These morons need to be locked up for a while. From ESPN.com:

US Cellular Field is not a safe place for Umpires and First Base Coaches it would seem. What's up with so many freaks running onto the field there in Chicago anyway?

It could just be that it's not safe to work a Royals game in Chicago.

IN SANE!!!! I just saw this--Cellular field NEEDS cells for some of these wackos. Was it Ump25 who was beaten down? Man, I usually disagree with you on politics, but I hope and trust you weren't hurt if it was you.

Isn't the All-Star game at Comiskey, er, uh, Cellular, this year? It seems like they better get their act together fast regarding security. Just saw a report on this on ESPN - the announcer calls the security at this stadium "a Monica Seles situation just waiting to happen."

[ April 15, 2003, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: Munson Man ]

This is just a terrible situation. They stated that fans came out on the field during four separate occasions, and the game had to be stopped each time. That is just totally ridiculous!! Anyone who comes out on the field should be fined and prosecuted to the fullest degree!! I am with the players' stance in that they have to defend themselves, because you never know when someone might be wielding a weapon of some sort, i.e. Monica Seles being stabbed.

During our country's heightened state of alert, I cannot believe these idiots are doing this!! All stadiums, especially U.S. Cellular Field, have got to come up with some provisions to tighten security around their entire stadium, but in particular, the lower seats. And to answer a previous poster's question, this season's All-Star game will be held at that stadium!! Can you imagine, some drunken fool, wanting to garner national headlines, during the game's summertime classic!! I think these people just want their moments of attention in the spotlight, regardless of the repercussions!! Sadly, if these incidents continue, it may make players less open to signing autographs and talking to fans in general!! Something has to be done before something very tragic happens.

[ April 15, 2003, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: SmoothRon ]

Disagree with me on politics? I'm shocked! Thankfully, I don't participate in the political section of the forum, so what makes you think we'd disagree? wink

The Umpire in question, Laz Diaz, was pretty cool about the whole situation. He's 40 and served in the Marine Corps Reserve.

Is that "hand-to-hand combat" training part of the new Umpire Training, Ump25? wink

Be careful out there!

It's absolutely insane that 4 people could get onto the field, and especially after the first three that it was allowed to happen yet again. Well, at least they did stop the first three before they could attack anyone. In the video of the fly out, you can clearly see the guy running out there for a good three or four seconds before anyone did anything to stop it. And how about Brandon Berger punching the guy with the ball in his hand! Go Brandon!

Here is a pic of the shirtless - and almost pantsless! - guy that ran onto the field in the 7th inning.

[ April 16, 2003, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: maxallen ]

Not sure what's going on at Comiskey (refuse to call it by another name) But something has to be done!

Are we waiting for baseball's version of the Monica Seles stabbing before we finally say, "Maybe we should look at some safety measures" or put a cap on how many beers one can buy or something like that.

I would not feel safe as a ump or a player.

These wackos at Comiskey are making the wackos at Wrigley seem respectable by comparison! Move the All-Star Game to Wrigley this year, the White Sox have shown that they can't get their security act together at all.

And who is Brandon Berger? Why, he's the man you appropriately voted the hottest Royal in all the land ... over here at the Friday Morning Baseball Hottie Poll 2: K.C. Royals

In case you needed a reminder of who is winning that poll in a landslide:

The entire thing was surreal. I went to the game with some friends to celebrate my birthday, and in general we had a good time. I think it was a confluence of factors:

- Half-price night on the first nice night for the Sox meant there were lots of walkups who wouldn't normally be at a game

- The first two guys who ran out got big cheers from most of the crowd. The White Sox should have said something over the loudspeaker after that. After the third guy (the one who forgot to wear his belt) Jerry Manual or someone should have taken a mic out onto the field and demanded respect.

The thing is, there were other fights in the stands, heckling, annoying behavior. I was embarrassed to be a Sox fan, someone who lives in the neighborhood, a defender of Comiskey (it's a lot nicer inside this year). They're trying to sell the team as a "family experience" unlike Wrigley, with the drunk frat boys. But clearly, drunk frat boys are far more harmless than drunk guys who couldn't even get into college.

