It's that time of year again - when a not-so-young man's fancy turns to hot guys in shorts running around with little nets on sticks. This promises to be an "interesting" year for my team, the Colorado Mammoth, as their linchpin player Gary Gait is now wearing a suit as head coach. Not sure if this team will gel into a killer unit, but I'll be there cheering either way.

If any of you live in a town with an NLL franchise, and you have yet to check out a game, I urge you to do so. Seats are cheap, the action is great, and the players are nicer'n nice.

LXN

The MLL isn't a sport I follow heavily, but I do tend to keep an eye on the Bandits here in Buffalo. Johnny Tavares(possibly the greatest player ever in league history) is returning for another season, his 15th.

The team and the atmosphere hasn't been the same there since the HSBC Arena opened up in Buffalo, back in the early 90's the club was winnning league titles in front of raucous crowds at the Aud. Since then they've been pretty good, but crowd support has dwindled.....an interesting reason for that was the firing of Teddy Nolan as Sabres head coach in '97.

Nolan, for those who follow the NHL was fired after winning NHL coach of the year. Nolan is also a full blooded Native American and the backlash from his firing was felt heaviest by the Bandits whose huge indigeonous fan base left the Sabres owned Bandits and really have never returned.

Also about that time, new franchises popped up in Toronto and Rochester....as well as one in Syracuse that left after a few years. That also cut into the Bandits fan base.

Still a fun thing to see if there's nothing else going on the world of sports.

Last year was the first time I paid much attention to lacrosse (in part due to the NHL lockout). I attended a couple of Roughnecks' games, including the All-Star game, and was quite impressed. Should be an interesting rivalry here with the addition of an NLL team in Edmonton (Rush). I whole-heartedly approve of the players' dress code, too. I knew that Gary Gait had retired but wasn't aware that he is now coaching the Mammoth. I see they play their first game on Dec 30; the Roughnecks (aka Riggers) don't play until Jan 13.

Interesting you should mention Ted Nolan...don't know if you heard about the ugly incident in Chicoutimi, Quebec last week. Apparently racial slurs and 'tomahawk' gestures were made by fans at Nolan during a QMJHL game there (Nolan is currently coaching a team from Moncton, NB). So far, I haven't heard whether he has received a formal apology from the Chicoutimi club. Another sad example of how racism persists.

On a side note, the NLL just released a game-of-the week package to put games into 30 million homes.. Lots of opportunities to see lax this winter/spring.

After week two, Philly looks like it might be back on the right track... after years of championships, they've had a lull-- but sitting at 2-0 must be nice.

Colorado, on the other hand, had to come-from-behind to win last night. Although it was against a solid Rochester team.

What's nice to see is how close all these games have been so far.. Five games have occured so far this season, four have been decided by one goal (and two in OT)--- not bad.

And one of those was a re-match of last year's NLL championship between Toronto and Arizona, although this time the Sting won. Looks like they had a big crowd at the ACC for the Rock's season opener. I think Toronto and Denver have had the best attendance in the league over the last couple of years.

The new Edmonton Rush team lost their home opener to San Jose, and will be playing the Roughnecks here in Calgary next Friday. Besides the Rush, the NLL has added another new team this year (Portland Lumberjax) but the Anaheim Storm has ceased operations. The NLL (especially the western conference) has seen a lot of changes over the last few years, so let's hope for some stability.

The only changes you'll be seeing in the coming years is growth... the league plans to continue to add more teams (to hit around 20 or so by 2010).

I think they need to stabilize the teams they have, make sure they're on solid footing, and then expand.

I know they're different sports and the financial situations may be different, but I tend to compare the NLL to the Major Indoor Soccer League -- mainly because Philadelphia's teams, the NLL's Wings and the MISL's Kixx, are two teams that are in smaller leagues and play during the same time of year. The Wings are definitely the better draw here. Of course, they also get to play in the Wachovia Center while the Kixx are generally relegated to the older Spectrum.

