curtain-billowing-in-the-breeze gay romance sequence. I am happy to report that I have never seen the end of this movie because I did walk out of the theater. People in audience were actually laughing during the rape sequence. [/quote]Although I liked the move more that you did, I understand. Not every gay-oriented movie will be a critical and/or financial success. Even some gay people did not like Brokeback for numerous reasons (i.e.: not gay enough). There's no such thing as 100% satisfaction guaranteed.

For the record, I'm not a fan of "Beautiful Thing" or "Billy's Hollywood Screen Kiss" for various reasons.

[ March 17, 2006, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: gmjambear ]

Easy zippy, that's Jennifer Tilly and I happen to love her. There are many good ideas out there for gay films, we could use a well done comedy based on Dan Savages "Kid" story, a gay James Bond ala Dave Bandstetter or Nava's guy. Heck even a well done coming out story with good actors and a good directer would be helpful.

Frankly, I don't want any more gay-themed movies. I just want GOOD movies with gay characters. I want to see a same-sex sex scene that's not used as a plot twist or a punchline. I want to see a queer heroine who's girlfriend doesn't need an explanation or unnecessary commentary from another character. I want to see sexuality presented so matter-of-factly that it's almost unbelieveable. And I don't want to see any more anguished queers wrestling with their desires.

After all, Brokeback isn't going to change minds. Hell, no non-documentary movie can. But now that it's helping keep the discussion open, I hope they can do something better (and, frankly, more positive and real) to follow it up.

I disagree that only documentaries can change minds-a great dramatic film can have a powerfull impact in changing points of view.

[ March 17, 2006, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: jaragonus ]

AAAAAAMEN! APPLAUSE!!!

I said virtually the same thing umpteen pages back on the Brokeback thread.

I too disagree that fiction cannot change mind. On the contrary, it is the only opportunity to present a vision of right when reality is commision of constant wrongs.

There is a reason religious philosophers have always spoken in parables.

And if anguished men cannot "wrestle with their desires" dramatic arts may as well go the way of the horse and buggy. I don't think it'll happen.

It would be great to see a gay theme movie in which the characters homosexuality was not the main issue. It would also be even better to see a gay theme movie in which both lovers survive until the final reel.

[ March 18, 2006, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: jaragonus ]

Anyone watching the "Brokeback Jack" episode of "Will and Grace" tonight?

That could be interesting. I detect some real animosity toward the whole notion of the superiority of gay masculinity on the part of Sean Hayes and if the writers give him something to work with - and his reins - I could see him really going off on Brokeback Mountain.

Gays whose natural behavior is more effeminate have paid dearly to pave the way for gay rights simply out ot necessity and often resent not being respected for it - the BIG GAY SECRET, IMO.

Amen, brother. Why does the gay character have to be annihilated? Why so tragic?

I shudder to think that anyone's looking to or depending upon Hollywood for the next meaningful story about being gay. Having worked in film development at Universal for a couple of years, I remember firsthand the stated desire for good stories and the subsequent and consistent destruction of good stories. It's a commercial business often with good intentions but more often with financial and power intentions. I don't think there's any value in getting into a battle with religious conservatives over film content either. It's so predictable and repetitive. Good and great stories will find their way regardless of those too ignorant to see the value of every human life.

UMRebel, I love that you're looking for good gay stories - a good gay story will not only be specific but universal - It's such a positive active way to proceed...You go!

As as wise woman in LA once told me: "If you don't like the stories or movies that are out there, don't go see them, or better yet, write your own."

I agree that if you want good gay stories don't look for Hollywood just write them- ( the Brokeback Jack episode was lame)

Perhaps non-documentary films do have the power to change hearts and minds and effect social change (particularly in the area of gay rights). Here is an interesting article from Taiwan. [Note: When "Language Pack" prompt displays, click "Cancel"]

In addition to this, Taiwan's President has twice invoked the story of Ennis and Jack, in very positive ways, while speaking to an international audience: Once in comparing the relationship between Taiwan and the USA/Bush and once in describing the relationship between Taiwan and the small island nation of Nauru.

I don't know about in Hollywood but from out here in the real world the prospects of a "good gay story" look pretty depressing when you consider it took straight writers, directors and actors to even get BBM made. What chance would the film have had if all three were gay and the same story had been done? There may be many out there that can work.

Hasn't a version of this idea already been made? The one with the lesbian cheerleader whose parents send her to be "retrained"? The name of the movie escapes me right now, but I remember watching it on IFC or Sundance Channel not too long ago.

You are thinking of "But I'm a Cheerleader...", pretty funny movie, definitely has its moments.

Just started reading 'Walt Loves the Bearcat." NOt very far along, but it might make a good, positive movie.

It is funny when you think of a possible storyline and someone mentions that it's been done. I've heard of the movie but I haven't seen it.

"Untold Decades: Seven Comedies of Gay Romance" by Robert Patrick could make an interesting movie.
The seven one act plays deal with gay male love from the 1920's to the 1980's.