P.S. The best part about sitting in right field was being able to look at the backside of Berger for half the game. OH. MY. GOD.

[ April 16, 2003, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: bridgeportjake ]

It was also a full moon last night...

After hearing some tedious pontificating on "Baseball Tonight," no one has raised the most effective solution that hasn't been tried, and won't be: ban beer sales.

As it stands now, if anyone wants to get on the field badly enough they can do so, especially where the front row seats aren't very high from the ground. Last night on ESPN they talked about extending the mesh behind home plate all the way around the field--which they have in Japan. That would be sad. There'd be far fewer foul balls going into the stands.

Short of acting like Singapore and just whipping someone who does something asinine like this, I don't know what the answer is. Ban alcohol sales? What about everyone who can drink responsibly? Why should they be penalized?

I think the most effective deterrent to this problem was suggested by Bobby Valentine on SportsCenter--make it a felony with mandatory jail time and a huge fine. I bet that the prospect of spending a year as Bubba's new girlfriend would stop most people from running on the field. eek!

A big and very vocal proponent of banning beer sales at ballparks is Michael Kay, who has a radio show here in NY, on 1050 Espn Radio. I think the idea is both very shortsighted, unrealistic, and yes, I'll even throw in un-American.

It's shortsighted because not serving beer at the ballpark does not prevent people from showing up already drunk or high, or worse.

It's unrealistic because I doubt that the owners would stop the sale of a product that is basically ALL profit. Hell, I bet you'd like to make something for 25 cents and sell it for $7.00 a glass!

It's un-American because if the majority of fans are responsible they should not be denied the right to pay $7.00 for a warm glass of beer on a hot summer day. No, it's not in The Constitution or anything, (I think?) but, I am always wary when people's first response to a situation is "take it way from everybody!" WAY too extreme.

I think a solution that concentrates on punishing the offenders, and not the general public makes more sense.

(Wow...this is my longest post to date. It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that I'm defending beer, does it? )

[ April 16, 2003, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: GOYANKS4868 ]

The incident happened on one of the White Soxs' Half Price Tuesday promotional games where the prices at the park are half price (i.e. tickets, food, drinks, etc). Yesterday, we had great weather with nightime temps in the 70's where you had a high walkup sales at the ticket windows at the Cell. However, you had a bunch of "Southside Trailer Park Trash" jerks running out of the field during last night game like last year's father & son duo.

Last June, one of the three games that I attended at Comiskey was a half price Tuesday game against the Indians. On this night, you had a lot of drunks in the stands making their anti-gay remarks against the Indians and Brady Anderson. The concession stands at Comiskey ran out of beer at the 6th inning because of the half price promotion.

It is well known in Chicago that the fan demographic base is totally different between the two teams. On the north side, you have a white collar, educated, higher income, yuppie and gay friendly fan base following the Cubbies compare to the blue collar, tank top wearing (aka wife beater), gold chain, tattoos gang who only comes out to Soxs games where it is a half price night and buy tickets in the outfield seats. Last night, most of the 20,591 fans in attendance were sitting in the outfield bleachers.

If this happens again at Comiskey, the All Star game should be move from Comiskey and relocate to Wrigley.

Hardly. Cubs fans are a bunch of unemployed housewives, drunken frat boys, and others who'd fill the park in the middle of December if someone turned the lights on.

Comiskey Park (U.S. Cellular Field is just too many syllables) is not the only park where the fans can easily access the field, believe me.

I think one big deterrent would be severe penalties for people who do such things. I heard that the first 3 people who ran on the field are charged with criminal trespassing and that their maximum sentence would be 6 months in jail. I also heard that the two brothers who were involved were interviewed by a local TV station there and the two guys laughed the whole thing off, saying it wasn't a big deal and that people were making too much of it.

How would this suit them then? Three years in prison for running onto the field, and ten years if you make contact with someone on the field.

Oh, and the Death Penalty if you make contact with an umpire.

There, that sounds about right.

I find the idea that some galoot who turns violent when he's slobberingly drunk is going to have legal penalties in the front of his mind somewhat amusing... While we all deplore these attacks, similar and worse happen by the thousands in America every night. Of course, they're not on TV, so they're less important!