The MISL has tried to expand in recent years and failed; they had a team in Monterey, Mexico that shut down operations a few games into the season. The MISL is now down to six teams -- five holdovers (Phila., Milwaukee, St. Louis, Baltimore and Chicago) and an expansion team called the California Cougars that plays in Stockton (and just won their first game after starting 0-11). There was a longtime team in Cleveland that is now gone. So the NLL would be wise to be a little cautious.

Yeah, neither Colorado game was really as solid as I had hoped, but the Mammoth didn't play horribly in either one. They just were up against two really good teams each time.

The NLL has been bitten a few times by teams that have failed. The Mammoth moved here from Washington (as the Washington Power), and I have it in my head that was their third move in ten years. But it was cheering to note that there was no dispersal draft in the offseason, like there had been the last few. In other words, no team dissolved, and I think only one moved (Anaheim to Edmonton).

LXN

They have been cautious.. and Jim Jennings has been incredibly smart in the way he's gone about doing things --- he'll only expand to places with a strong management team in place and wants to hook up with other pro teams for help (See Denver)...

Lexington -- The Mammoth started out in Baltimore, moved to Philly, moved to DC, then to Denver... The ownership group was not strong at first, but once they got to Denver the NLL did a good job of matching them up with a fine ownership group....

As for anaheim, they are not Edmonton.. Edmonton is a brand new team, as is Portland. And considering over 10,000 went to the first Edmonton game, they are in a good situation there it seems. They're also igniting quite a battle with Calgary.. The Rush ownership group took out an add in the local paper saying they'd open a can of whoop ass on the Roughnecks... You gotta love that.

Overall, though, the league is in a very good situation financially... Teams like Toronto, Colorado, etc.. draw better than any WNBA teams, most MLS teams, etc... And with the NLL's TV deal this year games will get into more homes which should mean more interest.

Per laxmanmd:
Whoa! They've only got 11 teams right now. Frankly, I'm a little concerned that the NLL can practically double in 4 years. Rapid expansion, in a sport which is still trying to find its media niche, may not be the smartest thing.

Yeah, I know the league has been around for a few years. But they've almost tapped-out the major centers of lacrosse interest. They've got some growth opportunities for NYC, NJ, Boston, D.C., maybe even NoVa and the Carolinas. But outside of those locales, where is the NLL gonna turn? If 20 is the goal, that means we're probably looking at places with little or no track record in lacrosse. I realize that the same could be said for the pacific/southwest expansion....but those places tend to be heavy with transplants.

I don't think cities like Dallas are the future of the NLL. And once the NLL taps out the NE market, their only option is tapping places with poorer transplant-demographics than Phoenix and Anaheim. This league needs to cool its heels at 16 teams, and then re-think this 20-team nonsense.

I think many of these clubs are owned by NHL franchises and they use them as a way to offset the losses they have(at least under the old financial system). These players have real jobs by day then do lacrosse on the side. Clubs gotta be raking in the revenue for certain.

I guess that sums up the main reason why the sport may never gain the necessary lift. 20 years, and this thing can't reach the necessary threshold to pay players to play enough to make a living. Anyone going to the Allstar game in Toronto?

[ January 11, 2006, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: Herr Tiggee ]

>>>But they've almost tapped-out the major centers of lacrosse interest.

Possibly. But the key thing is that Colorado ISN'T a center of lacrosse interest. Or, more accurately, wasn't. I don't think I ever saw a lacross stick in person until the Mammoth showed up. Now I occasionally see kids tossing the ball around on the lawn. I would hestitate to say Colorado has "lacrosse fever" or any such thing, but it certainly has taken off here, even more so than the NLL & Kroenke had hoped.

Now, if Edmonton and Portland are both "new" franchises, then what exactly happened to Anaheim? They're obviously not there anymore, and there was no dispersal draft.

LXN

I'm glad to hear that the sport has generated some interest in CO. The key is "outreach," as new sports have to do all sorts of free camps and promotional stuff for youth groups. You have to build interest with the kids in order to grow the base for the future. Is that going on in CO? Is the NLL involved?

