Newbie here. Hello!

I'm impressed by all the tennis talk here, lots of knowledgeable discussions.

Was wondering if anyone shared the pet peeves about tennis that I do.

ATP
-Remember how the Champions Race was supposed to make rankings easier to understand?? Yet both the ATP and Race rankings are in place. Really a minor peeve, but a peeve just the same.

-Season is too long, which hurts itself, and Davis Cup. Lends itself to injured and tired players.

WTA
-A ranking system that for the longest time rewarded quantity, and not quality. Look how long Hingis stayed at number one without winning a slam. Granted, she won 3 of the 4 slams in 1997 (bless that one slam wonder known as Iva Majoli!...sorry, I never could stand Hingis, she has her own paragraph below) and she won 3 Australians, but to hold on to the number one ranking for more than two years after that incredible year? Yes, the Williams sisters made that possible by not playing many tournaments, and allowing Hings to exploit that system, but I still believe it was a weakness in the system itself. And I realize this gripe can be used against Davenport (she's held on to number one for quite some time now, and hasn't won a slam since the Australian back in 2000) and for Clijsters and Mauresmo to a lesser extent...they held number one without even winning a slam, but didn't stay there too long.

-Season's too long, hurts itself and Fed Cup. Lends itself to injured and tired players.


Davis Cup
-I don't have much against its format per se, but the American's players views on it. With the likes of Jimmy Connors and John McEnroe in the 70's and 80's and the "Fab Four" in the 90's, shouldn't the US have owned the Davis Cup? Yes, McEnroe and Courier were true troopers for the US, but what about the others? I agree the long season hinders it, and the desires of some big egos wanting to end the year with a high ranking do too...but aren't these factors for ALL players from ALL countries? So many people would defend some of these guys with the length of season argument, and "saving it for the slams" argument, but to me that's just not enough when other countries with lower ranked guys continued to walk away with the cup. You mean to tell me the guys from the other countries weren't interested in the slams?

Fed Cup
-Similar to Davis Cup, the format doesn't bother me too much, wish the top players committed to it more often, but I feel the ladies have stepped up to the plate more than the gentleman.

In here, though I have to vent about the Billie Jean King/Jennifer Capriati fiasco. King blew it. Kicking someone off a team because they wanted to practice more has got to be one of the most ridiculous things in sports I've ever heard of. It was all about egos. Yes you listen to your coach, but your coach can't have such a fragile "because I said so" ego that it puts common sense out of the picture. Another thing that infuriated me were the other teammates' response to it. Shaugnessy saying "I'd like to ask her (Capriati) if it was really worth it." Seles sided with King too, it seemed like everyone blamed Capriati...well, Shaugnessy and Seles should have beaten those players from Austria, since they were both ranked higher. Capriati didn't lose those matches, they did.

(Just so everyone knows, I think Billie Jean King is one of the most admirable women in tennis, if not in all sports, for what she's done for the game, in all aspects, from playing, coaching, commentating, marketing, etc... I just believe in this case, as a coach, she was wrong)

Martina Hings
Since I could probably write a book about why I could never stand her, I'll just stick to some quotes/paraphrasings

-"She's half a man" (about Mauresmo)

-"Well, maybe when I retire" (when asked if she thought either of the Williams sisters would ever be number one. Funny they both made it to number one while she was still there...but alas, at the ripe old age of 22, she did retire )

-"People like how much he has done for golf at such a young age, but I've done even more for tennis, at an even younger age" (when asked about Tiger Woods)


Anything you'd like to vent about?

Henin! I just can't stand her!

I disagree about Hingis. I used to love those cocky comments. You need a character like that who can be a bit controversial. Look how cocky Federer is now. I remember Serena saying that no-one could beat her, she could only ever beat herself. Let these people speak with a bit of arrogance, its much more fun than the dull modest speak of the likes of Clijsters, Henman etc. My pet peeve at the moment will perhaps only be appreciated by any Brits using this site. I think the BBC and Sky should ban former British players from geeting a well paid job in the media after retiring, when at their peak, they reached something like 150 in the world rankings. How seriously can we take the dreadful Chris Bailey and Barry Cowan when they complain about poor play from someone in a Grand Slam semi or final when they achieved absoultely nothing. The BBC should ban this and then maybe the plaers might make more of an effort in their tennis careers knowing that they can't just walk into a 200k a year job after a couple of years.

That's an interesting comment!

Here in America the commentators all achieved something, more or less! Martina M., Jim Courier, Mary Joe Fernandez, Pam Shriver, Tracy Austin, Chris Evert, John McEnroe, although his brother didn't really set the rankings on fire and is just as annoying to hear as John is! I don't know what kind of career Cliff Drysdale had, though! Also, Brad Gilbert. He may have been in the Top 10 but I just absolutely can't stand him as a commentator!