Refuse admittance to the stadium to those who arrive intoxicated.

There's no "right" to drink $7 beers at the ballpark, but then I speak as someone who generally brings his own treats.

Have you ever been to a ball game, Bill W? Your idea to "refuse admittance to the stadium to those who arrive intoxicated," is at the very least, "somewhat amusing." The entryways at ball parks are like a stampede, and I doubt the minimum wage earning ticket takers are eqipped to determine who's drunk, and who's not. But, let's take your "great" idea and run with it--let's give everyone entering the stadium an alcohol breath test, that way we can spend 4 hours on line getting into a stadium where we'll watch a ball game that's already too long.

Oh, and why am I not surprised that you bring your own treats to the ball park--you sound like the type of guy that looks in other people's couches for spare change.

Given that the 3 attackers in the 2 incidents were shirtless white trash, that makes weeding them out easier...

I never said banning beer was PRACTICAL, or that it would ever happen given that beer is MLB's Official Beverage. The problem is not gonna be "solved" short of surrounding the field with chicken wire.

I don't like paying 500% of deli value for junk food/drink. And you sound like a dumbass Yankee fan who's been clubbed by the Stadium brownshirts a few times...

Why do I think we'll have have to get used to watching baseball through chain link? Sad, sad, sad.

Buwahahahaha! That's made my morning. I don't think Bill W is that way, but still.

Since I always since in the top decks of stadiums directly behind home plate (I like the spread out view up there), running out on to the field is never an issue for me. But I remember at an Angels game a few years ago, a guy ran on to the field and it took a few of the guards quite a while to tackle him (and get a few shots in during the scuffle); about 2 innings later, a guy started to try climbing the foul pole in right field. Sure, the game was boring and the Angels were having another bad season, but it was absurd. No shock whatsoever to discover that both were totally drunk at the time.

How about having sharp spikes implanted in the top of the walls surrounding the field that can be triggered to jut up and impale anyone stupid enough to try and run on the field? Too medieval? Too brutal?

Damn.

First, it was "check everyone at the door." Now, you're insinuating that I've caused enough trouble at ball games to have been beaten up by security. Do you have any kind of a grip on reality? I'm GAY, you idiot! Our kind doesn't start fights at baseball games!

But I not at all surprised the obvious escapes you, you condescending, pompous cheapass!

Not at all, sweetie! The ex-rogue cops who make up Stadium security generally pummel the innocent, don't they?

Give us a kiss.


[ April 17, 2003, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: Bill W ]

Yikes! that would wreck more havoc on M'waukee than the Selig clan ever did! Baseball and beer are the siamese twins of sports (oops -- for you pc'ers out there \"conjoined twins\")

I have a feeling Bill W could walk blindfolded and backwards from his home to Shea. He's one of the board's most articulate, knowledgeable and passionate fans of baseball (not that he needs me defending him wink ).

And now, Letterman's Top Ten Excuses from the Guy Who Attacked the Umpire
10. I thought it was "Attack A Defenseless Umpire Night."
9. Let's see you drink 15 beers and not do something stupid.
8. Look at all the endorsements the shirtless father and son lunatics got.
7. I wanted to impress Royals shortstop Angel Berroa.
6. Umpire? I thought he was a vampire.
5. It was Royals-White Sox game -- somebody's gotta make it exciting.
4. You never heard of a little thing called "spring fever?"
3. Pete Rose bet me I wouldn't do it.
2. You're just not yourself when you've got shingles.
1. From my angle, he looked exactly like Uday Hussein.

Well goodness boys, it's getting hard to tell the fun-oriented name calling from the vicious name calling in this thread!

It think Security Guards with rubber-bulleted guns (or sandbags, whatever the popular stunning ammunition is now), positioned every 50 feet around the baseline seating areas ought to take care of it. This sight of guns could be somewhat discomforting; maybe they could paint them in team colors or something. Anything to avoid chainlink or netting! I don't want anything to block my close-up view of the hunky boys on the field. wink

Honestly, at the Royal's Kaufmann staudium, we usually sit near the front along the first base line, and of course everyone (including me) is drinking those $7 beers, but I've never seen anyone get very raucus or violent. It's a very family-oriented atmosphere, lots of kids. The outfield seating though, that's a different story. At least once a year there is some loser who falls over the wall, usually breaking an arm or something.

