Right, FCMN, and not only that he lives right here in a suburb of SD, where we're all as pure as the driven sand! wink

What has yet to be explained is why, if Landis was doping, his testosterone/epitestosterone ratio was so out of whack only in this one test. Samples taken earlier in the Tour de France proved normal. Did Landis use steroids only after his poor showing in the 16th leg? Surely he's not that stupid. I wonder whether Landis is going to call for a DNA test to determine whether the tested samples are indeed his urine.

~Adam

[ August 08, 2006, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: Adam ]

Thank you Adam for a sane posting on this subject. The media is so quick to judge as are even people here on outsports. The whole thing just doesn't make sense. It would be suicide to dope up in the middle of the damn race because you know you're going to be tested. This is all about the French Officials having it out for the Americans.

Sorry, but it makes perfect sense to me. After his disaster in stage 16, Landis was a desperate man without hope...unless he cheated. He probably figured there was a chance he'd get away with it (I'm sure there are other dopers in the Tour who haven't gotten caught). And desperation can lead to some terrible decisions.

For those of you who remember the Tyler Hamilton debacle, I'm just waiting for Landis to pull out the excuse that it was his "disappearing twin's" urine.

Still, I have been wondering about potential sabotage. Is it possible? It has only marginally been addressed in the mainstream media.

But again, going back to the comment, to paraphrase "why dope it up in the middle of the race, only for certain to be caught?" I am curious about this too. Is it possible that somebody could have sprayed or applied androgel to the bike seat? I put androgel patches in the clothing?

Help me heres my dears! Don't want to believe it!

Are the French officials sick of Americans winning the Tour? Spiking of urine samples?

Why do I think Landis is guilty?

I didn't want to believe it at first either, because I really liked Landis. He struck me as the "anti-Armstrong": genuine, humble, modest, liked by all his peers, no bitter ex-wife, no celebrity girlfriend, etc.

But these sabotage theories are the last refuge of a scoundrel, and we've heard so many lame ones before. Justin Gatlin (the runner) claims his massage therapist rubbed him with testosterone cream. Then there's the common "spiked toothpaste" claim by Olympiads caught red-handed. It gets embarrassing after a while to read the contorted excuses these people concoct.

[ August 08, 2006, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: LarryC ]

Caught the tail end of Landis' appearance on Jay Leno's show last night. Here's a bit of a recap.

From VeloNews:

Maybe he got one of those patches for more than two hours. That would explain his earlier and subsequent tests that were normal. It was a one day "overdose".

He (or someone from his team) could have put it for more time because he had just ended a very bad day and needed more, or he the Jack Daniels made him lost concept of time or feel asleep. eek!

Here's a dry but informative article from VeloNews.com about testing procedures and the standards used to "convict" riders.

This is a letter to CyclingNews.com that speaks to the short-term value of testosterone.

As if this controversy wasn't enough, now word comes that Floyd's father-in-law committed suicide yesterday.

This is a family tragedy. It doesn't need to be national news. I wish the press could resist temptation and just leave these poor people alone.

Floyd Landis is a public figure involved in a major sports scandal. The suicide of the person who introduced him to road racing is news.

Tour de France winner Floyd Landis today posted his defense on his website.There is a link to a PowerPoint presentation that makes very troubling allegations about errors in the French lab's tests of Floyd's samples.



I have no idea if these objections mean he is innocent or if they are enough to let him keep his yellow jersey. But it seems probable that the legal battle will be drawn out for months to come.

I doubt it. He seems to have run outof excuses,none of which explained the synthetic testosterone, so now its has got to be the labs fault.

You may be right. If there was synthetic T in his urine sample, he couldn't argue that his body somehow made it naturally. There would be no excuses for that.

But Floyd's arguing that the sample wasn't his to begin with. His presentation shows the barcode registered to him, and the number on his urine sample: they don't match. There are other objections, but that's the most damning.

I'm not ready to blindly accept his lawyer's arguements just yet, but it makes me wonder.

USAToday: LeMond accuses Landis camp of blackmail

The Landis trial has another week or so to go. At this rate, it could almost rival the Anna Nicole saga.

With the inevitable appeal, there will be no definite 2006 Tour winner by the time this year's event hits the road six weeks from now.

Back in August, I suggested that if Landis is stripped of his title, then:



In a story reported today at VeloNews.com, it seems that Pereiro may indeed have some dirty laundry of his own.

What a bizarre twist with the Greg LeMond testimony.



I'd like to suggest it be awarded to Barry Bonds.

Well this should certainly seal Will Geoghegan's place in the Geoghegan Hall of Fame.

Though maybe not for what he wanted. Well maybe it will be a mere footnote if this doesn't pan out.

