As it turned out, they didn't even wait for the end of the season. Apparently Bowa wanted to know if he would be back, so he talked to GM Ed Wade and Wade told him they were letting him go.
(edited to change title of thread)
[ October 13, 2004, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]
Full Version: Phillies' managerial sweepstakes!
How silly. Why not do it after the season, that is, Monday? Poor Joe: Frankotite and now Bowa.
At first I thought how bad it was that they didn't wait till the end of the season to let him go. However, it appeared once Bowa confirmed with Wade that this would be his last year, Bowa decided to leave immediately.
There seems to be a weird parallel with former Philadelphia players becoming head coach and then getting fired. In the cases of Bowa and Bill Barber of the Flyers, both did not get along with their players but were generally liked by the fans.
[ October 03, 2004, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: phillyrunner ]
There seems to be a weird parallel with former Philadelphia players becoming head coach and then getting fired. In the cases of Bowa and Bill Barber of the Flyers, both did not get along with their players but were generally liked by the fans.
[ October 03, 2004, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: phillyrunner ]
We all knew that Larry Bowa was going to be fired. But it seems like Phillies' management could have waited until Monday to discuss all of this. Bowa would have managed the final two games if the subject was left alone for two more days.
[ October 03, 2004, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Cattledog ]
[ October 03, 2004, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Cattledog ]
QUOTE
Cattledog:
We all knew that Larry Bowa was going to be fired. But it seems like Phillies' management could have waited until Monday to discuss all of this. Bowa would have managed the final two games if the subject was left alone for two more days.
Bowa started the conversation. He asked Ed Wade if a decision had been made about next year, and Ed Wade gave him an honest answer. It was the Phillies intention not to announce this (and inform Bowa) until after the season was over, but I assume Ed Wade wanted to be upfront with Bowa and not play any games. We all knew that Larry Bowa was going to be fired. But it seems like Phillies' management could have waited until Monday to discuss all of this. Bowa would have managed the final two games if the subject was left alone for two more days.
At today's game, fans were chanting "We want Bowa" and a number of fans had signs upset that Bowa was gone and also upset that Ed Wade is still around. It is kind of sad that the fans didn't have a chance to say goodbye to Bowa.
That was my final warm-and-fuzzy feeling of the season, when Gary Varsho came out to argue the call and the "We want Bowa" chant arose, followed by the "Fire Ed Wade" chant. I've been waiting all year for that one!
Scary news: among the names floated as possible replacements by the media: Grady "I think I'll leave Pedro in even though he's clearly done" Little and Jim Fregosi. Yes, THE Jim Fregosi, who got lucky in 1993 but had losing records every other year as Phils' manager.
The Phillies are in a danger zone now. Speculation is that ownership will not authorize $93 million in payroll again, so it's hard to imagine too many free agent signings unless they're willing to sign cheap or unless the Phillies let a bunch of their veterans (such as Millwood, Polanco, Milton and Lidle) go elsewhere. The minor leagues are in danger of slipping back to where they were in the mid-90s. While the players they consider their top 3 or 4 prospects were stubbornly held on to, a bunch of the rest of them were let go in the deals that were made. The minor league depth is gone.
So for better or worse, they're going to have to pretty much stick with what they've got (unless some team is willing to wildly overpay for someone like Pat Burrell).
The only good thing we know for sure: these crybabies no longer have Larry Bowa as an excuse for their miserable underachievements.
Scary news: among the names floated as possible replacements by the media: Grady "I think I'll leave Pedro in even though he's clearly done" Little and Jim Fregosi. Yes, THE Jim Fregosi, who got lucky in 1993 but had losing records every other year as Phils' manager.
The Phillies are in a danger zone now. Speculation is that ownership will not authorize $93 million in payroll again, so it's hard to imagine too many free agent signings unless they're willing to sign cheap or unless the Phillies let a bunch of their veterans (such as Millwood, Polanco, Milton and Lidle) go elsewhere. The minor leagues are in danger of slipping back to where they were in the mid-90s. While the players they consider their top 3 or 4 prospects were stubbornly held on to, a bunch of the rest of them were let go in the deals that were made. The minor league depth is gone.
So for better or worse, they're going to have to pretty much stick with what they've got (unless some team is willing to wildly overpay for someone like Pat Burrell).
The only good thing we know for sure: these crybabies no longer have Larry Bowa as an excuse for their miserable underachievements.
Ironic: ESPN2 has "The Season: Philadelphia Phillies" on right now! wink
Press release from the Phillies regarding the rest of the coaching staff:
QUOTE
**Milt Thompson (first base), Gary Varsho (bench), Ramon Henderson (bullpen) and Mick Billmeyer (major league catching instructor) will be retained for the 2005 season.