I wish they'd locate a team here in ATL; there are enough NE/Mid Atlantic transplants that some initial buzz might be generated. But knowing the people of ATL, I know how hard it would be to sustain interest. The minor league soccer team is heavily focused on outreach efforts, and even they struggle to garner support.

It's been a very strange season thus far. Either the teams' defenses have stepped it up, or the offenses have nodded off, because the scores are quite a bit lower than normal. I don't have stats, but before the season, I told someone that I guessed the average number of goals per squad per game was 14 or so. I think only one team has scored 14 goals so far this season! The rest of the scores - 9-7, 10-7 - look like modestly exciting baseball scores.

In addition, away teams are winning quite a bit. On opening night, all the away teams won. Nothing wrong with this per se, except recall that every team only gets eight home games, barring the playoffs. That's eight chances to try to get some repeat customers, and a win is the best way to do that.

LXN

The score of tonight's game in Phila. was 13-10. The Wings lost to Minnesota.

During the Flyers game this afternoon the PA announcer said there was a special discount available at the box office for tonight's Wings game: a lower-level ticket for $18.00 (regular price is $27-29). It makes me wonder how many tickets were available in the lower level.

...But the Roughnecks opened their season Friday night at home, and beat the expansion team Edmonton Rush 11-9. There had been a lot of boisterous trash-talking from the Rush side earlier in the week, which I think motivated the Roughies. But it wasn't an easy win for the more experienced Calgary team; I watched the game on Sportsnet and the Rush looked better than I expected for a new club, especially on defence. Neither team had an exceptionally good power play last night (each around 25%, which is good in hockey but not in lacrosse). There were over 13,000 fans at the Saddledome for the game, which is better than last year's average attendance.

The NLL scheduling is kind of quirky...Colorado Mammoth has already played four games, while my Roughnecks (and a couple of other teams) have played just one.

Joe, those ticket prices for the Wings' games sound similar to what we pay here for the Roughnecks. Certainly more affordable than Flames' tickets. wink

Actually Herr, the key to the NLL is not tapping into lax markets, but hockey markets. The NLL has done traditionally well in places where lacrosse is not a prominent sport, and less so in places where it is. Part of this is because past ownership groups in places like DC and Bmore have been less than stellar, but a big key is going after hockey fans, and going after a lot of general sports fans. The ticket prices are still so much lower than say, NBA or NHL, that you can really attract a lot of people if you market the team like. Look at Edmonton -- this is their first year and they draw over 10k for their very first games. Portland drew over 10k for its first exhibition .... The NLL has a great business model right now, Jim Jennings is doing a fantastic job and the league is only allowing investments in areas where a strong ownership group is in place.

Buffalo opened up its home schedule with a W in front of over 13k, its largest audience since 1998.

Last night Buffalo's Johnny Tavarez had six points in their 14-9 win over the Minnesota Swarm. That gives him a total of 1091 points for his career and ties him with Gary Gait as the NLL's leading scorer.

Way to go Johnny.....his 15th season in the league and all have been spent in Buffalo. Definitely one of the games greats.

Time to give this thread a boost, I think. Last night, I attended the Roughnecks' 14th game of the season, but only the first one for me. I took a friend who knew almost nothing about lacrosse, but he thoroughly enjoyed the experience, as did most of the exuberant 12,000-plus fans at the Saddledome. We got to meet Derrick the oily Mascot in person, and watched Duff Gibson (local firefighter who won gold in skeleton at the recent Torino Olympics) do the ceremonial face-off. The Roughnecks (aka Riggers) dominated the Arizona Sting throughout most of the game (ahead by 6 goals at one point), but the Sting came within one goal of tying late in the fourth quarter. Final score was 14-12 for Calgary, with four goals by Lewis Ratcliff, who is in the top five point-getters in the league. The Roughnecks had already clinched a playoff berth, and this win puts them in a 9-5 tie for first with Portland in the West. Colorado, not surprisingly, is also in the playoffs. But in the East, only the Buffalo Bandits have secured a post-season berth thus far. Playoffs begin April 21.

