Canas suspended for two years for testing positive for a diuretic. It occurs to me that if you're going to test positive for something, you're better off testing positive for a steroid than a masking agent, because the "I didn't know" defense doesn't work too well for a masking agent.

What do other people think of the number of Argentines getting caught for doping? It seems unlikely to be purely fluke, so two possibilities occur to me:

1. Argentina's player development system is dirty, like East German swimming in the '70's or Canadian track in the '80s.

2. Argentines are getting caught while others are escaping detection because players from the U.S. and Western Europe have access to designer steroids or new unrecognized masking agents. While no tennis players were involved in the BALCO scandal, not a lot tennis players live in the bay area. If they found Florida's equivalent to BALCO (I've got to believe the Miami Dolphins and Tampa Bay Buccaneers have similar sources), I wonder if the scandal might spread to tennis.

It's a shame that Canas felt the need for performance enhancing drugs, but you'll note that things are pretty bad in Argentina. I think that there is a lot of desperation there to be successful. I am not sure if I believe that this is systematic or not, but is is hard not to be very suspicious. It doesn't seem like tennis would be a sport that would have much of a problem with steroids. Brute strength isn't as much of a premium in tennis as is in many other sports. I guess some will look to gaining any advantage possible. I just hope Nalbandian can stay out of this mess.

Oh very scandal! My gosh

Have "a number of Argentines" been caught doping? Other than Canas, which Argentines have been caught?

~Adam

According to Peter Bodo of TennisWorld, "Guillermo Coria, Mariano Puerta, Juan Ignacio Chela -- and now Guillermo Canas have either been suspended or investigated for violating the ATP tour's drug policy." That's a lot of Argentines. That's a lot for any country, but especially from a smaller one like Argentina. Bodo goes on to say, "As you may know, the cases that actually get investigated or result in suspension is a very small percentage of the cases that begin with a positive drug test." Something is definitely amiss.

Two years is a long time, I don't think that suspension has been handed out lately. I watch PTI and Around the Horn today to see if there was any discussion of this topic, but there was none--maybe the news was released after taping.

Palmeiro gets 10 days, Canas gets two years. Which sport seems to be taking it more seriously?

It is an extraordinarily long sentence. I don't recall the others getting more than a year, but I think they all claimed they were administered without their knowledge--the flaxseed oil defense. That's why I mentioned that the fact that he tested positive for a masking agent may have been significant, since it implies you're trying to hide something.

Puddy, to be fair, Argentina is really larger than the U.S. as a presence on the ATP tour. After all, 5 of the world's top 12 players and 10 of the top 100 are from Argentina. Still, the fact that 3 of those top 5 have been suspended for doping doesn't look good.

I think the fact that so many of the worlds top players are from Argentina is quite striking. I could be wrong, but I don't remember a time when Argentina had so many top players. You gotta wonder about cause and effect. It's possible that there are so many top players due to performance enhancing drugs. Of course this is all speculation, and it's perfectly plausible that these players just got to the top by just working hard. However, the rash of suspensions and investigations revolving around the top Argentinean players does raise eyebrows.

How long was Gaby out after her positive drug test?

I will not take that bait. :mad:

That said, I was very sad when I saw the news come across the ticker about Canas's supsension. I think Canas may have been investigated before, although I wouldn't swear to that. Perhaps this is why his sentence is so severe?

Steroids have never been as abused in tennis because too much bulk can slow an athlete down and in tennis one needs to be agile and fleet of foot; however, as tennis becomes more and more physical - particulary in the men's game - I can see why the temptation has grown among current players to try steroids, especially smaller guys like Coria and Canas.

Whether or not the Argentines are more abusive of steroids or if its just that they don't have access to better quality methods of avoiding detection, I don't know, but it is a sad day for Argentine tennis. The Argentines seem to just have an "oh, well, if I get caught then I'll do my suspension and come back" kind of attitude. But you have to figure that a 2 year suspension is a killer to Canas's career.

Didn't Petr Korda test positive for steroids?

I was pretty sad to hear this news last night. I like Canas, always have. I beleive this is not his first suspension, which would explain the length of the suspension.

It's hard to know who you can like and not like anymore in sports. You want to like and admire a player, but then you find out something like this.

Yes, Korda did test positive, and at a late stage in his career. I can't recall if he didn't return, or if he was just never able to get back in form.

I don't think he ever came back to the pro tour. I feel like maybe he played a senior event or two. Guess Korda won his Grand Slam, tested positive for steroids, and headed for the hills with a scissor kick and a smile.

[ August 09, 2005, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: Gaga4Gaby ]

eek!

I don't remember the details but it seems that Coria was suspended for 6 months when he was first making noise on the tennis scene. And I believe Korda was suspended for 1 year (not too long after he won the Aussie Open) and then retired once the suspension was up.

Petr korda made a couple of tourney appearances. But really was not the player he was before the suspension. Age? Lack of match play? Effects of no onger doping? Who knows?

You guys are right. Argentina does seem to have a high number of drug related tennis players on the mens side. Puerta just recently came back afer being suspended for a long time. Chela.... Canas... These people are stupid.

I don't know if it's something approved and/or organized by the Argentine Tennis Federation. But obviously there seems to be a pervasive attitude among a lot of the argentines to think, "I'll take a few things on the sly and I'll never get caught"

It's sad really. I really like Canas.