OH GOD! On top of everything else, Bill W., you're a Mets fan! EWWW! No kisses for you!

But in the interest of clearing things up for maxallen, I will play nice from now on....

[ April 17, 2003, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: GOYANKS4868 ]

Team colors, Maxallen. I like that! Still, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

To clarify, JT, the only things that was half-price on Tuesday were the tickets. Beer prices were the same as always.

Also, three of the guys who ran out onto the field jumped the fences in the outfield. They were showing off, not after anyone.

Yikes. Is the country so enthralled at being on TV and cheap, 30-second "celebrity" that they think it's a good idea to do that?

$7 for a beer? Highway robbery. Bill W has the right idea about bringing your own but don't some parks prevent that so that you're forced to buy their swill?

Monty Python joke:

Man 1: How are American beer and making love in a canoe similar?
Man 2: Dunno.
Man 1: Both are f**king close to water.

Remember a few years back that blonde chick with the big bazooms would run onto baseball fields and kiss a player ? I think she usually went after pitchers.

She was on Johnny Carson I believe.

I was jealous, as there were quite a few hunks I wouldn't mind kissin, but I don't believe 8 security guards pummeled her with cleats in the face.

Morgana! I was just thinking about her when I heard about this story. Now she's relegated to Whatever happened to... status.

Well, as long as we're on a 70's nostalgia thing, home come none of these lunkheads streak? At least show us some package before the players beat your head in and you get carted off to jail.

Selfish bastards.

Look, the last time I was at a Cubs game, in 2001, I sat wedged between three obese working class guys, two white one Latino, who proceeded gulp down beers (one man literally must have had six beers by the end of the game) and to yell every racial, sexual and ethnic epithet--EXCEPT against blacks, perhaps because I am black, so were they being polite???--they could think of against the Arizona Diamondbacks.

The things these guys screamed out against Randy Johnson (who was pitching), the other D'back players, espec. Byung Kim (I think he was the closer--one guy called him one anti-Asian epithet and the other one corrected him, saying by saying he was another epithet!), and EVEN THE CUBS, who were losing, were just dizzying. (They didn't criticize my baby Sammy Sosa, though.) I actually said to the Latino guy, hey, man, some of the sh*t you guys are saying is really offensive, and he just laughed and said, we don't mean, but the Diamondbacks are kicking our asses and the Cubbies are just screwing up again.

Maybe the general profile between the Wrigley and Cell/Commiskey fans is different, but I sure as hell didn't tell ANY of these guys that my favorite NL team was the Cardinals.

see? Out of deference to you, the three guys chose not to insult blacks. AND! They made sure to call Byung-Hyun Kim by the correct insult of "gook" instead of "chink" or "ching-chong" (also a polite thing to do)

Please note that such consideration and display of proper insult-etiquette would NOT have been shown to you or the visiting players by the gold-chain wearin fans of Comiskey. They would have been too busy getting beat up by the Royals. wink

[ April 18, 2003, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: ung ]

On the other hand...

So which team's fan base does he belong to?

On the serious side, supposedly Fenway deals with the drunk issue (after all Massachusetts is home to a lot of us Irish-Catholics) by not selling beer in the stands, and limiting the number of beers you can buy at one time. That, plus the cost, certainly keeps the consumption down. My dear, sainted Ma used to say it was what separated Red Sox fans (good, decent people) from Yankees fans, who could buy beer in the stands (and were, of course, children of the devil).

I have always thought that a good response to incidents like this, particularly as this was the 4th one of the night, is to announce after it happens once that the game will be halted and the home team forced to forfeit if it happens again - I thought the same thing should have been done at the battery- and ice-ball throwing NFL games a few years ago.

The league would probably only have to do it once (and a loss this early in the season wouldn't hurt the home team too badly) before you'd see an end to the shenanigans.