**John Vukovich (third base), the longest tenured Phillies coach with 17 seasons, has been offered a position as Special Assistant to General Manager Ed Wade. \"Vuke is considering the offer, but wants to give it some more thought. I told him there is no deadline for making a decision,\" said Wade.
**Greg Gross (hitting) has been informed that his status with the Phillies will be determined after a new manager has been hired. Gross has been given permission to explore opportunities outside of the organization.
**Joe Kerrigan (pitching) informed the Phillies late last week that he will not seek an extension to his expired contract.
Why anyone would even consider retaining Greg Gross and taking John Vukovich off the field is beyond me, not to mention that the new manager isn't getting to choose all of his own coaches.
**John Vukovich (third base), the longest tenured Phillies coach with 17 seasons, has been offered a position as Special Assistant to General Manager Ed Wade. \"Vuke is considering the offer, but wants to give it some more thought. I told him there is no deadline for making a decision,\" said Wade.
**Greg Gross (hitting) has been informed that his status with the Phillies will be determined after a new manager has been hired. Gross has been given permission to explore opportunities outside of the organization.
**Joe Kerrigan (pitching) informed the Phillies late last week that he will not seek an extension to his expired contract.
Larry Bowa did a TV interview and said that he believes the Phillies made the decision before the season even started to fire him if they didn't make the playoffs, even though Ed Wade told him back in August that no decision was made.
Bowa fires back
Bowa fires back
QUOTE
Joe in Philly:
Scary news: among the names floated as possible replacements by the media: Grady \"I think I'll leave Pedro in even though he's clearly done\" Little and Jim Fregosi. Yes, THE Jim Fregosi, who got lucky in 1993 but had losing records every other year as Phils' manager.
And indeed, both Little and Fregosi will be interviewed for the job this month. Don Baylor was interviewed yesterday, and today is Charlie Manuel's turn. Now it's reported that another candidate will be interviewed: Buddy Bell, David's father, whose winning percentage as a manager is .428. So he'll fit right in. Scary news: among the names floated as possible replacements by the media: Grady \"I think I'll leave Pedro in even though he's clearly done\" Little and Jim Fregosi. Yes, THE Jim Fregosi, who got lucky in 1993 but had losing records every other year as Phils' manager.
It never ceases to amaze me how managers get recycled no matter how bad their record or how many times they're fired. Meanwhile someone like Willie Randolph, who's interviewed for perhaps a dozen managerial openings, has yet to get a chance at managing.
There's one candidate that the Phils haven't identified publicly. Some speculation is that it's Randolph and they haven't announced it since his team's season is still going on.
Terry Pendleton has been added to the interview list. For what it's worth, and for me it's worth nothing at all, Tim McCarver endorses Jim Fregosi for the job.
Terry Pendleton has been added to the interview list. For what it's worth, and for me it's worth nothing at all, Tim McCarver endorses Jim Fregosi for the job.
I have also heard that Willie Randolph is available but the Phillies have shown no interest. Somewhere I heard that the Mets were more likely to interview him.
I listened to Howard Eskin tonight talk about the Phillies. He apparently beleivea that Grady Little is now the frontrunner for the Managers position.
He also mentioned that Dave Montgomery without including Ed Wade, has been asking around the league what others thought of his team's make-up. Howard seems to think that short of making the playoffs next year, this could be Wade's last.
Finally Howard claims the reason Wade could not make a deal for Shilling when given the opportunity, was because Dave Montgomery had nixed the idea of Shilling's return.
He also mentioned that Dave Montgomery without including Ed Wade, has been asking around the league what others thought of his team's make-up. Howard seems to think that short of making the playoffs next year, this could be Wade's last.
Finally Howard claims the reason Wade could not make a deal for Shilling when given the opportunity, was because Dave Montgomery had nixed the idea of Shilling's return.
While they're considering recycled managers, they need to throw Jeff Torborg into the mix. He's managed 5 teams and only twice had a winning season. Makes Fregosi look like a winner by comparison... 
I think Eskin is off-base, especially with the Schilling info.
Today on Comcast they said there was a report that a former Phils coach, Brad Mills (now coaching with Boston with the same manager he was with when he was here wink ) was a candidate, but both Mills and the Phillies denied it. They also said that the unnamed candidate is not currently in the playoffs, which would mean it's not Willie Randolph.
Today on Comcast they said there was a report that a former Phils coach, Brad Mills (now coaching with Boston with the same manager he was with when he was here wink ) was a candidate, but both Mills and the Phillies denied it. They also said that the unnamed candidate is not currently in the playoffs, which would mean it's not Willie Randolph.
The unnamed candidate has a name: John Russell, Pirates third base coach (and former Phillie catcher back in the 80s). Yawn.