I wonder if cultures outside of the US see steroids as less of a big deal?

Speaking of Gaby as Shore did earlier, I remember that Angel Gimenez used to be so obvious in giving her coaching signals from the sideline. And at the 1989 Lipton - when Gaby beat Sukova in the semis - reporters told Sukova about the coaching and she just shrugged it off. Said it was no big deal. And that seemed to be an attitude that alot of Europeans and South Americans shared. I realize that steroids are quite a bit more severe than signals, but I wonder if some kind of similar attitude isn't common?

would probably depend on the country and the specific community from that country.

for example.... Everyone knows that taking unnecessary drugs (especially steroids) is a bad thing and an illegal thing. I dare say that the idea of honesty and integrity are STRONGER in other countries than in the USA.

But also... many of the athletic communities of these countries (as opposed to the general culture)are very very permissive (and often push) performance enhancers. Just think back on the whole east german/Soviet bloc athletic machine. Would the tiny country of East germany have produced that many world class performances if not for the miracle of modern chemistry?

I think the next country to blow up with steroid scandal will be China. Just watch. With their wanting to take a pre-eminent position in all facets of world events and the Olympics coming up, they will be getting caught left and right.

I read the details of the Canas tribunal. He (as well as his coach/trainer) claim that he was given a perscription for a sore throat at the Acapulco tourney and that caused the positive result for the diuretic HCT. However, the tournament physicians say he was never treated, that they had medicine on site and wouldn't have given him a prescription, and that it wouldn't have contained HCT anyway. That makes it sound like Canas is guilty. However, he passed drug tests at a tourney just two weeks earlier as well as 3 months later, and the amounts of HCT in his test suggest the offending substance would have been injested in a short time span (day or two) prior to the test. So that makes me think it may not have been on purpose because HCT isn't a performance enhancer, but is used to mask/flush out drug use in the system--none of which was detected. Canas also had elevated levels of the steriod nadralone(sp?) a few years back, but below the legal maximum. Apparently it was an open and shut case for the tribunal members as Canas was found guilty by all 3 on the panel and given the standad 2 year suspension. (which Canas can appeal and have lessened)

Canas is the 4th Argentine to face drug penalties in the past few years. Here's a good article about it.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news?slug=reu-...uters&type=lgns
Unfortunately, he even resorted to the "innocently unaware" alibi by claiming that even herb tea contains diuretic substances. However, in the tribunal physicians pointed out that HCT is not a natural substance and would have to have been purposefully added.

What sucks is that there probably are athletes who unknowingly ingest something that causes a positive result, but so many people play the unknowing buffoon card that you immediately have a hard time taking the defense seriously. The sports would cannot possibly be that full of naive innocents.

To my mind, anyone who's been previously investigated would be much more careful about accidental ingestion, so I have a hard time buying this story from Canas.

It's tough if you accidentally take a banned substance, but I can't feel too sorry for those athletes. They know exactly the types of substances they should not be taking. I would think that they would be extra careful especially knowing the possible consequences. Of course every situation is different, but it is not fair to those who do follow the rules. I personally am a bit indifferent about all the drug scandals. If someone takes something that any of us can find in a drug store or GNC I'm not that offended, however if someone takes an illegal steroid that is certainly is egregious and should not be tolerated.

G4G, you are so cute.

Well, I like to think so. (That's what Suzanne Sugarbaker said to little Li Sing when she saw all of Suzanne's beauty crowns and said, "You must be the most beautiful woman in the whole world!")

I don't know what I did to deserve the compliment, but thank you very much.

See y'all tomorrow!

Not knowing makes you even cuter, babe. Just keep being yourself, and we'll keep enjoying it.

PTI is discussing the issue right now and Wilbon and guest host Bob Ryan both really like the punishment. And this segment came moments after interviewing Bud Selig about the lax policies in baseball.

G_TF, I came home just to watch PTI to see if they discussed this issue. I was very pleased to see it featured so prominently, but really, they should have brought it up with Selig and asked why baseball can't do similiarly. Funny, this punishment, because maybe it's against a player who doesn't really rank with me, makes me proud to be a tennis fan.

Me too. Tennis doesn't have a major problem with drug abuse and they never will because they actually take it very seriously. Baseball on the other hand, well Palmeiro 10 suspension says it all. I was happy to see the topic on PTI and I'm glad Wilbon and Ryan gave kudos to TPTB in tennis. Bravo ATP Tour!

I too watched PTI and saw them praise the ATP for their strict punishment. I like when they said it was a punishment "with teeth" that would make people think twice before ingesting illegal substances. Yay tennis!

tennis is able to speak out very forcefully on steroids in tennis cuz it's mostly a minor problem and their actions are symbolic more than anything.

MLB and NFL have a much bigger problem with steroids and therefore are more reluctant to take real action. It'lll be a while before MLB does something substantial against steroids.

But that'll still be a long time before the NFL does anything. We'll have pro wrestling ban steroids before the NFL gets serious about it.

brute strength, no... but endurance yes, especially for the (very lucrative) clay-court circuit in europe, and above all for the french open. i do wonder though, as other posters have pointed out, if it really is only the argentineans who are using the chems.