In Jim Allen's May 19th Outsports commentary, he stated that "Landis faces a two-year suspension and the possibility of being the first Tour de France winner to be stripped of his title..."

Actually the first winner to be stripped of his Tour victory was Maurice Garin in 1904. The top four finishers were disqualified that year for rampant cheating.

Henri Cornet became the designated winner.

I just read that Landis' manager is checking into rehab. Ugh!

Did I read that Landis was standing next to the manager when he made the phone call to LeMond? If Landis actually played a part in that, what a disgrace.

Landis' position got a boost Monday from two reliable witnesses. The frustrating part in reading these accounts is how to reconcile the testimony of experts who give opposing interpretations of the same data.

Just trying to bring doubts to the trst results. I don't know if the rule is "beyond a reasonable doubt" or the test results start as being considered valid. There was synthetic testosterone found, that can't appear like that out of the blue. Anyway since it is likely going into an appeal, the decision won't be final.

Yes, saw him on tv last night being interviewed. He admitted he was standing next to him during the conversation. He said he felt he needed legal advise before later firing the manager.Guess it didn't occur to him to grab the phone out of the managers hands and apologize to Lemond.

Tuesday's testimony just reinforces my impression that both Landis and the French doping lab are buffoons. I can't help but think my favorite pro sport has been corrupted at every level by big money and the lust for power.

Another big hit to pro cycling: Bjarne Riis has admitted he used EPO when he won the 1996 Tour de France. This is the guy who infamously had a 60% hematocrit but denied doping all these years. As director of Team CSC, he publicly condemned and fired riders who got caught doping, even as he lied about himself.

I keep thinking of Dave Stoller's tearful realization, in the movie Breaking Away: "Everybody cheats. I just didn't know."

Yup. Zabel admitted taking something illegal. Ullrich likely. Basso I'm not sure - it's something like I was planning to but denied doing it?!

I don't know if riders used drugs on long periods of time, but many must have tried it...

Alexandre Vinokourov, who just won one of the weekend stages, was caught for a banned blood transfusion, Is this sport just a joke? Are there any clean racers?

Another day, another Tour rider removed.

Tour de Farce anyone?

I hope the events of the last days turn out to be cleansing is well under way. Teams and sponsors are getting more strict on doping, can install a no doping culture. And in one or two years the doping stories will be behind for the Tour and the cycling is what makes the news.

At least it shows a sport trying to get clean.

The Spanish winner of the Tour de France has now been accused of doping.

All the top tier riders are doping. Big money = big cheating.

While I have my complaints about the way WADA, the UCI and the French doping lab do their business, cycling's anti-doping efforts still put other sports to shame.

Sheesh, now what? This year's Tour is really taking a toll.

Discovery Channel team to disband

Not entirely. Germany's T-Mobile team has decided to continue despite its high profile doping problems in recent years.

And a newly-forming American-based squad, Team Slipstream, is making headlines.



Both teams have committed themselves to strict anti-doping policies. After so much disappointment, we can only hope they're sincere.

The "unsung tragedy" here is what drugs have done to the lives of the clean athletes.

One athlete I know was prevented from racing in the last Olympics because his red cell count was too high. He was clean, but lives at high altitude in Montana. So the cheaters not only steal the medals, they steal the CHANCE to compete.

Moreover, any athlete at a certain level in the USOC program is required to keep checked in at all times, in case of a random, unannounced drug test. Athletes I know can't go visit their grandmother without calling the USOC to say where they'll be. So the cheaters mess up the lives of clean athletes.

The cheaters are at risk as well - we're only now finding out what is going on with some of the East Bloc athletes who took drugs in the 80's - sterility, health problems, babies with dreadful birth defects.... Remember that many of the drugs used are intended for some entirely different, medical use.

The question I ask is why we do sports? I believe we participate because of the joy and growth sports bring to us, whatever our level of involvement. In other words, if you don't enjoy doing it - why do it? And here again, chancing being held out of a race, having to report your movements, being under suspicion - these things take the joy out of sports. And growth through drugs isn't growth.

Nor is cheating this way cheap. After the debacle of the Finnish Team being disqualified at the 1987 World Bordic Championships, it was later discovered that the doping program had cost close to a quarter million. There is big bucks behind drug-related cheating, and some doctors with very questionable professional ethics.

And drugging is hard to catch. The cheaters are always one step ahead of the tests with new drugs. AT Salt Lake, Johann Muehleg was caught because a new test came on line during the games; he had drugged thinking there was no way to detect what he was taking. More money.

WHY we have a drug problem is a complex issue, and there is no single answer, but an atmoshpere where winning is the only thing that's important is one cause - and we Americans are very winning-oriented. Another is money: with all that rides on winning, the temptations are great. (And great for the hierarchy too: at Salt Lake City Johann Muehleg - later caught and his medals removed - was actually prevented from taking a drug test earlier in the games, by a high-ranking IOC member, who said there "wasn't time".)