The problem is, until Tim and Greg retire, no British player has had anything like a successful tennis career for over 20 years. That would give us space to have other older players come in and do a proper job. I know she is plaing so its' difficult but Martina Navratilova did some commentating for the BBC and it is so refreshing to hear an intelligent voice. Was there one called Barbara Potter in US at one time - very intelligent woman if I've got the name right.

MikeT, I understand the need to have something to talk about for the sport (not necessarily controversy) but no matter how big that need is, I don't think homophobic remarks are ever appropriate. If there were an openly gay male tennis player (unfortunately at this time there isn't) and some other male tennis player made a comment like "he belongs in the WTA" or "he's half a woman," I feel that would be just as bad, and uncalled for. Ivanisovic saying it about an umpire, and not even about another player, didn't help the sport in any way.

I don't think arrogance is necessary to make a sport interesting. Pete Sampras, Steffi Graff, Bjorn Borg and Chris Evert were great for the sport because of their skills, not because of their abilities to throw tanrtrums, to trash-talk, to pose for the camera, nor to boast.

Wow, I must sound like an old man, but that's how I feel. I still like the strong, silent type male tennis player. (well, any male for that matter ) And the quiet, humble female tennis player. I know the long-flowing hair of curvey Anna Kournikova and the profanity-laced explosions of John McEnroe may have brought a few more people to tennis, and that's never a bad thing, it just shouldn't be remotely near the main focus. Gimmicks like that don't last, and actually can be detrimental as one's career wanes, but great playing will always speak the loudest and last the longest in history.

As far as British players as commentators? Sue Barker was ranked in the top 10 at points in her career, does she do any commentating? John Lloyd had some success, too, does he do any work like that?

I do accept those points and certainly homophobic remarks are unquestionably out of order. I once met a guy who played on the tour some years ago - only a lowly ranked player but he said that it would be impossible for a guy to come out on the mens' tour. Not so much in terms of press reaction, which probably would be ok, but in terms of treatment of the other players who would give such a hard time - fairly macho, homphonic group apparently. Young guys with too much money too soon, always the same.
Sue Barker is now the main anchorwoman for BBC sport - very good she is too. John Lloyd does a lot of commentating so he is still around.

I wasn't a big fan of Hingis either but she was a lot of fun to watch. She had instincts, knew who she played when and where and how much she won by. Incidentally, never remembered the score when she lost.

The point about the English commentators - ditto.

Season is way too long!

I agree w/quality over quantity, consistency should count for something.

The mens tour is exciting and Roger Dodger is getting a bit cocky which I think is great.

My rant: Down with the McEnroe brothers!

John McEnroe is too old to be wearing Nadal's clamdiggers.

If Patrick McEnroe continues to kiss American players' asses while commentating for ESPN, I'm going to puke. All the underdog Americans have a chance, no matter who they're playing; Andy Roddick is the golden boy; blah blah blah. I used to like Patrick, but once he became Davis Cup captain, it all went downhill.

Thank God for Pam Shriver.

Can't stand it when commentators say a player leads 4-3 when they are actually on serve. Cliff Drysdale are you reading this?

Interesting discussion re: does cocky player attitude add spice to the game. I was reading a similar discussion on the BBC Sports message boards yesterday along the same lines. Specifically, someone started a thread with Why does everyone dislike Lleyton Hewitt? Of course all the dirt came out in the numerous responses. Some made reference to the allegedly racist remark made during a match with Blake back in 2001, others talked about how he dumped the well-liked Kim Clijsters and was engaged to someone else weeks later, then there's the shouted comments on the court (Come ooooooon!), are they positive self-reinforcement or gamesmanship in an attempt to rattle opponents, is it just a general British dislike for Australians, etc., etc.

I think a player's attitude can help you to like or dislike the player. I suppose you could argue that we should want the player with the better playing skills to win but realistically we want the player that appeals to us to win. Arrogance, cockiness if you prefer, will appeal to some people, I suppose, but it really doesn't appeal to me. I'd much rather see someone I can like win. Arguably, either way the bad behavior adds to one's enjoyment of the game. You're either rooting for a player you like or your rooting against one you dislike.

[ June 29, 2005, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: Torgauer ]

And players who kiss the four corners of the court after a second round match, or go to the center and aggrandize themselves like they had just won the whole thing. Get off the ocurt already. I tend to think Agassi started all that nonsense and now all the big egos do it. I like a gentle nod to the crowd and a raise racket as thank you.

I do like the Masters Series signing the camera lens.

