With the Philadelphia Phillies season ending tonight in the South Florida rain, it's not too early to start speculating on who won't be back next year for a team that fully expected to win the division after it's wallet-opening off-season. Who'll be gone?

David Bell? The second biggest free agent signee was an utter disaster, batting only .195. Hardly good enough to make people forget that Larry Bowa ran Scott Rolen out of town last year.

Kevin Millwood? One-year rental, y'gotta think he'll be looking to move somewhere less dysfunctional.

Jose Mesa? This team will never win a pennant as long as Mesa is mucking up the bullpen.

Pat Burrell? Under-achieved miserably and his good buddy Tyler Houston was released as the pennant race hit the home stretch -- despite being a top pinch hitter -- either as a wake up call, or as an act of displaced anger by Larry Bowa. It's getting pretty clear that Burrell and Bowa cannot be in the same dugout. Which leads to ...

Larry Bowa? Second straight year the Phils underperformed relative to expectations. Is it the manager? Bowa didn't handle the pressure of the pennant race all that well (see above comment re: Tyler Houston). But Philadelphia fans love 'im and, besides, they're probably a lot angrier right now at Andy Reid, so it's unlikely there'll be a groundswell to rid the team of his presence.

Even though their overall record will end up being pretty good, I can't imagine that anyone on this roster is guaranteed to be back next year except Thome.

[ September 25, 2003, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: Charlie in the Trees ]

Millwood never sold his house here in Atlanta -- all speculation is that he probably returns to the Braves next year (since Maddux probably will be gone). Yeah, Philly's fans may love Bowa, but bottom line is that when they needed wins, they dropped two out of three TO THE REDS (no excuse for this) and they couldn't beat the Marlins. If his team had turned on him and they'd won anyway, that'd be one thing. When a team turns a manager and then they lose, this doesn't bode very well for his chances of returning.

First, the Braves can have Millwood back. He proved to be quite overrated. He's no ace. He isn't worth the money he's going to get from whichever team signs him.

Second, you focus on two games against the Reds. To pick out those games isn't really significant. More significant would be the games against the Marlins.

As for Bowa, the whole team didn't turn against him. And even if they did, he isn't going anywhere.

I am one Philly Fan who doesn't like Larry Bowa --he was a great player but he is not management material. He failed at San Diego and he has failed in Philadelphia. There is plenty of blame to spread around, Burrell, Mesa for sure but in the final analysis the team did not show up when needed and that is the Manager's fault.

While the fans love his intensity -- it takes a huge toll on a team. The ranting, raving, screaming, conflicts with the players and overall behavior is detrimental. I have taken a great deal of heat with this statement in other circles but I believe it to be true -- the Phils will NEVER win with Larry Bowa.

I love watching these manager dramas play out. Terry F.: too mellow, not enough of a disciplinarian. Bowa: Clinically insane, makes the entire team tense. Somewhere in the middle is the manager the Phillies need.

And Joe, don't say that about Millwood! The Angels are fired up to sign him. Well, him or Bartolo Colon.

My point is that if they'd dropped two of three to the Reds, a VERY beatable team, in, say, July, nobody would have said anything. But if you have aspirations to get to the postseason, you CANNOT drop two out of three to marginal teams in September -- you HAVE to beat those teams when you get the chance.

The good managers know what they have to do in September to get it done. Dusty Baker, Joe Torre, Jimy Williams, Ron Gardenhire, they all know how to do it. Bowa doesn't. Great shortstop, terrible manager. He needs to go. Whether they actually fire him or not is a different story, but he needs to go.

I saw where the phillies were on 12-16, or something like that, against the really bad teams... you cant pick those last 2 games...

I have mixed feelings about Bowa. I do like the fact that he has spark to him unlike Francona who was a dead fish. On the other hand he may have carried it a bit too far for his clubhouse's liking. I doubt he will be let go this offseason.

That being said, here are the changes I would like to see.

Let Millwood go to free agency and have the Phillies use his money to get a true number one starter, one that can stop a losing streak.

Away with Mesa, Williams and maybe even Wendell. Get a proven closer in the open market.

I am hoping Burrell will revert back to his 2002 days and hopefully can be placed between Thome and Abreu. He is still young so I am not ready to give up on him yet.

If David Bell was tradeable I might do it. Although he did not play much this year I was never really sold on him. Polanco can play third just as well and is a better hitter. If Polanco is placed at third then Utley may be ready to put in a full year.

[ September 26, 2003, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: phillyrunner ]

That's idiotic. We've seen plenty of terrible managers, and Bowa isn't one of them. People let their own biases over his so-called behavior cloud their judgment.

How brilliant was Joe Torre with all of those other teams he managed before he went to the Yankees? How many World Series titles has Dusty Baker WON? How about Gardenhire? And where exactly IS Jimy Williams? I don't even know.