From USA Today

Funny, I was just discussing this with some co-workers about 5 min before I read this thread... Some of the points echoed what I had pointed out earlier...Retract some teams (I propose more than 4...how about 8, and that's for starters) Think about it...25-30 years ago before all this expansion crap where would these players be today? AAA/AA where a lot of them belong...IMHO they quality of big leaguer has decreased...why do you think all these players are hitting all these HR's..steriods, corked bats, hitting against pitchers that should still be in the minor leagues... Next....get rid of the DH, if you can't play in the field too bad, so sad...you're old, & just hanging around for that FAT contract....softball teams use the DH/AH... professional baseball teams should NOT! Lose the Wild Card...we all know it's about an extra round of playoffs & more $$$......leave the season at 162 games....I'm fine with that....I dislike the Intraleague play.....take away from things like the All-Star game....that was one thing I liked about the All-Star game growing up....to get to see players play against eachother who normally would not see eachother....it meant something back then....Whew.....I'll stop for now...have a meeting to attend....Thanks....love this topic...I'm sure many people disagree with me....but that's OK.....

#2 and 3 are silly, and I like the AL-NL All-Star matchup if done the right way. i.e., NO INTERLEAGUE PLAY, unless it's made more symmetrical than the current nutty hodgepodge. The other suggestions are OK.

No... contraction... ever. When is this ever discussed in the other 3 team sports, which have a lot more talent dilution (as far as a non-fan can tell)?

Sport13, most of the expansion took place back in the '60s. In 1969, there were 24 teams, now there are 30. That's only a 20% difference. About 20% of the players now come from foreign countries; I don't know what the percentage was in the 60's, but it was much less. In any event, contracting four teams wouldn't make that big a difference--deal out a bunch of stratomatic cards at random into 26 piles and you'll see that the teams aren't that much better. Now, take a deck of stratomatic cards and deal out 16 teams made up entirely of white, American born players (effectively the talent pool of the thirties and forties). There's no way those players were better than the modern ones, and that's without even getting into population growth, professional coaching at earlier and earlier ages, the effects of weight training. An awful lot of players from the old days would be too small to crack a major league roster today.

And by the way, the biggest expansion in baseball histroy (from 1961 to 1962)--from 16 to 24 teams--resulted in a decrease in offense, not an increase. So why aren't the pitchers feasting on all those AAA batters they now face, like they apparently did in 1962?

I'll go along with you on dropping the DH, and interleague play. The interleague play would work if everybody (or at least everybody in the same division) played the same schedule, and if the two leagues played by the same rules, but as it is, it's unfair.

It is discussed in hockey, not that anyone notices in this country. It could be discussed in basketball if the NBA can't improve its fortunes in the post-Jordan era. It isn't discussed in football because the NFL is thriving.

As for the 10 ideas, I wouldn't automatically say no to any of them. I'm not crazy about a 10-man lineup but it might serve as a compromise between the pro- and anti-DH factions. And as for the All-Star game and extending the break, I think the game should be scrapped entirely at this point. It's a complete farce. But if that isn't happening I don't care what they do with it because I'm not paying attention. I like the rest of the ideas, although they have virtually no chance of happening. And a board of directors including players, owners, umpires...and FANS? Now that's laughable.

Also in that article, was a link to a USA Today article contrasting fan and player opinions on the problems with the game.

Baseball's Problems

What I found inexplicable in this article was the claim that Gallup found that 57% of fans thought Selig was doing a very good or good job. Who are these fans? Here the players are definitely correct. On the other hand, the Gene Orza (players union rep) stance that "competititive balance is as great as it has ever been" is utterly ridiculous. It's quite easy to prove that there was more competitive balance in the '80s.

From the article linked above: Are they insane? That's a serious question: have they, no matter what their race, been standing out in the sun too long? Idiots.

I'm all for contraction, absolutely. There is no reason for the Florida teams to exist, none whatsoever. Position players are not the issue when it comes to diluted talent, it's pitching. The NHL totally needs to contract, as does basketball. The NFL has a quality QB shortage, f**k it, lop 6 teams off there, too.

10 players on a team? Get real. Shorten the season? Yeah, I'm for that, but it'd wreck havoc with record-chasing. There'd be a lot of *'s out there. There's an easy way to get rid of interleague play: get rid of the AL/NL and realign along geographic lines. Texas does not belong in a "Western Division" and the Angels should be playing the Dodgers 18 times a year, not wasting their time playing the Devil Rays any more than necessary.

I haven't watched an All-Star game in any sport in over a decade, so, couldn't care less what they do with that dinosaur.

I'm a conservative, orthodox baseball purist. So I say all the ideas are stupid except #4 and #10.

#1 Shorten the season to 154 games? I'd rather see a round fo the playoffs cut to shorten the total length of the season. If you play even 154 games, the games should mean something. Baseball should not go the way of the NFL, NBA or NHL, where the expectation is that if you crack .500, you've earned a spot in the playoffs.

#2 Contract four teams? Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb. Even if there should be contraction -- and their shouldn't -- contract either two or six teams. Get the leagues back in balance. Don't contract to a random number that perpetuates the imbalance. Besides, unless you contract down to 10 or 12 teams, you'll always be short on pitching.

#3 10-man line-ups? Won't even grace that "worst of both worlds" idea with a response.

#4 Lower ticket prices? Yeah, but baseball is still more affordable than the NBA and NHL and no one is seriously talking about dropping those outrageous prices.