It's funny when you read other people's pet peeves. I have no problem with someone saying a player leads 4-3, because - on serve or up a break - 4 is more than 3. hee hee.

But I also don't like all the grand bows and thanks you after each and every match. I agree that was all started by Andre.

And Cliff Drysdale is going crazy. He's always saying the wrong thing and no one ever corrects him. I was watching some match about a year ago and the two players were in a long rally - it had to have been 10 or 11 strokes into the point - and then you just hear Cliff whisper "BREAK POINT!" like a madman. Thanks, Cliff. Way to be there. But, in the plus column, Cliffy loves Gaby Sabatini.

The whole "leads 4-3" thing tends to bother me most when it's my player who is holding the three.

And I HATE HATE HATE matches replayed on videotape, or whatever the technology is that's seems to skip every other frame or bit. very broken movement and very distracting to watch, I've seen it a bit on NBC during this Wimbledon.

[ June 29, 2005, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: shore ]

Oh, the whole bow/courtsey/blow kisses/riverdance/whatever ... I agree, it's absolutely ridiculous, especially when it's after a first round match.

I long for the days of people just throwing their arms in the air after winning (the entire tournament), smiling, and going to the net to shake their opponent's hand.

What kind of silly victory routine will be next, a player doing the Macarena??

Dick Enberg is the one loosing his mind....says all kinds of things that are nowhere near correct. He's a nice enough guy, but time to retire.

How about Serena's little belly....yikes you're a professional athlete!

Does Patrick McEnroe have a crush on Andy Roddick? Not that there is ANYTHING wrong with that!

Last one....guys shaving anything but their face. Come on, one of the great things about tennis is the short pants, pulling up shirt to wipe your face etc.

Just saw a picture of Jana Novotna accepting her plaque for induction into the International Tennis Hall of Fame! Ugh!!! I don't care that she's in it because of doubles, I still don't, won't and can't comprehend why she is being inducted this year, after having retired in 1999 and GABRIELA SABATINI, who retired in 1996, still isn't in there ahead of her!!! She had just as many single slams, same amount of finals, more tournament titles in singles and had an awesome doubles record as well and a Wimbledon Doubles Title to boot!

I don't know who's choosing these people, but, come on! Yannick Noah had one slam and I don't remember him racking up as many singles or doubles titles as Gaby did, either!

At this rate, Maria Sharapova will be in there before Gaby! Sigh!!!

And MaryJo Fernandez!

I Heart Playerten! :cool:

I don't care how highly ranked a commentator was as a player, what difference does that make to their commentating ability. Chris is lousy and she was #1 for forever. Carillo is the best and she was not even in the top 100 I don't think. She did win a mixed doubles title, but who cares. Sue Barker is great in the UK. You don't have to be able to hit the shot to know how it is supposed to be hit. I mean, I think we can all do that to one extent or another.

As to Hingis' comments, she was a young girl for goodness sake. I'm sure she's realized she was an idiot. She's apologized so many times for the mauresmo comment it's not even funny. I'd cut her a break on pre-18-year-old comments.

I will go along with the nauseating kiss/dance/prance idiocy we see out there, most from the Williams sisters. It's so undignified and disingenuous to boot. I think Chris and Martina in their day were the role models for all the follow on how to react and most especially how to give a victory speech. First thing out of their mouth every time was how great their opponent player or what a good person they were or whatever. Sue Barker had to tell Serena to compliment Lindsay and she still didn't want to. Crass!

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Chris Evert, Tracey Austin, Steffi Graff and Monica Seles won slams as teenagers at age 18 or younger and never made such homophobic, arrogant, and assenine comments. The age excuse doesn't cut it for me.

As far as her Mauresmo comments? I never heard or read an apology, not that one doesn't exist. I remember her denying it in the press, even when a recorded playback was provided.

[ July 11, 2005, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: Tennis Guy ]

Yeah, I don't think Hingis apologized either. Lindsay's was very vocal with an apology - and to this day is very kind about her remarks on Mauresmo, both personally and professionally - but I think Martina sorta half-ass said she was misinterpreted too, trying to piggy back on Lindsay's apology, but that was all.

That said, it is a good point to note that she was very young at the time. She's 24 now, so perhaps it is time to let that stuff go. Although I don't know how much Martina's grown up - she still seems as spoiled as ever - but I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

And I still would like to see her really work hard and make a comeback attempt. Women's tennis misses her game, if not her mouth.

The U.S. Open finale is on the 4th anniversary of 9/11. I have conflicted feelings about this. I wish they would move everything up a day to avoid what could turn into the 9/11 controversy. But, then, again, I'm sure one of those crappy NY baseball teams has played ball on previous 9/11s since 2001.

