I dont really understand how these baseball negotiations and everything work. But on the radio theyre talking about him like he is everything that is wrong with baseball and he's trying to drive it into another walk out. He will be in Seattle opening day and theyre saying to boo him off the field if he speaks. Is he just a pawn for the owners? Why does he want to force a walkout?

Bud isn't a pawn. He's the voice of ownership. He's their face. (And what an ugly face it is ... literally and metaphorically.)

Bud takes the Viet Nam approach to the business of baseball: he (and a voting majority of ownership) genuinely believe that they have to destroy baseball in order to save it. Bud and his buds want the competitive balance restored through below-market salaries. They want government-provided housing. And they think that by threatening to close down the whole business -- and by showing a willingness to follow through on their suicide mission a la the 1994 World Series -- they will force players and major-league markets to give them what they want.

Bud and his buds genuinely think that fans are mindlessly devoted to the game and that there's nothing they can do to alienate them. Hey, they shut down the World Series and we came back. They hold fans and cities in the same sort of contempt that an abusive spouse holds its victim: how can you respect someone who's willing to let you walk all over them? So, since the fan base will always be there, they are free to play hardball with the players association.

And since the jig was up with franchise relocation, as the last round of expansion left baseball without a viable market to threaten to move to (because of the Angelos/Orioles problem, Washington is not a viable market), Bud and his buds threaten contraction so they can threaten to take teams away if a city doesn't pay the racket the necessary protection money. And they will shut down the game completely to get the right to shut down a franchise.

Fortunately, Congress can always yank baseball's anti-trust exemption, something that the lords of baseball haven't factored into their calculations.

So, to answer your question, no, Bud is not just a pawn.

[quote]Originally posted by Charlie in the Trees:
Bud and his buds genuinely think that fans are mindlessly devoted to the game and that there's nothing they can do to alienate them

---

To add just a note to the brilliant broadside from the Sage of Summerlin, every survey of the fans (from scientific polls to informal talk-radio tallys) indicates that the majority backs the owners - the rationaile offered up is that "the owners at least built their fortunes in real business, while the players are spoiled primadonnas making millions playing a kid's game". My opinion is that the owners take this and think they can play it out to the brink, ignoring the fact that there might be limits to the fan's erstwhile support of a scorched-earth policy....

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charlie in the Trees:
....the last round of expansion left baseball without a viable market to threaten to move to (because of the Angelos/Orioles problem, Washington is not a viable market)....

insightful post as usual, CITT....however, I disagree with you on several points....I DO believe that Bud IS a pawn for all of his fellow owners and the only thing that Selig takes into consideration in his decision making is what will increase the wealth of the greedy MLB millionaire owners who have been his cronies for 30+ years since he bought the Milwaukee franchise (aka, Seattle Pilots)....does any knowledgeable baseball fan truly believe that simply because Bud transferred ownership and the title of team president to his DAUGHTER that Selig is still not directly involved in any key managerial decisions involving the Brewers, who not coincidentally are one of the poorest run franchises in the sport?....despite his claims to the contrary, Selig has NO regard whatsoever for what is in the best interests of the game or, lo and behold, the paying customers/fans who allow these owners (and athletes) to accumulate such enormous wealth....Selig should be removed from office for his long history of inept management (not to mention perjuring himself before Congress last year) but since he is elected by his fellow owners (imagine that coincidence?) Bud essentially has a "lifetime" job as long as he keeps padding the pockets and bank accounts of these owners and keeps them happy, even if it is at the expense of what the fans deserve and what the sport needs in order to continue to flourish --- which baseball has done for the past decade IN SPITE of Selig, not because of him.