True, but physical barriers are more effective than the "deterrence" of penalties (which assume a rational state of mind that considers consequences). Mesh might be a good start ... if fans want to be able to catch foul balls, they can learn to behave so the mesh comes down.

Banning all beer sales seems extreme -- and economically unlikely, given the beer industry's involvement in baseball and other pro sports -- but making beer-drinkers walk to the concession counters and line up (instead of buying from vendors in the stands) would make them pace themselves. And it would be reversible.

Demographics aside, "Sox Park" has a history of rowdy fans ... many of whom are just as rowdy on the road, as I recall from when the Brewers were in the AL (Sox games were known as "fight night").

Hey, maybe the Sox could play at Meigs!

JT wrote:
I found the above comment interesting, and while one should take care not to generalize, I'm curious if this is also true in other metropolitan areas which have two baseball teams (ie, New York, San Francisco/Oakland, Los Angeles/Anaheim)? Do these teams consciously try to attract different 'types' of fans?

At the two ballparks here in the Los Angeles area, there are NO beer sales in the stands. And I don't know if it's still in effect (when I go there I don't sit in those seats) but at Dodger Stadium they had banned the sale of beer in the two outfield pavilions.

Re: fan demographics. The Dodgers have a heavy Latino mix to the fans and they've marketed extensively to that population at least since Fernandomania in 1981. The Angels, on the other hand, until about 2 years ago, didn't even bother marketing to Latino fans as they figured "They're Dodger fans already". Ummmm.....yeah, that Disney marketing magic at work there. In my experience, the Dodgers have a mix of fans, rich and not-so-rich (we're up in the red seats!), white and non-white. The Angels are still overwhelmingly white and affluent. Blacks are sparsely represented at both parks and in my experience, Asian fans tend to show up in numbers only when there's an Asian "draw" like Ichiro on Saturday or when Chan Ho Park is pitching etc.

a really funny and great article about the whole unruly fan thing in the Atlanta Journal Constitution today.

Well, Anaheim is in the same county as John Wayne Airport.

Back to Chicago, there's a big rivalry between the "North Side" and "South Side" (I use quotes because residents of southern suburbs, sometimes known as Wal-Mart Land because that and Denny's are what you see there, tend to include themselves in the "South Side" label ... whereas residents of northern suburbs see themselves as not part of the city, using terms like "North Shore" or "Northwest" but never "North Side" to identify themselves).

There's a whole history to the rivalry, but it's one of many things I never quite bothered to learn for some reason. The dividing line appears to be I-290. I think. Anyway, "North Siders" are Cubs fans and "South Siders" Sox fans most of the time (and, of course, all generalizations are false, including this one ).

Jim Allen wrote:

Thanks for the insight. I've never been to an MLB game, and have only been to L.A. a couple of times, but what you said about the Angels fan base confirmed what I thought. I'm still wondering about New York...are there significant demographic differences between Yankees and Mets fans? Are the two stadiums located in vastly different communities?

Jumping back into the discussion between the differences between two ball clubs. Here are my arguments that the Soxs have major league problems in controlling the crowds, when they show up, and drawing people to the Cell.

1. Last Thursday, both teams played during the day. The White Soxs drew a little over 10,000 while the Cubbies had a crowd over 29,000.

2. It was well known that old Comiskey was refer as the "World Biggest Saloon" by its former owner, Bill Veeck.

3. The Cubs cut off beer sales at the end of the 6th inning while the taps keep on flowing at US Cell.

4. White Soxs fans are pointing out the idoit who tried to tackle the ump at their game was none other than a CUB FAN!! Here is my two cents ... Well, that clears up everything, does not it. We can not blame the Sox security or the cheapstake ownership who will not hire off duty cops and stop beer sales.

5. Here are a sample of the some letters to the editor remarks in the Tribune.

"The final weekend of the Sox's home schedule at US Incarceration Field concludes Sept 21 against --ta-da! The ROYALS!! Guess that is when the Soxs will hold the traditional Defendant Appreciation Day."

"The Soxs game on May 25th at US Jail Cell Field is Fujufilm Photo Day. Handy for Soxs fans who need their photos front and side view"

"The Cubbies are selling sunshine vs. the Soxs reading Miranda rights."