Joe Torre might be available.
And I'd hire Torre in a heartbeat. But the Phillies wouldn't, and that's the problem. This morning on the sports talk station the hosts were discussing how they've taken more non-Phillies baseball calls this week than ever before, and that they now realize that even with the Eagles domination, Philadelphia is a baseball town. It's just that the ownership of the Phillies has run the franchise into the ground.
Hands off Joe Torre! eek!
Seriously, I think even Steinbrenner realizes he can't fire Torre. The fans would burn Yankee Stadium down (although this morning my doorman DID say he wanted to wring Torre's neck), and it would tarnish the image Steinbrenner has tried to burnish now that he's approaching 80. However, I do think Cashman is teetering on the brink, and I think he'd welcome being fired.
Seriously, I think even Steinbrenner realizes he can't fire Torre. The fans would burn Yankee Stadium down (although this morning my doorman DID say he wanted to wring Torre's neck), and it would tarnish the image Steinbrenner has tried to burnish now that he's approaching 80. However, I do think Cashman is teetering on the brink, and I think he'd welcome being fired.
This morning on WIP sports-talk radio there was a mention of "multiple reports" that Jim Leyland might be interested in the Phillies' job. Meanwhile, this was in today's Phila. Inquirer:
QUOTE
\"I do owe a conversation with one more individual who may end up on the list,\" Wade said. \"I'm not sure what level of interest there is at this point. I'll probably know more after we talk again. If it's to the degree that I think it is, we'll probably schedule something for later this week.\"
Wade said he might have a second round of interviews, but that after meeting with president David Montgomery at the end of the week, he might decide he has enough information to make a decision.
The eighth candidate could be former Toronto manager Carlos Tosca, whose name has been discussed over the last few days in the baseball community as a possible last-minute candidate.
Wade said he might have a second round of interviews, but that after meeting with president David Montgomery at the end of the week, he might decide he has enough information to make a decision.
The eighth candidate could be former Toronto manager Carlos Tosca, whose name has been discussed over the last few days in the baseball community as a possible last-minute candidate.
From Bowa to Leyland. That's like going from Saddam Hussein to Mother Teresa.
The Phillies are bringing in candidates for manager like a revolving door. Some believe it is just to get a reading on what the public thinks of each one so that they make the "popular" choice. I don't think the Phillies really know who or they want and are hoping if they interview enough candidates the right one will rise to the top.
I don't think there's a popular choice among any of them. I certainly don't have any preference (except that it not be Fregosi). If that's their plan, it's a stupid one.
Update: Phils to interview Jim Leyland on Monday
[ October 26, 2004, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]
Update: Phils to interview Jim Leyland on Monday
QUOTE
Leyland has been a major league scout for the St. Louis Cardinals since 2000 and is based in Pittsburgh, where he lives with his wife Katie and their two children, 13-year-old Patrick and 11-year-old Kellie. Leyland scouts games from PNC Park in Pittsburgh and Jacobs Field in Cleveland.
Leyland has indicated in the past that he isn't interested in returning to managing because he wanted to stay close to home. But he has told people that he would return for the right situation.
The Phillies could be it.
\"To be honest with you, my family is very much encouraging me to do this,\" he said. \"My wife, my daughter and my son all want me to pursue it. They all know the fire is burning and they're all excited about it. . . . It's a good-looking ball club with a beautiful new stadium close to my home.\"
In fact, it appears Leyland has told the New York Mets that he wants to wait to interview with them until after he meets with the Phillies.
Leyland has indicated in the past that he isn't interested in returning to managing because he wanted to stay close to home. But he has told people that he would return for the right situation.
The Phillies could be it.
\"To be honest with you, my family is very much encouraging me to do this,\" he said. \"My wife, my daughter and my son all want me to pursue it. They all know the fire is burning and they're all excited about it. . . . It's a good-looking ball club with a beautiful new stadium close to my home.\"
In fact, it appears Leyland has told the New York Mets that he wants to wait to interview with them until after he meets with the Phillies.
[ October 26, 2004, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]
Leyland had his interview yesterday. Comcast Sportsnet said last night that he's the favorite for the job and that he doesn't want the Mets' job. Buzz Bissinger, the "Friday Night Lights" author who has some connection to Leyland through another book, said on WIP radio this morning that Leyland wants the job but also wants to hire his own coaching staff while the Phils want the coaches currently still employed.
If the Phils are stupid enough to let him get away because of the coaching staff, how are they going to spin it? They can't possibly say that Grady Little or anyone else is the most qualified candidate.
If the Phils are stupid enough to let him get away because of the coaching staff, how are they going to spin it? They can't possibly say that Grady Little or anyone else is the most qualified candidate.