New hall of fame nominees

Rafter won 2 US and got to the Wimbledon finals - he's in. Gaby? Sorry, but I don't think so. Stich? Definitely not.

Gator, you'd better get ready because when "GAGA4GABY" sees what you wrote, he's gonna let you have it!!

I DEFINITELY think Gaby deserves to be in, based on all-around play, doubles and singles titles and contribution to the game-she brought so many fans to the stadiums and was truly a great ambassador of the game and still is! Besides, Novotna got in last year on one Slam title, yeah more Doubles titles but retired way later and, as far as I'm concerned, did nothing to promote the game of tennis-except for showing people that tennis players can choke and cry!

[ September 02, 2005, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: playerten73 ]

Bring it on!

I'm no Novotna lover, but she did contribute the button-every-button-on-your-shirt look. And you're right, she did patent the up-4-to-1-in-the-third-set-and-blow-it-in-the-Wimbledon-finals trick.

With repect to Gaby, she had one U.S. title, one Wimbledon doubles title (riding Graf's back), and what else? I guess the two Virginia Slims Championships deserve serious consideration, but IMHO a player is measured on the number of slams he/she wins. Although I suppose if they'll let Noah and his one French in to Newport, then I guess (begrudgingly) Gaby belongs, too. Hell, while we're at it, I guess Stich belongs with his one Wimbledon singles and one Wimbledon doubles (riding Mac's back).

How about Johan Kriek? If all these one-hit-wonders are getting in, why isn't Kriek there? At least he had two slams. Granted, it was the Australian Open when the other players were taking December/January off, but his name is still on that trophy twice.

Don't get me wrong. I think Gaby had a beautiful game (best down-the-line backhand I've ever seen), and I loved hating Graf back in those days (I grew to love her), and Gaby had several awesome wins against Graf for a good stretch, but I don't think Gaby won enough in the slams to deserve Newport.

I'll give you Gaby if you give me Sergi Bruguera (who won two slams). And he was hot.

I won't give you Sergi because I want him!:-) He could very well get in, just like Thomas Muster will probably make it for all his claycourt prowess!

I'd nix Stich, though! His attitude was the worst ever and he was such a crybaby!

I don't know, the only thing Novotna really had over Gabby was the number of doubles matches and titles. In almost every other stat, Gabby should have made the hall of fame before Novotna.


Sabatini

WTA Tour singles titles 27
WTA Tour doubles titles 14
Win Loss Record - Singles - (632-189, 334.4 ratio)
Win Loss Record - Doubles - (252-96, 262.5 ratio)
Grand Slams 1
632 match wins
Head to head with Novotna (10-3, 3.33 ratio)
Head to head with other top players of the time:
Sabatini vs Evert (3-6, .5 ratio)
Sabatini vs Navritilova (6-15, .4 ratio)
Sabatini vs Graf (11-29, .38 ratio)
Sabatini vs Seles (3-11, .27 ratio)
Sabatini vs Hingis (1-1, 1 ratio)
--
24-62 vs all these players (38.7 ratio)

At the slams, quarter finals or better:

10 QF's
15 SF's
2 F's
1 W
----
28 matches at QF or better
18 matches at SF or better


Novotna

WTA Tour singles titles 24
WTA Tour doubles titles 76
Win Loss Record - Singles - (571-225, 253.8 ratio)
Win Loss Record - Doubles - (697-153, 455.6 ratio)
Grand Slams 1
Head to head with Sabatini (3-10, .3 ratio)
571 career singles wins
Head to head with other top players of the time:
Novotna vs Evert (0-3, 0 ratio)
Novotna vs Navritilova (1-6, .17 ratio)
Novotna vs Graf (4-29, .14 ratio)
Novotna vs Seles (4-4, 1 ratio)
Novotna vs Hingis (3-9, .33 ratio)
----
12-51 vs all these players (23.5 ratio)

At the slams, quarter finals or better:

13 QF's
5 SF's
3 F's
1 W
----
22 matches at QF or better
9 matches at SF or better

Wow, I'm impressed! Where did you get those stats?

Also, Gaby , with her 11 wins over Steffi, had the most wins of anyone ever over her! Most players were lucky to beat her 2 or 3 times, so Gaby had her way with Steffi, arguably, the best ever, from around 1990-92, with that one terrible Wimbledon loss, that stands out! Arrggh! Still, Gaby didn't choke her Wimby final away-Steffi stepped it up and took advantage of her serve and that damn netcord at 30-all! Arrggh again!

[ September 03, 2005, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: playerten73 ]

Don't be impressed, I got most of that stuff at http://www.wtatour.com.