The Cubs management has been very progressive in marketing toward the GLBT community in advertising in the Chicago Free Press with full page ads throughout the season. In addition, the Cubs was one of the first MLB franchise that officially sponsored Pride Day at the Park.

While the Soxs have shown a meager effort in making GLBT customers feel comfortable on the South Side.

tha makes no sense. Are the Sox fans that stupid? (don't answer that)

If you got a hometown dude at a game between the Sox and the Royals, wouldn't that mean he is a fan of one or the other? If you buy the ticket, root for the Sox but then act like an idiot, how does that make you a Cubs fan?

Yes and no. Here's my take.

First, both teams are located in outer boroughs--there is no team in Manhattan (that was the Giants, who played in the Polo Grounds, which became a notorious housing project in the 1960s and 1970s). The Yankees are located in the poorest of the five NYC boroughs, the Bronx, which has traditionally had a large immigrant population (once upon a time it was farms, then mostly Irish, Jewish, Italian, and German immigrants, now mostly Latino with a large black population as well). Da Bronx is the rough borough, and "the Bronx Cheer"...well, you probably know that one. The Yankees, however, were always the "corporate" team--businesslike, in their pinstripes, no names attached, lots of white ethnic players who became superstars and they won, won, won. Their fans tend to come from Manhattan, the Jersey suburbs, the Bronx, the Hudson River valley, and of course, outside New York. For the majority of major league history they were not the team of the NYC working classes; that was the Dodgers, who played in liberal, progressive, multiracial Brooklyn. The Yankees also were one of the last teams to field black or Afro-Latin players, and are still loathed by older Brooklyn Dodger fans as well as by those who root for the Mets, in part because the Yankees usually beat the Dodgers year in, year out.

The Yankees play in a historic stadium that oozes its history, though it's not as pretty or architecturally noteworthy as Wrigley Field or Fenway Park, which are two of the best. At the games, though, you get quite a mix; every race, every color, you name it, as well as the rich folks who are in the skyboxes. I have gone to many Yankees games and have to say that they attract some very attractive, though sometimes scarily vituperative, fans. And their fan base keeps growing because they win, win, win.

The Mets are the sort-of successors to the Dodgers, though they are located in Queens, the second most-populous borough, that also is predominantly immigrant (especially Greek, Asian, East Indian, etc.), with huge Italian and black populations. The Mets draw fans from Queens, from Brooklyn, from Long Island, as well as from Manhattan, but they labor in the shadow of the Yankees. Their earlier history was one of real struggle, until that miraculous year, 1969, in which they won it all. The roster of great Yankees is tremendous and well known, so even in that regard the Mets are overshadowed. But the Mets' ranks include the great Tom Seaver, who was an extraordinary pitcher.

I hate the Mets' stadium--I have been there two times, and think it's a bandbox. The area is nicer and arguably much safer than where the Yankees play. (All of New York is still much safer than it once was.) I did root for them in 1986, which is when they beat the Red Sox; that team is much like the fan base, which is very mixed, but draws lots of families, white ethnics, Asians, Latinos, blacks, basically all the folks you'd find in Queens and Long Island. The fans strike me as politer than the folks at the Yankees games. Queens, like the Bronx, still gets overlooked in favor of Manhattan, and the most populous borough, Brooklyn.

One other point--the Yankees are often the team selected by New York newcomers, since they're better known, and they've become in some ways the team of the intellectual classes, who are probably less liberal than they once were, when the Dodgers drew that fan base--immigrant, Leftist, progressive, etc. There's a reason Jackie Robinson started in Brooklyn rather than with either of the Manhattan teams, though the Giants were located near Harlem.

One cool thing is that both stadia are reachable by subway lines, as in Chicago!

[ April 24, 2003, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: fantomas ]

Ung, I think where the "See, it wuz a Cubs fan that dunnit!!!!" thing is coming from is that I read somewhere that the guy who attacked the ump had been to a Cubs game that afternoon, where he drank about 143 beers*, then he headed over to Comiskey. Tenuous "evidence" at best, I would think?

* Exaggeration