The Phila. Inquirer and Comcast Sportsnet both are reporting that Charlie Manuel will be named the Phillies' manager tomorrow. Let the spinning begin!
I hope the Phillies have done a thorough background check on him to they don't gett he suprise the D-Backs received with Backman--spousal abuse, drunk driving, and a night in jail, all of which he failed to mention during his interviews!
~Adam
~Adam
A poll at Philly.com -- yeah, maybe we're sick of polls, but... wink
Are you satisfied with the choice of Charlie Manuel as Phillies manager?
Yes, he's a credible pick - 616 votes (23%)
No. Didn't Jim Leyland say he wanted this job? - 2100 votes (77%)
Are you satisfied with the choice of Charlie Manuel as Phillies manager?
Yes, he's a credible pick - 616 votes (23%)
No. Didn't Jim Leyland say he wanted this job? - 2100 votes (77%)
Everyone knows that Jim Leyland was the right candidate with the best credentials for the job. Obviously Charlie Manuel was hired because he presented the path of least resistance for Phillies management and players, not to mention his closeness with Jim Thome.
But alas Phillies fans, all is not lost. As one of the Daily News Live panel said tonight, "If Terry Francona can bring a championship to Boston then anything is possible here". Yes you've heard all it before sportsfans, When Pigs Fly...
But alas Phillies fans, all is not lost. As one of the Daily News Live panel said tonight, "If Terry Francona can bring a championship to Boston then anything is possible here". Yes you've heard all it before sportsfans, When Pigs Fly...
The main reason Leyland wasn't hired was because management was concerned about the circumstances under which he left the Rockies, and that if things weren't going well in Philadelphia (with Ed Wade, that's almost a given) he would leave the team - a lack of committment. What I'm hearing about Manuel (e.g. Jayson Starks comments on Comcast Sportsnet last night) I am very happy with this hiring decision.
QUOTE
scottie:
The main reason Leyland wasn't hired was because management was concerned about the circumstances under which he left the Rockies
What circumstances would those be?
The main reason Leyland wasn't hired was because management was concerned about the circumstances under which he left the Rockies
QUOTE
Munson Man:
I'll have to double check this, but I believe he left the Rockies very suddenly, after his first year of coaching the team. Thus, there is a concern he won't stick around if things aren't going his way.
QUOTE
scottie:
The main reason Leyland wasn't hired was because management was concerned about the circumstances under which he left the Rockies
What circumstances would those be? The main reason Leyland wasn't hired was because management was concerned about the circumstances under which he left the Rockies
That's correct -- he had a 3-year contract with the Rockies and left after the first year. But his family's in the Pittsburgh area and Philly is much closer than Colorado, so I wouldn't see that as a concern. Then again, I'm not the Phillies.
Charlie Manuel might be a nice man and a decent manager, but Jim Leyland has proven excellence -- including a World Series ring. And when you have a shot at excellence you GO FOR IT. A quote from this column by Bill Conlin:
[ November 05, 2004, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]
Charlie Manuel might be a nice man and a decent manager, but Jim Leyland has proven excellence -- including a World Series ring. And when you have a shot at excellence you GO FOR IT. A quote from this column by Bill Conlin:
QUOTE
Once again, the Phillies have come to two paths in their mostly wretched history and once again they have chosen the one most traveled by. They continue to be confounded by success and the high expectations that go with it.
Once again, they had a stare-down with an elusive dude named Greatness and blinked first. A franchise that once considered a high school band playing the national anthem on Opening Day the height of promotion has bought 10,000 shares of coal-mine stock. The Phillies have proved once again they have a retro brain to go with the retro ballpark you helped build for them.
Besides the poll I posted earlier, it's clear this isn't going over well with many fans. An example was published in the paper today:Once again, they had a stare-down with an elusive dude named Greatness and blinked first. A franchise that once considered a high school band playing the national anthem on Opening Day the height of promotion has bought 10,000 shares of coal-mine stock. The Phillies have proved once again they have a retro brain to go with the retro ballpark you helped build for them.
QUOTE
Dear Mr. Wade,
As a lifelong Phillies fan, I feel like Jennifer Lopez wanted to marry me, but you hooked me up with Janet Reno instead.
eek!As a lifelong Phillies fan, I feel like Jennifer Lopez wanted to marry me, but you hooked me up with Janet Reno instead.
[ November 05, 2004, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: Joe in Philly ]
QUOTE
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Wade,
As a lifelong Phillies fan, I feel like Jennifer Lopez wanted to marry me, but you hooked me up with Janet Reno instead.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now that's not fair, if the fan was a lesbian, she may really be into the Janet Reno look. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Wade,
As a lifelong Phillies fan, I feel like Jennifer Lopez wanted to marry me, but you hooked me up with Janet Reno instead.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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