We are seeing a culture where high-school kids take steroids. Where's the joy in that, or where is even the REASON to do sports in the first place if the pressures are that great, that early?

There's no one solution, but there are several avenues to tackle the problem:

1) More stringent penalties
2) Penalties on the national asociations and coaching staff
3) Strong public outcry to any company which has sponsored a drugged athlete
4) Strong public outcry against the atmosphere of winning-is-everything, big bucks and outrageous sponsorships
5) Personal commitment to clean sports (ie: the personal is the political)
6) Commitment to fostering a sports world where joy is the payment and the goal

Frankly, drugs are one reason I quit everyything but my own training and participation, and support Masters and Junior sports. (To be honest, the other is old age and a creaky body - but I won't admit it!)

Nat

Vinokourov complains about the random testing:

"In cycling nobody respects human rights," said Vinokourov.
The Kazakh rider criticised the way doping checks were carried out.
"You have to say three months in advance where you are planning to be, at what hour and minute. It's not possible," said Vinokourov.
"You know what's happened with Andrey. He went on holiday and they came there at 11pm. I think it's a clear violation of human rights."

Random testing affects personal lives and it is an incovenient for athletes but I don't know how it could be avoided. It's a necessary way to try and catch cheaters.

Sport is not the only domain with drug usage. I was reading some classical musician take drugs to have better performance and calm their nerves for an audition for example.

Also in the UK Guardian an article on drugs and alcohol to manage the pressure of performance.
angst, drugs, alcohol : that's opera

Floyd Landis admits drug use.

How long will it take Lance Armstrong to threaten lawsuits to shut Landis up about him?

Landis has accused Lance, but Lance says "I have nothing to hide." He says there's "not a lot of credibility on the other side." True, but that's what they said about Jose Canseco... and Canseco proved to be right. Clearly, cycling is full of cheaters.

Canseco...did he ever really deny that he was using? spend millions of dollars (or the equivalent) denying it, proclaiming his innocence. He finally admits he's a liar and has been actively lying for years. Then couple sentences later he proclaims Armstrong a liar.

Landis has zero credibility. He could say there's oil leaking in the Gulf...be wise to get 2 other independent sources confirming before accepting.

The comparison with baseball is interesting. Because....not everyone in baseball cheated using PEDs. Many of the best players did not: Ripken, Murray, Gwynn, Maddux (sp), Griffey, et. al. Just because someone is good, at the top even, doesn't automatically mean they cheated. Armstrong might be guilty of having used PEDs, but it would take someone with credibility accusing him. And then supporting the accusation with evidence. Not just jealousy, pettiness, or vindictiveness. That's not Landis.

Floyd accepted half a million bucks in donations from fans for his defense fund. He wrote and sold a book proclaiming his innocence. Now he admits he was lying all along.

The timing of Floyd's confession says everything.

According to a series of e-mails published at CyclingNews.com, Landis wanted to race in last week's Tour of California. The promoters declined to invite his team, because the team could not perform at the high level required for such a high-profile event.

Floyd's confession and finger-pointing were intended to steer the spotlight away from the race and put it on himself. I guess he succeeded.

Most remarkable of all, he actually showed up at the race on Saturday. Cycling News reported that he was protected by four security guards.

Wearing bulletproof vests.

Landis is a piece of sh*t

CBS News: Lance Armstrong blasts CBS' "60 Minutes" report

Tyler Hamilton has a lot of baggage. He's been sanctioned several times for doping. He dragged his appeal all the way to the Court of Arbitration for Sport based on lies and outlandish explanations. He won't be credible to many of Mr. Armstrong's defenders.

George Hincapie, on the other hand, has never stirred the slightest whiff of scandal. He is well-loved by fans and admired by his peers, including Mr. Armstrong. If Hincapie testified that he and Lance used PEDs, then that's the testimony that will sink the Armstrong legend forever. Lance will still be the premier cyclist of his generation, assuming as I do that all his major compeditors were also doping. But the notion that he won clean while everyone else was dirty won't fly anymore.

I still watch the Tour every July, but I don't care who wins. I like the color and the pagentry, the danger and simple grandeur of several hundred cyclists in a pack. I long ago accepted that the event is about profit and power, not sport. The majority of pro riders have been doping for at least two generations, supported by medics and coaches who devised ways to beat the tests. The tragedy is that athletes with exceptional talent -- like Tyler Hamilton, who was my favorite for such a long time -- succumb to pressure, waste their gift, and ruin their lives.

Floyd Landis has been convicted today by a French court of trying to hack into the computer system of the lab that did the drug test he failed which resulted in him losing his Tour de France title. He recieved a 1 year suspended sentence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15673321