Hey, occasionally baseball players CAN see the forest for the trees!

Newsday

(of course, A-Rod at #3 is silly; he's truly worth every penny, and would be a bargain if he was still playing shortstop.)

Good, fair-minded take on this from the NY Sun's Tim Marchman:

For what is worth, I don't agree. An opinion poll completed by other baseball players? It's contract jealousy, plain and simple. Had the poll asked who was the most over-paid (as opposed to over-rated), you could make a case for A Rod because he routinely chokes in the playoffs and strikes out, grounds out, or flies out from just the mention of a Boston pitcher. But Jeter overpaid and/or over-rated? No way! That dude is a clutch playoff hitter and has balls of steel. If you want to talk Yanks who are over-rated and over-paid, you'd have a better case against closer Rivera or starter Randy Johnson. Some games, these guys don't show up at all; Randy gets rocked regularly and Rivera is now blowing saves he used to execute with ease (remember the playoff against Boston last year, when Rivera lost both his save opportunities?).

Thomas, you might want to reread that column I linked. A-Rod is a stupendous player without whom the current Yanks wouldn't reach the playoffs, his postseason perf is what analysts call a Small Sample Size. Jeter's range at SS is pretty awful, and I remember his clutch errors when the Angels sank the Yanks in the playoffs a few years ago.

Jeter proves his worth and mettle every time he steps on the field. The Yankees won four World Series championships (1996, 1998-2000) with him as shortstop, while they have not won one with Rodriguez and his prodigious bat at third base. (And Seattle and Texas never got to the World Series with Rodriguez at SS either.) Though some people may have an obsessive fixation with Jeter's foibles (or the Yankees in general), the reality is that he comes out every day ready to play, and his bat and glove were absolutely crucial to the Yankees' string of championship victories several years ago, and continue to be crucial to the Yankees' successes.

Classic Yankeefan thinkin' (that 'comes to play' stuff -- John Sterling? Luis Sojo has more rings than A-Rod, too.). Of course Jeter was crucial, but so were other players, and 'his glove' was an overall impediment.

You are overlooking the role of luck in the run of '96-00 postseason success. Is Jeter just as culpable for the last 5 trophyless seasons?

[ May 12, 2006, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Bill W ]

Bill, once you take a position, there's just no room for arguement with you, dude. Just ask Steinbrenner to identify the best player on the team. I'll bet he'd say Jeter. Yeah, Jeter is about his business, but is also a dedicated team player; something A Rod, a prima donna in Texas (and New York too) if ever there was one, is just now learning. Why are you ragging on Jeter? If you want to discuss under-performing, we should be talking about A-Rod, aging and disgruntled Yankee pitchers, and the recent batting problems of Matsui. Also, I'm still not convinced how much the Yankees will get from Damon. Only time will time.

Bill W has an animus against Jeter, and consistently slams him. No matter what he says, though, or how many statisticians he cites, it's clear to Yankees fans that Jeter has proved his worth and mettle time and time again. His glove hardly hurt the Yankees during that brilliant 5 year run, and his bat, his baserunning and his developing leadership were crucial. The cast has changed and the Yankees' pitching has not been as consistent since then, and yes, luck ALWAYS plays a part, but without doubt, Jeter was critical and central to those incredible teams. How crucial? In 10 league div series, he's batted .358 and scored 29 runs; in 7 league championship series, he's batted .262 and scored 25 runs; in 6 World Series he's batted .307 and scored 27 runs. In the 2000 World Series, Jeter hit .409, with 2 homers and scored 6 runs.

Also, Jeter's lifetime SS fielding percentage is .275, just two points lower than A-Rod's at short, at .277.

A-Rod, for all his talent, has yet to make the sort of championship impact Jeter has. Hell, A-Rod couldn't even help the American team during World Baseball Classic. He's a beauty, but he makes Dave Winfield look like Reggie Jackson come playoff time.

[ May 12, 2006, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

Curt Schilling in an ESPN interview recently said the one guy he hated to face in the Yankee lineup with the game on the line was Jeter...I think a lot of other pitchers would agree...

Jeter might not be the best talent on the field... what makes him such a value to the Yankees is that he seems to make everyone better. He is able to pump the entire team up and make them play their best. These intangibles are even more valuable.

I'd say the key term there is seems. That's a wild assertion with no proof; I'm interested in FACTS. How do you know Jeter makes other players better? \"Intangibles\" are things no one can prove or quantify.

Uhh, I'm guessing those numbers are .975 and .977?

Fielding percentage is a crap statistic, which you'd discover if you read the article I linked. It only measures balls a fielder gets to; one of DJ's weaknesses is the many he doesn't reach. Athough he really botched one right at him yesterday, didn't he?

Again, I'd say Jeter has been consistently among the 20 or 25 best players in the majors throughout his career. What he's never been is one of the 3 or 4 best, which is what his factually indifferent worshippers would have you believe.

Re postseason performance: Look up Willie Mays' World Series record sometime. Not too good, but no one calls him a 'choker.'

Yep, the twos should be nines. .975 vs. .977.

If Bill tries to buttress his point about Jeter's problems at SS by bringing up the errors that he and A Rod made this weekend against Oakland, make sure you remind him of the number of home runs Jeter and A Rod put up in the series (except for the last game). It proves what you, David, and buccoman have been saying: yeah, these guys commit errors, but can afford them, because they are competitive enough, and talented enough, to hit their way out of trouble.

Overpaid maybe, but not overrated. I was convinced of Jeter's worth during the '00 or '01 playoffs against the A's when he made one remarkable play after another, including that memorable play to tag Jeremy Giambi out at home plate. The guy brings a unique presence to the field.

I wish it wasn't true, but he's worth every penny to the Yanks and I'd be thrilled to have him playing with the same passion for my team.