GO RIGGERS!

LET'S GO BANDITS!

Hey, your Bandits already have the league sewn up - you leave my furry elephants alone!

Actually, I'm quite pleased with the way the Mammoth have played this year. Everyone predicted a horrible year for them with Gait moving into the suit, but Gait's proven to be a very able coach, and Gavin Prout has proven to be an excellent on-field captain.

LXN

Hey we're hoping the Lumberjax do well. They seem to attracting a good size crowd. It gives Portland a professional sports team to cheer about!

Congratulations to the LumberJax first-place (11-5) finish in the west, Tonka. A bit of a surprise, for an expansion team. Portland hosts fourth-place Arizona Sting (8-8) next Saturday in the first playoff round. My Roughnecks (10-6) lost TWICE to Colorado (11-7) last weekend in back-to-back games, including a 17-7 massacre at the Saddledome (their worst loss of the year). Not a great way to finish the regular season, especially since they have to face the same Mammoth team again next weekend in the playoffs. In the East, it will be Buffalo (11-5) vs Minnesota (8-8) and Rochester (9-7) vs Toronto (8-8).

GO RIGGERS!

The Mammoth will be at a distinct disadvantage this Saturday, as they will be playing without their team captain Gavin Prout. He was suspended for a game for leaving the bench during a brawl during last Saturday's game. That could be all the advantage Calgary needs to run roughshod over the Mammoth in their third match-up in eight days...

LXN

Prout got his suspension overturned. He'll play.

Let's see...28 posts over four months for the entire National Lacrosse League, and 100-plus posts in one month for a scandal involving one university's lacrosse team. Clearly it's the 'sensational' events in sports which drives this board but to each his own, I suppose.

Anyway, my Roughnecks made it a good contest, but lost in overtime to the Colorado Mammoth last night in Denver (congratulations, Lexington). The 18-17 score was, I believe, higher than any NLL game during the regular season. I was PO'd that Sportsnet didn't broadcast this playoff game, even though they televised many of the Roughnecks' games during the season. It's not as if they would have been competing with the Flames or Avalanche on CBC and TSN---the two hockey teams weren't playing at the time of the Mammoth-Roughnecks game. Instead, Sportsnet chose to show some obscure auto-racing thing.

So there will be no Canadian city represented in the Champions' Cup (although many Canadian players). Besides Calgary, Toronto Rock was eliminated by the Buffalo Bandits, Rochester Knighthawks defeated the Minnesota Swarm, and fourth-place Arizona Sting upset the first-place Portland Lumber Jax.

It was absolute insanity. The score tied on TEN separate occasions, a nail-biting "is-it-or-isn't-it" goal with a minute left in regulation, and then Calgary sends it into overtime! We ended up sitting right behind Brian Langtry's wife, and when he scored the game-winner, he tore off his helmet, sprinted across the field, and slammed into the glass right in front of us, screaming "I love you Missy!" while his teammates piled on behind him. Missy cried and hugged all of us. One of those incredible moments I don't think I'll ever forget.

I do have the game on Tivo, and can put it on DVD if you'd like, Marc. Just know that the Altitude announcers are MAJOR homers (since the network is owned by Kroenke, who owns the Mammoth, that's no surprise)...

LXN

[ April 26, 2006, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: Lexington ]

Thanks for your kind offer, Lexington...I will take you up on that if it's not too much trouble, please check your PM.

I'm still in shock that 12,000 people showed up to watch a regular season lacrosse game in Calgary.

The biggest NCAA attendance so far this year was 13,857 for the Johns Hopkins - Navy game last weekend in Annapolis. It was "kids wearing their youth team jersey get in free" day, but it was also a lousy day with pouring rain.

Edited to get the attendance right: 13,857, not 13,875. Source:

NAAA-LACROSSE Archives -- April 2006, week 4 (#6), which reprinted the story from the Baltimore Sun. The Sun removed the article from its website once it got to be two weeks old, but here's the link anyway, just to give credit where credit is due:

Jays rally, beat Mids for 32nd time in row

[ May 12, 2006, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: twin58 ]

Calgary draws fairly well, but it's Toronto and (surprisingly) Colorado that draw the most. Although we haven't sold out the Pepsi Center this year, we've come close. I think we averaged around 16,500 per game this year.