CITT, in response to your latter comment regarding DC/Northern Virginia NOT being a viable market because of Angelos and the O's, nothing could be further from the truth....taken from someone who follows this topic closely in the DC and Baltimore newspapers and airwaves, I am more convinced than ever that despite the highly questionable tactics of attorney Angelos involving fielding a competitive team in Baltimore and maintaining comparable attendance (see earlier comments on related thread including Angelos' reduction of team payroll from $84 Million to $41 Million in 4 years despite record revenue for the club) that either the Marlins or Expos (hopefully the latter) WILL be playing at RFK Stadium in 2003 while the new ballpark is being built....anyone who reviews the demographics, enormous per capital income, and strides that the suburban DC market has made in the last 20 years cannot come to any other conclusion than to realize that a MLB team will be enormously successful there and enable the franchise owner (please do NOT let it be Jeffrey Luria and the Marlins after his track record in Montreal as an owner with non-local roots) to reap the benefits, which will satisfy Selig in and of itself....what Bud and his brethren will ultimately be forced to do in order to appease Angelos is compensate Peter handsomely for "relinquishing" his territorial rights, which in reality Peter has no control over anyway since both DC and NoVa are beyond the 30 mile radius of Baltimore as specified in the MLB bylaws and the team in DC will not be playing in the American League either....IMHO anything that can cause Selig OR Angelos any grief or heartache will ALWAYS be in the best interests of the sport and the fans that have supported both their franchises loyally while receiving precious little in return during the long ownership tenures of both of these greedy ogres.

[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: gamecock ]

gamecock ... and other supporters of bringing baseball back to DC/NOVA -- did you see Boswell column last week accusing Angelos of fielding the worst team possible to drive attendance down. " ... Keep baseball out of Washington at all costs -- even if it means fielding a cheap, boring team to kill your own attendance." That would enable him to say "see, I hardly have a viable market now -- just think what a D.C. team would do ..." It also plays into the conspiracy theory that Selig wants the Twins to evaporate so that Milwaukee can add Minnesota to its TV/radio market.

Orioles Show Their True Colors

gamecock:
My rant was running a little long, so I didn't go into detail as to why I said Washington/NoVa was not a viable market.

It's because Angelos (a trial lawyer of the worst kind) will sue the bejeezus out of baseball if they try to locate a franchise within his "territory." Probably claim that there['s a contractual obligation not to infringe on his territorial rights. He'll claim diminution of the franchise's value. And you know what? He'll be right. I think Washington can support a team with Baltimore there, but with a franchise down in DC/NoVa, I don't think Baltimore will remain a viable baseball market (81 home games per year, compared with 8 for an NFL franchise). Sort of like the Oakland/San Fran situation. The San Francisco Giants will be viable regardless of whether there is a team in the East Bay. But the Oakland A's would have gone from poverty to prosperity if the Giants had been moved to Toronto or Tampa Bay back in the 70's.

I think Washington will support a team quite nicely, especially if the franchise is appropriately located in Northern Virginia, where demographics indicate the fan base would be. What about downtown D.C. you say? P-shaw, I say. You need to draw 30-50,000 to the games and you're not going to do that in downtown DC on a week night, given DC traffic. The Wizards draw respectably to the MCI Center ONLY because of one Michael Jordan. And D.C. is a great basketball town.

It'll be interesting to see if D.C. baseball fans are lunatic enough to continue trekking up to Camden Yards now that it's clear that Angelos and the Orioles are the single biggest impediment to Washington getting a team of its own. My guess is that stinky play, rather than duplicitous ownership, will stop more fans from making the trip up 95.

CITT, the attendance at Camden Yards WILL drop dramatically this season, you can count on that -- and don't think that Peter Angelos won't be loving every empty seat....the fans may quit coming due to their horrendous play but, make no mistake about it, that is NOT coincidental -- it is well planned out by "King Peter"....as DCBucky referred to in his link to Tom Boswell's accurate column in the Washington Post last week (which I did read btw, Bucky, and referred to on another thread here last week) slimy attorney Angelos thinks he has it all figured out....he dropped his payroll from $84 Million to $41 Million, refused to go after ANY even moderately priced free agents that could help the team be competitive, all because Peter thinks he'll be there long term and foolishly believes that the O's awful attendance (AND team) this season will show MLB and Selig that putting a team in DC/NoVa would kill his already "floundering" team....this is the most malicious plot by a team exec since that female owner of the Indians in the movie "Major League" tried to tank her club -- the BIG difference is THAT was fiction and as hard as it may be for some to believe we are actually watching a MLB owner intentionally try to field the worst product possible and convince fans NOT to support his club (for one season?) under the assumption that this will benefit him financially long term.