#5 All Saturday games played during the day? Has this man ever been west of St. Louis? Day games in Dallas? And the sun sections in Oakland, San Diego or Anaheim are no picnic either.

#6 Have a longer All-Star break? Baseball is played every day. That's the rhythm. A three-day midseason break is about right (but I'd move it to late July, rather than early July).

#7 Change the All-Star format? The league distinctions barely mean anything now. How does eroding this difference further help rekindle interest in baseball? I guess this could be sold as an appeal to American jingoism, but, really, does that need to be encouraged even more?

#8 Start playoff games earlier? East Coast bias. Starting times already are a little early for us Pacific timers, but we understand the overall need to accommodate the East.

#9 Have a board of directors? Yeah, so instead of just Bud Selig making the decisions, we have a committee of Bud, Jerry Reinsdorf, Jeff Loria and some technocrat from the Tribune Company. No thank you.

#10 Open gates earlier? Ooooh. Now you're talking.

Better ideas:
#1 Speed up the games. Batter must stay in the batting box entire at-bat.
#2 Market the stars, instead of shipping them off to the Yankees, Red Sox, Braves or Mets (as a burial ground).
#3 Limited NFL-style revenue sharing socialism of local TV revenues to improve competitive balance.
#4 More post-game lockerroom shots of semi- (and beyond) naked players. Excluding Matt Stairs and David Wells, of course. (Shirtless batting practice, too, if necessary.) wink
#5 Replacement of Bud Selig with a real commissioner. Total independence not an absolute requirement; Sandy Alderson would be OK.

#1: I'd add making pitchers actually pitch within the time limit or calling a ball, like I *think* the rules allow. And none of those UN conferences at the mound that usually just are an excuse to let the reliever warm up.

#3: Welcome to the Dark Side, Charlie. Chant after me: Socialism is good! Socialism is good! Of course, the Yankees would fight any such moves like a caged wolverine.

The only two places where socialism has seemed to work are Scandinavia and the NFL.

NO NO NO! Say that again, Charlie, and I will personally hunt you down like a dog and skin you alive. :mad:

Sandy must NEVER be allowed to be Commissioner!

1. Turn it into football.

2. Turn it into football.

3. Turn it into football.

4. Turn it into football.

5. Turn it into football.

6. Turn it into football.

7. Turn it into football.

8. Turn it into football.

9. Turn it into football.

10. Turn it into football.

Can I get a reprieve from death row if I changed my #5 to "bring back Fay Vincent"?

You mean a bunch of 'roided pussies who only play 16 times a year? Is that you, Bud?

Oh yes, those baseball players are all so clean!

>1. Shorten the regular season to 154 games.

Shortening the season to 144 games (a better idea) still doesn't
address the real problem of the past decade: not enough off days.

Before the last decade, double headers throughout the season were
common. Now, they rarely happen except to make up early season
games that were rained out.

The reason for no double headers? Money.

If fans have to pay for all 162 games, the "logic" goes, teams
will get more money. But just like hockey has found, the quality
of play goes down because players are constantly tired and often
injured and not up to playing everyday. Add in the problem of
steroids (which renders players less flexible, thus more prone
to injury) things are even worse.


>2. Contract four teams.

A lousy argument.

The real reason there are so many weak teams is because there
are teams like the Yankees and Mets absorbing so much money.
When small market teams can no longer attract and keep talent
(witness the 1994 Montreal Expos, who might have won the World
Series had their not been a strike, or the Pittsburgh Pirates
since their last playoff appearance) fans lose interest.

Fan disinterest is not caused by lack of care by the fans for a
team, it is a lack of concern for the game by the owners. Greed
of a few owners is killing small teams, not the fans.

Additionally, the "talent pool is thinned out" argument is utter
bullshit. There is more talent than ever: Central American,
Canadian, Australian, Korean, and Japanese players are found all
across the majors, along with a large number of college players.
Add to that the number of other countries which may put players
into the majors eventually. There is no end of quality talent.
Read this item on non-US baseball players and be astounded:

A new game face
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...tional_players/

The day when half the Major Leaguers are not American is coming.

The real problem is oversized players and an undersized strike
zone. Take away the advantage of an easy target for big batters,
and everybody will have a shot at winning.


>3.Have 10-man lineups.

Stupidity.

A better idea: increase the size of the strike zone and eliminate
the designated *sitter* (while the team is playing the field).

"Little ball", or hit-and-run as it's also known, is exciting and
makes it cheap to build a competitive club. Steroids would become
unnecessary (and even detrimental) if players were too bulked up
to hit a TV-sized strike zone instead of the shoe box-sized one
they have now. Less power with higher average hitters would be
far more interesting and would help small market teams. Hell, the
owners could turn in an even bigger profit with the lower salaries.
Speed is cheap, and it usually has a better glove.


>4. Lower ticket prices.

No kidding. They need seats in the seats, but as I said earlier,
more double headers (a free game, really) would do just as much
as lower ticket prices.


>7. Change the All-Star format.

You want to change it? Have the World Series champs play the best
of the rest, that's the way the NHL used to do it. The Korean
League's All Star Game is today, and they do it that way. Failing
that, get the Cuban national team to come in and play.


>8. Start playoff games earlier.

This argument has been voiced for decades. As long as money is
doing the talking, the kids will be unimportant.


>9. Have a board of directors.

No. Get a commissioner with absolute power and the balls to get
things done and done right. That's when baseball was strongest,
so to say no is to cater to a petty few, not the good of the game.


Bob Dog