LXN

Buffalo defeats Rochester 15-10 tonight at the HSBC Arena to take the East.

Champions Cup now set

Colorado at Buffalo 6PM May 13th.....

who else is going!!!

Not sure if we'll be making it out there or not. The b/f wants to go, but I'm not really convinced. If we don't go, we'll be definitely watching in some crowded bar with other Mammoth fans, though...

LXN

Decided against going to Buffalo - bought something much needed for the home instead...

However, the Mammoth have reserved Brooklyn's Sports Bar (right next to the Pepsi Center) for a viewing party of the game - we'll be there!

LXN

It wasn't available on TV here, but congratulations Lexington, to your Colorado Mammoth in winning their first Champion's Cup, rather decisively in a 16-9 victory over the Buffalo Bandits! And in Gary Gait's first year as coach. Gavin Prout was named the MVP.

The attendance in Buffalo was over 16,000. Not quite a sellout, but considering that many lacrosse fans are also hockey fans and the Buffalo Blueraiders...er Sabres...were busy winning a meaningful hockey game up in Ottawa at the same time the Bandits were losing, I'd say that's a very good turnout. Average attendance around the National Lacrosse League was up again this year, to about 10,800 per game (BTW, Twin 58, in your April 27 post, I'm not sure why you were 'shocked' by the attendance figures in Calgary...I assume you mean you thought it would be much less? :confused: )

Looks like the new NLL team for 2007 will be the Chicago Shamrox (not 'Shamrocks'...guess that might sound too much like the Toronto Rock, or just a new trend in spelling, as in Portland Lumberjax instead of 'Lumberjacks'?) I assume they will play in the East to balance the numbers, although it's rumoured the San Jose team may not be around next year.

PS to Lexington: looks like you may have missed my post above in reply to your April 26 post. The PM I sent still shows 'unread by recipient'.

[ May 14, 2006, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Marc ]

Time to change the avatar!

The first line in the newspaper read, "Nobody on the Mammoth team thought it would be this easy." And although "easy" might be a bit of a stretch, it was a (pleasant) surprise. The sports bar where I watched the game got rowdier and rowdier, with chants of "Let's go Mammoth!" and "We want the cup!" echoing through both stories.

I actually did read your message, and I apologize for not getting back to you. My b/f's computer (the one that could make DVDs) has been having sound issues. However, he just got his new one, and he's busy setting it up, installing everything, and so forth. Once it's up and running, I'll get the DVD burned for you. I can get you a copy of the NLL Final, too, if you wish, although unless you're a Mammoth fan, it's not quite as compelling.

LXN

Arrrggghhhhhh!!!

Tough game, tough loss. Th boys lost their cool at the worst time, stupid penalties and their MVP playing like crap did nothing to help them.

They got a big crowd though, the biggest they've had in years, and had it been a non Sabre game night they could have sold it out. I don't think they've done that since '97 or so.

Funny, I was up in the press box, and had the Sabres game on one of the monitors and as the game got out of hand below fans just below us were looking up to see the hockey game. Occasional chants of "Lets go Sabres" broke out from time to time.

A substantial contingent of Mammoth fans were in attendance, I'd say 500 or so.....assuming many of them were Mammoth players supporters who live in Ontario. I wonder how many people made the trek from Denver.

Good to see, that the Post and RM News sent people to Buffalo for this. We were so ticked that the Buffalo News didn't sent our beat guy to Calgary in '04 for the Champions Cup....take a lesson Buffalo News!

Congrats Lexington, would have liked to have partied it up afterwards like you guys must have.......

actually I did, but for the Sabres instead:)

Yes. Attendance at any of the first round of NCAA Tournament games has been no more than 4,000 or so, I would guess.