The most ironic part about Angelos' unbelievable scenario is that I honestly don't think it will make a bit of difference anyway....ultimately the only think Bud and the overwhelming majority of the owners (who elected him, not coincidentally) care about is whether putting a team in DC/NoVa will pad the bank accounts of this greedy fraternity (excluding one egomaniacal attorney who happens to reside in Charm City) and I think we all know what the answer to that question will be.

The inevitable outcome of the NL team in the DC market will then result in Angelos being compensated handsomely to "accept" such a move (which he has NO legal right to fight anyway despite his past courtroom successes) only to see Peter reverse his course and once again begin spending countless millions in a futile effort to field a competitive team and regain the loyalty and support of the huge throng of baseball fans that he has lost forever due to his own reprehensible, greedy decision making over the course of the last 10+ years.

I only hope the day comes soon when all the starving, caring fans of our national pasttime get to see baseball return to the nation's capital (with former classy Orioles and Angelos haters Cal Ripken as GM and Frank Robinson as Manager of the former Expos franchise) and let Angelos see firsthand who really will have the last laugh.

[ March 28, 2002: Message edited by: gamecock ]

gamecock:

One follow up question to your excellent points: why dod you say that Peter Angelos has no legal right to sue baseball if they put a franchise in Washington/NoVa? What's the legal theory behind that assertion?

Of course, having no case is no impediment to suing: all you need is the court filing fee and -- voila -- you got a lawsuit. I know that franchises come with a designated "territory" and they must be compensated if another team encroaches on that territory. That's the basis for the San Francisco Giants attempts at preventing the Oakland A's from relocating to San Jose. The Giants annexed San Jose/Santa Clara County as part of their territory when it looked like they would move southward right before Pac Bell Park was built. Given Angelos's threats to sue if baseball moves into DC, I ASSUMED that the Orioles had similar territorial rights over D.C., but I'm only making an assumption here.

I know Angelos will sue. It's what he does. But I have not seen any sort of intelligent analysis of the viability of such a lawsuit. Is D.C. officially disignated by baseball as part of the Baltimore baseball territory? Does the anti-trust exemption help Angelos's case, or MLB's? Somebody, anybody, please do the analysis for me.

CITT -- I read somewhere recently that DC is NOT "legally" part of the O's territory. The article said that their claim only goes to one county south of B'more County -- meaning Howard and Anne Arundel. DC is still buffered then the P.G. and Montgomery Co. I'll try to find the source.

Good question CITT....based upon the discussion that this issue has raised in the local newspapers and on the sports airwaves in the DC/Baltimore area, it has been brought to light that the Orioles territorial "rights" (which I presume apply to all other MLB clubs as well) only extend within a 30 MILE RADIUS....both DC itself as well as ANY of the proposed sites in Northern Virginia (a more viable location IMHO given the enormous population base and per capita income level in the NoVa suburbs) are 45-50 miles or further from downtown Baltimore and Camden Yards....while it would not surprise me if Angelos still threatened litigation (given his profession and track record of success in the courtroom, even if the tactics he has employed to achieve those "victories" have been questionable at times to say the least ) despite the undisputable mileage proximity outside of his territorial rights, I still think MLB will simply compensate Angelos handsomely (perhaps in the 8 figure range) to convince him to "accept" their relocation arrangements and avoid any threat of a lawsuit, regardless of the facts in their favor.

In a perfect scenario I would almost prefer to see Angelos attempt to sue MLB and LOSE on his own "playing field" (i.e., the courtroom) in order to humble the arrogant attorney....then again, if it was a case involving Angelos vs Selig, neither one of em deserves to win anything....just bring a REAL MLB team back to DC/NoVa and let Peter suffer the consequences, lawsuit or not.

[ March 29, 2002: Message edited by: gamecock ]

Bug Zelig is nasty! How I wish we the fans could vote him out of office. I think it'd be cool to have baseball in DC/NoVa. Would the team be called The Senators?
The O's owner sounds like some bitter queen who can't get his way-awww poor baby! Let Bud fix you right up. Do these people think we're dumb? Geesh! Baseball IS the thinking person's sport after all.
I think Sparky Anderson should be Commish. Whatta guy!