The #1 ranked men's lacrosse team, UVa, played Notre Dame, which has somewhat of a national following during the fall, in an NCAA tournament game in Charlottesville Saturday. The attendance was 3,876. Georgetown and Navy played yesterday in another NCAA tournament game. The attendance was a whopping 2,455. Admittedly, the weather was a factor there. I mean, all I would have had to have done to see that was get on a bicycle and ride across the Potomac River. The sky was overcast all day, and the rain let loose in the middle of the game. I was warm and dry inside.

Virginia sets school record in 14-10 win over Notre Dame

Georgetown bests Navy 9-7 in NCAA tourney

I guess I'm a little surprised Georgetown beat Navy twice this season, though I don't follow either that closely. Their first meeting was in Annapolis. That game last year was marred by the death of a beloved referee right at the end of the first quarter. I have it on tape, but I never watch it.

Yeah, Buffalo definitely didn't bring their A game on Saturday. It would've been cool to see a match up between the teams both at full capacity, although I obviously can't complain about the outcome.

I actually knew three different groups of fans who made the trip out to Buffalo. Most had a great time, although one group got some beer thrown on 'em. There's one in every crowd. Their favorite player? Nick Carlson. He bought the drinks at the celebration afterwards.

LXN

I didn't realize this thread has been inactive for well over a year; I thought I had posted something about the Calgary Roughnecks during the 2007 NLL season. But now it looks like the entire league will be 'inactive' in 2008. I'm disappointed that the owners and players were unable to reach an agreement, as I have thoroughly enjoyed the lacrosse games I've attended over the last few years. The salaries these athletes receive are a tiny fraction of what athletes in other pro sports get, but despite decent attendance in many NLL arenas, the money just isn't there. A new franchise (Boston) was to have been added this year to the existing 14 teams. Let's hope the league doesn't collapse and will be back in 2009.

http://www.nll.com/article.php?id=3128

Shameless plug alert. I blogged about it.

As always, it's hard to know who's telling the truth about the financial state of the teams. But most players are being paid so little that it's hard to imagine that at least some owners aren't making money. The Philadelphia Wings claim to have lost $500,000 last year and say they haven't made money in the last 3 years, but their attendance has always been pretty good. Last year they averaged over 12,000 per game.

I posted this on the blog site as well, but for those he may not have heard the good news: http://www.nll.com/article.php?id=3132

Now the league is scrambling to put a schedule together - as some teams had already released their arena dates and talk is that expanison team Boston - who were to begin play this season may not have a team this season. And I think this quote from a Toronto Rock player sums up why a last minute deal was reached.
********
And a good thing for lacrosse, too, according to Chris Driscoll, a 16-season NLL veteran, the last five with the Toronto Rock. "I know we're 16 or 17 years in," he said, "but lacrosse is still in the growing stages. It's a delicate thing and, in my opinion, I don't think lacrosse would've come back (had the season been lost).
********

A 7-year deal. I wonder what the details are, considering some of the rhetoric from both sides. But good for them.

Lacrosse is actually a game I want to learn to play. Its too bad that the only teams around here are at private boarding-school high schools.

"Real men wear pink!"....That was the headline in the sports section of one of the local papers a couple days ago, a reference to the Calgary Roughnecks wearing pink jerseys for their home-opener on Saturday night, to show their support for breast cancer research. And they looked great in pink too! Unfortunately, they lost 13-12 in OT to the San Jose Stealth, after blowing an 8-2 lead early in the game. And unlike the NHL, there is no point awarded for an OT loss. The Roughnecks also narrowly lost their first game (Dec 29) to the Colorado Mammoth. But the closeness of the scores in both games so far still makes me confident they will be competitive again this year, especially since they acquired goaltender Steve Dietrich from Buffalo. Star player Tracy Keluskey wasn't able to play last night, so that may have been a factor.

I didn't realize the Arizona Sting has ceased operations, at least for this season, so now there are only five teams in the western division, and seven in the east. Boston was supposed to have been added as a new eastern team, but its entry has been delayed until next year.